Instead, maybe there could be a temporary stat reduction, similar to the 'weakened' status that comes with being raised in FFXI, but not limited to only reducing the player's HP and MP, but all stats by a certain factor, and this factor could increase as the player dies more and more within a given time (possibly repeatedly griefing others, dying, then griefing again).
Guild Wars too has such a system. After you resurrect, a certain percentage is deducted from your overall stats. If you die again then the penalty gets bigger. Killing something or waiting for time to pass, or entering a town reduces that penalty again. But that system also works the other way around, giving boni to individuals and groups who do very well. Overall the system works well for GW. To die has a bad side effect, yet it does not undo your past achievments.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
If any of you played Star Wars Galaxies when it was first released you might remember the corpse runs When you died and cloned at a cloner, all your items would stay on your corpse and you would have to run back to your corpse to get everything back again. You could consent friends to be able to loot your corpse so if they were near your corpse they would bring everything back. Lots of naked people running around during those times lol.
They then changed it (I forget why) so that when you died you didn't have to go back to your corpse, but if you haven't cloned before hand and you died you will get 110 wounds to your health bar (and back then your action and mind) - ie you have 110 less hitpoints. To heal these wounds, you need to find a Doctor (or back then a novice Medic at least). If you don't and you die again you will lose another 110 wounds right down until you have 1 health. You can prevent wounds though by paying 1000 credits to store your clone data at a nearby cloning facility so when you die you come out like new again Along with wounds alot of yours items will suffer decay of 5% each time you clone unless you brought insurance on your items (the cost varies depending on what you have but I haven't payed more the 6k credits) and then it only decays 1%. If you die in PvP you lose some PvP rating while you're oponent will gain some PvP rating.
Jedi have it a little different. Back before pub 9 (around this time last year) if a Jedi died it was perma-death. I'm not completely sure if they could restart their Jedi or if they could start their Jedi all over again from the start. As you can imagine, Jedi were very rarely ever seen for fear of losing all their hard work. After pub 9 it changed. Rather then perma death, Jedi would suffer XP loss depening on how they died. For instance if they died to a Bounty Hunter they'd lose 250,000XP. They didn't lose any skill boxes, the deduction was taken from the XP pool that is used to move up the next box (those that have played SWG before should know what I'm talking about when i use those terms ). So if they had at the time 5000XP towards their next box and died to a BH, they'd now have -245,000XP and would have to work off the negative value and then the XP needed for the next box. Alot of work. XP loss was in effect for every kind of death until the Combat Upgrade where XP loss only remains for BH deaths - still the 250,000XP. This can be quite damaging for the Jedi players (especially those that don't have as much time to get good and to work off the negative value), I've heard of some that have gotten down to -10 million XP
In the document I consider much to be my "MMORPG Bible", it talks about how perma-death and 'extra lives' can work very well. Every character starts out with five lives, die once, and they are down to four. Waiting a given amount of time, whether online or off-, the lives will regenerate, but never beyond five. However, players can gain 'lives' beyond the maximum of five, by doing things such as extremely challenging quests/missions, or donating to the church (both holy and paganistic). After the character depletes all its lives, it is gone from the server.
Originally posted by dekron I love PvP, but hate the fact of losing xp, etc. The only penalty I think should be implemented is loss of items from your corpse being looted. It worked fine in UO.
Somehow it didnt work fine at all. They made TRam, so alot of people did not like being looted.
That is a common misconception. They made Tram because EQ was stealing their playerbase. They modelled Tram after EQ because they thought that is what gamer's wanted, due to EQ's success. They took the greatest game ever made, in mine and many many other's opinion, and turned it into the pile of shit it is today.
Some people enjoy Death Penaltys because it makes the game a challenge. Like WoW what's is biggest deal of hitting 50? Anyone and Everyone can do it, you never loose xp! it's not that exciting to hit 50 (max lvl). In other games like DAoC, L2, etc. there are death penaltys and when you finally reach that end level then you know you have accomplished something amazing and touch. The reason for DP is to give yourself more pride hitting that last lvl.
Comments
Guild Wars too has such a system. After you resurrect, a certain percentage is deducted from your overall stats. If you die again then the penalty gets bigger. Killing something or waiting for time to pass, or entering a town reduces that penalty again. But that system also works the other way around, giving boni to individuals and groups who do very well. Overall the system works well for GW. To die has a bad side effect, yet it does not undo your past achievments.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
If any of you played Star Wars Galaxies when it was first released you might remember the corpse runs
When you died and cloned at a cloner, all your items would stay on your corpse and you would have to run back to your corpse to get everything back again. You could consent friends to be able to loot your corpse so if they were near your corpse they would bring everything back. Lots of naked people running around during those times lol.
They then changed it (I forget why) so that when you died you didn't have to go back to your corpse, but if you haven't cloned before hand and you died you will get 110 wounds to your health bar (and back then your action and mind) - ie you have 110 less hitpoints. To heal these wounds, you need to find a Doctor (or back then a novice Medic at least). If you don't and you die again you will lose another 110 wounds right down until you have 1 health. You can prevent wounds though by paying 1000 credits to store your clone data at a nearby cloning facility so when you die you come out like new again
Along with wounds alot of yours items will suffer decay of 5% each time you clone unless you brought insurance on your items (the cost varies depending on what you have but I haven't payed more the 6k credits) and then it only decays 1%. If you die in PvP you lose some PvP rating while you're oponent will gain some PvP rating.
Jedi have it a little different. Back before pub 9 (around this time last year) if a Jedi died it was perma-death. I'm not completely sure if they could restart their Jedi or if they could start their Jedi all over again from the start. As you can imagine, Jedi were very rarely ever seen for fear of losing all their hard work. After pub 9 it changed. Rather then perma death, Jedi would suffer XP loss depening on how they died. For instance if they died to a Bounty Hunter they'd lose 250,000XP. They didn't lose any skill boxes, the deduction was taken from the XP pool that is used to move up the next box (those that have played SWG before should know what I'm talking about when i use those terms
). So if they had at the time 5000XP towards their next box and died to a BH, they'd now have -245,000XP and would have to work off the negative value and then the XP needed for the next box. Alot of work. XP loss was in effect for every kind of death until the Combat Upgrade where XP loss only remains for BH deaths - still the 250,000XP. This can be quite damaging for the Jedi players (especially those that don't have as much time to get good and to work off the negative value), I've heard of some that have gotten down to -10 million XP 
In the document I consider much to be my "MMORPG Bible", it talks about how perma-death and 'extra lives' can work very well.
Every character starts out with five lives, die once, and they are down to four. Waiting a given amount of time, whether online or off-, the lives will regenerate, but never beyond five. However, players can gain 'lives' beyond the maximum of five, by doing things such as extremely challenging quests/missions, or donating to the church (both holy and paganistic). After the character depletes all its lives, it is gone from the server.
Project Delta
That is a common misconception. They made Tram because EQ was stealing their playerbase. They modelled Tram after EQ because they thought that is what gamer's wanted, due to EQ's success. They took the greatest game ever made, in mine and many many other's opinion, and turned it into the pile of shit it is today.