we would spend weeks trying to down bosses, moving our way through dungeons only to fail and try another day.
I don't know if you have actually played any of the dungeons in gw2, but they are pretty fking hard.
Yup. Explorer mode especially. The golems in Sorrow's Embrace took us an hour of solid wiping before we figured out their gimmick. The repair bill broke some of the players. That's not exactly "EZ Mode"
I completely agree, there should be this sort of content.
BUT, I want you to keep this in mind friend, for one, going based off the "general" feeling of the population is High-Schoolish and sheepish, but second and most important, is that they have stated on multiple occasions that they will create and release loads of new content for Guild Wars 2 for YEARS to come.
For now, we have a large, solid game, that is going to take some time to fully get thorugh the content. I'm willing to bet that they release content for hardcore players a little more down the road when they see that a larger portion of their population is hardcore players.
Just hold tight my man, things will work out, Anet is known for listening and even conversing about ideas with the community. My advice, post this stuff on their forums, get it to blow up. They will see soon enough if they don't already have this sort of hardcore content planned. I'm not necessarily aggreeing with raids specifically, but hardcore players should be rewarded just as much if not a little more than casual players.
I've already put 240 hours into GW2 and have legendary weapons, so I'd like to see some of this content coming soon.
You have yet to interact with Tequatl, The Shatterer, or The Claw of Jormag. Am I right?
I only think that because those fights require huge groups of players to work together. Not in the "raid" sense that you're thinking of old where they're listening to one single raid commander giving order and such. No, instead there's small groups doing specific objectives like guarding the cannons, destroying walls, killing minions, attacking the dragon, and so on. Each dragon takes at least 30 players to kill, so thus the raid type.
apparently you haven't done any of the dragon battles. I've experienced them multiple times now and with each time groups ranged from 15-35. For the most part they are a joke. The Shatterer with 30 people takes less then 10 minutes to kill most of the time less and barely ever gets to the crystal phase. Tequatl isn't much better. I personally expected them to be some what of a challenge; which they are not at all. They are supposed to be open world "Raid" style content but as they currently stand they are a joke and do not scale period. There are low level area champions that pose a greater challenge. Beginner boss fights such as Fire Elemental in metrica province as well as the Champion Giant in the Charr zone are by comparison more of a "Raid" style content.
If you currently recommend someone who is a "Hardcore" player to go check out these dragons, you are going to get laughed at. Until Arena Net fixes the scaling system the Dragons including Zhaitan are just an incredible disappointment and nearly ruined the game for myself and a lot of my guild members.
I'm a hardcore gamer, I play anywhere from 8-10 hours daily. I was looking forward to these open world boss fights since like I stated above some of the low level area veteran mobs are some what of a challenge to figure out. If Anet fixes this and makes these open world boss fights what Siphead describes then I'll be a happy camper but currently they've turned my play style in Gw2 to extremely casual.
@ OP the game wasn't designed to be hardcore. There are pleanty of games on the market to fit those needs.
IamApropos See where adventure will lead you! My PC Specs: i5-3570k oc'ed @4.2GHz 8GB 1600 RAM GTX670 oc'ed @ 1.25Ghz Samsung 830 SSD.
Play through some Explorer paths of the Dungeons in GW2, or go solo in Orr before complaining that the game is too easy. There is challenging play in the game for those who want it.
I thought GW2 players would have figure it out by now ...
... Guild Wars 2 has as much to do about meaningful "War" as World of Warcraft does.
Eventually it will offer more group challenges but just like Wow it will make sure to separate those mini-games away from the social world and compartmentalize everything into nice little, safe, sterile, hermetically sealed portions.
When I think about a video game being "hardcore", it usually brings back memories of throwing my controller and yelling obscenities. A hardcore video game is unfiltered, unrelenting mental anguish and pain. It is cramped fingers and throbbing hands stuck in a claw-like position.
Why the hell would anyone want their video game to be hardcore?
i actually never played EQ1 but have to give it respect for being one of the first. Oh that's just genius, they should have made two GW2's make one hardcore and the other like it is now. may need little more hardware but basic game is the same on both side just make one hard as hell with maybe three or so big raid to start, the other would be for casual players. Think about it, why can't they do that? just had to throw a shoe at my gf before she would get me another beer, can you believe that?
yu want hardcore challenge? y not go back to yur lvl1 equipment n skills n after tht nvr use any other skill n nvr learn any new either? oh n y not challenge mobs tht r 10 or so lvls above yu as well?n also y not skip using healing as well?:) i think thtd help to make the game more challengin but i dunno theres my suggestion in makin the game more challengin if it aint tht alrdy i dunno cant play it atm
IMO, there's nothing hardcore about raiding or PvE in general. What you call hardcore in raiding is what I call a waste of time. Why bother creating 20+ players raids when you can have the same or even more challenging fight in a 5man dungeon?
If you want to be hardcore in a MMO, then go PvP and be one of the top players of the game. Because let's be realistic here, PvE in every single game is easy. Sure some fights are more challenging at 1st because its a new game, things are getting sorted out and stuff, but it will always be a scripted AI fight. Everyone can be good in PvE with little to no effort while being good at PvP is a whole different story. Being good at PvP requires a deeper understanding of the games mechanics and professions and this is where you will understand the difference between someone who is really hardcore and someone who thinks he is. The amount of time you put in a game have nothing to do about being hardcore IMO, because even if you spent 40 hours a week playing a game, if you can't beat the guy who only spent 5-10 hours a week your just a noob who thinks he's hardcore.
So for me, being hardcore in video games is about understanding every little aspect of the game you play and be able to compete at the top level.
Vanilla WoW excluded 95% of the population from experiencing most of the game.
This is not a good model for a modern mmo and all development companies know it.
GW2 allows you to experience boss fights without having to grind gear, get in an organised guild, play 10 hours per day and raid during set hours ad-nauseum to get to the next tier of raiding to grind and raid and grind and raid.
Im sure we sould all revert to the pre-claimed, ninja looting "style" of vanilla WoW raiding, people seem to forget the hatred and animosity this game created back in the day.
It's not hardcore, it was never hardcore, it was simply a time sink and a gear check, nothing more.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Originally posted by tank017 If you think wow was hardcore, then I'm afraid you've never experienced hardcore before..You won't find it in WoW or GW2
Lol, yeah.
While some stuff in GW2 actually can be hard hardcore dissapeared when EQ and AC lost popularity. Rumor say that Eve still have a little though.
Real hardcore used to mean that even getting to max level could take a year of only gaming instead of wasting your time on stuff like working, showering or sleeping. Well, that might be a little over the top but it wasnt that far away in the late 90s.
If you however think Wow is hardcore, then sure, getting a legendary weapon in GW2 is hardcore....
Edit: I did not mean hardcore is good.... In fact doing drugs is usually better.
Raiding with a lot of people is just that, a lot of people and a lot of people that are being carried by a few tanks and healers. i really do not see how this is considered hardcore. The only thing i would consider hardcore is being able to lose what you have worked/played for.
Eve-online is what i call hardcore because even spacecarebears are not safe on their 'safe' space and everyone runs the risk of losing what they are currently sitting on, and everyone does at some point. No themepark PvE game has ever struk me as hardcore bar the few that have open world pvp its the only thing i can think of. The rest is just tag along gameplay.
Originally posted by lilHeala Why buy this game if it was advertised to not have what you're looking for?
I have to agree with this. Anet was pretty clear this game was being designed as a casual mmo, they even use the world quite a lot. Even when they talk about WvW they use the word casual.
Same here. Not every game is for everyone. ArenaNet learned from the past and part of that past is WOW, which over a 5 or 6 year period shrank group size reqs from 40 to 5. It's not really a hardcore/casual thing as much as it is a niche thing - the logistics and the people that enjoy 40-man content has proven to make it both prohibitive and unenjoyable to most gamers.
Of couse, none of those gamers are anywhere between hardcore and casual. Either with you or against you. Right, david?
Not many find what you consider hardcore to be fun so I'd expect more BAM like group content in future MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Hardcore left the building a long time ago. The last hardcore game I played was Lineage 2, since then the trend has been leaning towards easy mode MMOs (even L2 itself has followed the shift over the years).
Most people just don't want to be challenged in their entertainment, it's a fact and it's understandable. I do though which is why I'm so excited about the Darkfall relaunch. This doesn't mean I'm worth more than anyone else however, it's just a question of personal tastes.
Truth right there! And no, for me MMO's with FFA PvP, full loot, perma death and all that crap is not what I call "hardcore" but more a game for griefers or for people who don't like a balanced fight.
Comments
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I don't know if you have actually played any of the dungeons in gw2, but they are pretty fking hard.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Yup. Explorer mode especially. The golems in Sorrow's Embrace took us an hour of solid wiping before we figured out their gimmick. The repair bill broke some of the players. That's not exactly "EZ Mode"
I know what you getting at but the thing is, killing that boss you learned the moves aoe whatnot to kill it so you entered farm mode.
When you are in farm mode the challenge is gone.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I completely agree, there should be this sort of content.
BUT, I want you to keep this in mind friend, for one, going based off the "general" feeling of the population is High-Schoolish and sheepish, but second and most important, is that they have stated on multiple occasions that they will create and release loads of new content for Guild Wars 2 for YEARS to come.
For now, we have a large, solid game, that is going to take some time to fully get thorugh the content. I'm willing to bet that they release content for hardcore players a little more down the road when they see that a larger portion of their population is hardcore players.
Just hold tight my man, things will work out, Anet is known for listening and even conversing about ideas with the community. My advice, post this stuff on their forums, get it to blow up. They will see soon enough if they don't already have this sort of hardcore content planned. I'm not necessarily aggreeing with raids specifically, but hardcore players should be rewarded just as much if not a little more than casual players.
I've already put 240 hours into GW2 and have legendary weapons, so I'd like to see some of this content coming soon.
apparently you haven't done any of the dragon battles. I've experienced them multiple times now and with each time groups ranged from 15-35. For the most part they are a joke. The Shatterer with 30 people takes less then 10 minutes to kill most of the time less and barely ever gets to the crystal phase. Tequatl isn't much better. I personally expected them to be some what of a challenge; which they are not at all. They are supposed to be open world "Raid" style content but as they currently stand they are a joke and do not scale period. There are low level area champions that pose a greater challenge. Beginner boss fights such as Fire Elemental in metrica province as well as the Champion Giant in the Charr zone are by comparison more of a "Raid" style content.
If you currently recommend someone who is a "Hardcore" player to go check out these dragons, you are going to get laughed at. Until Arena Net fixes the scaling system the Dragons including Zhaitan are just an incredible disappointment and nearly ruined the game for myself and a lot of my guild members.
I'm a hardcore gamer, I play anywhere from 8-10 hours daily. I was looking forward to these open world boss fights since like I stated above some of the low level area veteran mobs are some what of a challenge to figure out. If Anet fixes this and makes these open world boss fights what Siphead describes then I'll be a happy camper but currently they've turned my play style in Gw2 to extremely casual.
@ OP the game wasn't designed to be hardcore. There are pleanty of games on the market to fit those needs.
IamApropos
See where adventure will lead you!
My PC Specs:
i5-3570k oc'ed @4.2GHz
8GB 1600 RAM
GTX670 oc'ed @ 1.25Ghz
Samsung 830 SSD.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I thought GW2 players would have figure it out by now ...
... Guild Wars 2 has as much to do about meaningful "War" as World of Warcraft does.
Eventually it will offer more group challenges but just like Wow it will make sure to separate those mini-games away from the social world and compartmentalize everything into nice little, safe, sterile, hermetically sealed portions.
You stay sassy!
When I think about a video game being "hardcore", it usually brings back memories of throwing my controller and yelling obscenities. A hardcore video game is unfiltered, unrelenting mental anguish and pain. It is cramped fingers and throbbing hands stuck in a claw-like position.
Why the hell would anyone want their video game to be hardcore?
i actually never played EQ1 but have to give it respect for being one of the first. Oh that's just genius, they should have made two GW2's make one hardcore and the other like it is now. may need little more hardware but basic game is the same on both side just make one hard as hell with maybe three or so big raid to start, the other would be for casual players. Think about it, why can't they do that? just had to throw a shoe at my gf before she would get me another beer, can you believe that?
Peace,
Lascer
IMO, there's nothing hardcore about raiding or PvE in general. What you call hardcore in raiding is what I call a waste of time. Why bother creating 20+ players raids when you can have the same or even more challenging fight in a 5man dungeon?
If you want to be hardcore in a MMO, then go PvP and be one of the top players of the game. Because let's be realistic here, PvE in every single game is easy. Sure some fights are more challenging at 1st because its a new game, things are getting sorted out and stuff, but it will always be a scripted AI fight. Everyone can be good in PvE with little to no effort while being good at PvP is a whole different story. Being good at PvP requires a deeper understanding of the games mechanics and professions and this is where you will understand the difference between someone who is really hardcore and someone who thinks he is. The amount of time you put in a game have nothing to do about being hardcore IMO, because even if you spent 40 hours a week playing a game, if you can't beat the guy who only spent 5-10 hours a week your just a noob who thinks he's hardcore.
So for me, being hardcore in video games is about understanding every little aspect of the game you play and be able to compete at the top level.
^^ This,
the rest of you need to eat a bag of cement and harden the f**k up!
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Vanilla WoW excluded 95% of the population from experiencing most of the game.
This is not a good model for a modern mmo and all development companies know it.
GW2 allows you to experience boss fights without having to grind gear, get in an organised guild, play 10 hours per day and raid during set hours ad-nauseum to get to the next tier of raiding to grind and raid and grind and raid.
Im sure we sould all revert to the pre-claimed, ninja looting "style" of vanilla WoW raiding, people seem to forget the hatred and animosity this game created back in the day.
It's not hardcore, it was never hardcore, it was simply a time sink and a gear check, nothing more.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Agreed, this is hardcore.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Lol, yeah.
While some stuff in GW2 actually can be hard hardcore dissapeared when EQ and AC lost popularity. Rumor say that Eve still have a little though.
Real hardcore used to mean that even getting to max level could take a year of only gaming instead of wasting your time on stuff like working, showering or sleeping. Well, that might be a little over the top but it wasnt that far away in the late 90s.
If you however think Wow is hardcore, then sure, getting a legendary weapon in GW2 is hardcore....
Edit: I did not mean hardcore is good.... In fact doing drugs is usually better.
Hardcore?
Raiding with a lot of people is just that, a lot of people and a lot of people that are being carried by a few tanks and healers. i really do not see how this is considered hardcore. The only thing i would consider hardcore is being able to lose what you have worked/played for.
Eve-online is what i call hardcore because even spacecarebears are not safe on their 'safe' space and everyone runs the risk of losing what they are currently sitting on, and everyone does at some point. No themepark PvE game has ever struk me as hardcore bar the few that have open world pvp its the only thing i can think of. The rest is just tag along gameplay.
Same here. Not every game is for everyone. ArenaNet learned from the past and part of that past is WOW, which over a 5 or 6 year period shrank group size reqs from 40 to 5. It's not really a hardcore/casual thing as much as it is a niche thing - the logistics and the people that enjoy 40-man content has proven to make it both prohibitive and unenjoyable to most gamers.
Of couse, none of those gamers are anywhere between hardcore and casual. Either with you or against you. Right, david?
Not many find what you consider hardcore to be fun so I'd expect more BAM like group content in future MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Hardcore left the building a long time ago. The last hardcore game I played was Lineage 2, since then the trend has been leaning towards easy mode MMOs (even L2 itself has followed the shift over the years).
Most people just don't want to be challenged in their entertainment, it's a fact and it's understandable. I do though which is why I'm so excited about the Darkfall relaunch. This doesn't mean I'm worth more than anyone else however, it's just a question of personal tastes.
Try DayZ for hard core
http://dayzmod.com/
its a great game
No PvE will be hardcore ever.
Sorry.
+1
Truth right there! And no, for me MMO's with FFA PvP, full loot, perma death and all that crap is not what I call "hardcore" but more a game for griefers or for people who don't like a balanced fight.