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Extremely Amusing - Fans of the Combat System
Dysphorick
Member Posts: 9
- I don't hate or love GW2, so I am neither a troll or fanboy. I have however, been waiting for GW2 since it was announced.
The combat system can be said to be something new and a break from the stale tab targetting 12345 etc. Ultimately however, that's not true.
I find it amusing especially when someone who has utterly no clue whatsoever as to what real skill is posts something like this
Originally posted by chrysesI like reading people's opinions but you lost me when you said combat is 'push tab' and hit. If you do that and not much else you die fast, a lot.
The combat has some of the best fluid motion, real time feel to it. I get a buzz winning a fight I really shouldn't win, based on my skill use, dodging and terrain use.
If you don't like it that's cool but I love the game because its not 'stand here and push tab and skillbar'
Skill in games can be classified within 3 main genres, Action/RPG, FPS and RTS:
- Reaction (All 3)
- Precision via mouse aiming and timing (FPS)
- Micromanagement (RTS or healers in the case of MMORPG raiding)
- Strategy (Planning PvP builds, planning choke points and flank positions in FPS etc. All 3)
If you want to talk about real skill in an action oriented play (in the theme of RPG), check out Dark Souls. I'm sure many have heard of it, that is real difficulty and skill.
PvE content from 1-80 is zerg fest, period. Anything else is just mindlessly running around an object or the y axis, i.e kiting. Terrain my @ss. Real terrain usage is the likes of DotA with line of sight (fog of war), flanking, drop attacks in Dark Souls etc. TERA is an MMORPG that has some elements of aiming and terrain there. NOT GW2.
Ultimately this game is good, but nothing fantastic as some people have been praising to the high heavens of skill based combat. Which is the point of this post. There's nothing 'revolutionary' about it nor skill based.
Combat is nothing fantastic, neither is there real skill. Stupid scrubby fanboys.
EDIT: By scrubby meaning you need to learn the definition of real skill and not follow blindly. If your opinion is that this game has actual skill such as body coordination in tightrope walking, Starcraft 2 micromanagement and intellectual strategy. Prove it.
Comments
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I won't say anymore.
Let me correct that for you:
PvE content from 1-80 can feel like a zerg fest if you choose to follow the zerg.
You're statement is about your choice and not a fact.
Anyone who directly contradicts themselves whilst attempting to deliberately mislead readers as to their intentions is going to struggle to be taken seriously wouldn't you think?
Yes, Dark Souls is harder.
Avoid the zergs, don't avoid the more difficult events and you'll find the rest of your rant is wrong. Yes, you can get to 80 doing easy crap all the way, doesn't mean you have to. Game is as difficult as you want it to be.
I like it. It's fun and there is depth to keep me entertained. When comparing to your usual MMO combat it's heads and shoulders above others. TERA is there too, but the game did not work for me in any other way.
Of course there are games there that require more 'skill' or whatever. But in MMO genre I've yet to find as fun and engaging combat system as GW2.
Should I even bother tagging this post with big IT'S MY OPINION - tag?
My Guild Wars 2 blog. Read it. The bestestest and most TRUTHEST BLOG EVER!!
Darkfall has better combat. I want to see MMORPGs use 1st/3rd person action/FPS combat systems. However, GW2 is better than nearly every tab target game i've played due to skill synergy, the dodge mechanic, and positioning being important due to being able to manually dodging some projectiles and AoE attacks.
Of course, you won't see this in PvE until endgame because, lets face it, AI is stupid.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
thanks captain obvious. everyone and their mother knows if you follow the zerg from 1-80 you will have little trouble with the game because there is always someone their to save your sucky ass. if you play the sPvP, explorable dungeons, or even try to fight elite mobs/more mobs/higher lvl mobs then it will obviously be harder and you will have to utilize the high combat skillcap the game has to offer.
ive played tera as well as darksouls.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Actually the game allows for mouse targetting, just never target an NPC, and you will use the skill in a straight line in front of you. This allows for much more freedom in gameplay.. Most of the time i be uing this, except in some situations i be using the old tab target/point and click targetting. Which adds an extra decision to my combat.
The game however is great on the real time tactical dessigne making in combat. Using other players combo fields, crowd controll and support skills to your parties advantage. This however shows mostly in the non zerg combat situations which are more then enough evailable.
Why dont you try a dungeon for a change, to find out how the PvE combat really shines.
All 4 these points are available and needed in GW2, just play a ranger and micro manage your pet. or a buffing build and micro manage your boons on your party members. Or a support build and with heals and skills to prevent damage. Its all there.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Yeah... sure... zerg is a bit easy at times, but, one thing so many seem to completely ignore is... the way this game was handled, players are better. We revive each other, we throw out public heals, buffs, whatever else. This game has fostered a way to build your skill and gain true mastery (working towards it at least) of your class. Even in zergs, if you are auto attacking, your likely to die, proving your useless. Want more close difficulty? play explorables, they are exactly what you are looking for.
On the Dark Souls comment, I am a huge fan of that game. I can say without a doubt that from all my battles with "hard" difficulties over the years it was the most well crafted difficulty ever. Guild Wars 2 actually personifies many of the charactertistics that Dark Souls did. Given, there is some work that needs to be done such as less spiky damage and some camera issues. I had become so efficient in Dark Souls that on my 3rd run through I beat it in
hours and without dying. GW2 is by far, and I say this with having played well over 100 mmropgs including nearly every major one, the most truly well tuned skill needed MMORPG there is. It rewards skill by not placing a focus on gear and its just all the more fun for it.
I thought we were posting random crap?
Did you won many 3 rounds tournaments? Any screeshots of explorable dungeons completed?
Are you saying dodging isn't a timing skill?
Are you saying character and team builds make no difference in GW2?
Are you saying aiming an AoE ground target skill on the move requires nothing?
Oh wait I joined May 2012.
Ah, ok, that means you can ignore my questions.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I totally agree, in fact even the games you mentioned like DotA and Dark Souls are just shallow, far from skill based and are designed for 6 year olds. Real skills is where you carefully plan and strategize hundreds of variables and facets like in EUIII or CKII.
(Who the heck compare skills cross genre, do you say marathon is more skillful than tennis?)
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Agreed. And combat is really easy as long as you just follows everyone else and let them do all the work. As soon as you get fewer players or are one of the few ones standing it is all about timing the right skill at the right moment from the right place, that will avoiding getting hit.
I been in the postion that out of 20 people only me and maybe one or 2 people have been up a lot of times (and just me a few), we usually take down the boss anyways but a lot of unskilled people are following others around. That will only get you so far and either you shape up or you will be avoiding all dungeons and exploration in the game.
Some people should try and solo a boss event. If that doesn't take skill than I don't know what does.
Ah, so your point is GW2 isn't SC2 or Dota 2.
Or maybe lets compare it to one of the most (recent) challenging games?
I thought GW2 was a MMORPG. Guess having to be compared to the suchs of Dota 2, SC2 and Darksouls to bash it as no skill, isn't that bad.
But since you like gimp play, try to down a champion mob on your own,preferably in starter gear.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Gear-based PvP = standard MMO combat, whoever has the +10 sword of pvp-leetness wins.
Skill-based PvP = your gear is not the deciding factor, instead it's about "you and your understanding of your class".
GW2 therefore has 'skill-based PvP' (you would struggle to find PvP players that disagree with this point - some may not like it, some may feel the game is unbalanced, or even that it lacks skill, but that's how the terms are used).
"PvE content from 1-80 is zerg fest, period."
It's a problem with gw2 scaling. If you have 3 people in an area, you spawn 3 mobs. If you have 30 people in an area, you spawn 30 mobs.
It's the best implementation I've seen, but it's not right. The game should be looking to convert those 30 mobs into a boss and support waves... hopefully this can be tweaked over time.
[if you find yourself in a DE with 2 other people, it certainly does not feel zergy]
"Real terrain usage is the likes of DotA with line of sight (fog of war), flanking, drop attacks in Dark Souls etc."There's a reason why games with relatively small, sculpted maps and 1-10 players are more twitchy/terrain intensive than a game with large, ?500? player maps.
---
"By scrubby meaning you need to learn the definition of real skill and not follow blindly. If your opinion is that this game has actual skill such as body coordination in tightrope walking, Starcraft 2 micromanagement and intellectual strategy. Prove it."
I have no idea what you mean by 'real skill', as your definition lacks clarity.
Anyway:
- an experienced PvP player in class A would beat an inexperienced PvP player in the same class.
The only external factor is lag/cpu. For online-gaming purposes, that is "skill".
Vesavius, logical reasoning and good manners are scarce goods- please dont waste yours on the OP. Leave him to his hamburgers.
OP i think you speak from a pve point of view, your opinion is normal for someone that do pve mainly because mobs can't use the level of tactics players do, but in pvp you are simply wrong, there is no argue how much you are wrong in pvp, and this is where the combat is so different from usual mmo, there is no way you can still do your "push" or whatever you call them and play well in pvp, you can just be somewhat good, but not good if you just spam.
Also it's pretty hard to play smart with mobs because they are a bunch of types, and it's pretty hard to recall their moves, you spot some easy ones like ettins, but generally they are tons of mobs type with each their own moves and you just can't play well (especially that early on), but in pvp you only have few class and this make it a lot easier to play "strategically". Also there is no arguing in my mind that combat is just way better in GW2 than it is in other tab targeting and rotations type of games, at last a company that managed to do a good mix of fps/mmo combat imo, maybe some don't like it personally but i do.
Also 'zerg' is so much negative in your mouth it's pretty obvious, this mmo have integrated smoothly group play in their pve and world but you have people like you full of of negativeness throwing the "zerg" insult when in fact it's very much positive in the game, but i guess it all depend on your point of view. Maybe people were in fact loving their false mmo for solo gamers, and they don't want to play that much in group, i mean it's so zergy after all isn't it? Personally i enjoy playing with group of people i just see in the corner of my screen and i want to join them, i have fun with them, even if it turn bad i usually have good time, some events are pretty harsh, i don't even understand what the OP find negative honestly, apart maybe if you got stuck in the first 20 level.
Considering I've had to put it in a morning "guided tour" through the Orr zones for the guild as some peeps found it frustrating and difficult to gather/explore etc on their own I feel like saying that thought it might not be hard or require "skill" it still offers more of a challenge than most mmo open world pve.
Again, if you follow the zerg then.. that's what you're doing. Personally I turn off map chat and ignore the whole "Any Events?" crowd and find my own. It takes much more than "blowing your cooldowns" or any such nonsense when in a small group in some of those chains.
Taking the zerg factor aside. The actual combat system is pretty good for a tab target themepark game, at least it tries to add in dodging and positional sense as well as working in a synergy factor. I prefer the twitch aiming of Darkfall but GW2's combat mechanics are interesting enough in terms of group interplay.
For me the real skill/potential of the specific combat system of the game comes from smaller group pvp combos and stacks, with players working in sync, rotating ability lines in tandem with each other in order to maximise output. Ofc that only really happens in experienced premade groups.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
By zerg the op means apparently he can crush the mobs without need to think of special strategies to defeat them.
What u mean exactly its his choise to crash it? xD Doesnt make any sense.