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F2P = Milk the cow publishers are cashing in.
NortonGB
Member UncommonPosts: 279
So we have all seen the trend to Free-to-play games with cash shops.
This is to attract income far in above to a set low P2P monthly subscription and it appears to be working.
The problem the industry has is that almost every month a new Asian mmorpg is being created with moderately paid devs and unless the publishers give good feedback or bug fixes done which they often don't players get bored very quickly and move on to a newer game to find the same thing.
it's time the industry invested more into supporting their games and not throw them out to the do little publishers.
There is a dying trend in F2P gaming, profit hungry companies superiors that don't want to invest in a good quality game offer poor support and move on to the next game to milk the same communities over and over again.
This is sad for the future gaming industry imo.
Comments
This post is typical of F2P-phobia. Sweeping generalizations without any substance or even a single example. I've posted my responses in green.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Time to move on? Cause they won't stop to pop up.
Ok here's an example: Aion is far better than many of the newer games and yet all Gameforge EU want to do it maintain a low cost support with only one dedicated programmer who has no time to do what is needed. Every week their cash shop is updated with months of delays for simple ncsoft patches, even a simple bug fix takes months.
So because the game you like has poor support and doesn't do the things you want the whole f2p movement is the same? Smell like nerdrage to me.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
So you avoid certain games just because of a label? you are missing out on lots of great and free gaming but as they say ignorance is bliss.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Thats not realy exclusive to F2P, there are plenty of P2P games that went like that a long time as well. Vanguard before it went F2P this summer is a good example, it had nearly no updates whatsoever for 3 years.
I am not that found of F2P myself, but it is not how you as customers pay the companies that affect how large team a game have or how much money a company invest in it from launch.
F2Ps bad side is that it generally is actually more expensive to play them at the endgame than P2P and that it often becomes pay2win. And it is fun disliking F2P, after all have companies like EA and Activision ideas to make all computer games F2P and they hardly say that out of kindness. They expect more profit, preferably a lot more. And we will have to pay for it. Personally do I think this instead will lead to a second comming of software pirates and we might get back to the old C-64 and Amiga days where almost all games were pirated.
So I dont like F2P games either, but dont blame the payment method on stuff it have nothing to do with. If Aion have a small crew it is because it doesnt have enough players/income and changing the model back to P2P would change nothing.
Theres a BIG difference between the Asian and western free to play models . Personally I prefer free to play to subscription models because I can just play the content when I want to without worrying whether I'm getting value for money .
As for it dieing don't make me laugh if anything its growing .
Then go back to lurking and don't read them. No one forces you to click on a link and read a thread you're not interested in.
Simple, right?
The OP makes a valid point, and one that is becoming increasingly clear to more and more people as time goes on.
F2P is intended to "milk" players for all the developer can. They are designed that way, and this is a known fact. The result is that more effort goes into finding ways to monetize players through deliberately imposed limitations, speed-bumps and handicaps which can all be "paid away" via cash shop purchases, than is going into finding new and interesting ways to actually entertain the players enough for them to actually want to stick around and play month after month.
The players are steadily beginning to realize it and are becoming more and more vocal about it. This is a good thing.
Regarding the OP, I personally hope the industry soon hits a point where that "bubble" bursts, big publishers decide MMOs aren't a good place for them, they all run and dig their greedy fingers into the social-gaming scene, and get the hell out of MMOs. They've done more than enough damage at this point already.
Then we can get back to having MMORPGs designed by gamers who understand the genre, where it came from and it was intended to be. I'd prefer that over them being designed by market analysts, bean counters and suits who are couldn't shoot their way out of a wet-paper bag with instructions and a starter hole, because they'd be more concerned about how much doing so would affect their bottom line.
MMORPGs have become a cash grab to the big game developers and publishers, and the players are nothing more than open wallets to them.
So games with a monthly fee and an item shop are better?
Aion (which I played in beta and at launch) had serious issues even when the game was supposed to take the West by storm. My opinion is that each game should be looked at on a case by case basis rather than a sweeping statement about F2P or greedy publishers. I don't feel that it's greedy to keep a game alive instead of closing the doors when the sub fee didn't generate the revenue they had hoped. Players should be thankful that the game is still availabe to play. While I agree that it's not staffed the way it shoudl be, we must consider the alternative in Aion's case. Keep the doors open with minimal staff or close the doors. No company is going to spend more on support staff than the game can financially support. If NCSoft has proven anything it's that they won't keep a game running that doesn't make money (i.e., City of Heroes).
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Nope. Cash shop is bad also in p2p games.
False dichotomies aren't arguments.
And, no, P2P with cash shops aren't better. I'd argue it's worse because it's double-dipping.
Cash Shops are bad, period. In-game items should be obtained in-game by playing it. If they want to get more money from players, then offer them real items of some value. Shirts, collectibles, keychains, mouse-pads, etc. Those things would be every bit as "optional" as their in-game counterparts, but at least they're real items and have no impact on the game design or gameplay.
The correct response is: P2P with a monthly subscription, period. Either with an initial box fee + sub or, if the developer can make it work, subscription with no initial box fee.
You should buy the game, pay a monthly sub fee for the on-going support and service, and that's it. Nice. Simple. Straight-forward. No room for shenanigans through dubious cash shop practices.
And if the trend is dying that developers don't support their games why so pesimistic
The days will come when EA supports a game and not just milk it. When Blizzard offers timely updates and not every blue moon.
When developers interact with their customers and at least explain some crappy design decisions.
One talk I had with a developer why he did not introduce one feature for a year was 'I do not like toggled features' :P
He introduced a toggle in the end though so kuddos to him
Interesting thought. I guess I hadn't really looked at the differences between eastern and western cash shops. I would say that cash shops are an evolving creature that hasn't yet reached it's peak. There is such a fine line betwen a cash shop that can't generate revenue and a cash shop that is pay to win. Not an easy task, to be sure. It's been successful in Asia for years and is still somewhat frowned upon in the West. I do think, however, that Western companies are finally getting a grip on how to do them correctly.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
They'll have to implode, or come close to it, before that happens.
There's an obvious arrogance among big game developers where, no matter what their players are actually telling them, they're going to ignore all that and do whatever their analysts and bean counters tell them is "the right thing". Their decisions are based on milking more of their customers' money, not providing their customers better entertainment or service.
CDProjekt, the people behind The Witcher games, said it themselves... Gamers are treated like milking cows instead of as valued customers.
I agree. Western implementation, for the most part at least, has been much better than the Eastern version, which is typically P2W. Unfortunately the Eastern / P2W style has been around longer and in many more games and so the whole P2W stigma still sticks to anything dubbed F2P.
Some Western games have gone down the road of becoming P2W, but we also have some great examples of how to do it right without making a game P2W and also offering alternatives to spending real money (like farming and exchanging in game gold, or earning Favor through playing like in DDO).
News Flash!
A company's goal is to make money, more at 11 Jim.
I'd like to jump in and comment on this.
I've been unemployed for a while now, and because of that the only mmos that I play are f2p. And after playing so many of them lately, I've come to change my mind about how we pay for these things. I used to prefer flat subs, but now, I dont really care for them.
Partially its because I cant really afford one atm, sure. But also because, when you think about what you are actually getting for your sub money, you might realise that just "access to servers", having customer support for one or two help requests in 4 years or a shallow bug fix or new dungeon every few months (or a proper expansion, which is payed in full and seperately btw) isnt really worth 15 dollars every month.
But with f2p, when you pay for something, you know exactly what you are getting. 5 dollars, I got another character slot. 10 dollars, I got the latest expansion pack content. Another 5 for a few cosmetic items. And then, for 4 or 5 months, I pay nothing more, because I dont want XP potions, I dont want the other cosmetics, I dont want whatever else they are selling. In those 4 months where I am just enjoying what I got for 20 dollars a wow player spends 60. If its a slow period, that player probably got no new content updates. If he's careful and/or lucky, he wont need customer support.
So whats the better deal then? You can tell me that wow is a better game than Fallen Earth, Champions Online or Vanguard, but take all the bells and whistles away, and the differences get murky.
Living without a job for as long as I have been made me appreciate the other side of mmo gaming, and its not as thorny as you might think.
I LOL'd at this. Based on what I frequently read from some gamers, I think they prefer no sub and no cash shop. Just free everthing. What could possibly go wrong?
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Honestly, ditch the EU Aion and go to the US one, where you can actually get something done without having to pay a fortune for it, and where the updates are reasonable - I've seen tons of European players make the switch.
More on topic, I think the ingame "cash shops" actually improve the quality of today's games, they inspire (and more importanly fund) developers to add way more stuff than they would have in the past - and if somehing is added that is of no interest to you? Simply don't buy it.
As someone already mentioned before, we are spoiled as gamers nowadays, MMO's update much more frequently than they used to.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/