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What to do at lvl 50?
Saenjaina
Member Posts: 24
I recently started playing CoH. Actually because of the hype over CoV, I wanted to try CoH out. It was cheaper (got it at discount through work) and I always liked being "the-good-guy".
So...I am enjoying the game atm. grandly. But many things are astranged to me. Even though I have played a lot of MMO's in my past (SWG, WoW, EVE).
My question is pretty basic, but why not...what exactly is there to do when you get to lvl 50? What content is there to be explored? As I have experienced so far, the main purpose of the game, the motivation, is to gain lvls.
What am I missing?
Don't get me wrong though, I really like the game. But it is somewhat different.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
- Fire Base Zulu have a few TF for level 50. You may want to try to navigate there without fly or teleport, it is challenging. Most players never learn so and just fly or teleport.
- The Hamidon drop double and triple enhancements (althought I would disagree with raiding in such a form, this is raiding and it is in the game atm). It is the same encounter over and over again.
- You can play a PeaceBringer or a Warshade only after reaching level 50 on a character. They are "Jack-of-all-trades" characters and almost as good as blaster/controller to top that, they have innate fly and some others such benefit, they got a bonus that grow with the size of the group. Other games erase a capped character once you open that slot, CoH doesn't.
However, the vast majority of players quit a little after reaching 50, not because they would not enjoy 1 of those options (the PB/Warshade is nice IMO), but because Cryptic usually drop 1 major nerf every 3 months and it is usually ruining the fun you have since it is a major setback and you can't progress to overcompensate that setback. If you enjoy that, you can play the "manage the decline" game with the free respec they give you every nerf.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
There's also badges to collect throughout the game, certain ones gives u certain benefits...
As for the nerf talk...The Devs have said that they don't plan on any more nerfs...I think any more nerfs would be suicidal to the game...However, my view on previous nerfs is that it was a necessity up to I5...As for ED, I am indifferent(leaning towards dislike more though) about it...Any more real noticeable nerfs probably isn't gonna happen though...
In interviews there has been talk about the "real end game content" being in the works...however I still wouldn't expect it anytime soon...My own personal guess would be that it'll take atleast another 6 months or more...
The devs say many things...their action is what matter, not what they says.
If you enjoy the new game, I am happy for you, the existing game community has recycle many times and the vast majority left the game. If I log in EQ, my friend list is still strong (in fact I merely reproduce a tiny part of my friend list while I was trying the Matrix...and got a 3/5). If I log in CoH, my friend list is empty and I recognize nobody while in EQ, I have no doubt I would recognize at least a character every few character I encounter in the high levels. I didnt play EQ since 2003 while I was playing CoH not long ago.
As to the "real end game" content, don't hype yourself to much, those devs look at Lineage II.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'll admit the community has recycled multiple times and fairly quickly too...because after like 1-2 or 3 months and a majority of players on my friends list are gone...This game is casual and I do get bored maybe even before 2 months is up... However, none of them left due to nerfs and some came back after some time... I just don't want ppl to get the impression that everyone is leaving because of the nerfs, because I believe it's mostly due to content and the casual approach of the game...
Just to clear things up...The greatest thing about this game right now is combat, community(grouping), and customization...However, the one word that really describes this game is "Community"...You're not gonna have fun if u don't group or have friends to play with, because that's what this game is built upon and greatly supports grouping...
As far as the recent stuff like pvp and others, I don't know very much about...I haven't renewed my subscription since January '05...However, I did play the game from the free play for I5 that old subscribers get once in awhile...So I've tried the game up to I5...The main thing I'm not liking about the updates is that every update seems to have a new zone, but fighting still feels the same between different enemies and zones...It's like people are just moving into new zones and abandoning old ones...I wish they would either flesh/add more to the old zones or rework the repetitive missions instead....
Ive heard there are many powerful monsters in the game that requires other people to help you battle them. Try fighting those kinds of monsters. Im not sure if they actually exist, because i don't have the game, but I know someone who does.
Power level lowbs.
Kill hamidon.
Get all the badges.
Get all the accolades.
Finish all the missions.
Do the Tf's.
Hold costume competitions at Atlas Park.
Do some arena matches.
Farm lvl 53 SO's.
Once you have hit 50, there isn't really any opportunity for further hero development. Pretty soon after this most people either quit or start a new one.
Watch out for the nerfs this game is not designed for long term players.
I wouldn't say I left Paragon City due to the nerfs, but I will say I won't be returning because of them.
"The Devs have said that they don't plan on any more nerfs..."
There is only so many times you can say that and still be believable. This is what? the 6th?
jdun1
1. You're hardly on topic
2. You're just assuming huge nerfs...I practically said there will be some nerfs/tweaks...Besides that, noone ever even mentions the positives they add in...
3. No upper level content for almost 2 years is totally irrelevent with now...since they've been stating that lv. 60 content is coming soon...And upper level contents have been coming...As far as future contents beyond what is mentioned, I have no clue if they're going back to give COV more variety of zones/missions/contents or going on and furthering the later levels of both games...
4. I don't remember WOW's contents coming out that quickly...And if u think WOW is better, that's still just opinion...(And I like COH better than WOW)...in both games I don't feel immersed in the content and storyline, but I find COH more fun to play...I'll admit WOW has much much more content, but they do feel repetitive/boring as stuffs in COH as well...And when u talk about sheer # of players, poll shows ppl are much more interested in fantasy than sci-fi...Blizzard has many fans, Cryptic has just begun...WOW has more content than COH, but they're different genres and are quite different in play style, so it's really up to what players prefer...
5. There are fanboys...And there's the opposite of that, but I don't know what they're called...And u appear very much to be that "opposite"...Your post is very one-sided... And it doesn't even answers the questions made by the thread starter...
And just to restate what COH is all about as what I said somewhere else... COH/COV is based alot on "community"...You won't like it very much if u don't like teaming, because that's the emphasis of this game...
I'm sorry but that's what I consider tweaking...That nerf is hardly anywhere near the magnitude of I5 or ED...
lv. 60 content stuff has been said to be in I7 or I8...It's likely to be in I8 more though...I'm not going to bother finding it...It's been atleast a couple of days or weeks , but I remember it being said...As far as I'm concerned u can find it yourself or don't believe, whatever...Or if someone else could confirm it?
WOW getting new contents every month is not a fact...It took atleast 2-3 months or more...And if u would reread, there's nowhere that I said that was an opinion...Thinking WOW is better(ie more fun) than COH is an opinion...And I've played WOW, and as I said, I enjoy COH more...Reason why? COMMUNITY and the combat system in COH is more interactive than WOW's...That's my definition of better...(more players that enjoy WOW = fact...but better = opinion)
In all honesty I never really see a difference in community from game to game. As long as there are enough players online, like minded people attract. Even really bad games have lots of nice players. When players get thin on the ground it all turns rather sour as people who dislike eachother by nature are drawn closer to together.
COH has the best teamfinding tools in any game I have ever played. But just as many griefers, spammers, lamers and teenagers as any other subscription game.
I also am assuming there will be nerfs.
COH has a 100% consistent track record of doing this each update. With this in mind, I don't think it's unreasonable to make such a prediction.
I assume that some of the COV players will work out how to level up fast, and also how to help their friends level up fast. This may just hinge on superior tactics/reflexs and insiomnia but which ever AT is doing it, will get nerfed.
Some whinger will be sure that the only reason people are higher level than him is that they are either hackers or playing an uber build, and he will cry about it. The dev's will do the maths, and nerf as fast as they can to maintain subscribers.
I see no reason to assume any different.
I'm pretty sure Warcraft has added stuff every month I have played. I find Warcrafts combat symtem much more demanding and engossing than COH's. I enjoyed COH combat, but it's not really in Warcrafts league. Different games have different strengths. For me, COH is it's costumes and Team tools.
You can chat with people, or look at them. That is what i am using my time on.
"OH he got a red mustage". COOOL.
WoW combat system is simpler and longer than CoH combat system.
Taking longer to kill (or die) a mob reduce significantly the localisation tactical aspect. WoW combat system is not even within a mile of CoH as far as dynamic and tactical considerations comme into play. Strategy wise (character developpment long term choices are strategies) many games are more developped than CoH but we still get a few keys elements. Having to deal with trains of 20 minions (and vanquishing them) is an exceptionnal situation in WoW. In CoH, every group encounter starts with such a big number of mobs. If you don't see more than button mashing in CoH, maybe you don't understand the implications. Some folks are unable to move away from old tactics they learnt, but to be efficient, you need to adapt, pulling is rarely a good option in CoH, as you prefer rush and retreat as needed, adapt, every choice you make under such pressure outmatch whatever WoW has. While in WoW you will have 20 encounters, I will have 100-200 of encounters for the same time in CoH, each requiring an understanding of the terrain, who engage who (sometimes you are jumped or just didnt see them) and what it implies.
Of course if you consider raiding, whatever is in WoW can't be worser than the Hamidon, but raiding (in a form that shaft all non-raiders) is a mistake and applying it on everyone like WoW is doing is certainly not improving a game.
EQ beat WoW on tacticals and Strategics levels, but it is a harsher game with a slower progression. WoW is a tutorial to a game like EQ.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I want proof your word is not good enough. Logic tells me otherwise that they will increase to lvl 60. They probably will increase CoV to 50 to come in-line with CoH but to say CoH will have its lvl increase to 60 while CoV stay 40 is hard to believe. Show me your proof.
The next thing you going say, dont worry it is a little tweak. It not a tweak it is a major nerf. Holding is very prevalent in this game then in other MMOG. That is probably one of the major reasons why PvP will not work in this game. To have mez protection lower is a major nerf to all melee characters in PvE and PvP. You get mez you die, not an opinion is it fact.
I play WoW not sure if you do but I do play WoW and I know that new contents comes every month or two. Thats not a opinion thats a fact.
You don't face mez all the time...In most cases u won't face any mez at all...Besides, before the nerf, those resist mez powers could take up from 6-9 mez before additional mez could go through...Now, what it's atleast up to 3 now?...If u fight a group with tons of mez, then 1) you're going way over your head 2) get a group 3) use inspirations 4) use some tactics instead of just running head in... 5) And there's always the additional acrobatics power pool...
For the level 60 issue...Who said COV wouldn't already be level 50?...COV is level 50 by I7...Since they were'nt planning to call the I6 an issue before...Maybe the level 60 content will be I8 or I9...And as I said, believe it or not your choice...
I agree that WoW combat is more demanding and tactical. Its not button smashing as in CoH. There are lots of options you can use and unlike CoH there three or more viable built in each class. Not only that WoW developers understand power synergy, ie power/spells work well together instead against each other.
Blizzard did not add anything to WoW for around 6, 7 months. The first content patch did not occur until about May and nothing significant until Battlegrounds (about a month later, if I recall). Previous to that there were plenty of complaints on both the EU and US forums about the amount of additions EQ2 was getting, while WoW was getting none. Since then they have added content regularly, but its been a dungeon, etc or tweaks, here and there. Nothing on the scale of new classes or entire zones.
Also WoW's combat system is idential to CoH's. ASWD to move, numeric keys to activate powers/spells. The only differences (aside from power affects) is the pace (CoH is quicker). WoW offers class diversifaction through traits. CoH/CoV offers it through power subsets for each AT (class), power pools and enhancements. Both games offer diversification within building a characters template. CoH actually has more options.
Also Blizzard are as clueless as any mmorpg company about changes to their game. They constantly tweak, nerf, etc. They totally screwed over Hunters and Warriors, for quite some time.
Preferring WoW is fair enough, but at least get your facts right.
"Also WoW's combat system is idential to CoH's"
The combat systems have many recognisable similarities and essentialy stick to the same principles. Ranged attacks, melee attacks, tanking and healing for example are all common to both. But that's where it ends.
Wow's AI are vastly superior, they are in a different league. The monsters you fight are smarter and more varied in their combat syles. I remember noticing, the first time I played Diablo, how smart the AI was compared to other games, how they would run off and get their mates or try to escape when damaged. In WOW, Blizzard have visibly maintained that lead in AI over their rivals.
When was the last time an unexpected patrol wiped out your party in COH?
The AI in COH is competetant. It's not special or challenging in any way but it doesn't run into walls*. It stands around and waits patiently to be killed.
The Aggro system in particular is rather more sophisticated in WoW. Controling the aggro is not as simple as just "taunting" or being the last person to hit an enemy. Each type of attack has a specific threat rating, and the effects are cumulative. Even healers present a "threat" and attract aggro form healing the party. Aggro ranges are level dependant making for a more intresting team dynamic and requiring different tactics entirely for the same situation when playing with lower levels in the group.
COH's simplistic combat is very enjoyable. To be able to dive into a group of enemy and mangle them all in combo of super destructive powermoves is fun. I might argue that COH's easy to master combat is a lot of fun, but it isn't as sophisticated as WoW's and I don't find it as challenging.
(*) On second thought, that's not quite true, it does run into walls.
"Also Blizzard are as clueless as any mmorpg company about changes to their game. They constantly tweak, nerf, etc. They totally screwed over Hunters and Warriors, for quite some time."
I don't see how one companies mistakes are mitigating to anothers. (Just because other people have fleas in their hair, doesn't mean I should put up with them in mine). Presumably if WoW has upset a load of it's players by nerfing, that is even MORE reason why COH staff should be aware of the problem, not a free lisence for them to do the same. MMO players don't like nerfs. When something is unwanted, it is unwanted.
Only seen 1 nerf in WOW so far, (for 1 hunter power). Wish I could say the same about COH. I'm not atttempting to tell you that WOW has never nerfed or doesn't nerf. There is at least a difference in scale and proportion between the two.
COH nerfs come with every update, not just the odd one, and while they have equally singled out just one or two classes to "balance" they are also willing to nerf everyone. As with AI and combat mechanics, CoH and WoW are in very different leagues when it comes to nerfing. In fact I have never played another MMO in CoH's league, they are the nerf masters of my game library. I have heard SWG was prety bad too, thats why I didn't buy it.
I say nerf whatever you need to. How fun is it for one build to be the end all? About as much fun as seeing thousands of rogues and Shamans in WOW.
The only thing that Nerfing does is make a certain group angry. But evens everyone out. At least that is what a nerf should do.
In WoW the nerfing runs rampant. Many of the nerfs are not discussed at all and are even left out of patch notes. This is where nerfing gets it's bad name.
I look forward to any Dev team achieving a balance, and you know what it may take 10 years to do so, but the fact that these teams work around the clock working equations and play testing is enough for me to believe that they want this game to succeed.
COH nerfed because of the implementtation of COV's which is something that should be expected. Personally I have a lvl 29 FF/Def and I have absolutely no problem soloing missions. It's actually very fun to do so and I get to use skills that I often overlook in a team setting.
Just because your AOE of fire is doing 2 less damage a second is no reason to give up on a vastly superior MMO.
If you like WoW, then go play it, it's fun for the first go round, but when you come back you will realize that a lot of their content is artificial. There are tons of quests where you go kill "x" of "y".
Heck most of the time spent in that game is doing tasks like picking stuff up off the ground and taking things from fallen foes. Then you can even put all those things that you clicked on together by clicking something else to make your own something that will be worse than the item that you picked up off of a foe.
Don't even let me get started on travel time in WoW. Talk about content, you can spend 30 minutes in the air flying to a destinition just to get there in time for your group leader to eat dinner.
Listen COH/COV is the most fun and action packed MMORPG out right now. It gets rid of all the hum drum from regular MMO's and in turn gives you a brilliant casual game.
After that, I don't need to say anything. You pretty much commit suicide over this. Diablo AI was barely average. When Diablo was out, SSI and Black Isles where defining what AI combat was. Diablo devs are good fellows and a good team, but most of them would not even consider stating such lies.
Again, if you don't understand the tactical implication of a combat, there is nothing I can do to help you. You are prolly lucky and get good groups most of the time and they prolly save you until you start bitching about nonsense and there, you are left groupless. You are prolly the guy who keep insisting that the group does this or that precise tactic no matter the situation and the group you join. Tactics need to adapt to the situation, a good tactic in a situation can be a direct way to your grave in another situation and the tactic you use there would be slow and dimwit in the first situation. If 2 guys are working alone in their corner, far from the group, it might be more efficient to let's it goes it natural course. Of course you need to give a good leadership so most folks remain in the core of the group, but those 2 guys on their corner might be doing fine and they may get their blast from this big challenge. Motivation and fun is something primordial. Does they hinder the group by been far? No. Of course there is a little more monsters for the 6 of you, but you can handle that and get more XP...while they also get you more XP. Again, everything depend on how it is done. I remember 1 day, back in early CoH, we group like 4 regens scrappers...I would not really call this a group, but it was fun, original and funny to say the least!
No matter how much I find an approach illogic, I always give it a try before I consider saying anything. If the approach work, no matter if it is less efficient, good with me. I am not really the most quiet and submissive follower...I am pretty much a negative leader no matter the group, if I don't make fun or the tactic is not working, you can expect me to do stuff my way.
Diablo success is due to...the Progression system. Most rivals are left way behind Diablo back then as far as the progression of the character is concerned. If Blizzard would still employs the real devs that create their success, maybe they would have understand that before taking the nerf path of a game like CoH (now I am clueless about the impact of the nerfs in WoW, I just try to sum the info I read from folks on this). PROGRESSION was Diablo success. They didn't even have a new story or new missions at harder level, just a still going on progression...
And some devs put nerfs that can't be compensated so you still consider you PROGRESS! Evolve. Diablo was good for it progression, the pace and the graphics. But the AI and everything else was...average as far as I am concerned.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You get patrols in CoH frequently, more so after i5. In Cov they are very common. Although rarely do they do anything more than spice up the combat. At least, for the group I play in. The AI is WoW also seems not that different from mobs in CoH. They stand around (or roam a predefined area) waiting for you to get into aggro range, then engadge. After which they rarely do anything, but either stand and fight or run. Happens in both games.
But anyway, the point was not that CoH is better than WoW, or WoW better than CoH. That will always be down to personal taste. However, we have a WoW fanboi in this thread that is trying to paint Blizzard and its game with a dimond encrusted hallow. That isn't true. Its an excellent game, but it had and does have its faults.
@grapes
WOW has some strengths COH has others.
I don't think COH has every strength and is better than every other game in every aspect.
It isn't.
You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about WOW. Get over it. It is another popular MMO, a lot of the people who like COH like WOW too. It is perhaps inevitable that COH and indeed any other MMO will get compared to WOW in discussion. It is the current market leader in mmo's and
COH excels in a few area's. AI is not one. Other people do it better.
You are prolly lucky and get good groups most of the time and they prolly save you until you start bitching about nonsense and there, you are left groupless. You are prolly the guy who keep insisting that the group does this or that precise tactic no matter the situation and the group you join
Are you basing your assumptions on your own experiences then? I can understand if, with a condescending attitude like your own, you often find yourself groupless for entirely different reasons. Tedious flames aside, I feel your comments on group tactics apply to every team game of any variety. The same team building skills are required in WOW, Counterstrike and also cricket. It is by no means just COH combat or even multiplayer video games that requires this.
8 man scrapper teams are fun. Nice fast pace, lots of oneupmanship. Really enjoyed playing in those also.
What SSI and Black Isle games are you refering to that had superior AI when Diablo came out? I think I have a Baldurs Gate game that might be Black Isle, (although that certainly wasn't around in the Diablo days), and some WW2 turn based tank game by SSI, that I rather enjoyed at the time, Steel Panthers. I didn't find the AI in either of those two games noteworthy.
Either way that Diablo game (now ten years old) has more sophisticated AI than COH has today. (Superior pathing and additional functions). Blizzard AI has progressed 4 generations from that code to get to it's current product. F.E.A.R. has my current favourite AI. Those ones are very very sophosticated.
I have seen patrols in COH (Neurons base always has one) they are barely noticeable. the mobs get all split up (poor pathing) and end up trickling into to the fight without ever wiping the party. I never found it to be a regular occourance, and I never saw it work well in COH. By comparison, in WoW you really have to pay attention to it or everyone dies. The pathing is impecable, mobs of soldiers march along sometimes very complex patrol routes in perfect formation. Patrols are not just found in every area of every instance, but also throughout the rest of the areas too.
That's not say that I find COH AI unenjoyable. The AI works. It fights. I like beating it. That's just to say that I find the AI in WOW to be more sophisticated, making the combat more challenging than in COH.
This is one of the reasons that for me, CoH's combat system is not noteworthy. Functional, enjoyable, but not a highpoint.
Nice hypocritical post, you made there. The only person with issues is you!!!!
This isn't about which is better. Its about what is true and what isn't. Also yes, plenty of people like both games. I happen to be one of them.
Both games have their strengths and weakness. Just because you prefer WoW doesn't make it superior. Its always down to personal taste, on an individual bases. However, what was posted by Jdun1 was WoW fanboi'ism and inaccurate.
It doesn't matter what you prefer. WOW AI is more sophoisaticated than COH AI.
I have made the effort to explain to you the particuler functions that WOW AI has and COH doesn't.
I am not concerned with whether or not WOW is a better game than COH or not. This is something you continually refer to in many of your posts in this threads and others, but that I don't in any of mine.
This is an MMO forum, when comparisons are made, such as "COH has the best combat system in any game bla bla" don't be upset if I mention WOW as having a better one. I think it does and have taken the effort to explain my reasoning in detail. If you choose to ignore that reasoning in favour a simple flame, you are of course allowed.
You are welcome to explain to me why you think COH comabt system is more advanced or even just superior to that of WoW or any other game you care to mention. I am intrested in your opinion. Your repeated red herrings of WoW vs CoH jihads don't really intrest me so much.
No, I just mention WoW when someone posts something misguiding. You are entitled to your opion over the AI and because it a personal one it can't really be argued with. However, if someone posts something inaccuate, etc then its a different matter.
Personally, I feel WoW has more depth to it than CoH or CoV. Probably because its a more imersive world. Definitly not because of the content. That is to indifferent and both are enjoyable. However, I'd class the combat and mob AI of the two games very similar, just with CoH/CoV being faster paced. I also feel WoW has a lesser replayability factor, but that may just be my taste. I hate playing a horde, as I like my characters to not be uglies and only really enjoy the hunter and rogue classes. Although to be fair, I also don't enjoy playing that many of CoH/CoV's ATs. Anway, as for WoW I'm looking forward to the expantion, as being a Blood Elf opens up a lot of content I'd be interested in. For CoH/CoV, the next issue.
I like the course of which, this topic has taken. I guess there is not much to say, regarding the origin of this post. I guess this has been explained in some of the earlier posts in here. So allow me to add my own opinions and experiences to the discussion at hand.
Similarities between WoW and CoH.
I see, that one thing you guys talk a lot about, or try to is the similarities between WoW and CoH. What makes the one game better than the other.Well, they are both MMORPGs. They both requier the player to log in and create a char/avatar/toon...or whatever. To go into further details regarding the obvious similarities between the two:
We have the controls and the views. Both are build more or less upon grouping up with fellow players and fight against the ingame AI. And in other situations PvP.
But what I find more interesting, and more relevant, are the considerable differences between these two games.
CoH (when I say CoH I also say CoV) is a casual game. Casual in the meaning, that it is easy to start with, the storyline is not that deep, dependant on how geeky you are, and how much behind-the-scenes comics and novels you read. But to the normal gamer, they will feel, that the depths of CoH is not as wide and deep as of the Warcraft universe. This is both obvious and natural. Warcraft has exsisted for several years longer than CoH, and includes a number of other titles, telling the Warcraft storyline.
WoW is not a casual game. Don't get me wrong now, I know a lot of players out there play the game very casual. What would you expect from a game with almost 5 million subscribers. My point is, that WoW offers a lot more depth than CoH apparently does. And this is because of the major differences between these to games. WoW is loaded with end-game instances and especially items. This is the one, big, fat, difference between the two games, and this is where a lot of players choose one over another.
Both CoH and WoW is about character development. But CoH differs from WoW because of the wide range of possibilities regarding character creation and diversification. From an objective point of view one might say, that in CoH a player strives to be unique. Creating a unique costume. This is one of the bearing pillars of CoH. In WoW, the players all strive to attain the most powerful items. Ending up looking just like each other. This shows how the players of these two games have different values. When you play WoW you want to have a powerful character with all the items and all. In CoH you want to take on the whole world with your own, unique superhero. At least, that is the intention.
CoH offers a lot more in roleplaying than WoW does. The good guy always wins which CoH clearly suggests (vice versa w. CoV). Combat-wise CoH often is a stroll in the park. I'm not saying it is easier or simpler. That's not my point. WoW offers a more complex combat-interface. That would be ones immediate impression at least. The settings in WoW is build up, so the party must progress with the greatest care if they wish to succeed. In CoH I have often seen the Team being split up in all corners of the map, with Sprint activated. I might be socializing with the wrong crowd since I encounter this, but I have rarely seen this in WoW. What I am trying to say is, that CoH (as already stated) is a very fast-paced action MMO. Where WoW progresses a little slower.
But this isn't really about WoW or CoH being the better game. It's purely about taste. What do you prefer? Running around looking exactly like the other lvl 60 human warrior with full set of Might or parts of Wrath? And every warrior running around with Spinal Reaper and the exact sam enchantment as the other guy has? If this doesn't matter but you get your highs from doing massive 40-man raids in MC and BWL etc. That's entirely up to you. If you instead enjoy taking the role as a superhero in a vivid city like in the comics, with your own costume and stuff. That's also ok.
My point is, CoH and WoW offers so different end-game material, pace and action that they can only be compared on very few areas. Areas that to my awarenes are pretty irrelevant to the quilities of the game. The goals of the two games, besides from entertaining the player, are too different.
You are free to talk all you want about AI difficulty and stuff. But in my honest opinion. The AI levels in both WoW and CoH are just as they ought to be. The focus is not always on how hard the computer is to beat. It depends on the setting of the game. And I find both AI's to offer a fair challenge what so ever.
What goes for both games, combat and content-wise. You can get as much out of the game as you wish. It's up to the player to set the limitations. In CoH and WoW one can focus a lot on combat. Making the right tactic for the right situation. That's one goal from many others to pursue. It's what you make yourself that you will get back.
Themewise COH is my favourite. As much as I like WoW, and marvel at it's technical excellence and innovaton, it's just another fantasy bash.
I agree with what you were both saying about wow's depth. I feel most of it's depth resides in it's content. It's a bigger game. more classes, more areas, more stuff, more options. Bla bla.
Customisable appearance is not a high order in WOW, it's too bound up in all the equipment. CoH really holds the costume crown in any game i have ever seen. Eve-online might take a not particularly close second for me.
Outside of the cosmetiques, I don't find COH particularly customisable at all. You have a very few choices of powers hero types and upgrades. I commonly bump into identically developed heroes to myself.
CoH's combat system, is less than advanced or sophistcated, but it's simplicity is part of it's beauty. Fights are rarely challenging, and more often won by weight of numbers than any particular skill on the players part. It's low stress stuff.
Roleplay. I see a lot more people "roleplaying" in WoW. A lot more. The fantasy theme doesn't grip me personally, but people adopt the roles and allow it to affect their gameplay. The hero role in COH is something I enjoy, if you see someone in a fight or in trouble, you join in. In WoW you join in if they are the same faction as you. In other mmo's I have played people just stand by and watch you die a lot.
How hard the AI is to beat is not what I care about, as I pointed out, even though COH Ai walks into walls and is essentially monotaxic, it fullfils it's functon. While i enjoy mastering a combat challenge, i gree that combat is just one facet of the game. Only a fraction of the time I am logged into a server is spent fighting, and often that fighting is just out of routine, and the general social chatter is the priority.
The difference in WOW Ai is the level of sophistication. Wow is some very advanced code. I take pleasure in the technical achievement and the advancement of computer science. Be it the new rfraction effects in Doom 3, the server load of Eve the AI sophistry of F.E.A.R., the functionailty of the auction house in Warcraft or the AI economy of X3.
Warcraft is a technically refined peice of software. I appreciate it in the same way as I enjoy the craft involved involved a masterpiece or the engineering in a Lexus. COH doesn't impress me in any of those ways.
@grapes
Yes it merely my opinion that the Ai in WoW is more sophisticated than the AI on COH. Merely my opinion, but it's not just my opinion. I'm willing to bet it is also yours and anybody else who has paid it any particular attention. I don't really see this a contentious issue.
With regards to coming back to Warcraft, I have come back to COH and Warcraft in my time. Warcraft as mentioned has a lot more for maxxed level characters to do, and ways for their continued development so it takes longer for me to leave in the first place, but I don't have the same level of attachement to my Warcaft hero as I do my CoH hero.
I have played about as much of Warcraft as I wish to for the forseable future now, I intend to let my sub slide and play other things. When I get back there may or maynot be an expansion pack or some new content to try. I haven't exactly seen it all yet as it is. This will be the second time I have let it drop.
With COH I left the first time because I had seen/done everything. The second time round it was fun to catch up with old friends, but the game hadn't progressed (except for a mild but reconiseable nerfing and the population was substantially less).
The major difference for me, is that I expect to go back to playing Warcraft in the future, but don't really plan on it with COH. The nerfs really penalise returning players.
No, my opinion on WoW and CoH AI is that there is very little difference. Especially after i5. Granted your opinion may not be just your own, but then others will share a different opinion to. Swings and roundabouts, its the way of life.
WoW doesn't really add that much to keep me interested long term to be honest. They don't add enough new content with their patches, usually just one or two things. While CoH does, as each issue contains major additions.
WoW AI is extremely limited.
I dunno what more to say. You are such a fanbois. I am blasting CoH most of the time. But comparing Blizzard AI to a MUCH superior AI is a complete waste of time. I found myself surprised and wondering what to do sometimes in CoH, like I was a little in EQ(EQ went back and forth a lot). In WoW, it is always clear what I need to do, easy to do, easy to access...the AI is predictable. In CoH the first time I meet a Sapper I was surprised, I was also surprised the first time I was ambushed and still am. In combat I am often surprised and off guard in CoH, granted I play at relentless and charge non-stop as soon as I can (which is never more than 10 seconds delay), but even doing so in WoW won't leave me off guard, I would still be browsing throught their encounters.
You sir have an OPINION about Blizzards's AI (like many other customers, if a majority think in a way it doesn't make that right because it is the majority), base it on facts and we will talk.
Baldur's Gate and Torments for example where challenging your intellect. In Diablo, I was sleeping and gaze throught the whole game without any intellect challenge. Same happens in every Blizzard products. I really don't know what more to say. You enjoy saying grass is the best vegetable for a human, well, I ain't going to argue more about that. The Dark Queen of Krynn (and any gold box released by SSI) AI was outmatching Diablo...and this is a 20 years old game! Diablo was never challenging. Oh, those SSI products are in a grid and not in real time, it is still a better AI and I don't care which represent more or less work, I care about the FUN and the Challenge as far as AI is concerned...some FUN in Diablo, but no real challenge. The closest thing to challenge in Diablo was the big waiting thing when you zone at 1 place, it kill you (the first time only) and you drop your gear at it feets. But you come back knowing what to do and you take the big larva in no time. That is very poor challenge, and AI without challenge is nothing.
As for my dislike of WoW, I don't dislike WoW or Blizzard, I dislike their dimwit following Afterlife opinion, which is their greatest mistake. Again this has nothing to do with their lowly AI.
I dunno, maybe there is a gradation for AI, maybe there is many layers of AIs. Maybe for some level of human intelligence (not superior or inferior) there is different answer, but I am sorry, Blizzard is completely beside the point with me and I see throught what little they put very easily...while CoH surprise me from time to time, leave me off guard...of course I rush like a braindead bloodthirsty bastard from hell, but even if I do the same in WoW (as much as their very limited recovery allow it), they never get me off guard. CoH and CoV took me off guard at level 5 and ever since there is usually a few surprises waiting for me.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren