The UI might be part of the "action'" but it can distract and be a nuisance in terms of immersion and watching the actual game itself.
I think an mmorpg can still have depth without resorting to hotbars galore.
Heck I think the control/combat system mechanic sin geranal can be changed and shaken up.
There ar ea TON of different ways to mechanically have combat work, hotkeys tied to your number sor whatever, or tying skills more to gameplay actions and on-the-fly controlls.
For exxample, we already know mages will have to be "rooted" in place while casting and aren't going to be the running around throwing magic kind.
So instead of having magic cast via hotkeys/action bars, why not tie it more to the controls at and and make it mor eversatile?
An example, lets say (since you have to be still to cast) why not allow the mouse button to be clicked and held (or toggle) to put your mage into a "casting" state. Now while in this stae you can still aim around , target people, etc. However while you are holding your mouse button in this "casting" state your entire keyboard opens up to be spell cast. W/s/a/d and all those keys normaly "reserved" for moving can be used to both, move, and for combat, with that kind of system.
If you want to move/exist this, just let go of the button (or click it again to toggle).
With those kind of controls you could easily buidl up magic spells that can be cast more quickly (because of the nature of finger placement) and alos open it up to trying new systems. What if simple spells are just a simple quick button press?
Say for example as a mage you want to cast a average "fireball." It's an easy spell to learn and you simply hold your mouse button an dthen click w to fire it off. You want to do a air-based spell that knocks people back? You push your e key and bam, it does it.
Now lets say you ant to cast an "inferno" which ic bascially fire with wind. So what do you do? Instead of just casting with the w or e key, you combine them, and cast both, and thus you get the inferno spell instead of the other ones.
That kind of control scheme can have both more depth thent he normal hotkeys, it won't take up nearly as much space, plus it provides more "feeling" behind the controls and quicker access to casting then normal hotkeys/numbers.
Originally posted by belatucadros Go ahead and condense down to 4 abilities then. If it is that easy. Also, why does x number of skills take your eyes off the battle? I'm not following.
You don't get how having a lot of hotbars taking up screenspace and looking them for CD's, etc takes your view off the battlefield/game?
I'd much rather watch the game, have as little screenspace as needed taken up by a skillbar and intead be able to ues muscle memory controls with my hands then hotkey hotkey hotkey.
A lot of "skills/abilities" in mmo's can be condensed down into part of normal control functions and abilities.
Those UIs are garbage. Horrible UX. Whoever set those bars up is a monkey smashing a keyboard.
DAOC's entire UI was hidable, if that made you happy. WAR let you do segments.
I think its fair to say nobody likes clutter. I realise I'm liable to be hung from a tree or flogged for this, but I do rather enjoy TSW's basic "huge pool of abilities, but you can only use six actives".
camelot-rp.enjin.com - A hub for roleplayers in Camelot Unchained!
Originally posted by AdeptusArbitrator I think its fair to say nobody likes clutter. I realise I'm liable to be hung from a tree or flogged for this, but I do rather enjoy TSW's basic "huge pool of abilities, but you can only use six actives".
Different people have different preferences (duh!). I hate that kind of system especially since it usually means there are dozens of worthless abilities and really only a handful that are worth slotting which everybody uses.
What I mean by automate is this......It takes all the strategy out of having different abilities.
Do maxdamagestyle
If on cooldown then do 2ndbeststyle
If on cooldown then do 3rdbeststyle
If on cooldown then do basicstyle
If out of range then do basicrangedd
WoW macros can't do that either. If you try to use a macro on something out of range, it will just say target too far away. You CAN do /castsequence, but those are rarely used in combat because of their limitations and they don't work based on cooldown either. Some people may use them to create one-button chains using /castsequence, but those chains are no different than pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on repeat, and they won't win against any semi-competent player.
Simply put, that is not how macros work at all.
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
Shows the icon/tooltip of the ability to be used based on the conditional
Casts the ability listed based on the conditional
If stealthed, casts pounce
If a shift modifier is employed, casts savage roar
If no conditional (i.e. stealth, mod:shift) is present, casts maim
Simply clears any error text from the screen caused by cool downs, range, etc.
There is nothing in the macro that you do not have to perform yourself, and nearly ALL combat macros are similar to this. They simply allow space and keystrokes to be saved. Keep in mind there are no conditionals that allow for range detection, defensive ability detction, armor type, class, etc.. Is switching to your stealth action bar more immersive than your action changing based on a conditional? No, I refuse to believe it is.
Many macros have different abilities (i.e. potions, spells off the global cooldown) that go off at the same time, but you can do that without the macro as well. The macro just streamlines the process. This has more to do with the game in question than it does with the macro system.
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
What I mean by automate is this......It takes all the strategy out of having different abilities.
Do maxdamagestyle
If on cooldown then do 2ndbeststyle
If on cooldown then do 3rdbeststyle
If on cooldown then do basicstyle
If out of range then do basicrangedd
WoW macros can't do that either. If you try to use a macro on something out of range, it will just say target too far away. You CAN do /castsequence, but those are rarely used in combat because of their limitations and they don't work based on cooldown either. Some people may use them to create one-button chains using /castsequence, but those chains are no different than pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on repeat, and they won't win against any semi-competent player.
Simply put, that is not how macros work at all.
Yes it is. You JUST described the exact same thing in your example above, except replace "cooldown" with "stealth" and "shift key".
There is no sense in me trying to explain how incorrect that statement is to someone who is set in their ways. It would be best for us both to just agree to disagree.
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
You don't need to explain how they work, I already know. I've created lots of macro's in Wow and Rift. I think you're the one that's confused on how they really work.
Comments
The UI might be part of the "action'" but it can distract and be a nuisance in terms of immersion and watching the actual game itself.
I think an mmorpg can still have depth without resorting to hotbars galore.
Heck I think the control/combat system mechanic sin geranal can be changed and shaken up.
There ar ea TON of different ways to mechanically have combat work, hotkeys tied to your number sor whatever, or tying skills more to gameplay actions and on-the-fly controlls.
For exxample, we already know mages will have to be "rooted" in place while casting and aren't going to be the running around throwing magic kind.
So instead of having magic cast via hotkeys/action bars, why not tie it more to the controls at and and make it mor eversatile?
An example, lets say (since you have to be still to cast) why not allow the mouse button to be clicked and held (or toggle) to put your mage into a "casting" state. Now while in this stae you can still aim around , target people, etc. However while you are holding your mouse button in this "casting" state your entire keyboard opens up to be spell cast. W/s/a/d and all those keys normaly "reserved" for moving can be used to both, move, and for combat, with that kind of system.
If you want to move/exist this, just let go of the button (or click it again to toggle).
With those kind of controls you could easily buidl up magic spells that can be cast more quickly (because of the nature of finger placement) and alos open it up to trying new systems. What if simple spells are just a simple quick button press?
Say for example as a mage you want to cast a average "fireball." It's an easy spell to learn and you simply hold your mouse button an dthen click w to fire it off. You want to do a air-based spell that knocks people back? You push your e key and bam, it does it.
Now lets say you ant to cast an "inferno" which ic bascially fire with wind. So what do you do? Instead of just casting with the w or e key, you combine them, and cast both, and thus you get the inferno spell instead of the other ones.
That kind of control scheme can have both more depth thent he normal hotkeys, it won't take up nearly as much space, plus it provides more "feeling" behind the controls and quicker access to casting then normal hotkeys/numbers.
Those UIs are garbage. Horrible UX. Whoever set those bars up is a monkey smashing a keyboard.
DAOC's entire UI was hidable, if that made you happy. WAR let you do segments.
camelot-rp.enjin.com - A hub for roleplayers in Camelot Unchained!
Different people have different preferences (duh!). I hate that kind of system especially since it usually means there are dozens of worthless abilities and really only a handful that are worth slotting which everybody uses.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
WoW macros can't do that either. If you try to use a macro on something out of range, it will just say target too far away. You CAN do /castsequence, but those are rarely used in combat because of their limitations and they don't work based on cooldown either. Some people may use them to create one-button chains using /castsequence, but those chains are no different than pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on repeat, and they won't win against any semi-competent player.
Simply put, that is not how macros work at all.
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
i hope they are no macros
i'm a "do it yourself" type of guy.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Your asking the program to do what is best.....one click melee
Macros don't perform the actions for you, they simply allow customization and make certain things comparatively simpler.
Example of a common WoW macro, defined line by line, to dispel these beliefs that people have developed about macros:
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
Yes it is. You JUST described the exact same thing in your example above, except replace "cooldown" with "stealth" and "shift key".
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes