1. Warriors are dead squishy when DPS specced. They can be beaten by all classes 1 v 1 it doesn't take 4 in anyone's imagination, even when tank specced they have nothing on the Guardian for survivability. Generally the ones in sPvP spec for Frenzy and 100 blades, use your CC breaker or dodge when they do their Bulls Rush/Bolas + 100 blades and they're gubbed, they also take 50% extra damage while under the Frenzy buff so capitalize on that. Granted they can blind side you or catch you without a CC breaker up in sPvP due to it being a bit zergy with 8v8 but they are kinda crappy in 5v5 tournaments.
2. Necros are fine IMO although you'll find most who play them saying they're weak. You have damage avoidance skills as an Ele and most Necros are Staff+another weapon set, use one of your skills that stop damage when they start laying down their marks from their staff skills, they go on cooldown and they switch to their other weapon set which in general are lacklustre for them and they have to wait 10 seconds before they can switch back and start laying marks down again. Line of sight their elite Lich Form skill as it's damage comes from spamming #1 which is ranged.
3. Agreed, they need a boost in damage across many of their skills and bug fixing in others.
I think I must be seeing a lot of tanky specced warriors then. I don't know whether they're op on the dps or if its the fact that they have you lying flat on your back for most of the fight.
Funny enough, I started off playing a guardian and got bored rapidly, far too much of an easymode and switched over to the elementalist. I've been enjoying this class a whole lot more (even if surprisingly underpowered) as there's a lot more skill to be learned to use one well. Wearing out your fingers swapping attunements, bouncing about and chainging combos sensibly they can still do some pretty nasty things whilst looking bloody amazing. I also recently found that survivability increases a lot by maxing out on air attunement with some points in earth. This is mainly due to the speed boost and staff knockback on a shortish cd. Then when getting focus fired, swap out to earth shield and cc chasing buggers with rubble.
Originally posted by Master10K The Haste + Heartseeker spam the Thieves could do was quite ridiculous and I'm glad it got nerfed. However the cheesiest Thief build I've could across in the Sword/Pistol Thief; whereby they can teleport to you and do a Haste + 2x Pistol Whip combo. Pistol Whip stuns and the Haste allows them to hit you with the entire combo whilst stunned. Depending on how you are specced, you can be be dead within a double stun-lock.
and u can also be dead by a GS warrior with 3 skills,stun-third skillbar-f1 rage att.
18k hp gone in 3 hit if thats not OP then dunno what it is anymore
Originally posted by wowfan1996 Originally posted by ShimpoGenmulol they nerf thieves and not warriors or guardians ?fail
Actually they slightly buffed guardians.
I know which profession I'm going to level up next then! Going to eventually level up most of the professions to 80. So when nerfs and buffs come by, it's just a matter of playing another character during FOTM season.
Though still doesn't stop me looking at the buffs and nerfs objectively. Heard a few people complaining about heartseeker in WvW mapchat. Though tried it myself and fought against other thieves that spammed it. Wasn't impressed. It was really counter productive to spam it.
All the thief builds I've red say to use it sparingly and more as a gap closer than an actual attack.
Not surprised in the slightest about this change, I expect there will probably be ongoing changes to all classes over the coming weeks and months.
Btw the old "a good x doesn't spam x ability" line is never a valid counter to a case put forward with regards to OP abilities. A "good thief" may never spam heartseeker, but if there are tons of "not good" players rolling thieves and spamming the crap out of it in every scenario to good effect, then there is an issue.
Tbh for me, this is indicative of the problem with sPvP/e-sports/arenas outside of FPS games or games where everyone just jumps into the instance with exactly the same (or near enough) abilities.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I know which profession I'm going to level up next then! Going to eventually level up most of the professions to 80. So when nerfs and buffs come by, it's just a matter of playing another character during FOTM season. Though still doesn't stop me looking at the buffs and nerfs objectively. Heard a few people complaining about heartseeker in WvW mapchat. Though tried it myself and fought against other thieves that spammed it. Wasn't impressed. It was really counter productive to spam it. All the thief builds I've red say to use it sparingly and more as a gap closer than an actual attack.
Spamming the same skill will get you killed in any case.
But yeah, we mainly use it to jump to an opponent, still, the burst damage was a nice bonus...
Cant say I will lie awake sleepless because of this nerf though (but OPs comment about nerfing speed is another matter, that one would really ***** me off.
I think I must be seeing a lot of tanky specced warriors then. I don't know whether they're op on the dps or if its the fact that they have you lying flat on your back for most of the fight.
Funny enough, I started off playing a guardian and got bored rapidly, far too much of an easymode and switched over to the elementalist. I've been enjoying this class a whole lot more (even if surprisingly underpowered) as there's a lot more skill to be learned to use one well. Wearing out your fingers swapping attunements, bouncing about and chainging combos sensibly they can still do some pretty nasty things whilst looking bloody amazing. I also recently found that survivability increases a lot by maxing out on air attunement with some points in earth. This is mainly due to the speed boost and staff knockback on a shortish cd. Then when getting focus fired, swap out to earth shield and cc chasing buggers with rubble.
That's why suggested dodging Bulls Rush (charge + knockdown) or a CC breaker if they use Bolas (ranged root). If they catch you with one of those then it leaves them free to use frenzy and 100 bades, frenzy gives them quickness which means they can cast 100b very very quickly resulting in 15k ish damage on you, believe me that hurts even on a Guardian unless you have a lot of toughness. Generally they'll hit frenzy during the bulls rush as it doesn't interrupt, if you dodge it they're rooted in place doing the 100b animation and will take 50% more damage for 4 seconds so hit them with a hard combo.
You should try out dagger/dagger at some point it's insanely fun compared to staff. Plays more akin to an assassin type than a caster but there are some really nasty damage combos for spiking with it. Staff doesn't really have much in the way of spike damage so Warriors will seem tankier to you.
1. Warriors are insanely durable and nasty in pvp, it generally takes about four people to take one down whilst he plows through groups of players. And that's not even the ones that clearly know what they're doing or 1v1. Silly and highly imbalanced.
2. Necromancers are likewise insanely survivable and insanely potent, I've also seen half the team waste a decent amount of time trying to take even bad ones down and they're next to impossible to take down 1v1 with an ele.
3. Elementalists are conversely far too underpowered for their squishyness and need some kind of boost. I play one as a main and they're a lot of fun but very hard work to be effective unless you're left alone, a little tweaking upwards would make them a challenge as opposed to a frustration.
Everything else seems appromimately well balanced, I aint gonna jump on the guardians are op bandwagon as I think their ability to kill you is hat you would expect from a tankish class (depending on spec ofc).
1. Warriors are dead squishy when DPS specced. They can be beaten by all classes 1 v 1 it doesn't take 4 in anyone's imagination, even when tank specced they have nothing on the Guardian for survivability. Generally the ones in sPvP spec for Frenzy and 100 blades, use your CC breaker or dodge when they do their Bulls Rush/Bolas + 100 blades and they're gubbed, they also take 50% extra damage while under the Frenzy buff so capitalize on that. Granted they can blind side you or catch you without a CC breaker up in sPvP due to it being a bit zergy with 8v8 but they are kinda crappy in 5v5 tournaments.
2. Necros are fine IMO although you'll find most who play them saying they're weak. You have damage avoidance skills as an Ele and most Necros are Staff+another weapon set, use one of your skills that stop damage when they start laying down their marks from their staff skills, they go on cooldown and they switch to their other weapon set which in general are lacklustre for them and they have to wait 10 seconds before they can switch back and start laying marks down again. Line of sight their elite Lich Form skill as it's damage comes from spamming #1 which is ranged.
3. Agreed, they need a boost in damage across many of their skills and bug fixing in others.
1. yes squishy but put you down in 1 sec stun you then they frenzy and HB you and you are dead and maybe other guys who were near you also
2. necros are a bit OP they are just to tanky and do lots of damage
3. elementalist already hit like truck with meteor storm i got hit for 7k with meteor and it still raining
Really? Thief... nerfed... one of the weakest pvp classes in game...
Did they neglect that Warrior does MORE burst damage then thief and is far more tanky?
I have an 80 thief now and from my play experience, the damage they kinda meh... even my mesmer could stack up some good damage with a long sword that rivaled my Thief's damage burst, while having more survivability. Why not just admit you dislike thiefs ANET and remove that lack luster class from the game completely? Sure I had fun playing it but its not practical to play a thief to actually be competative or good.
I can dominate sPvP as a thief, but I can do that much better with many of the other classes I've taken time to play.
I love the game..or i should say I love the PVE game.. if they start nerfing classes for PVP and ruining my PVE enjoyment then.....I started to say Id cancel my subscription!....but that doesnt apply here .. lol
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
Thieves aren't OP. The ones who play the back stab or pistol whip spam builds are usually specced to be glass cannons and cannot survive if you pressure them hard. I've sent many of them to the spawn point using my Guardian, Warrior(no not 100 blades), mesmer, and even my very own thief.
Originally posted by Kost Good thieves don't spam heartseeker.
So in your opinion is this a case of A-net caving in to the "Waaaahhh! I can't beat them therefore THEY must be overpowered" crowd?
And no I'm not taking the piss. From my limited experience with thieves in GW2 its seems that when I've tried just spamming heartseeker in PVE or PVP I've had about the same survival rate as a suicide bomber.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
This was not much of a nerf. The damage output of heartseaker was not nerfered, just the levels of which the higher damage would click in.
A thief starts out a fight as a very dangerous foe. Once he is out of initiative though, he is DOA. There is a fine line of balance between initiative vs normal skill cooldowns. I currently think the skill cool downs are at an advantage.
Originally posted by lunarwitch00 but other classes can do the same thing and dominate people
No, other classes can't spam '2' because other classes have c/ds on their weapon skills.
guess you have never played thief, but i bet you have been played by one
Actually thief is my main toon. But I played other classes too.
No wonder you did answer with " it is apure l2p issue" when we did discuss the dmg ouput of the thief before the nerf and it was so abvious that the dmg was too high. But i tell you something, I played all classes in instant pvp for around two weeks without doing much pve at all.
Kind of like how Warriors Stun + Hundred Blades combo got nerfed before release (or maybe it was after..can't remember), i'm guessing Anet tracked Heartseeker spam to a very high amount of deaths.
Whether you think Thieves should have been nerfed or not, many people, including teams like Paradigm and Alpha Collective, were saying how Thieve's need to be toned down. Next up - Mesmers.
Comments
Sorry I cannot interpret your post since I'm too dumb.
SexuaLobster's Grease Portal
lol they nerf thieves and not warriors or guardians ?
fail
I think I must be seeing a lot of tanky specced warriors then. I don't know whether they're op on the dps or if its the fact that they have you lying flat on your back for most of the fight.
Funny enough, I started off playing a guardian and got bored rapidly, far too much of an easymode and switched over to the elementalist. I've been enjoying this class a whole lot more (even if surprisingly underpowered) as there's a lot more skill to be learned to use one well. Wearing out your fingers swapping attunements, bouncing about and chainging combos sensibly they can still do some pretty nasty things whilst looking bloody amazing. I also recently found that survivability increases a lot by maxing out on air attunement with some points in earth. This is mainly due to the speed boost and staff knockback on a shortish cd. Then when getting focus fired, swap out to earth shield and cc chasing buggers with rubble.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Actually they slightly buffed guardians.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
and u can also be dead by a GS warrior with 3 skills,stun-third skillbar-f1 rage att.
18k hp gone in 3 hit if thats not OP then dunno what it is anymore
Crud.
But I can understand where this came from. It was no biggie in PvE but messes up the PvP balance.
However, stay away from my mobility, it is the only thing keeping us alive.
I know which profession I'm going to level up next then! Going to eventually level up most of the professions to 80. So when nerfs and buffs come by, it's just a matter of playing another character during FOTM season.
Though still doesn't stop me looking at the buffs and nerfs objectively. Heard a few people complaining about heartseeker in WvW mapchat. Though tried it myself and fought against other thieves that spammed it. Wasn't impressed. It was really counter productive to spam it.
All the thief builds I've red say to use it sparingly and more as a gap closer than an actual attack.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Not surprised in the slightest about this change, I expect there will probably be ongoing changes to all classes over the coming weeks and months.
Btw the old "a good x doesn't spam x ability" line is never a valid counter to a case put forward with regards to OP abilities. A "good thief" may never spam heartseeker, but if there are tons of "not good" players rolling thieves and spamming the crap out of it in every scenario to good effect, then there is an issue.
Tbh for me, this is indicative of the problem with sPvP/e-sports/arenas outside of FPS games or games where everyone just jumps into the instance with exactly the same (or near enough) abilities.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Spamming the same skill will get you killed in any case.
But yeah, we mainly use it to jump to an opponent, still, the burst damage was a nice bonus...
Cant say I will lie awake sleepless because of this nerf though (but OPs comment about nerfing speed is another matter, that one would really ***** me off.
That's why suggested dodging Bulls Rush (charge + knockdown) or a CC breaker if they use Bolas (ranged root). If they catch you with one of those then it leaves them free to use frenzy and 100 bades, frenzy gives them quickness which means they can cast 100b very very quickly resulting in 15k ish damage on you, believe me that hurts even on a Guardian unless you have a lot of toughness. Generally they'll hit frenzy during the bulls rush as it doesn't interrupt, if you dodge it they're rooted in place doing the 100b animation and will take 50% more damage for 4 seconds so hit them with a hard combo.
You should try out dagger/dagger at some point it's insanely fun compared to staff. Plays more akin to an assassin type than a caster but there are some really nasty damage combos for spiking with it. Staff doesn't really have much in the way of spike damage so Warriors will seem tankier to you.
1. yes squishy but put you down in 1 sec stun you then they frenzy and HB you and you are dead and maybe other guys who were near you also
2. necros are a bit OP they are just to tanky and do lots of damage
3. elementalist already hit like truck with meteor storm i got hit for 7k with meteor and it still raining
Really? Thief... nerfed... one of the weakest pvp classes in game...
Did they neglect that Warrior does MORE burst damage then thief and is far more tanky?
I have an 80 thief now and from my play experience, the damage they kinda meh... even my mesmer could stack up some good damage with a long sword that rivaled my Thief's damage burst, while having more survivability. Why not just admit you dislike thiefs ANET and remove that lack luster class from the game completely? Sure I had fun playing it but its not practical to play a thief to actually be competative or good.
I can dominate sPvP as a thief, but I can do that much better with many of the other classes I've taken time to play.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
This is not a game.
So in your opinion is this a case of A-net caving in to the "Waaaahhh! I can't beat them therefore THEY must be overpowered" crowd?
And no I'm not taking the piss. From my limited experience with thieves in GW2 its seems that when I've tried just spamming heartseeker in PVE or PVP I've had about the same survival rate as a suicide bomber.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
WHAAAT?
Thief could have needed a BUFF! I never died to much than with my Thief. My warrior does almost the same dmg and have 10 times the survivability!
Absurd! And AGAIN because of PVP. Damn you!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This was not much of a nerf. The damage output of heartseaker was not nerfered, just the levels of which the higher damage would click in.
A thief starts out a fight as a very dangerous foe. Once he is out of initiative though, he is DOA. There is a fine line of balance between initiative vs normal skill cooldowns. I currently think the skill cool downs are at an advantage.
No wonder you did answer with " it is apure l2p issue" when we did discuss the dmg ouput of the thief before the nerf and it was so abvious that the dmg was too high. But i tell you something, I played all classes in instant pvp for around two weeks without doing much pve at all.
Lol this is turning into the official GW2 forums.
Remember guys: Anet said they would only make balance changes when their data supported the need for something to be tweaked.
Kind of like how Warriors Stun + Hundred Blades combo got nerfed before release (or maybe it was after..can't remember), i'm guessing Anet tracked Heartseeker spam to a very high amount of deaths.
Whether you think Thieves should have been nerfed or not, many people, including teams like Paradigm and Alpha Collective, were saying how Thieve's need to be toned down. Next up - Mesmers.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.