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What makes GW 2 not being great
Yamota
Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
in Guild Wars 2
I think most of us can say that GW 2 is really good but for me it is still lacking to become great and here is a list of things which I think holds it back.
- S-PvP. Easiest the biggest dissapointment in the game as you would expect a game called GUILD Wars to be centered around PvP between guilds. However that is hardly the case. The PvP comes in two forms, one is a completely separate meta-game called structured PvP which is basically a MOBA variant in MMORPGs. I tried it and it does not come near the fun of League of Legends and as it is separate from the rest of the game feel misplaced. Would much be better if it was something like in Warhammer Online, giving you an alternate route to advance your character.
- WvWvW PvP. Three "faction" World vs World PvP sounds great on the paper. Unfourtunately since all servers share the same factions it just feels bland. In DAoC I could see the distinction between say the Albions and the Viking faction (forgot the name) but in GW 2 they are all the same. More over, the PvP is pointless as the bonuses are small and you dont really need them so when you take over a keep you really dont care as you know it will be lost by the next day. They need to add more meaning and persistance to it and specially they need to make it more important for guilds to hold a keep.
- No endgame. Apparently the idea in GW 2 is that end-game starts at level 2. Unfourtunately that means that there wont be much of an endgame once you cap your character as they have, more or less removed the gear grind as legendary weapons are exactly the same as exotics. So that is great, gear grind is no fun, but they have replaced ith with uhm... nothing.
- Dynamic Events are circular. Don't really matter when you finish one as they just go around and around in an endless cycles. They should be more complex and more persistant, maybe even resulting in an invasion of capital cities. For example there is a big dragon in the lvl 75-80 arctic zone which spawns, gets zerg-killed and respawns in an endless cycle. Have never seen what happens if it does not get zerg-killed but I imagine it would just sit there until it is.
Anyway my 2 pennies why I think GW 2 is not the great MMORPG I expected it to be.
Comments
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
For me what does not make it great is whole game concept. No I am not fan of tiered linear raid progression WoW style.
Still GW2 concept is propably what GW2 fans like most. Good that someone created something difftent, now please create something on other side of the scale please.
I have to agree with you on the Guild Vs Guild thing, it should be in the game. I know for a fact that they worked on guildhalls of some kind over a year ago (Source; Jeff Grubb) but they never made it into launch so it is likely that this will be in the first expansion of the game.
Guild Vs Guild without guildhalls or guildtowns/keeps just become weak but it do needs to be added.
Otherwise I just cant agree with you. As for DEs being circular, that is still better than the even more predictable questchains. They are not perfect but they are a step in the right direction and the first real improvement of questing since Meridian 59.
That till this day they still haven't fixed orr map which blocks arah dungeon every weekend.
I am here waiting till monday so they will reset server and arah is once again open then on friday it will get stuck again having to wait till monday's restart.
BUT
Some people will come now and say change server.
Why should I change server? Shouldn't they fix this problem already? Why should I have to swich servers with a potential chance the server you chose has arah stuck too? So I have to wait 24h cooldown to go back to my server?
This is bullshit but somehow people still defend the zone. (Some people where complaining near arah and I joined the chat)
How can that go by anet is what I don't understand, it's been happening every friday or saturday morning every single week!
Regarding the sPvP:
I agree that sPvP could have been better if done differently and had a link to the rest of the game. But You also have to understand that sPvP was designed with the e-sport aspect in mind, which means seperating the 2 completely. As a regular player, yeah it kind of sucks. But if e-sport in GW2 evolves well and you become a competitor, then you will really appreciate it.
Regarding the DEs:
Are they perfect? No. Are they a step in the right direction? Yes. A few other games are also following suit, and seemingly improving upon it, like The Repopulation. Nothing is ever flawless in its 1st form. It is usually perfected by someone else over time with trial and error. Personally, from what Ive seen so far of The Repopulation, theyre going to pull it off much better than GW2 (assuming things will work properly). It still wont be perfect, but again it will continue a trend in a good direction instead of repeating what weve been playing for 10+ years.
Edit: To see what I mean with The Repopulation, if you havent already checked it out, look here: http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=177&Itemid=453
The system is basically functions similar to DEs, but slightly improved with more randomness, more chains, and more impact on the world.
Yeah, I have to agree. I don't mind that sPvP is seperated from the rest of the game since like you said it is designed with e-sport in mind.
The fanbois in this game are worse than any other I've ever seen. Don't dare mention anything is broken or not working, you might get burned at the stake for blasphemy. I'm sure Anet is working it though.
I would agree with most points. Anet promised the sky and delivered, well, a nice view from the top of a really tall mountain. The game is good, I like it, but I don't think it can ever be a GREAT game (IMO) because the things they would have to change are so fundamental.
WvWvW can be fun, but no one I know in game (though to be fair, most of the people I know in game do not play anymore, but that is another story) does it anymore. I used to, but it began to feel like a pointless zerg fest. It got to the point where "why am I bothering with this" outweighed any cool factor. Not saying my point of view is any more valid than someone who is still loving it, but it seems to me that the idea of WvWvW being lead primarily by the idea of "fun" and "server pride" fell far short of Anet's expectations.
As for DEs, many spoke about how revolutionary they were prior to launch, and I think that is what did some damage. Expectations were raised way to high for something that still feels canned, at least to me. It feels like there are basically four or five different types of DEs, and only the mobs and specific wording behind the goals really changes between them. Norn do the same DEs with dredge that humans are doing with centaurs etc. And in the end, they just do not feel very dynamic to me, they get old and bland like the heart quests.
For me, the game can be imporved on, but I doubt it will ever be a game I consider "great" just because the things I would like to see changed are such fundamental building blocks to what Anet was trying to create.
I think, in the end, I will just have to admit that GW2 is really not for me and move on when I am done with it, which sadly is going to be sooner than later.
Map design in PVE...
Few of them are great , but most feel just tackled on and rushed.
Funniest moment was in "Sparkfly Fen" there are litteraly 1-2 trees every now and then. And then you find the quest describing how participants got lost in this jungle ....
I had to laugh.
GW2 engine and trees - they are just not friends
I agree totally with the OP, with the exception of the last statement that seems to say he wants a weapon grind.
GW1 had GvG, and it was great if you wanted that kind of competition, HoH was a different style and the arena was different yet. GW1 hit PvP perfectly in my opinion. I wish they'd have expanded from that good start, instead of changing it to this mess. GW1 you could be competitive from the first day, and I liked that. It meant non-stop equal fights that depended on your gameplay and strategy, especially build strategy.
GW2 is just not fun, SPvP is just stupid and boring and doesn't compare to even the small arena fights let alone HoH, WvW is just a chicken with it's head cut off run around. Fights are never even and it all means nothing. I don't enjoy winning a fight 6v1, If I find one good fight in an hour of WvW I'd be shocked.
The large redeeming factor for me is that I really enjoy the PvE in this game and I didn't in GW, or almost any other game after EQ expanded to Luclin. It's not awesome, but it's fun, easy to gather up, dungeons are fun.
Anet always came out with good expansions so I have some hope they'll improve the game in both PvP and PvE.
Asdar
Hard to take seriously or even read after attempting to decipher the meaning of the subject title.
What the hell does that mean?
"What makes GW 2 not being great "
I can tell you what makes this post not so great... the terrible trend of forum posts becoming personal blogs chalk full of subjectivity.
Everything you said proves you don't know anything about the game.
The reason why people do not find GW2 great is that they place their expectations on what the game should be onto it instead of playing it for what it is. Goes for most mmos out there.
Yeah DAOC factions were so unique that you can't even remember the name of them. GW2 saw the years of neverending balancing and tweaking of classes between the factions and was wise to skip it.
This is partly Anet's own fault.
When they first started releasing info on this game they made broad and vague descriptions of the planend features and released very controlled video of private and limited paly sesssions.This coupled with theier "manifesto" made people's imaginations run wild about these features.I said at the time it was too early to form any opinions on how these things were gonna be implemented int he finsihed product so kept my own expectations low.
WHen th eimplementation of said features was revealed and did not meeet the wild imaginings of many people they were dissapointed and turned bitter.I myself am still having a blast in GW2 but I didn't let myself get over hyped and judged it on what it was not what I expected it to be.
The same can be said of my expectations of games like Archeage,Citadel of Sorcery and TESO ,I keep informed but willw ait to see how things actually work ing ame before I make any decisions or form any opinions.
OP's point #2 is not a concern to me, however.....
W v W in Jade Quarry server:
- coudn't access W v W on Friday and was put in queue until I gave up and logout.
- yesterday could get in W v W after waiting in queue for almost 2 hours
- at some point we took all over the map and were like "this is boring, we need a server to take stuff so we can have our fun". We could have move to another map but won't because then we would be placed in queue for eternity. So we stayed in our map and Stormbluff Isle started to attack our stuff.
The other server we got paired with, Henge of Denravi, is under performing very badly, and that's because the Titan Alliance, after owning in W v W for some weeks, disbanded. Some of their guilds are playing other games. Some peeps that used to play in Henge moved to Jade Quarry, since that's the top server now.
Our main concern is the queue. We don't like to have 20 members pissed off because they can't access W v W while the rest are in. If ANet doesn't take action about queue times (changing server is not helping either!), then it's bail time. I myself love the W v W as many others, but it appears we will be losing more members now
Like I said before, it's obvious he either doesn't understand the game or doesn't want to. Just because the game doesn't cater to your particular vision doesn't make it wrong, I suggest you make and publish your own software to get what you want.
Hey, birds of a feather stick together thus the likely reason you defend the pointless subjective and inaccurate rant of the OP.
Now I am name calling, you just make this stuff up on the fly?
Edit: Sorry I re-read that... you value all opinions... well I am not sure what to say to that other than good luck in life, maybe as you experience more you will understand better; See my signature.
I agree with you on all four points, and i am a rabid GW2 fanboi.
However, the good news is that all the current flaws you listed can be fixed without compromising the core game which is rock solid, from what I can see. Here are my suggestions, if anyone cares to read em.
1) Do give us XP in sPvP. WAR had this and it worked perfectly. There is no reason why this shouldn't be so and there is no concievable downside to it. This would make leveling alts a viable proposition for a huge number of people and massively increase the game's longevity with a relatively cheap and easy hot fix.
2) There won't be any factions, that's fer sure, but ANet could easily work on Realm Pride and better incentives for guilds and keep holding. Again, WAR's experience should be studied very closely because many of the problems surfacing now initially showed up in WAR as well... and were solved eventually. My suggestions:
a) Make keeps produce influence for the guild which claims it. Steady ticks + bonuses for succesful defense. Make guild claiming be a blind bid affair where guilds invest their influence and have an investment in holding onto their keeps.
b) Have keeps make money for the guilds. Open vendors in keeps which sell uniques stuff and vendor items with guilds getting percentage from all sales.
c) stupid PvE bnuses are boring and bland. No one gives a f about them. Have WvW actions activate PvE world events. Hold onto that central castle for a full day and something wonderful happens in your world.
3) There is an endgame, but what is missing are SPECIFIC goals players can pursue beyond level 80. Legendary grind is just that - legendary grind. The whole game needs a serious overhaul vis-a-vis rewards. Introduce upgraded weapon skills that can be unlocked only by performing very specific actions, such as killing all champion mobs in a particular region, that kind of thing. This whole system with karma and skill points being able to buy anything is making the game look very bland which it definitely is not. There is no particular reason why a player would go in one direction and not another. SPECIFIC REWARDS for SPECIFIC ACTIONS would enable players to go on "epic quests" of their own choosing. Imo ANet made a huge mistake when they replaced the GW1 skill acquisition system with this supermarket thing they have now. Thankfully, it's not too late to fix this.
4) Again, they went a bit too far in making the game "accessible." Some DEs should be put on much much longer timers, the current "dragon timers" are ridiculous. Hopefully, these things will get sorted out as the DE system matures.
So you want a forum which only say good things about a game? Fun for you, useless for me. Critique is the only thing that makes something better, not praise.
Create my own 50+ million game? Yeah sure, maybe I should recreate Prometheus as well because I was dissapointed of it. Mind calling Charlize Theron and ask if she is busy?
Which part is innaccurate? As for useleless and subjective, well ofcourse it is subjective but useless is for the reader to decide. If it is useless then why are you ranting about it? Just ignore it then.
My gaming blog
For sure it can be fixed, not saying it can't. It is not like SW:TOR where the game is fundamentally poorly designed. GW 2 has the core concepts right, they just need to re-prioritize and make sure the end game, be it PvE or PvP has some longetivity. Your suggestions would be good, specially with getting exp plus other rewards in sPvP which you can use in the rest of the game. No idea why they separated the two...
Also they really need it to matter to hold a keep. Right now I just dont care much for holding one, some fun raining AoE from the walls but overall pointless.
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As a total non fanboi of the game, but a guy who likes it for what it is, your suggestions are great across the board. If Anet wants to listen to one guy, your ideas are pretty much what would make the game a keeper for me, and keep me here longer instead of popping off to something else in the next few weeks. I really do not see the game holding my interest after 80 right now, and for that reason I am playing at a glacially slow pace compared to most of my past MMORPGs.
Right now I am level 60 with my highest, and but do the alt dance, simply because I really do not want to hit the end, as most of my friends have and they are pretty much all gone now. As far as my guild and friend's list go, this game is already over--almost none of them log in anymore, just me, my wife and a couple others occasionally now.
But, alas, I suspect I will run out of game before Anet makes the improvements I would like to see, so I will come back later I guess. Housing in Rift looks pretty cool, maybe I will go back to that for a while.
Yeah man, Guild halls are being implemented later when they get it all down pact with how they want GvG pvp to go. They want us to be able to completely customize our halls, pretty much giving us huge forts we can modify with troops, seige, weapons, designs, all that jazz.
And for people who think Guild Wars was named after the fact that the first one had GvG pvp make me rofl, I know that if you don't know about GW lore, you won't know...and that is understandable...
Guild Wars is actually named Guild Wars because the humans started "The Guild Wars" in the story. There is a link above to why.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Somehow I don't like the parallel world version of the WvW at all. They should at least have created a Quest chain with many choices that lets you decide what side to fight for. If there was more story behind WvW like different political factions fighting over certain things to push their agendas. This would make me more connected to my faction than this "Guys from a parallel universe are attacking us".
Additionally there could be a reward system that grants you acces to different item skins and a few faction specific skills/perks for every class (so that it isnt too hard to balance) via RP points. Those item skins should be quite different from the other factions so that the uniqueness of your faction membership is emphasized.
OR they could have made 3 distinct factions with unique classes which means more work and balancing, albeit being a much better concept.
I agree. SPvP is to unbalanced, other than that it's good.
Dynamic Events need more chaos and YES invasions on cities would be awesome. But those would be very rare events and a few hours long....i mean an invasion of a city.