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Be careful what you wish for!
anarchyart
Member Posts: 5,378
Do any of you see the irony in the NGE?
All of you must admit that the SWG community has to be the most dissatisfied, outcrying, petition making group of ne'ercontents in the history of gaming, if not the world. Whether their cries of gaming injustice and marketing despotism are true or false, you must agree with my point.
Complaints of bugs, imbalances, exploits and the game not having that "Star Warsy" feel are commonplace and permeate the official forums, and have since soon after launch.
So SOE in an attempt to perform emergency bypass surgery on the evidently ailing game, now draw more ire and discontent from the already boisterous and dissatisfied community than ever before. Many look forward to the changes, but most disagree with the way in which the announcement was made and how the changes will be implemented: right after releasing and expansion and promising all kinds of improvements to existing classes which will now be wiped off the board.
I too disagree with implementing such wide sweeping changes so soon after releasing and expansion, but I wasn't one of the complainers. For those of you who were, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it and more!
Oh the irony of it all.
Comments
It might be easier for me to understand too, if I only had a couple months' experience with the game.
But I'm one of those that has been around for 3 years+, and after getting kicked in the balls enough times you learn to wear a cup.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I look at it this way.
If SOE isn't lying...
They've sold 1.5 million boxes of SWG. Right now, they have about 250,000 customers, once again, if they aren't lying.
Now this means one thing only (if they aren't lying
):
1.25 million players quit, and are now considered just whiners by the rest. That's an awful lot of whiners.
They can't all be wrong, sorry.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
It's just not the fault of the players. This is a highly paid, and tremendously large development team. If they can't do it right, it's not because the players did something wrong.
You know, people from Smedley to Koster on down spout off about how this is the players' game, as if it's everyone's fault but their own. But the argument has always been that SOE just doesn't listen to their community.
So when they come out and say things like, "Oh look, we are listening, another combat revamp to make the game more fun and immersive" they are missing the point entirely.
Like with the Jedi issue, they were following along on the surface, but they didn't have the wisdom to read between the lines. They didn't actually LISTEN by putting Jedi in the game. That's what I'm saying.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Has nothing to do with the suggestions or issues complained about. Its all about the money and just how much more they can cheat out of the fanbois.
Xbox 360 and PS3. That is where its going. PC Players no longer matter anymore or they wouldnt be ignored so hard now.
PB32
hehe,i am(was) also one of the "outcrying...group",a minority,"only about fifty players are unable to adapt" or whatever the infamous quotes were saying
the continual complaining on the forums and elsewhere for me is an indicator that the game is foul,the people are playing it because there seems to be a heavy demand for a swg-mmoRPG.Alright,there are haters and whiners in every game,but the dimension in swg is....well,not a problem,only about fifty players?(smedley said everybody is happy?...)
is here a discrepancy?is someone lying?is something weird?how does SOE communicate with that *minority*?ignore?tell them how much fun everything is and it's their own fault that they don't *feel* the fun? questions over questions...why a cu2 when cu1 was so much fun and that successful?
SOE must have known that with that drastic changes they declared war on (large)parts of THEIR community.SOE should have had a plan for that case that some players wouldnt find it funny.They should try to talk nice to THEIR customers and not blame them.
the real tragedy here is that they pissed off nice people,not *l33t-kiddies* that play it maybe for a few months,but long time customers,men,women,fathers,mothers,whole families.They dont hop around all the existing mmorpg's,they choose one and stay and start a relaxing virtual life.and then they are told to "f**k off".(after purchasing ToOW of course...)-this is my personal point of view.
gameplay may change....wont you be annoyed to log in someday and see star wars legoland?ok,you may say "good bye" and hop somewhere else.swg is no mmog anymore,this would require a "PERSISTANT world",yes,what i have heard the graphics are the same....it has turned into some weird experiment and the happy customers (best under 14,they tend to be uncritical) pay it.
so,please dont blame the customers,SOE worked really hard to achieve the poor state of the (forum-)communtity-don't underestimate the role they play!
Its really all down to one main issue.
The generation x crowd (me and my fellow 28-38 group) have followed the game for 5+ years. All the way back during alpha testing we were there gobbling up every bit of info we could on this game.
We were the target market for this game obviously. The developers knew this too and designed a sophisticated mmorpg for us. One where blowing stuff up wasnt the main focus yah. Truly a remarkable feat to have a player run economy based on player made goods.
Yes the game launched with issues and bugs. Yet the game still grew to 400k players. Most of which were obviously generation x types.
The game started to lose its core players once SOE started listening to outside influence...namely kids. Lets face it, gen xers arent the game fanatics like the 12-17 crowd is. So SOE started looking to them to find out what appealed to them. And what appealed to the kids was jedi jedi jedi.
SOE introduced the holocrons and dumped permadeath to name a few soft changes to make the game easier. Heck they even did some really stupid things like add points of interest in our datapad. Yeah, must have been too tough to actually explore so lets just give it to the players duh.
Once these changes went into effect, the game population started to drop dramatically. It hovered around 250k players since then and even a CU and 2 expansions couldnt bring the numbers up. Why, because while SOE sent out mailers to its ORIGINAL target market inviting them back they continued to make changes only a kid could love.
And today you see whats happening on the forums. Kids stating how great the NGE is and how glad they are that greedy crafters are finally getting what they deserve. And then you have the vet gen xers who are stunned by the many changes that they completely hate.
Until SOE decides who they want to please, the game will never succeed.
Do you want to know why SWG players are so vocal. Because SWG has been only partially working since launch. Professions were neglected or ended up broken. Bugs that existed since beta are still there and SOE created more later and neglects to fix them. Combat has actually sucked since day 1 and SOE finally realizes this(which is why they are redoing the combat for NGE). SWG players are always miffed because SOE isn't dilevering a total package. SWG for the longest time has been more about micro-managing the games player cites and economy almost since day one considering everything else is so screwed up. Maybe that is why many people say if you like crafting and role playing then SWG might be the game for you.
I played for 2+ years(well basically since launch). So I do have some knowledge of what I'm talking about. SWG players want a better game, but SOE doesn't fix things with a scapel they use a chainssaw. Just look at what they are doing when the NGE goes live. Crafting will basically be dead. Entertainers will not be needed. They are literally removing some professions. They are messing with the entire game from top to bottom instead of just fixing what is broken.
Ask any player and they tell you straight up. All SOE really needed to was add more story driven Star Wars flavored quest, fix the GCW(which they have neglected forever) and do some minor adjustments to the combat, and fix all the neglected bugs in the game that have been there for so long.
Instead SOE is going in and rewriting the game from the ground up. They are taking something that could be fixed with a few minor additions and fixes, and still keep the same game that allthe current players are use to. Instead we're getting a whole new game.
On top of that the NGE is basically in Alpha stage. it is bugging, laggy and so not done in many other areas like GUI, combat, loot tables, proper testing of the new condensed classes. NGE is not being implemented right and it is not even close to being ready to go live. I actually like some of it, but no in its current state. Don't say, "well give the developers time to fix stuff as you play." First we have, we've been doing that for over 2 years. Second, what's to say SOE won't pull this crap again and decide it isn't working out and do it all over again.
In my opinion SOE should continue testing, refining and tweaking for at least 6 to 8 months. <-- That is what many, many others are saying as well. This will give them time to make it the SWG we all want to play.
So SOE is rushing the launch of the NGE and I have all ready predicted that in two months SWG will be worse off than it is now. I stand but what I have said, based on my own experience with SOE and previous gaming experience. I wasn't wrong with AC2, E&B, nor was I wrong with Shadowbane. I'll be right about SWG, because all the signs are there and SOE is following the path that will lead SWG into the abyss.
If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it, but I don't think I am.
Oh and anotehr game SOE totally screwed up was Planetside. My most favorite game in the whole world. I played it since launch up until about a month ago. They killed that game and they are definately going to kill SWG with what they have planned.
All comments are duly noted and largely, I agree.
However, I finally got on TC tonight and tried it for myself. And I LOVE it! Now I know, it's not the game you all grew to know and love, it is a brand new game and it's fun!
I finally got on TC and made a character and quickly ran through the first part of the tutorial and ran to the ramp on the falcon prepared to just stand there and listen to han saying how the place is gonna blow, and I was quickly whisked into a slick cut scene of the Falcon finally blowing that popsicle stand!
You then are on board the almighty falcon, and although it was a short part of the game, I couldn't help loving being there on board the millenium falcon. You have to climb up the ladder and take out some tie fighters in the turret while Chewie fixes the warp drive hehe I know it's probably cheesy but I can't help it, I loved it.
Then another slick cut scene that really looks great of you landing on the space station that Han the ever capitalistic smuggler was paid to take you. I then report to the Officer trainer and get my first mission. I really loved being in a brand new place and there's a cantina in the center blaring yours and my favorite space age bar song. Then it was off to the spaceflight trainer where you are issued a ship and off into space to fly to your first mission. Thus JTL being free, you really do need it just to do the tutorial. It's sweet I don't care what any pessimists say, they made JTL free and I could care less if I already paid for it, but then I'm a rich guy who gets 10 bucks an hour.
If you're never gonna play again then just ignore me and keep hating sony, but if you intend to give it a try you're gonna love it! Both of the two missions I received had items and cash as rewards, and I really love having a purpose. I'm going to be playing this game for sure, I just cancelled CoVillains as I've made up my mind.
I know it happened in probably the worst way possible for many of you, but I'm finally getting a Star Wars MMORPG! And cmon let's face it, killing bols for days on end was NOT Star Warsy.
EDIT: and sorry Teala, I really respect you, but it's gonna rock!!
ive been playing for two years as well, and let me tell you ... perhaps im paranoid but i cant see how anyone is praising the changes, i immedietely think they are agents of SOE implementing positive input into gaming sites like this to try and manipulate peoples decisons regarding joining the game ...
the game quite frankly sucks at this moment .. the quests even under the NGE are boring and repetitive .. there is NO dungeons or caves or any special areas worth a damn .. and group mechanics within dungeons or within the free range environment SUCK ... its a soloist game where you are FORCED to group ... and developers think that makes it fun .. they have no idea how to create inter-dependency between classes or how to even construct any semblence of complex combat mechanics ..
right now its stuck between a half-a$$ed first person shooter and an MMO .. and its sub-par for BOTH genres ...targeting is ridiculous .. 60 to 70% of the player base is going jedi ... and the graphics ( which were the best part of the game_ are now outdated as we see the new mmo's come out ...
the game has nothing to offer anymore except ONE thing .. and this ONE thing is what might keep it alive .. the fact its based on starwars .,, and there are no other star wars MMO's out for people to join ....
anyone who joins now will be paying 15$ a month to beta test a game which is being ported to playstation 3 , and seeing it obsolescence finally start to show i doubt it will catch on with the console crowd ...
SOE and especially lucas arts contionue to take star wars fans for a ride... taking their money and turning out crap ...
lucas is not new to this however ... he has been turning out whatever crap he can sell to fans for years ( THX VHS movies ... the THX DVD movies ... "special edition trilogy on DVD" the collectors DVD set ... now the new 3d versions are coming out".. and star wars fans being as addicted to the fantasy as they are keep buying the crap ...
P.S. and this is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans ever .. >ME< ... but it doesnt mean im not smart enough to see it
P.P.S. and heres advice to anyone looking for an MMO to play .. NEVER .. i repeat NEVER play an MMO thats based on cult fiction or fantasy which has a huge fan base ... because for a game like that .. as SWG shows .. it can be complete CRAP and yet the fans will still subscribe to it .. they company doesnt have to make a great game to promote it and usually knowing this .. get very lazy when planning/producing/designing it ...
an MMO which is set in its ownb world however .. HAS to be a great game in order to suceed these days admist all the CULT FICTION games .. such as matrix .. lord of the rings .. and star wars
SOE/LA have continually implemented systems that went waaaay over what would've been required. By doing so each time the developers created more problems then the previous system and creating even more animosity in the community.
The CU is a great example. Yes the prior combat system needed some tweaks, but definitely not the complete overhaul that it was. SOE/LA could've done just as well by nerfing armor and buffs, and providing counter measures for CMs. Instead we got a system that not only affected combat, but also crafting and entertainment.
It's like asking for mayo on your sandwich and getting a pizza back. Sure the pizza may be great, but fokker I ordered a sandwich! Lol.
Also, my guess is that SOE/LA were going to move forward with the NGE regardless of community requests for change.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
That's what I'm hoping AA.
I think for myself, and as a thinker I come to conclusions based upon the facts presented to me.
"We are making the game immersive" is the only fact worth mentioning, if it's actually true.
Really I don't care what they do to combat as long as they provide fun game play. And fun game play is not necessarily in the combat method.
In a couple days I will be re-upping my account and will see first-hand what they have done. THEN I will reach a conclusion.
If that conclusion is positive right out of the gate from the Test Center, then they have successfully saved this game from the junk pile. If that conclusion is negative, then they have killed it.
All of this has to do with content within the profession itself. With the new professional purpose across the board, this SHOULD be a successful thing. But again, this depends entirely upon the influence of Koster on the end-product. Those who have been satisfied in the past with the concept of "make your own content" can go screw themselves lol.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
The original system was a great system that I almost deem worthy of trying.
The CU was a great system, but once you play EQ2 and you know you don't like it, you don't play it.
Dunno what they are working on, but I expect a great deal of work and quality. No matter how much you complains, those devs work pretty hard and pretty well. They may have troubles to grasp a good vision, but who doesn't (beside me of course niak niak niak)?
See, SoE have a patch mentality and it is not a bad mentality, it means they are going to do more even if it means more bugs and more patchs. In the case of a MMO, this is the best way to get the best MMO ever. Some cry babies (IE Afterlife & sons) want a perfectly tested product, which means less content, less stuff to chew on (raiding would not even exist in MMOs if there was not a company who try to put a few dragons and try a new gameplay). I rather see bugs and more, if we enjoy an aspect enough, SoE will "correct" the bugs. I can't bear an alpha stage myself, but the quality of what they release is always at least beta...I rather have twice the content in beta form than have half and tested (ala WoW) and be done and over with it in no time. More content, more stuff, more projects = more opportunities to show them what we want. If they can't register the information and understand LDoN was the best EQ expension and the only reason it was not completely outdoing everything else is their sissy move and limit on what you can buy with points (Afterlifes & sons cry babies where crying for raid supremacy over grouping, something they don't deserve).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Man Alive Anofalye, I need more clients like yourself. Especially in times when I bork a release.
That's what Tests Servers are for Anofalye. I appluad new features and content being released. What I have a problem with are releases that routinely break mechanics and other systems. In the case of the NGE, not only will this release introduce new bugs, but it's also being dropped on the community with very little notice.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Exactly. I think the one of the main things here is that the veterans who think this change is for the worst, were mainly playing the game for the gameplay systems, and not necessarily because it was, or felt like, Star Wars (which is understandable). For those who actually wanted a true Star Wars experience, the game fell pretty flat.
The game is no loger Galaxies, that's for sure. It's now STAR WARS Galaxies.
Exactly. I think the one of the main things here is that the veterans who think this change is for the worst, were mainly playing the game for the gameplay systems, and not necessarily because it was, or felt like, Star Wars (which is understandable). For those who actually wanted a true Star Wars experience, the game fell pretty flat.
The game is no loger Galaxies, that's for sure. It's now STAR WARS Galaxies.
Adding in quests and content to make this thing more like Star Wars is one thing. But to totally revamp the entire thing to throw on a console doesnt make it anymore or less Star Wars. Not too mention I have yet to see anything that makes it more like Star Wars to me. In fact the sheer number of jedi running around on TC and that will ultimately be running around on live just screams "THIS ISNT STAR WARS!"
Also has anyone not yet noticed on the main forums alot of posts about weapons, armor, crystals, etc giving base stats or not working at all? Wanna know why? They are disabled because they havent been converted yet to the NGE. There was a post about commando weapons being disabled until AFTER this thing hits live. They did the samething at release. What does this tell me? This thing is far from ready. Not even close. If they still have to convert even the most basic of items over then they arent even close to being ready.
Kai
Yes, and I'm also the second shooter from the grassy gnoll.
I'm sorry for all those people whose game just got rewrote, but I played the NGE again this morning, this time for about 2 hours and a bit, and I am having a blast. I met up with some girl who has a CL80 Jedi and she was loving it too. We teamed up to fight the Hutt boss on the first station and it was fast,furiious and fun. Battle lasted all of 10 seconds but it was exciting hehe I'm loving the NGE.
I do sympathize with those who are long time players or CH's, but at least give me the respect of acknowledging that just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else should dislike it.
And just...how would you know there was a second shooter in the grassy knoll again?
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
And just...how would you know there was a second shooter in the grassy knoll again?
Because SWG haters told me. They're conspiracy experts..
Oh and Kai, hey I hear ya. But guess what? I'm not playing a Jedi I'm playing a commando. And now Jedi won't be the alpha class, a commando or bounty hunter will be just as strong as Jedi. Can't wait to go home tonight and play some more.
I especially love how the missions can be on another space station and you have to launch your ship and travel there. And space outside the first space station is very picturesque, expect a slew of screenshots tonight. Sorry to my EQ2 guild, I won't be back for a bit.
Looking forward to the screenies AA.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
well i never wished for any of this BS ive played for about a year and i have always been a ranger/rifleman or a ranger/TKM but not all of SWG is whiners just mainly the jedi/BHs if u look on the ranger forums there is a whole lot less 'whining' and a lot more conversations and maybe a few rants
but what i hate MOST about the new 'game' theyre putting in is that they make this whole new newb training thing that makes it seem SOOO much like star wars that ppl will be drawn to it but once they get out of the tutorial thing and end up in the REAL swg theyre going to hate it...
also they screwed up space combat/flight and now it sux too.....