All I can say on this was that wasn't the intent nor the promise I made to the players and that I was made as well. I'm happy to take the heat for it but when I said that it wouldn't affect RvR, that was the promise I was made when I agreed to the plan. As anyone who felt the brunt of my anger that day could tell you (but they don't have the balls to admit their mistakes), it was not a good day to work for me. 2nd worse day of my tenure at Mythic. Still my fault because I was CEO and lord knows, I did some dumb things myself but man oh man, that wasn't one of them.
For all it's faults, I still enjoyed TOA. Still think TOA should be full RVR and not just ML10, but that's just my opinion.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall. Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
Also to say things are broken like stealth and other mechanics in other games, is game bashing.
No this is the truth man, games where you can instantly stealth and stay invisible to the world indefinitely are broken and frankly stupid. Stealth is cool and all, but I've played stealthers in every MMO I've played, and the list is long, but being invisible all the time is kinda lame.
I'm sure there are plenty of better, new, fun, and innovative ways they can do stealth / assassin and archer / scout classes. I preferred stealth being more limited like it was in Warhammer Online IMHO.
Can I just state that TOA ended up pretty good, by the end of things.
All the EQ-Style nonsense was removed and it became an RVR-capable expansion.
I still think it took things too far above a "base" level 50 - especially considering realm rank - but it honestly is not all that hard to complete now.
I don't know what the resistance was for years, but streamlining went a long way. Hell, the fact that you couldn't originally level artifacts in RVR is ridiculous! That was probably one of the biggest mistakes, IMO.
But an RR9 group vs an RR4 group just starting out was an uphill battle. If the RR9 group was also ML8+ all of a sudden things got out of hand. Then you add in artifacts...
then the 'champion level' stuff came and, in many ways, was too LITTLE advancement - but put on top of the ML/RR disparities, that extra batch of HP started to add up, and the small bits of utility etc etc. I'd rather see more of that than what happened with TOA.
HOWEVER, a L50 RR2 healer could still get picked up by another RR9 ML10 CL10 group without too much trouble. RR climbs fast with a good group, and if you can earn ML/artifact XP/CLXP all while RVRing, it's not that bad. Convincing them to take you(being a healer helps in this example) may be one thing, but if you can get out there, you can contribute.
Even though it was a bit too much, that type of semi-lateral advancement is really exciting. If instead it had been L60, L70, and L80 that got added, I think people would have been even more upset.
If a newer character can truly contribute to an RVR group in CU, that would be great. This means it's easy to sub out a class for your guild if things get tight, or you can pick up lower rank players to fill gaps, whatever. (It also gives me hope for a combat-survivable crafter/engineer type class, vs the siege/sword bot a lot of people are clamoring for...)
I get the hate, oh, I so get the hate. Do you want to know what one of the saddest things about EA is? There are a lot of executives there who love games, I mean, really love games. Not love games as a way to make money but love playing games talking about games, etc. Unfortunately, there are too many other people there for whom the making of great games is less important than their bonuses, personal fiefdoms, perks, power, etc. It's a real shame.
For me, it's being old enough to remember that EA started (EOA) as a company of a few guys (and gals?) who made some of the very best games for the first home PC's. You could tell they loved what they were doing (they used their own names as players in sporting games) and the games were a ton of fun.
Maybe instead of writing their most BASIC rule set before kickstarting their game, the should of gotten these down already. At this point for the millions they are asking for we should be at least seeing a working alpha demo of SOMETHING at least.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I do hope their is an attempt to keep the concept of Archers and stealthers alive. In every game that took them out or watered down the classes so they are nearly the same I have found to be boring and uninspired. I see the issues with conventional approaches to them but to not allow such playstyles at all cuts a great portion of the mmo playerbase out of what they like.
This problem about CU trying to be old school is that they still need old school options. New approaches to implementing them is what is required. Not cutting them out.
You stay sassy!
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Tamanous
Now that the word from Dictionary.com is over ...
I do hope their is an attempt to keep the concept of Archers and stealthers alive. In every game that took them out or watered down the classes so they are nearly the same I have found to be boring and uninspired. I see the issues with conventional approaches to them but to not allow such playstyles at all cuts a great portion of the mmo playerbase out of what they like.
This problem about CU trying to be old school is that they still need old school options. New approaches to implementing them is what is required. Not cutting them out.
That's my point entirely. I want archers in our game, I want to find a way to put stealth-loving characters in our game but I'll only do it with an approach that makes sense for all the players (even their kills).
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi Stealth element in games is what makes each game "DIFFERENT"
And Other Things
The typical being invisible in the wide open in broad daylight 24/7 stealth of most MMOs is pretty done to death, and it would be cool to try something different.
I'm interested to see where MJ goes with it, he mentioned the stealth system he wanted to test was batshit crazy. So I guess we will see what happens.
I could imagine a cool system using disguises and / with short duration stealth (like warhammer), would have a kinda assassin's creed like feel to it or something.
Also sounds like they could do a different camouflage system built along side of it as well, which can be influenced by distance, shadow , decor, movement, etc.
Which could be used for both stealther / assassin type classes as well as archer / scout like classes.
Would make it more tactical and "realistic", could be a cool system, where you become invisible not because no one can see you but because your blending in and not being noticed till the time you strike.
But of course there is always the meta game, where if your disguise or stealth skills aren't high enough certain classes like enemy assassin / archer classes or possibly other classes with a high enough "perception" can see through it. I'm sure there is a lot of fun things you can do here.
It would be a lot of deception and misdirection, could be interesting.
Comments
For all it's faults, I still enjoyed TOA. Still think TOA should be full RVR and not just ML10, but that's just my opinion.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
No this is the truth man, games where you can instantly stealth and stay invisible to the world indefinitely are broken and frankly stupid. Stealth is cool and all, but I've played stealthers in every MMO I've played, and the list is long, but being invisible all the time is kinda lame.
I'm sure there are plenty of better, new, fun, and innovative ways they can do stealth / assassin and archer / scout classes. I preferred stealth being more limited like it was in Warhammer Online IMHO.
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Can I just state that TOA ended up pretty good, by the end of things.
All the EQ-Style nonsense was removed and it became an RVR-capable expansion.
I still think it took things too far above a "base" level 50 - especially considering realm rank - but it honestly is not all that hard to complete now.
I don't know what the resistance was for years, but streamlining went a long way. Hell, the fact that you couldn't originally level artifacts in RVR is ridiculous! That was probably one of the biggest mistakes, IMO.
But an RR9 group vs an RR4 group just starting out was an uphill battle. If the RR9 group was also ML8+ all of a sudden things got out of hand. Then you add in artifacts...
then the 'champion level' stuff came and, in many ways, was too LITTLE advancement - but put on top of the ML/RR disparities, that extra batch of HP started to add up, and the small bits of utility etc etc. I'd rather see more of that than what happened with TOA.
HOWEVER, a L50 RR2 healer could still get picked up by another RR9 ML10 CL10 group without too much trouble. RR climbs fast with a good group, and if you can earn ML/artifact XP/CLXP all while RVRing, it's not that bad. Convincing them to take you(being a healer helps in this example) may be one thing, but if you can get out there, you can contribute.
Even though it was a bit too much, that type of semi-lateral advancement is really exciting. If instead it had been L60, L70, and L80 that got added, I think people would have been even more upset.
If a newer character can truly contribute to an RVR group in CU, that would be great. This means it's easy to sub out a class for your guild if things get tight, or you can pick up lower rank players to fill gaps, whatever. (It also gives me hope for a combat-survivable crafter/engineer type class, vs the siege/sword bot a lot of people are clamoring for...)
For me, it's being old enough to remember that EA started (EOA) as a company of a few guys (and gals?) who made some of the very best games for the first home PC's. You could tell they loved what they were doing (they used their own names as players in sporting games) and the games were a ton of fun.
Now it's Haliburton.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Now that the word from Dictionary.com is over ...
I do hope their is an attempt to keep the concept of Archers and stealthers alive. In every game that took them out or watered down the classes so they are nearly the same I have found to be boring and uninspired. I see the issues with conventional approaches to them but to not allow such playstyles at all cuts a great portion of the mmo playerbase out of what they like.
This problem about CU trying to be old school is that they still need old school options. New approaches to implementing them is what is required. Not cutting them out.
You stay sassy!
That's my point entirely. I want archers in our game, I want to find a way to put stealth-loving characters in our game but I'll only do it with an approach that makes sense for all the players (even their kills).
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
The typical being invisible in the wide open in broad daylight 24/7 stealth of most MMOs is pretty done to death, and it would be cool to try something different.
I'm interested to see where MJ goes with it, he mentioned the stealth system he wanted to test was batshit crazy. So I guess we will see what happens.
I could imagine a cool system using disguises and / with short duration stealth (like warhammer), would have a kinda assassin's creed like feel to it or something.
Also sounds like they could do a different camouflage system built along side of it as well, which can be influenced by distance, shadow , decor, movement, etc.
Which could be used for both stealther / assassin type classes as well as archer / scout like classes.
Would make it more tactical and "realistic", could be a cool system, where you become invisible not because no one can see you but because your blending in and not being noticed till the time you strike.
But of course there is always the meta game, where if your disguise or stealth skills aren't high enough certain classes like enemy assassin / archer classes or possibly other classes with a high enough "perception" can see through it. I'm sure there is a lot of fun things you can do here.
It would be a lot of deception and misdirection, could be interesting.
It would be more like Social Cloaking / Disguise Mastery instead of Invisibility. So you would be more like Batman / Assassin's Creed instead of being like the Predator.
I'm flexing my nerd muscles now :-P
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http://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/