What does this thread tell me? That there is no alternative to the basic four quest types.
1. Kill x of y mob(s)
2. Collect x of y item drop(s)
3. Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)
4. Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z.
But no one has come up with a quest description that adds to this list. Every example is no more than a rewording of this basic list. If your quest idea is Escort an npc to a location, and that location is either the good guy or the bad guy. The quest is still a class 4 quest.
The goal of this thread is not how can games fool us into tolerating the four basic quest types. The real goal is how to expand the list. If all you can come up with is change the quest text, and make the mobs more dynamic and animated. Then just through your hand up and admit defeat, because the list will never expand.
Why do we need to expand this list? Quests is about dressing these 4 things up in different ways. Look at movies .. how many movies are based on "heroes beating the bad guy as an underdog"? It works.
May be MMOs should follow SP games better ... SP games have no problem making these 4 things fun and exciting.
How do MMO designers have jobs at this point. really how do these people have jobs.
It's one thing to take the casual solo quest grind gameplay of WoW, it's another to use it in every MMO and call your MMO innovative. Just call it WoW-clone 326.
If I see one more kill bugs 0/6 quest in a game, or give this letter to Gandalf 0/1 quest , I am going to punch a designer in the face.
Don't blame the devs. If people keep buying it, devs will keep making it.
More to the point, the publishers won't authorise the funding to make anything else.
Why do we need to expand this list? Quests is about dressing these 4 things up in different ways. Look at movies .. how many movies are based on "heroes beating the bad guy as an underdog"? It works.
May be MMOs should follow SP games better ... SP games have no problem making these 4 things fun and exciting.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, I am perfectly fine with these four standard quest lines. But obviously this thread exists because some are not fine with them. The only reason we are fine with them in SP games is because they are meant to be played for 40 hours or less. While MMOs are meant to be played for years. The failure of games that just reworded or upped the animation of these four quest genre proves that gamers can’t be fooled by trickery for long, or only a small percentage of them can.
The only reason I demand that people try and come up with alternative is to prove once and for all how futile it is to even try and expand this list, or to keep complaining about the list.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, I am perfectly fine with these four standard quest lines. But obviously this thread exists because some are not fine with them. The only reason we are fine with them in SP games is because they are meant to be played for 40 hours or less. While MMOs are meant to be played for years. The failure of games that just reworded or upped the animation of these four quest genre proves that gamers can’t be fooled by trickery for long, or only a small percentage of them can.
That is the problem. MMOs are meant to have quantity over quality? May be they should be designed for shorter play span then everything will be fine.
Or just make combat fun. D2 last for a long time. D3 last as long (if not longer) than many MMO .. and it has nothing but kill stuff quests.
Originally posted by Sephiroso Originally posted by shiner421 What I miss the most is how EQ handled quests. I like how you were forced to read the quest descriptions, and you were forced to talk to the NPC with the right terms or they wouldnt give you the quest. I would like to see this broadened and implemented in some new ways. This would increase immersion, at least for me, a thousand fold.
yea for you its a good thing, for 90% of todays mmo gamers, its just tedious. or a gimmick, an unnecessary one. besides EQ didn't really have quests persay. least not quests like WoW had, so for that type of system to be used in a game that has as many quests as a WoW-type game does, just not gonna sit well with anyone.
I agree with shiner421.
Sephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
BTW, the 90% metric you made up is pure fiction.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
A lot of heated discussion here. I don't find these types of quests annoying except for the "dailies" or daily quests in which you have a routine where you have to do certain things every single day. Wow, could content get any more boring? The sad thing is that people seem to like having daily repeatable content.
Sephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.
Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.
I would kill a rat if it knocked me down from ledges which I need to access to get to the next area. (Very good incentive used in many platform games).
Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.
Yeah .. but note that you don't actually have to program that game to "turn the populace of the world into zombies". You just have to prevent the game from proceeding until you kill the rate.
The reason is in the writing, and can convey through text, VO or animation ... it is all dressing up.
Originally posted by birdycephon Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.
Yeah .. but note that you don't actually have to program that game to "turn the populace of the world into zombies". You just have to prevent the game from proceeding until you kill the rate.
The reason is in the writing, and can convey through text, VO or animation ... it is all dressing up.
Yeah, and make the guy sound a little nuts and you've got a comedy.
Originally posted by ArclanSephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.
Yeah .. but note that you don't actually have to program that game to "turn the populace of the world into zombies". You just have to prevent the game from proceeding until you kill the rate.
The reason is in the writing, and can convey through text, VO or animation ... it is all dressing up.
Yeah, and make the guy sound a little nuts and you've got a comedy.
You could take it one step further, and create a GW2 style DE by seting a hidden timer once the quest is given and if the player(s) do not kill enough rats all the critters/animals in the zone switch from being neutral to being agressive (even towards NPCs). This would then trigger another set of quests to find the "cure" and gather the required items and give it to someone who needs to be kept alive while they apply the "cure".
This way a simple kill x rats can morph into a multistep quest:
1. Collect x ammount of "disseased" items from any/all the affected animals.
2. Once disease is known ... collect x amont of items or craft x amount of "cure"
3. Keeps generic healer npc alive while cure is given to animals.
You could make it very dynamic using scripts and DB flags to adjust hidden timer/affected animals/disease type/cure ... etc
Span that accross all the little "fetch" quests and it becomes a little more intersting. based on the creativity of the scripter and the freedom they are given all sorts of awesomeness could happen.
I agree with dress it up better comments, it is not that hard and makes things better.
This way a simple kill x rats can morph into a multistep quest:
1. Collect x ammount of "disseased" items from any/all the affected animals.
2. Once disease is known ... collect x amont of items or craft x amount of "cure"
3. Keeps generic healer npc alive while cure is given to animals.
You could make it very dynamic using scripts and DB flags to adjust hidden timer/affected animals/disease type/cure ... etc
Span that accross all the little "fetch" quests and it becomes a little more intersting. based on the creativity of the scripter and the freedom they are given all sorts of awesomeness could happen.
I agree with dress it up better comments, it is not that hard and makes things better.
Agreed. Branching and multi-stage is not exactly new ideas in questing. If a SP game can do that, there is no reason why a MMO cannot.
That is one of the things I really liked about GW2, tell the story by doing and not reading/seeing quest text. I just witnessed bandits come in and take over a farm... gee I wonder what I should do . It made the process of exploring what world there is more interesting.
Whenever I think about this Egoraptor's "Mega Man vs. Mega Man X" comes to mind. "Mega Man!, Mega Man!
You could take it one step further, and create a GW2 style DE by seting a hidden timer once the quest is given and if the player(s) do not kill enough rats all the critters/animals in the zone switch from being neutral to being agressive (even towards NPCs). This would then trigger another set of quests to find the "cure" and gather the required items and give it to someone who needs to be kept alive while they apply the "cure".
This way a simple kill x rats can morph into a multistep quest:
1. Collect x ammount of "disseased" items from any/all the affected animals.
2. Once disease is known ... collect x amont of items or craft x amount of "cure"
3. Keeps generic healer npc alive while cure is given to animals.
You could make it very dynamic using scripts and DB flags to adjust hidden timer/affected animals/disease type/cure ... etc
Span that accross all the little "fetch" quests and it becomes a little more intersting. based on the creativity of the scripter and the freedom they are given all sorts of awesomeness could happen.
I agree with dress it up better comments, it is not that hard and makes things better.
You do realize that you just described the chain questing system used by swtor? You have just given voice to an opinion I have had for some time now. GW2 stole their DE functionality from swtor.
BTW from your list:
1. is a Kill X of Y mob(s)
2. Collect x of y item drop(s)
3. is both a Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z, and a Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)
You wrapped up all four quest types in one chain. Now I am not saying that games don’t need better writing. I’m saying I don’t believe there is more than the four identified quests types.
FYI, I am working on my own game. I decided each faction would have three origin story lines, separated by societal class. The tiers could be unlocked by leveling a char to an unlock level like 75%-90% of max, Cash Shop unlock, or Subscription. The rural zone and story would have the new character visit several town members to learn basic skills, get familiar with zone layout, and get starting quests (Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)). This storyline would be heavy on tutorial and hand holding. This first half of your characters life will be growing up on a farm. It would mirror as I imagine it Luke Skywalkers early life. Preparing the field for planting (Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s) & Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z). Defend the crops from predators (Kill X of Y mob(s)). Maintain the fields and farm structures and equipment (Collect x of y item drop(s), & Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)). Lastly you would harvest the crops and take them to market(all four quest types). The mobs would be low aggression and non-packing attackers.
The second tier or suburban origin story line would be tutorial and hand-holding free, it would be considered normal difficulty level. The story would fit the setting but mirror the lower level. Get familiar with the zone, learn starting skills, get starting quest. quest would prepare you for your starting job or role. Mobs would be more aggressive and work in teams or packs.
The third and possibly final tier would be urban and or upper class, this would be the hardcore mode. I still think that there should be zone familiarization, and character introduction but how I and not yet sure. Right now it is still Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s). It may evolve into Discover x npc of y npc(s). Mobs will be most aggressive in this zone, actively hunting the player if need be.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
You do realize that you just described the chain questing system used by swtor? You have just given voice to an opinion I have had for some time now. GW2 stole their DE functionality from swtor.
The problem about TOR is not their quest system, it is the implementation and details.
If the writing is better, if the NPCs don't speak only in like 3 posts, and events are showed in better scripted animations, then i may actually play the game.
Im gonna have to agree..... I just recently got back into rift and while I love rift and its world. Everytime I try to level my 53 cleric to 60 the stupid fetch and kill quests bore me straight to the exit button.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Originally posted by Squeak69 BETTER QUESTION, explain in detail alternatives to this.
dynamic progression. A much longer, varied, improved version of GW2 events but without repeating. An actual simulation of a living world. I wouldnt need to kill 10 bears to collect one tooth form each bear. Why not instead i go out hunting the bears and they are actually hunting unaware people (npc and players) in the wild instead of just walking back n forth waiting for you to kill them.
What about you go out exploring and you kill some goblins on the way and a short while later you hear in town that the goblins are going mad (and take revenge) burning villages and actually killing NPCs. Similar to GW2 but more indepth so it doesnt just repeat the same event, instead the players who excel at crafting can help npcs rebuild towns and actually new npcs merchants would come form other towns to work there (since the old merchants were killed by the attack if you didnt save any), etc. And it doesnt repeat, instead it keeps evolving. Players who missed X part of an event missed it for good, but when you log back you actually see the outcome of whatever you missed. Just like in real life. You missed something, you take part in whatever the outcome is and keep going from there. An ever evolving world.
Player generated content can help greatly form this progression system so we dont have to depend on heavily themeparkish ideas from devs, we could actually build our own progression as we play, with the help of ever evolving dynamic events and sandbox elements.
Just sharing my ideas. i would totally enjoy that long term. Like i said before, GW2 set my standanrd in questing progression. I expect new mmos to have better questing than GW2, not old generic crappy stuff
This. I hated it when the devs of GW2 said that DEs changed the world. They did FOR 15 MINUTES. The mentality of it is. Awwww I missed this cool event WAAAAAAAAAAAH I WANNA DO IT WAAAAAAAAAAAAH. To see a world evolve and change would be awesome. For example in Kingdoms of Amalur I had an option to clear the area of spiders and save the village or help the spiders and clear the town. Both choices were PERMENANT. Thats how quests should work. A person clears a special named troll out in the forest and it turns out this was a the troll leaders mate which in turns causes the once shy trolls to attack the nearby towns until a group of people (think huge DEs in GW2) come along and clear out the trolls which in turn would make the area change.
The once prey of the trolls now thrives and cause new problems. ECT ECT
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
The premise of the entire thread is flawed. Fetch Quests are a tool for progression and as such that cow can be milked a long long long time but the issue here is to either have a cow with more than one udder or have multiple cows to allow differing forms of progression. To eliminate fetch quests is to eliminate one means of progression which, unless you're hit in the head as a young lad, is not a good thing. Just get the quests to have some interesting fluff, maybe some odd mechanics from time to time and leave em be, stop trying to innovate (fix something that ain't broke) when MMOs need diversity of progression and innovation within the fields of progression (ex: Vanguard had an interesting means of progression with 3 different paths, I've yet to see another MMO go in a similar way from the recent bunch).
Originally posted by Squeak69 BETTER QUESTION, explain in detail alternatives to this.
dynamic progression. A much longer, varied, improved version of GW2 events but without repeating. An actual simulation of a living world. I wouldnt need to kill 10 bears to collect one tooth form each bear. Why not instead i go out hunting the bears and they are actually hunting unaware people (npc and players) in the wild instead of just walking back n forth waiting for you to kill them.
What about you go out exploring and you kill some goblins on the way and a short while later you hear in town that the goblins are going mad (and take revenge) burning villages and actually killing NPCs. Similar to GW2 but more indepth so it doesnt just repeat the same event, instead the players who excel at crafting can help npcs rebuild towns and actually new npcs merchants would come form other towns to work there (since the old merchants were killed by the attack if you didnt save any), etc. And it doesnt repeat, instead it keeps evolving. Players who missed X part of an event missed it for good, but when you log back you actually see the outcome of whatever you missed. Just like in real life. You missed something, you take part in whatever the outcome is and keep going from there. An ever evolving world.
Player generated content can help greatly form this progression system so we dont have to depend on heavily themeparkish ideas from devs, we could actually build our own progression as we play, with the help of ever evolving dynamic events and sandbox elements.
Just sharing my ideas. i would totally enjoy that long term. Like i said before, GW2 set my standanrd in questing progression. I expect new mmos to have better questing than GW2, not old generic crappy stuff
This. I hated it when the devs of GW2 said that DEs changed the world. They did FOR 15 MINUTES. The mentality of it is. Awwww I missed this cool event WAAAAAAAAAAAH I WANNA DO IT WAAAAAAAAAAAAH. To see a world evolve and change would be awesome. For example in Kingdoms of Amalur I had an option to clear the area of spiders and save the village or help the spiders and clear the town. Both choices were PERMENANT. Thats how quests should work. A person clears a special named troll out in the forest and it turns out this was a the troll leaders mate which in turns causes the once shy trolls to attack the nearby towns until a group of people (think huge DEs in GW2) come along and clear out the trolls which in turn would make the area change.
The once prey of the trolls now thrives and cause new problems. ECT ECT
Originally posted by Squeak69 BETTER QUESTION, explain in detail alternatives to this.
Player A opens his "create quest window", this window looks like your regular quest window you see popup when talking to a quest giving NPC. But now there isn't any text in them and no rewards. Player A is a crafter, isn't able to get certain materials or resources but is able to create a quest. This might turn out being a simple fetch 0/10 hides but it is because the crafter needs those hides. He is able to place what every item he has in his inventory to be set as a reward or place credits for the rewards. Of course you could actually tie a story in the text field
These "quests" could be given as simple like you normaly would trade between 2 live players or be placed on player quest terminals.
I feel if someone could flesh out this type of idea these "fetch" quests actually could become more meaningfull.
Comments
Why do we need to expand this list? Quests is about dressing these 4 things up in different ways. Look at movies .. how many movies are based on "heroes beating the bad guy as an underdog"? It works.
May be MMOs should follow SP games better ... SP games have no problem making these 4 things fun and exciting.
More to the point, the publishers won't authorise the funding to make anything else.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I said it before and I’ll say it again, I am perfectly fine with these four standard quest lines. But obviously this thread exists because some are not fine with them. The only reason we are fine with them in SP games is because they are meant to be played for 40 hours or less. While MMOs are meant to be played for years. The failure of games that just reworded or upped the animation of these four quest genre proves that gamers can’t be fooled by trickery for long, or only a small percentage of them can.
The only reason I demand that people try and come up with alternative is to prove once and for all how futile it is to even try and expand this list, or to keep complaining about the list.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
That is the problem. MMOs are meant to have quantity over quality? May be they should be designed for shorter play span then everything will be fine.
Or just make combat fun. D2 last for a long time. D3 last as long (if not longer) than many MMO .. and it has nothing but kill stuff quests.
I agree with shiner421.
Sephiroso, the only point of tasks is to give players more xp. That being the case; and considering you feel quest dialogue is tedious, why not do away with tasks entirely; and just give the players the extra xp. Or, auto add all tasks to the player's journal, so when they kill 10 gnolls, ding ding they completed a quest (that they didn't even know they had). No need for NPC involvement.
BTW, the 90% metric you made up is pure fiction.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
MMORPG.com blog
The point is not the task, it is the "excuse" for the task to create atmosphere.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.I would kill a rat if it knocked me down from ledges which I need to access to get to the next area. (Very good incentive used in many platform games).
Yeah .. but note that you don't actually have to program that game to "turn the populace of the world into zombies". You just have to prevent the game from proceeding until you kill the rate.
The reason is in the writing, and can convey through text, VO or animation ... it is all dressing up.
Look at SP games ... you do the same kill quests .. it is "better" because they have better writers and provides better story around why you need to kill, and they convey that through VO, animation, and not reading a wall of text.
That is the way to go. Dress it up better.
The point is the xp. Or are you suggesting players would do tasks with no reward?
No. I am suggesting the point of a "quest" is to give an excuse to kill stuff (or collect stuff). Dress it up better, and keep the same reward. That is the way to make it better.
Exactly. Would you rather kill a rat because a guy told you to kill 10 rats, or would you rather kill a rat because it carries a deadly virus engeneered by an evil sorcerer to turn the populace of the world into zombies to do his bidding? Okay, maybe a bad example but you get the idea.Yeah .. but note that you don't actually have to program that game to "turn the populace of the world into zombies". You just have to prevent the game from proceeding until you kill the rate.
The reason is in the writing, and can convey through text, VO or animation ... it is all dressing up.
Yeah, and make the guy sound a little nuts and you've got a comedy.You could take it one step further, and create a GW2 style DE by seting a hidden timer once the quest is given and if the player(s) do not kill enough rats all the critters/animals in the zone switch from being neutral to being agressive (even towards NPCs). This would then trigger another set of quests to find the "cure" and gather the required items and give it to someone who needs to be kept alive while they apply the "cure".
This way a simple kill x rats can morph into a multistep quest:
1. Collect x ammount of "disseased" items from any/all the affected animals.
2. Once disease is known ... collect x amont of items or craft x amount of "cure"
3. Keeps generic healer npc alive while cure is given to animals.
You could make it very dynamic using scripts and DB flags to adjust hidden timer/affected animals/disease type/cure ... etc
Span that accross all the little "fetch" quests and it becomes a little more intersting. based on the creativity of the scripter and the freedom they are given all sorts of awesomeness could happen.
I agree with dress it up better comments, it is not that hard and makes things better.
Agreed. Branching and multi-stage is not exactly new ideas in questing. If a SP game can do that, there is no reason why a MMO cannot.
Whenever I think about this Egoraptor's "Mega Man vs. Mega Man X" comes to mind. "Mega Man!, Mega Man!
You do realize that you just described the chain questing system used by swtor? You have just given voice to an opinion I have had for some time now. GW2 stole their DE functionality from swtor.
BTW from your list:
1. is a Kill X of Y mob(s)
2. Collect x of y item drop(s)
3. is both a Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z, and a Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)
You wrapped up all four quest types in one chain. Now I am not saying that games don’t need better writing. I’m saying I don’t believe there is more than the four identified quests types.
FYI, I am working on my own game. I decided each faction would have three origin story lines, separated by societal class. The tiers could be unlocked by leveling a char to an unlock level like 75%-90% of max, Cash Shop unlock, or Subscription. The rural zone and story would have the new character visit several town members to learn basic skills, get familiar with zone layout, and get starting quests (Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)). This storyline would be heavy on tutorial and hand holding. This first half of your characters life will be growing up on a farm. It would mirror as I imagine it Luke Skywalkers early life. Preparing the field for planting (Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s) & Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z). Defend the crops from predators (Kill X of Y mob(s)). Maintain the fields and farm structures and equipment (Collect x of y item drop(s), & Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)). Lastly you would harvest the crops and take them to market(all four quest types). The mobs would be low aggression and non-packing attackers.
The second tier or suburban origin story line would be tutorial and hand-holding free, it would be considered normal difficulty level. The story would fit the setting but mirror the lower level. Get familiar with the zone, learn starting skills, get starting quest. quest would prepare you for your starting job or role. Mobs would be more aggressive and work in teams or packs.
The third and possibly final tier would be urban and or upper class, this would be the hardcore mode. I still think that there should be zone familiarization, and character introduction but how I and not yet sure. Right now it is still Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s). It may evolve into Discover x npc of y npc(s). Mobs will be most aggressive in this zone, actively hunting the player if need be.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
The problem about TOR is not their quest system, it is the implementation and details.
If the writing is better, if the NPCs don't speak only in like 3 posts, and events are showed in better scripted animations, then i may actually play the game.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
This. I hated it when the devs of GW2 said that DEs changed the world. They did FOR 15 MINUTES. The mentality of it is. Awwww I missed this cool event WAAAAAAAAAAAH I WANNA DO IT WAAAAAAAAAAAAH. To see a world evolve and change would be awesome. For example in Kingdoms of Amalur I had an option to clear the area of spiders and save the village or help the spiders and clear the town. Both choices were PERMENANT. Thats how quests should work. A person clears a special named troll out in the forest and it turns out this was a the troll leaders mate which in turns causes the once shy trolls to attack the nearby towns until a group of people (think huge DEs in GW2) come along and clear out the trolls which in turn would make the area change.
The once prey of the trolls now thrives and cause new problems. ECT ECT
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
100% agree.
I don´t play fetch quest MMOs anymore. Don´t give them any money and they will go away.
As long as people pay for egg collecting / boxes clicking, they will stay.
Player A opens his "create quest window", this window looks like your regular quest window you see popup when talking to a quest giving NPC. But now there isn't any text in them and no rewards. Player A is a crafter, isn't able to get certain materials or resources but is able to create a quest. This might turn out being a simple fetch 0/10 hides but it is because the crafter needs those hides. He is able to place what every item he has in his inventory to be set as a reward or place credits for the rewards. Of course you could actually tie a story in the text field
These "quests" could be given as simple like you normaly would trade between 2 live players or be placed on player quest terminals.
I feel if someone could flesh out this type of idea these "fetch" quests actually could become more meaningfull.
Kittens in puppy ourfits, playing with yarn formed into the shape of bones.