Originally posted by Maadiah THIRTEEN pages on the question of Eve Ranked #1... I work in marketing and I'd like to thank each and every one of you guys, you are worth your collective weight in gold for all this free publicity! On another note, I think it's clear there is room for a completely NEW type of MMORPG Game....
WORLD OF MMORPG KRITIKS where you can create a flamboyant action-oriented mmorpg critic and duel with other linguistical juggernauts all intent on bending the Global MMORPG Review to their nefarious schemes... Skills/spells could be developed like - Statistical Bamboozlement - Relevance Derailment - Web of Repetitiousness - Defence of the Obvious - Mimicry of Intelligence .... any takers???
somebody's been reading the WoW forums...
its hasn't been 13 pages about eve being at #1. it got derailed shortly after it started.
Originally posted by Maadiah THIRTEEN pages on the question of Eve Ranked #1...I work in marketing and I'd like to thank each and every one of you guys, you are worth your collective weight in gold for all this free publicity!On another note, I think it's clear there is room for a completely NEW type of MMORPG Game.... WORLD OF MMORPG KRITIKS where you can create a flamboyant action-oriented mmorpg critic and duel with other linguistical juggernauts all intent on bending the Global MMORPG Review to their nefarious schemes...Skills/spells could be developed like- Statistical Bamboozlement - Relevance Derailment - Web of Repetitiousness - Defence of the Obvious - Mimicry of Intelligence.... any takers???
I bet you've already hit the lvl cap in Relevance derailment and Mimicry of Intelligence, right?
Originally posted by Maadiah THIRTEEN pages on the question of Eve Ranked #1... I work in marketing and I'd like to thank each and every one of you guys, you are worth your collective weight in gold for all this free publicity! On another note, I think it's clear there is room for a completely NEW type of MMORPG Game....
WORLD OF MMORPG KRITIKS where you can create a flamboyant action-oriented mmorpg critic and duel with other linguistical juggernauts all intent on bending the Global MMORPG Review to their nefarious schemes... Skills/spells could be developed like - Statistical Bamboozlement - Relevance Derailment - Web of Repetitiousness - Defence of the Obvious - Mimicry of Intelligence .... any takers???
I was thinking an MMORPG call PHoRUm Trolls where you have spells and skills like:
- L33T 5p34k - Flames of Derailment - Circular Logic - Nonsensical Statistic Spewing - Offensive #$$%$#% Smoke screen - Essence of Small Man Syndrome
I thought this argument would fizzle out around 9-10 pages in. seriously, why is this still being prolonged? What purpose is there to continue this discussion?
I think every point has been made and every point of interest clarified, can this just die now? There is no more reason for this to go on, being that this didn't even stay on topic that long before It was derailed...
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Greyhammer I just started up with EVE a few days ago. My major reason for doing so was because it was ranked number 1 on this site and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. (Oh, by the way, if you know ANYBODY that plays EVE, you can try it for 14 days FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE. Love trial periods, I do.) Not since I first logged on to EQ so many years ago has a game yanked me in like this.. and I've played most major MMOs since EQ. It's a very deep game... to the point it's almost not a game. VERY in depth. Let me explain. WOW: Oooh, look at this sword. I am trained in swords. This sword has higher DPS than that sword. Is good. Maybe if I put a Crusader Enchantment on it, the damage will be even higher. More good. Even looks cool. EVE: Oooh, look at this turret. How fast does it turn? What is its range? At what range does its accuracy really take a dive? What kind of shells does it fire? At what rate does it fire them? It is stronger against shields or armor? Can my ship's computer keep up with it, and does my reactor have enough power left to run it? Heck, do I have the skill to install this thing? Am I good enough at Gunnery to use it to its fullest potential? Oh... does it make a difference whether I load it with Iron, Uranium, or Antimatter? And is it a good choice to load up for the type of fight I am about to get into? I think you get my point. I'm not even going into the games remarkable economic system, the social aspects of a galaxy largely controlled by the players, the size of the freaking galaxy... all of that is amazing. The player base is by far the most mature and intelligent I have seen in a MMORPG, because those are the type of people required to play it. Think Cartoon Network vs. Science Channel. That may be the best thing about EVE. Like I said, I only started up the game a few days ago, and I've been playing it steadily since. IMHO, it deserves its Number 1 ranking. It's not for everyone... it's too open ended for some people. But if you can get over the initial learning curve, and you have some semblance of motivation, the game is extremely rewarding in ways that multiple level 60's and a high PVP ranking in WoW could never be. THAT is why its players love it.
lol!
yeah, lets oversimplify one game and generalize that its players are all young children.
then lets go into full detail about the other game and generalize that all its players are mature adults.
if you want to compare games, do it right and get your facts straight. i found plenty of a-holes during my trial of EVE and i found plenty of mature people in my time in WoW.
i guess in WoW, the weapons don't have speed modifiers, different types of ammo for guns/bows, range and range modifiers? oh wait, they do...
the only thing i'm doing is bringing counterpoints to the blatant EVE promotion and the bashing of any game thats not Eve by its fans. play what you like (i don't care if you like wow, eve, swg, whatever) just when you compare your game to another, get the facts right and don't blatantly give false info to sway people to your game or generalize that one game's fans are all just immature children or all mature adults, because its simply not true.
Hmmm... defensive, aren't we?
Listen... I play WoW. Have since release. Quite a lot, actually. Across three different server types and with multiple level 60's. I also have played a multitude of MMO's stretching back to EQL. I have played just about every MMO in the top ten list on this site.
I too have met many good people in WoW. Same with Guild Wars. But if I were to rank the three communities in maturity, it would be EVE>WoW>GW, with no hesitation.
And if you think the weapon parameters in WoW are anything like the parameters in EVE, you are mistaken. In WoW, you usually pick you path and stick with it. Say, a Warrior. He chooses Fury or MS. An MS Warrior in WoW usually sticks with the highest damage 2 hander he can, while a Fury Warrior usually sticks to faster weapons to build Fury. To go another route would be "swimming against the current". So you go look for the weapon with the biggest stat in whichever type you need, and you stick with that unless you have a better one. Now, there is a little bit of give there for PVP purposes, but not much.
Try to pigeonhole yourself like that in EVE and you are in for a rough time.
That's only one example, friend. WoW is fun... it's lighthearted, intense in group PVP, and has terrific atmosphere. But honestly, it doesn't take much critical thinking or analysis to play. You go where the quests tell you to go, you look for better stuff, and you try and gain levels up to 60.
EVE is a mature game. It doesn't tell you what to do beyond the newbie tutorial. You're just floating out there in space. You have to set your own goals, your own path, and go and actually do it. Yes, it can be hard and boring. That is where WoW has the edge... it's fun all they way through up until the endgame. But that is what separates the wheat from the chaff in EVE; the fact that is does get hard, and it can be boring. It weeds out a large majority of the... wait, I can't say that because it would be a "generalization". But... you get my drift.
The fact is, the gamespace filters its community. EVE is a particularly fine filter. WoW; not so much. I am not exaggerating when I say that the difference is very, very obvious.
To each their own... that is what I said. But I definitely think any MMO player would be remiss not to give EVE a shot.
The Greyhammer Timeline (Games Played > 1 month)
1999 >-- Everquest -- Dark Age of Camelot -- Everquest -- Anarchy Online -- Everquest -- Star Wars Galaxies -- Final Fantasy XI -- Everquest -- World of Warcraft -- Everquest 2 -- EVE Online --> 2006
Playing Navy Field (www.navyfield.com) and waiting for Vanguard.
Originally posted by Greyhammer Originally posted by Ashkent Originally posted by Greyhammer I just started up with EVE a few days ago. My major reason for doing so was because it was ranked number 1 on this site and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. (Oh, by the way, if you know ANYBODY that plays EVE, you can try it for 14 days FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE. Love trial periods, I do.) Not since I first logged on to EQ so many years ago has a game yanked me in like this.. and I've played most major MMOs since EQ. It's a very deep game... to the point it's almost not a game. VERY in depth. Let me explain. WOW: Oooh, look at this sword. I am trained in swords. This sword has higher DPS than that sword. Is good. Maybe if I put a Crusader Enchantment on it, the damage will be even higher. More good. Even looks cool. EVE: Oooh, look at this turret. How fast does it turn? What is its range? At what range does its accuracy really take a dive? What kind of shells does it fire? At what rate does it fire them? It is stronger against shields or armor? Can my ship's computer keep up with it, and does my reactor have enough power left to run it? Heck, do I have the skill to install this thing? Am I good enough at Gunnery to use it to its fullest potential? Oh... does it make a difference whether I load it with Iron, Uranium, or Antimatter? And is it a good choice to load up for the type of fight I am about to get into? I think you get my point. I'm not even going into the games remarkable economic system, the social aspects of a galaxy largely controlled by the players, the size of the freaking galaxy... all of that is amazing. The player base is by far the most mature and intelligent I have seen in a MMORPG, because those are the type of people required to play it. Think Cartoon Network vs. Science Channel. That may be the best thing about EVE. Like I said, I only started up the game a few days ago, and I've been playing it steadily since. IMHO, it deserves its Number 1 ranking. It's not for everyone... it's too open ended for some people. But if you can get over the initial learning curve, and you have some semblance of motivation, the game is extremely rewarding in ways that multiple level 60's and a high PVP ranking in WoW could never be. THAT is why its players love it. lol! yeah, lets oversimplify one game and generalize that its players are all young children. then lets go into full detail about the other game and generalize that all its players are mature adults. if you want to compare games, do it right and get your facts straight. i found plenty of a-holes during my trial of EVE and i found plenty of mature people in my time in WoW. i guess in WoW, the weapons don't have speed modifiers, different types of ammo for guns/bows, range and range modifiers? oh wait, they do... the only thing i'm doing is bringing counterpoints to the blatant EVE promotion and the bashing of any game thats not Eve by its fans. play what you like (i don't care if you like wow, eve, swg, whatever) just when you compare your game to another, get the facts right and don't blatantly give false info to sway people to your game or generalize that one game's fans are all just immature children or all mature adults, because its simply not true.
Hmmm... defensive, aren't we? Listen... I play WoW. Have since release. Quite a lot, actually. Across three different server types and with multiple level 60's. I also have played a multitude of MMO's stretching back to EQL. I have played just about every MMO in the top ten list on this site. I too have met many good people in WoW. Same with Guild Wars. But if I were to rank the three communities in maturity, it would be EVE>WoW>GW, with no hesitation. And if you think the weapon parameters in WoW are anything like the parameters in EVE, you are mistaken. In WoW, you usually pick you path and stick with it. Say, a Warrior. He chooses Fury or MS. An MS Warrior in WoW usually sticks with the highest damage 2 hander he can, while a Fury Warrior usually sticks to faster weapons to build Fury. To go another route would be "swimming against the current". So you go look for the weapon with the biggest stat in whichever type you need, and you stick with that unless you have a better one. Now, there is a little bit of give there for PVP purposes, but not much. Try to pigeonhole yourself like that in EVE and you are in for a rough time. That's only one example, friend. WoW is fun... it's lighthearted, intense in group PVP, and has terrific atmosphere. But honestly, it doesn't take much critical thinking or analysis to play. You go where the quests tell you to go, you look for better stuff, and you try and gain levels up to 60. EVE is a mature game. It doesn't tell you what to do beyond the newbie tutorial. You're just floating out there in space. You have to set your own goals, your own path, and go and actually do it. Yes, it can be hard and boring. That is where WoW has the edge... it's fun all they way through up until the endgame. But that is what separates the wheat from the chaff in EVE; the fact that is does get hard, and it can be boring. It weeds out a large majority of the... wait, I can't say that because it would be a "generalization". But... you get my drift. The fact is, the gamespace filters its community. EVE is a particularly fine filter. WoW; not so much. I am not exaggerating when I say that the difference is very, very obvious. To each their own... that is what I said. But I definitely think any MMO player would be remiss not to give EVE a shot.
no way man EVE is a intelegent game for intelegent people that dont like stupid kids games
and probobly the reason why EVE is # 1 because is comes up to all the good expectations of the perfict game
Originally posted by Greyhammer I just started up with EVE a few days ago. My major reason for doing so was because it was ranked number 1 on this site and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. (Oh, by the way, if you know ANYBODY that plays EVE, you can try it for 14 days FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE. Love trial periods, I do.) Not since I first logged on to EQ so many years ago has a game yanked me in like this.. and I've played most major MMOs since EQ. It's a very deep game... to the point it's almost not a game. VERY in depth. Let me explain. WOW: Oooh, look at this sword. I am trained in swords. This sword has higher DPS than that sword. Is good. Maybe if I put a Crusader Enchantment on it, the damage will be even higher. More good. Even looks cool. EVE: Oooh, look at this turret. How fast does it turn? What is its range? At what range does its accuracy really take a dive? What kind of shells does it fire? At what rate does it fire them? It is stronger against shields or armor? Can my ship's computer keep up with it, and does my reactor have enough power left to run it? Heck, do I have the skill to install this thing? Am I good enough at Gunnery to use it to its fullest potential? Oh... does it make a difference whether I load it with Iron, Uranium, or Antimatter? And is it a good choice to load up for the type of fight I am about to get into? I think you get my point. I'm not even going into the games remarkable economic system, the social aspects of a galaxy largely controlled by the players, the size of the freaking galaxy... all of that is amazing. The player base is by far the most mature and intelligent I have seen in a MMORPG, because those are the type of people required to play it. Think Cartoon Network vs. Science Channel. That may be the best thing about EVE. Like I said, I only started up the game a few days ago, and I've been playing it steadily since. IMHO, it deserves its Number 1 ranking. It's not for everyone... it's too open ended for some people. But if you can get over the initial learning curve, and you have some semblance of motivation, the game is extremely rewarding in ways that multiple level 60's and a high PVP ranking in WoW could never be. THAT is why its players love it.
lol! yeah, lets oversimplify one game and generalize that its players are all young children. then lets go into full detail about the other game and generalize that all its players are mature adults. if you want to compare games, do it right and get your facts straight. i found plenty of a-holes during my trial of EVE and i found plenty of mature people in my time in WoW. i guess in WoW, the weapons don't have speed modifiers, different types of ammo for guns/bows, range and range modifiers? oh wait, they do... the only thing i'm doing is bringing counterpoints to the blatant EVE promotion and the bashing of any game thats not Eve by its fans. play what you like (i don't care if you like wow, eve, swg, whatever) just when you compare your game to another, get the facts right and don't blatantly give false info to sway people to your game or generalize that one game's fans are all just immature children or all mature adults, because its simply not true.
Hmmm... defensive, aren't we? Listen... I play WoW. Have since release. Quite a lot, actually. Across three different server types and with multiple level 60's. I also have played a multitude of MMO's stretching back to EQL. I have played just about every MMO in the top ten list on this site. I too have met many good people in WoW. Same with Guild Wars. But if I were to rank the three communities in maturity, it would be EVE>WoW>GW, with no hesitation. And if you think the weapon parameters in WoW are anything like the parameters in EVE, you are mistaken. In WoW, you usually pick you path and stick with it. Say, a Warrior. He chooses Fury or MS. An MS Warrior in WoW usually sticks with the highest damage 2 hander he can, while a Fury Warrior usually sticks to faster weapons to build Fury. To go another route would be "swimming against the current". So you go look for the weapon with the biggest stat in whichever type you need, and you stick with that unless you have a better one. Now, there is a little bit of give there for PVP purposes, but not much. Try to pigeonhole yourself like that in EVE and you are in for a rough time. That's only one example, friend. WoW is fun... it's lighthearted, intense in group PVP, and has terrific atmosphere. But honestly, it doesn't take much critical thinking or analysis to play. You go where the quests tell you to go, you look for better stuff, and you try and gain levels up to 60. EVE is a mature game. It doesn't tell you what to do beyond the newbie tutorial. You're just floating out there in space. You have to set your own goals, your own path, and go and actually do it. Yes, it can be hard and boring. That is where WoW has the edge... it's fun all they way through up until the endgame. But that is what separates the wheat from the chaff in EVE; the fact that is does get hard, and it can be boring. It weeds out a large majority of the... wait, I can't say that because it would be a "generalization". But... you get my drift. The fact is, the gamespace filters its community. EVE is a particularly fine filter. WoW; not so much. I am not exaggerating when I say that the difference is very, very obvious. To each their own... that is what I said. But I definitely think any MMO player would be remiss not to give EVE a shot.
no way man EVE is a intelegent game for intelegent people that dont like stupid kids games
and probobly the reason why EVE is # 1 because is comes up to all the good expectations of the perfict game
Originally posted by Greyhammer I just started up with EVE a few days ago. My major reason for doing so was because it was ranked number 1 on this site and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. (Oh, by the way, if you know ANYBODY that plays EVE, you can try it for 14 days FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE. Love trial periods, I do.) Not since I first logged on to EQ so many years ago has a game yanked me in like this.. and I've played most major MMOs since EQ. It's a very deep game... to the point it's almost not a game. VERY in depth. Let me explain. WOW: Oooh, look at this sword. I am trained in swords. This sword has higher DPS than that sword. Is good. Maybe if I put a Crusader Enchantment on it, the damage will be even higher. More good. Even looks cool. EVE: Oooh, look at this turret. How fast does it turn? What is its range? At what range does its accuracy really take a dive? What kind of shells does it fire? At what rate does it fire them? It is stronger against shields or armor? Can my ship's computer keep up with it, and does my reactor have enough power left to run it? Heck, do I have the skill to install this thing? Am I good enough at Gunnery to use it to its fullest potential? Oh... does it make a difference whether I load it with Iron, Uranium, or Antimatter? And is it a good choice to load up for the type of fight I am about to get into? I think you get my point. I'm not even going into the games remarkable economic system, the social aspects of a galaxy largely controlled by the players, the size of the freaking galaxy... all of that is amazing. The player base is by far the most mature and intelligent I have seen in a MMORPG, because those are the type of people required to play it. Think Cartoon Network vs. Science Channel. That may be the best thing about EVE. Like I said, I only started up the game a few days ago, and I've been playing it steadily since. IMHO, it deserves its Number 1 ranking. It's not for everyone... it's too open ended for some people. But if you can get over the initial learning curve, and you have some semblance of motivation, the game is extremely rewarding in ways that multiple level 60's and a high PVP ranking in WoW could never be. THAT is why its players love it.
lol!
yeah, lets oversimplify one game and generalize that its players are all young children.
then lets go into full detail about the other game and generalize that all its players are mature adults.
if you want to compare games, do it right and get your facts straight. i found plenty of a-holes during my trial of EVE and i found plenty of mature people in my time in WoW.
i guess in WoW, the weapons don't have speed modifiers, different types of ammo for guns/bows, range and range modifiers? oh wait, they do...
the only thing i'm doing is bringing counterpoints to the blatant EVE promotion and the bashing of any game thats not Eve by its fans. play what you like (i don't care if you like wow, eve, swg, whatever) just when you compare your game to another, get the facts right and don't blatantly give false info to sway people to your game or generalize that one game's fans are all just immature children or all mature adults, because its simply not true.
Hmmm... defensive, aren't we?
Listen... I play WoW. Have since release. Quite a lot, actually. Across three different server types and with multiple level 60's. I also have played a multitude of MMO's stretching back to EQL. I have played just about every MMO in the top ten list on this site.
I too have met many good people in WoW. Same with Guild Wars. But if I were to rank the three communities in maturity, it would be EVE>WoW>GW, with no hesitation.
And if you think the weapon parameters in WoW are anything like the parameters in EVE, you are mistaken. In WoW, you usually pick you path and stick with it. Say, a Warrior. He chooses Fury or MS. An MS Warrior in WoW usually sticks with the highest damage 2 hander he can, while a Fury Warrior usually sticks to faster weapons to build Fury. To go another route would be "swimming against the current". So you go look for the weapon with the biggest stat in whichever type you need, and you stick with that unless you have a better one. Now, there is a little bit of give there for PVP purposes, but not much.
Try to pigeonhole yourself like that in EVE and you are in for a rough time.
That's only one example, friend. WoW is fun... it's lighthearted, intense in group PVP, and has terrific atmosphere. But honestly, it doesn't take much critical thinking or analysis to play. You go where the quests tell you to go, you look for better stuff, and you try and gain levels up to 60.
EVE is a mature game. It doesn't tell you what to do beyond the newbie tutorial. You're just floating out there in space. You have to set your own goals, your own path, and go and actually do it. Yes, it can be hard and boring. That is where WoW has the edge... it's fun all they way through up until the endgame. But that is what separates the wheat from the chaff in EVE; the fact that is does get hard, and it can be boring. It weeds out a large majority of the... wait, I can't say that because it would be a "generalization". But... you get my drift.
The fact is, the gamespace filters its community. EVE is a particularly fine filter. WoW; not so much. I am not exaggerating when I say that the difference is very, very obvious.
To each their own... that is what I said. But I definitely think any MMO player would be remiss not to give EVE a shot.
yeah i get a bit defensive, why should i, or anyone on this forum for that matter, spread lies about a game? i don't care what game it is, EQ, WOW, EVE, etc. there's a difference between an opinion and a flat out lie, thats what gets me heated over this whole thing.
you don't have to follow the quests in WoW either. you can go out and do whatever you want also.
its not like you don't gain xp if you don't do quests. quests add a lot to the story and gameplay.
also consider that wow is geared more towards the casual and new-to-mmos player. so its going to be simpler in that respect but its not like its totally watered down for a veteran mmo player.
Originally posted by hadz DOES NOT mean I like boring, dry, games; generalisation is a terrible thing.
Permit me the luxury of a generalisation now... the term "arrogant EVE-player" is fast becoming a tautology on this site!
Generalization is necessary for concise communication. Anyone who has played both WoW and EVE has experienced the notable differences between the general literacy of the respective playerbases. It is not arrogance to make reference to that which is true.
It may be uncomfortable to be among WoW players when the fact that it's a haven for B-Net kiddies is mentioned, and contrasted to the considerably more mature EVE communtiy, but that is not an indication of arrogance on the part of one who points out the facts of the matter.
Notably, you have chosen to entirely skip over the substance of my point in your hurry to brand me arrogant. My point remains, a community of greater maturity and inclination to thoughtfulness might be expected to engage in reviewing and writing to a greater extent than others. Explaining the tenacity with which EVE holds the top spot.
Originally posted by huxflux2004 Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by huxflux2004 there are two games. eve and the rest, which are eq clones. this is why eve is #1. it represents half the mmorpg gamers while the rest get divided between similar games.
Actually EVE represents less than 1% of the MMORPG Market.
70K current subscribers to EVE vs: 4.5M (WoW) 2.5 M (L2) 2M (L1) 500K (EQ2) 250K (SWG) 200K (DAOC)
So you're saying that 70,000 subscribers represents half the MMORPG market? A market of over 10 million?
Please do some basic math.
i corrected this. i meant half of the mmorpg players that use mmorpg.com
You'd STILL be wrong. Half the people on this site don't play EVE. I'd buy that half, or more, have TRIED it but I don't believe for 1 nanosecond that half the current subscribers to MMORPG.COM currently play, or are even subscribed to, EVE.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by elitestrider no way man EVE is a intelegent game for intelegent people that dont like stupid kids games
and probobly the reason why EVE is # 1 because is comes up to all the good expectations of the perfict game
No, I'm sorry, EVE is *just* a game. A well written game, but it's just a game. It's no more for 'intelligent' people than it is for 'aggressive' people or 'warmongering' people. After all, it's full open PVP and everyone that plays says the fun doesn't really start until you go to 0.0 space (open PVP). So that would mean it's only for people who like to kill each other, thus aggressive, war-mongering, psychopaths... right? WRONG... it's... just... a... game...
Yes, it has very cool aspects and decent graphics and a inventive (if boring) skill system and a solid economic system. But to say it's "perfect" (which you mispelled by the by, proving that it's not necessarily for 'intelligent' people ) is foolish. When most people that try a game find it "Boring", for various reasons, the game is not "perfect". It's a good game. Well written. Nice concepts. Creative. Original, for the most part.
But perfect? Hardly.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Ashkent you don't have to follow the quests in WoW either. you can go out and do whatever you want also. its not like you don't gain xp if you don't do quests. quests add a lot to the story and gameplay. also consider that wow is geared more towards the casual and new-to-mmos player. so its going to be simpler in that respect but its not like its totally watered down for a veteran mmo player.
You can 'do what you want' in any game. But EVE is founded on that principle, and so represents the pinnacle of the freeform MMORPG style. WoW simply is not that, not even close.
You can be level 60 in two months in WoW. You cannot achieve equivalent success in two years of EVE.
It's not a 'lie' to point out that WoW appeals to a lower echelon gamerbase, you as much as admit that yourself in your final paragraph I've quoted above.
The reality remains, WoW is a haven for B-Net kiddies and those looking for a simple game. One might make reasonable estimations of the maturity of such a crowd. Conversely, EVE is designed for the seasoned gamer, or new gamers with exceptional motivation and taste for nuanced complexity.
You may disagree on some emotional level, or you may rather take a step back and objectively consider the reality of the situation.
Originally posted by Carufin Originally posted by hadz DOES NOT mean I like boring, dry, games; generalisation is a terrible thing.
Permit me the luxury of a generalisation now... the term "arrogant EVE-player" is fast becoming a tautology on this site!
Generalization is necessary for concise communication. Anyone who has played both WoW and EVE has experienced the notable differences between the general literacy of the respective playerbases. It is not arrogance to make reference to that which is true. It may be uncomfortable to be among WoW players when the fact that it's a haven for B-Net kiddies is mentioned, and contrasted to the considerably more mature EVE communtiy, but that is not an indication of arrogance on the part of one who points out the facts of the matter. Notably, you have chosen to entirely skip over the substance of my point in your hurry to brand me arrogant. My point remains, a community of greater maturity and inclination to thoughtfulness might be expected to engage in reviewing and writing to a greater extent than others. Explaining the tenacity with which EVE holds the top spot.
I hate to break this to you but per capita, in my experience, there are just as many players of EVE who have poor grammar skills as there are in any other MMORPG I have ever played. EVE has just as many 'kewl d00ds' and 'l33+ pl4y4rz' as any other MMORPG out there. As a matter of fact it has more than some that I can think of because it's an open PVP system. Mind you: I've played far more than my fair share of MMORPG's, many of them to very high level and for extensive lengths of time, dating back to the ORIGINAL NeverWinter Nights on AOL and including every major, and most minor, MMORPG's released to date.
EVE has no more 'intelligent' players than any other MMORPG. Just because EVE is so slow paced that people wind up talking about things outside the game more often doesn't mean it's players are more intelligent. It just means that it's a very slow paced game in which players often find themselves with excessive ammounts of time on their hands which they feel a need to kill by discussing "real life" issues
(I'll refrain from saying 'boring' yet again)
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator No, I'm sorry, EVE is *just* a game. A well written game, but it's just a game. It's no more for 'intelligent' people than it is for 'aggressive' people or 'warmongering'
Chess and Tiddlywinks are also *just* a game. One might speculate reasonably as to the relative intellectual demeanor of the respective players. One might conclude, and rightfully so, that in the main more intellectuals are drawn to chess, than tiddlywinks.
Originally posted by elitestrider no way man EVE is a intelegent game for intelegent people that dont like stupid kids games and probobly the reason why EVE is # 1 because is comes up to all the good expectations of the perfict game
Originally posted by Carufin Originally posted by Elnator No, I'm sorry, EVE is *just* a game. A well written game, but it's just a game. It's no more for 'intelligent' people than it is for 'aggressive' people or 'warmongering' Chess and Tiddlywinks are also *just* a game. One might speculate reasonably as to the relative intellectual demeanor of the respective players. One might conclude, and rightfully so, that in the main more intellectuals are drawn to chess, than tiddlywinks. Likewise EVE vs. WoW.
No, you could make the arguement that a higher percentage of people who enjoy Chess are intelligent but you couldn't state that more intelligent people play chess. Because odds are more, total, intelligent play tiddlywinks but a lower percentage of tiddlywinks players are intelligent.
But there are very likely more total 'intelligent' players of Tiddlywinks than Chess.
Not "all" intelligent people enjoy Chess therefore you can't make a generalization of the type you're trying to make.
But comparing EVE to Chess and WoW to tiddlywinks is just bunk. They are internet games played by people attempting to escape reality. You can't make the same arguement as a 'arcade' game verses a 'strategy' game. Yes, EVE requires a bit more thought if you PLAY it as a strategy war, but it's not required to play it that way. Chess, on the other hand, is.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
'intelligent' players than any other MMORPG. Just because EVE is so slow paced that people wind up talking about things outside the game more often doesn't mean it's players are more intelligent.
Straw man. I never claimed that the indicator of intelligence in EVE is the propensity of the players to chat.
The players in EVE are more intelligent because the game is designed to require a higher level of intelligence, perception, and imagination in order to succeed. Therefore the kiddies and the lamers are weeded out at the front end, leaving a higher average level of maturity and sophistication in the playerbase. The most mundane of activities, such as outfitting your ship, require a vast base of knowledge to accomplish effectively for the task at hand.
WoW is simply another iteration of the same old dog-tired Sword/Sorcery paradigm. There is not nor has there ever been either great room for, or an actual realization of, nuance or sophistication in that gaming genre.
Originally posted by Carufin Originally posted by Elnator 'intelligent' players than any other MMORPG. Just because EVE is so slow paced that people wind up talking about things outside the game more often doesn't mean it's players are more intelligent. Straw man. I never claimed that the indicator of intelligence in EVE is the propensity of the players to chat. The players in EVE are more intelligent because the game is designed to require a higher level of intelligence, perception, and imagination in order to succeed. Therefore the kiddies and the lamers are weeded out at the front end, leaving a higher average level of maturity and sophistication in the playerbase. The most mundane of activities, such as outfitting your ship, require a vast base of knowledge to accomplish effectively for the task at hand. WoW is simply another iteration of the same old dog-tired Sword/Sorcery paradigm. There is not nor has there ever been either great room for, or an actual realization of, nuance or sophistication in that gaming genre.
I'm sorry. You are, again, incorrect. Your entire premise is that EVE draws more intellectual or 'intelligent' people than other games. This is just not true. EVE isn't any more difficult to master than any other MMORPG on the market, it just takes longer because of the way it's designed. It takes a lot of PATIENCE so I would accept that most eve players have more patience than your average MMORPG but I won't buy that eve players are any more (or less) intelligent than any other player. You're basing your entire arguement around the concept that EVE is somehow harder to play than any other MMORPG.
I dissagree. It's not particularly hard to play. It IS, however, very hard to *enjoy* if you aren't an extremely patient person.
I would propose this compromize: I will agree that EVE tends to attract fewer children due to the fact that it would be boring for them. I will agree that EVE will tend to appeal more to the adult population I will agree that due to that EVE probably has a higher population of adults over children.
But I won't agree that EVE has more 'intelligent' people playing it than other games. It *possibly* has a higher *percentage* of 'mature' players than other games, however. By simple virtue of the fact that, when all is said and done, adults *tend* to be more mature than children (though there are exceptions to that rule).
But you can't generalize and state that people who play EVE are any more, or less, *intelligent* than people who play other games. That is insulting and probably untrue. In fact I would venture to say that most people who are very intelligent and have extremely demanding jobs don't want to play a game like EVE because, like myself, they just want to get AWAY from 'work' when they play a game and be 'entertained'. EVE, to me, is very much like work. It does not 'entertain' me. It bores me. And on a bad day, it aggravates me.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
no, EVE does have a more intellegent player base than any other game I have ever played. There are smart people in every game, but it seems that everyone in this game knows whats "going on". It shows in corporation relationships and in the player driven market. In EVE, intellegence affects how much money you can make, and what role you have as a player. In most other games, it is time played, not intellegence that determines your place in the world. This attracts many smart players to this game. I might think this game is boring as hell at times, but the fact stated above really cant be disputed.
Originally posted by Ashkent you don't have to follow the quests in WoW either. you can go out and do whatever you want also. its not like you don't gain xp if you don't do quests. quests add a lot to the story and gameplay. also consider that wow is geared more towards the casual and new-to-mmos player. so its going to be simpler in that respect but its not like its totally watered down for a veteran mmo player.
You can 'do what you want' in any game. But EVE is founded on that principle, and so represents the pinnacle of the freeform MMORPG style. WoW simply is not that, not even close.
You can be level 60 in two months in WoW. You cannot achieve equivalent success in two years of EVE.
It's not a 'lie' to point out that WoW appeals to a lower echelon gamerbase, you as much as admit that yourself in your final paragraph I've quoted above.
The reality remains, WoW is a haven for B-Net kiddies and those looking for a simple game. One might make reasonable estimations of the maturity of such a crowd. Conversely, EVE is designed for the seasoned gamer, or new gamers with exceptional motivation and taste for nuanced complexity.
You may disagree on some emotional level, or you may rather take a step back and objectively consider the reality of the situation.
no matter how many "big and fancy" word you use, it still comes down to the fact that you keep insulting people who don't play your precious EVE. get down off your elitist attitude high horse.
it is a lie to say that wow appeals to a "lower echelon" of gamer (whatever the f*ck that means), because it also appeals to the "higher echelon" as well.
how you EVE players can sit here on an internet forum and argue back and forth about how great your game is and still state that your player base is more mature is beyond me.
you want me to "take a step back and objectively consider the reality of the situation"? i'd suggest you do the same.
BOTH GAMES ARE PLAYED TO BY PEOPLE OF ALL INTELLIGENCES AND MATURITY LEVELS. THEY PLAY TO HAVE FUN, NOT MAKE IT INTO SOME KIND OF CONTEST TO MAKE THEM SUPERIOR TO PLAYERS OF OTHER GAMES. ONE GAME DOES NOT MAKE YOU A SMARTER OR MORE MATURE PERSON THAN THE OTHER DOES. ONE GAME DOES NOT TURN YOU INTO A BLUBBERING LEET DOOD. THE FACT IS THAT THE GENERALIZATIONS AND LIES NEED TO STOP FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE.
THIS IS LIKE 2 LITTLE KIDS IN THE PLAYGROUND ARGUING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT HOW THEIR DADS CAN BEAT EACH OTHER UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR INTELLIGENCE OR MATURITY, GO OUT IN REAL LIFE AND DO SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS.
now, if you can't agree with what i just said in bold, then there is no hope for the mmorpg.com community.
It's not so much as that EVE requires more intelligent players as it requires patient players. In other MMORPGs, you look at a weapon and it gives you a straight up DPS readout plus any stat bonuses it gives. The information is presented upfront. In EVE, this information isn't presented upfront and you have to solve for it. Sure, it's more complicated in that you have to figure out what optimal range you want and what type of weapons to get and the kind of ammo to equip it with, but it's not so complicated that only people who've taken calculus can solve it. It does take, however, a great deal of patience to learn the combat system. Some people would rather just go out there and kill something rather than figure this stuff out, like me. I do play EVE Online but I find myself playing EQ2 on the side just so I can kill 10 mobs without having to worry about my loadout, optimal range, etc... I just wanna kill something sometimes, you know?
EVE's advantage is how much freedom it gives players. Sure, you can make the argument that you can do anything you want in other games, but what really is there to do? You can quest, which involves either delivery quests or kill quests. You can kill, but that's really no different than questing. You can also craft, which would involve harvesting and the actual crafting process, and you can play the market, but usually that's not very profitable. Then there's the mini-games some MMORPGs include such as collecting items for your home or growing plants, but those are more pasttimes than full-fledged activities. In EVE though, you're given much more options. It's the first game I've played where player politics actually matters. Piss someone off? Be prepared to deal with the consequences. Make alliances with other players? They actually count for something besides just gaming buddies. They also break up some of the major activities into its own specializations. In other games, when you craft, you do the harvesting and the crafting. In EVE, you can dedicate yourself to mining or you can dedicate your manufacturing towards a certain product. Just because someone is a manufacturer, doesn't mean that they can't craft the same items you can. This is the kind of freedom that attracts most people.
Also, the game doesn't exactly have an end-game. You won't ever reach a point where you have nothing left to do but PvP endlessly with little to no rewards and running the same raids over and over again. Sure, you do the same things repeatedly, but that's really no different than other MMORPGs.
i played eve for a little while. i guess i was just to stupid for it. it was nice to do while watching tv or something. i think after about a month i went back to playing warcaft III.. lol
gotta hand it to the developers though - they know how to make a game.
as for my actual opinion of it: it wasn't amazing, had more fun with free games.
I browse the web when I play . It makes for a fairly slow-paced game where I can take breaks to do other things while I travel around. One thing I really didn't like about raiding in other games was that I could never find time to use the bathroom or make a quick sandwich.
Why is this discussion necessary? Comparing eve to other games is not a good idea. Firstly, eve is a sci-fi space simulator kinda mmo, and I dont think there is any other big game that fills that niche. Secondly, eve is very much oriented on PvP whetehre it be mining, manufacturing, fighting or trading whereas all the other games are more focussed on PVE with PvP as an added bonus. Frankly speaking, eve's PVE sucks and is only a way for players to get some nice mods and make some cash. I have played eve for more than 2-1/2 years now and I still keep going back. Its because I like the eve concept very much and it suits my playing style.
What is it with people here are passing value judgements about others based on what game they play. And how stupid does someone have to be to compare Eve to WOW. They have almost nothing in common except for the fact that both are MMOs. The basic concepts behind both games, are completely different. Its like comparing cars to boats and saying I like cars better because I have a driving license and I can't swim. It makes no frickin sense.
Eve is prolly No.1 on this site because eve players are very dedicated to the game. It has a very loyal fan base and even the people who quit it, do so because they got bored and not because tehy didnt like the game. People need to get on with their lives and let this idiotic thread die.
Comments
somebody's been reading the WoW forums...
its hasn't been 13 pages about eve being at #1. it got derailed shortly after it started.
I bet you've already hit the lvl cap in Relevance derailment and Mimicry of Intelligence, right?
I was thinking an MMORPG call PHoRUm Trolls where you have spells and skills like:
- L33T 5p34k
- Flames of Derailment
- Circular Logic
- Nonsensical Statistic Spewing
- Offensive #$$%$#% Smoke screen
- Essence of Small Man Syndrome
I thought this argument would fizzle out around 9-10 pages in. seriously, why is this still being prolonged? What purpose is there to continue this discussion?
I think every point has been made and every point of interest clarified, can this just die now? There is no more reason for this to go on, being that this didn't even stay on topic that long before It was derailed...
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
lol!
yeah, lets oversimplify one game and generalize that its players are all young children.
then lets go into full detail about the other game and generalize that all its players are mature adults.
if you want to compare games, do it right and get your facts straight. i found plenty of a-holes during my trial of EVE and i found plenty of mature people in my time in WoW.
i guess in WoW, the weapons don't have speed modifiers, different types of ammo for guns/bows, range and range modifiers? oh wait, they do...
the only thing i'm doing is bringing counterpoints to the blatant EVE promotion and the bashing of any game thats not Eve by its fans. play what you like (i don't care if you like wow, eve, swg, whatever) just when you compare your game to another, get the facts right and don't blatantly give false info to sway people to your game or generalize that one game's fans are all just immature children or all mature adults, because its simply not true.
Hmmm... defensive, aren't we?
Listen... I play WoW. Have since release. Quite a lot, actually. Across three different server types and with multiple level 60's. I also have played a multitude of MMO's stretching back to EQL. I have played just about every MMO in the top ten list on this site.
I too have met many good people in WoW. Same with Guild Wars. But if I were to rank the three communities in maturity, it would be EVE>WoW>GW, with no hesitation.
And if you think the weapon parameters in WoW are anything like the parameters in EVE, you are mistaken. In WoW, you usually pick you path and stick with it. Say, a Warrior. He chooses Fury or MS. An MS Warrior in WoW usually sticks with the highest damage 2 hander he can, while a Fury Warrior usually sticks to faster weapons to build Fury. To go another route would be "swimming against the current". So you go look for the weapon with the biggest stat in whichever type you need, and you stick with that unless you have a better one. Now, there is a little bit of give there for PVP purposes, but not much.
Try to pigeonhole yourself like that in EVE and you are in for a rough time.
That's only one example, friend. WoW is fun... it's lighthearted, intense in group PVP, and has terrific atmosphere. But honestly, it doesn't take much critical thinking or analysis to play. You go where the quests tell you to go, you look for better stuff, and you try and gain levels up to 60.
EVE is a mature game. It doesn't tell you what to do beyond the newbie tutorial. You're just floating out there in space. You have to set your own goals, your own path, and go and actually do it. Yes, it can be hard and boring. That is where WoW has the edge... it's fun all they way through up until the endgame. But that is what separates the wheat from the chaff in EVE; the fact that is does get hard, and it can be boring. It weeds out a large majority of the... wait, I can't say that because it would be a "generalization". But... you get my drift.
The fact is, the gamespace filters its community. EVE is a particularly fine filter. WoW; not so much. I am not exaggerating when I say that the difference is very, very obvious.
To each their own... that is what I said. But I definitely think any MMO player would be remiss not to give EVE a shot.
The Greyhammer Timeline (Games Played > 1 month)
1999 >-- Everquest -- Dark Age of Camelot -- Everquest -- Anarchy Online -- Everquest -- Star Wars Galaxies -- Final Fantasy XI -- Everquest -- World of Warcraft -- Everquest 2 -- EVE Online --> 2006
Playing Navy Field (www.navyfield.com) and waiting for Vanguard.
no way man EVE is a intelegent game for intelegent people that dont like stupid kids games
and probobly the reason why EVE is # 1 because is comes up to all the good expectations of the perfict game
no way man EVE is a intelegent game for intelegent people that dont like stupid kids games
and probobly the reason why EVE is # 1 because is comes up to all the good expectations of the perfict game
you must not play eve then...
lol!
yeah, lets oversimplify one game and generalize that its players are all young children.
then lets go into full detail about the other game and generalize that all its players are mature adults.
if you want to compare games, do it right and get your facts straight. i found plenty of a-holes during my trial of EVE and i found plenty of mature people in my time in WoW.
i guess in WoW, the weapons don't have speed modifiers, different types of ammo for guns/bows, range and range modifiers? oh wait, they do...
the only thing i'm doing is bringing counterpoints to the blatant EVE promotion and the bashing of any game thats not Eve by its fans. play what you like (i don't care if you like wow, eve, swg, whatever) just when you compare your game to another, get the facts right and don't blatantly give false info to sway people to your game or generalize that one game's fans are all just immature children or all mature adults, because its simply not true.
Hmmm... defensive, aren't we?
Listen... I play WoW. Have since release. Quite a lot, actually. Across three different server types and with multiple level 60's. I also have played a multitude of MMO's stretching back to EQL. I have played just about every MMO in the top ten list on this site.
I too have met many good people in WoW. Same with Guild Wars. But if I were to rank the three communities in maturity, it would be EVE>WoW>GW, with no hesitation.
And if you think the weapon parameters in WoW are anything like the parameters in EVE, you are mistaken. In WoW, you usually pick you path and stick with it. Say, a Warrior. He chooses Fury or MS. An MS Warrior in WoW usually sticks with the highest damage 2 hander he can, while a Fury Warrior usually sticks to faster weapons to build Fury. To go another route would be "swimming against the current". So you go look for the weapon with the biggest stat in whichever type you need, and you stick with that unless you have a better one. Now, there is a little bit of give there for PVP purposes, but not much.
Try to pigeonhole yourself like that in EVE and you are in for a rough time.
That's only one example, friend. WoW is fun... it's lighthearted, intense in group PVP, and has terrific atmosphere. But honestly, it doesn't take much critical thinking or analysis to play. You go where the quests tell you to go, you look for better stuff, and you try and gain levels up to 60.
EVE is a mature game. It doesn't tell you what to do beyond the newbie tutorial. You're just floating out there in space. You have to set your own goals, your own path, and go and actually do it. Yes, it can be hard and boring. That is where WoW has the edge... it's fun all they way through up until the endgame. But that is what separates the wheat from the chaff in EVE; the fact that is does get hard, and it can be boring. It weeds out a large majority of the... wait, I can't say that because it would be a "generalization". But... you get my drift.
The fact is, the gamespace filters its community. EVE is a particularly fine filter. WoW; not so much. I am not exaggerating when I say that the difference is very, very obvious.
To each their own... that is what I said. But I definitely think any MMO player would be remiss not to give EVE a shot.
yeah i get a bit defensive, why should i, or anyone on this forum for that matter, spread lies about a game? i don't care what game it is, EQ, WOW, EVE, etc. there's a difference between an opinion and a flat out lie, thats what gets me heated over this whole thing.
you don't have to follow the quests in WoW either. you can go out and do whatever you want also.
its not like you don't gain xp if you don't do quests. quests add a lot to the story and gameplay.
also consider that wow is geared more towards the casual and new-to-mmos player. so its going to be simpler in that respect but its not like its totally watered down for a veteran mmo player.
Permit me the luxury of a generalisation now... the term "arrogant EVE-player" is fast becoming a tautology on this site!
Generalization is necessary for concise communication. Anyone who has played both WoW and EVE has experienced the notable differences between the general literacy of the respective playerbases. It is not arrogance to make reference to that which is true.
It may be uncomfortable to be among WoW players when the fact that it's a haven for B-Net kiddies is mentioned, and contrasted to the considerably more mature EVE communtiy, but that is not an indication of arrogance on the part of one who points out the facts of the matter.
Notably, you have chosen to entirely skip over the substance of my point in your hurry to brand me arrogant. My point remains, a community of greater maturity and inclination to thoughtfulness might be expected to engage in reviewing and writing to a greater extent than others. Explaining the tenacity with which EVE holds the top spot.
Actually EVE represents less than 1% of the MMORPG Market.
70K current subscribers to EVE vs: 4.5M (WoW) 2.5 M (L2) 2M (L1) 500K (EQ2) 250K (SWG) 200K (DAOC)
So you're saying that 70,000 subscribers represents half the MMORPG market? A market of over 10 million?
Please do some basic math.
i corrected this. i meant half of the mmorpg players that use mmorpg.com
You'd STILL be wrong. Half the people on this site don't play EVE. I'd buy that half, or more, have TRIED it but I don't believe for 1 nanosecond that half the current subscribers to MMORPG.COM currently play, or are even subscribed to, EVE.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
No, I'm sorry, EVE is *just* a game. A well written game, but it's just a game. It's no more for 'intelligent' people than it is for 'aggressive' people or 'warmongering' people. After all, it's full open PVP and everyone that plays says the fun doesn't really start until you go to 0.0 space (open PVP). So that would mean it's only for people who like to kill each other, thus aggressive, war-mongering, psychopaths... right? WRONG... it's... just... a... game...
Yes, it has very cool aspects and decent graphics and a inventive (if boring) skill system and a solid economic system. But to say it's "perfect" (which you mispelled by the by, proving that it's not necessarily for 'intelligent' people
) is foolish. When most people that try a game find it "Boring", for various reasons, the game is not "perfect". It's a good game. Well written. Nice concepts. Creative. Original, for the most part.
But perfect? Hardly.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
You can 'do what you want' in any game. But EVE is founded on that principle, and so represents the pinnacle of the freeform MMORPG style. WoW simply is not that, not even close.
You can be level 60 in two months in WoW. You cannot achieve equivalent success in two years of EVE.
It's not a 'lie' to point out that WoW appeals to a lower echelon gamerbase, you as much as admit that yourself in your final paragraph I've quoted above.
The reality remains, WoW is a haven for B-Net kiddies and those looking for a simple game. One might make reasonable estimations of the maturity of such a crowd. Conversely, EVE is designed for the seasoned gamer, or new gamers with exceptional motivation and taste for nuanced complexity.
You may disagree on some emotional level, or you may rather take a step back and objectively consider the reality of the situation.
Generalization is necessary for concise communication. Anyone who has played both WoW and EVE has experienced the notable differences between the general literacy of the respective playerbases. It is not arrogance to make reference to that which is true.
It may be uncomfortable to be among WoW players when the fact that it's a haven for B-Net kiddies is mentioned, and contrasted to the considerably more mature EVE communtiy, but that is not an indication of arrogance on the part of one who points out the facts of the matter.
Notably, you have chosen to entirely skip over the substance of my point in your hurry to brand me arrogant. My point remains, a community of greater maturity and inclination to thoughtfulness might be expected to engage in reviewing and writing to a greater extent than others. Explaining the tenacity with which EVE holds the top spot.
I hate to break this to you but per capita, in my experience, there are just as many players of EVE who have poor grammar skills as there are in any other MMORPG I have ever played. EVE has just as many 'kewl d00ds' and 'l33+ pl4y4rz' as any other MMORPG out there. As a matter of fact it has more than some that I can think of because it's an open PVP system. Mind you: I've played far more than my fair share of MMORPG's, many of them to very high level and for extensive lengths of time, dating back to the ORIGINAL NeverWinter Nights on AOL and including every major, and most minor, MMORPG's released to date.
EVE has no more 'intelligent' players than any other MMORPG. Just because EVE is so slow paced that people wind up talking about things outside the game more often doesn't mean it's players are more intelligent. It just means that it's a very slow paced game in which players often find themselves with excessive ammounts of time on their hands which they feel a need to kill by discussing "real life" issues
(I'll refrain from saying 'boring' yet again)
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Chess and Tiddlywinks are also *just* a game. One might speculate reasonably as to the relative intellectual demeanor of the respective players. One might conclude, and rightfully so, that in the main more intellectuals are drawn to chess, than tiddlywinks.
Likewise EVE vs. WoW.
Troll alert.
No, you could make the arguement that a higher percentage of people who enjoy Chess are intelligent but you couldn't state that more intelligent people play chess. Because odds are more, total, intelligent play tiddlywinks but a lower percentage of tiddlywinks players are intelligent.
But there are very likely more total 'intelligent' players of Tiddlywinks than Chess.
Not "all" intelligent people enjoy Chess therefore you can't make a generalization of the type you're trying to make.
But comparing EVE to Chess and WoW to tiddlywinks is just bunk. They are internet games played by people attempting to escape reality. You can't make the same arguement as a 'arcade' game verses a 'strategy' game. Yes, EVE requires a bit more thought if you PLAY it as a strategy war, but it's not required to play it that way. Chess, on the other hand, is.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Straw man. I never claimed that the indicator of intelligence in EVE is the propensity of the players to chat.
The players in EVE are more intelligent because the game is designed to require a higher level of intelligence, perception, and imagination in order to succeed. Therefore the kiddies and the lamers are weeded out at the front end, leaving a higher average level of maturity and sophistication in the playerbase. The most mundane of activities, such as outfitting your ship, require a vast base of knowledge to accomplish effectively for the task at hand.
WoW is simply another iteration of the same old dog-tired Sword/Sorcery paradigm. There is not nor has there ever been either great room for, or an actual realization of, nuance or sophistication in that gaming genre.
I'm sorry. You are, again, incorrect. Your entire premise is that EVE draws more intellectual or 'intelligent' people than other games. This is just not true. EVE isn't any more difficult to master than any other MMORPG on the market, it just takes longer because of the way it's designed. It takes a lot of PATIENCE so I would accept that most eve players have more patience than your average MMORPG but I won't buy that eve players are any more (or less) intelligent than any other player. You're basing your entire arguement around the concept that EVE is somehow harder to play than any other MMORPG.
I dissagree. It's not particularly hard to play. It IS, however, very hard to *enjoy* if you aren't an extremely patient person.
I would propose this compromize:
I will agree that EVE tends to attract fewer children due to the fact that it would be boring for them.
I will agree that EVE will tend to appeal more to the adult population
I will agree that due to that EVE probably has a higher population of adults over children.
But I won't agree that EVE has more 'intelligent' people playing it than other games. It *possibly* has a higher *percentage* of 'mature' players than other games, however. By simple virtue of the fact that, when all is said and done, adults *tend* to be more mature than children (though there are exceptions to that rule).
But you can't generalize and state that people who play EVE are any more, or less, *intelligent* than people who play other games. That is insulting and probably untrue. In fact I would venture to say that most people who are very intelligent and have extremely demanding jobs don't want to play a game like EVE because, like myself, they just want to get AWAY from 'work' when they play a game and be 'entertained'. EVE, to me, is very much like work. It does not 'entertain' me. It bores me. And on a bad day, it aggravates me.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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no, EVE does have a more intellegent player base than any other game I have ever played. There are smart people in every game, but it seems that everyone in this game knows whats "going on". It shows in corporation relationships and in the player driven market. In EVE, intellegence affects how much money you can make, and what role you have as a player. In most other games, it is time played, not intellegence that determines your place in the world. This attracts many smart players to this game. I might think this game is boring as hell at times, but the fact stated above really cant be disputed.
You can 'do what you want' in any game. But EVE is founded on that principle, and so represents the pinnacle of the freeform MMORPG style. WoW simply is not that, not even close.
You can be level 60 in two months in WoW. You cannot achieve equivalent success in two years of EVE.
It's not a 'lie' to point out that WoW appeals to a lower echelon gamerbase, you as much as admit that yourself in your final paragraph I've quoted above.
The reality remains, WoW is a haven for B-Net kiddies and those looking for a simple game. One might make reasonable estimations of the maturity of such a crowd. Conversely, EVE is designed for the seasoned gamer, or new gamers with exceptional motivation and taste for nuanced complexity.
You may disagree on some emotional level, or you may rather take a step back and objectively consider the reality of the situation.
no matter how many "big and fancy" word you use, it still comes down to the fact that you keep insulting people who don't play your precious EVE. get down off your elitist attitude high horse.
it is a lie to say that wow appeals to a "lower echelon" of gamer (whatever the f*ck that means), because it also appeals to the "higher echelon" as well.
how you EVE players can sit here on an internet forum and argue back and forth about how great your game is and still state that your player base is more mature is beyond me.
you want me to "take a step back and objectively consider the reality of the situation"? i'd suggest you do the same.
BOTH GAMES ARE PLAYED TO BY PEOPLE OF ALL INTELLIGENCES AND MATURITY LEVELS. THEY PLAY TO HAVE FUN, NOT MAKE IT INTO SOME KIND OF CONTEST TO MAKE THEM SUPERIOR TO PLAYERS OF OTHER GAMES. ONE GAME DOES NOT MAKE YOU A SMARTER OR MORE MATURE PERSON THAN THE OTHER DOES. ONE GAME DOES NOT TURN YOU INTO A BLUBBERING LEET DOOD. THE FACT IS THAT THE GENERALIZATIONS AND LIES NEED TO STOP FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE.
THIS IS LIKE 2 LITTLE KIDS IN THE PLAYGROUND ARGUING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT HOW THEIR DADS CAN BEAT EACH OTHER UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR INTELLIGENCE OR MATURITY, GO OUT IN REAL LIFE AND DO SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS.
now, if you can't agree with what i just said in bold, then there is no hope for the mmorpg.com community.
/clap. well said ashkent
It's not so much as that EVE requires more intelligent players as it requires patient players. In other MMORPGs, you look at a weapon and it gives you a straight up DPS readout plus any stat bonuses it gives. The information is presented upfront. In EVE, this information isn't presented upfront and you have to solve for it. Sure, it's more complicated in that you have to figure out what optimal range you want and what type of weapons to get and the kind of ammo to equip it with, but it's not so complicated that only people who've taken calculus can solve it. It does take, however, a great deal of patience to learn the combat system. Some people would rather just go out there and kill something rather than figure this stuff out, like me. I do play EVE Online but I find myself playing EQ2 on the side just so I can kill 10 mobs without having to worry about my loadout, optimal range, etc... I just wanna kill something sometimes, you know?
EVE's advantage is how much freedom it gives players. Sure, you can make the argument that you can do anything you want in other games, but what really is there to do? You can quest, which involves either delivery quests or kill quests. You can kill, but that's really no different than questing. You can also craft, which would involve harvesting and the actual crafting process, and you can play the market, but usually that's not very profitable. Then there's the mini-games some MMORPGs include such as collecting items for your home or growing plants, but those are more pasttimes than full-fledged activities. In EVE though, you're given much more options. It's the first game I've played where player politics actually matters. Piss someone off? Be prepared to deal with the consequences. Make alliances with other players? They actually count for something besides just gaming buddies. They also break up some of the major activities into its own specializations. In other games, when you craft, you do the harvesting and the crafting. In EVE, you can dedicate yourself to mining or you can dedicate your manufacturing towards a certain product. Just because someone is a manufacturer, doesn't mean that they can't craft the same items you can. This is the kind of freedom that attracts most people.
Also, the game doesn't exactly have an end-game. You won't ever reach a point where you have nothing left to do but PvP endlessly with little to no rewards and running the same raids over and over again. Sure, you do the same things repeatedly, but that's really no different than other MMORPGs.
i played eve for a little while. i guess i was just to stupid for it. it was nice to do while watching tv or something. i think after about a month i went back to playing warcaft III.. lol
gotta hand it to the developers though - they know how to make a game.
as for my actual opinion of it: it wasn't amazing, had more fun with free games.
I browse the web when I play
. It makes for a fairly slow-paced game where I can take breaks to do other things while I travel around. One thing I really didn't like about raiding in other games was that I could never find time to use the bathroom or make a quick sandwich.
Why is this discussion necessary? Comparing eve to other games is not a good idea. Firstly, eve is a sci-fi space simulator kinda mmo, and I dont think there is any other big game that fills that niche. Secondly, eve is very much oriented on PvP whetehre it be mining, manufacturing, fighting or trading whereas all the other games are more focussed on PVE with PvP as an added bonus. Frankly speaking, eve's PVE sucks and is only a way for players to get some nice mods and make some cash. I have played eve for more than 2-1/2 years now and I still keep going back. Its because I like the eve concept very much and it suits my playing style.
What is it with people here are passing value judgements about others based on what game they play. And how stupid does someone have to be to compare Eve to WOW. They have almost nothing in common except for the fact that both are MMOs. The basic concepts behind both games, are completely different. Its like comparing cars to boats and saying I like cars better because I have a driving license and I can't swim. It makes no frickin sense.
Eve is prolly No.1 on this site because eve players are very dedicated to the game. It has a very loyal fan base and even the people who quit it, do so because they got bored and not because tehy didnt like the game. People need to get on with their lives and let this idiotic thread die.