I'm really trying... It's just soooooo hard to get excited about a game that's 3 years away at the earliest.
This forum is ablaze with the game, I just can't get down with the excitement.
No worries. We still have 3 weeks to go.
We will begin testing a lot sooner than is typical for any MMO. We did that with Dark Age and it paid off well with our release. We have to do even better this time in terms of getting people in early and beating on things. That's one of the best things about KS, we will have a really solid core of highly motivated backers to draw on for testing. Frankly, we'll begin inviting people to help us earlier than I laid out in our tiers because we will have things like SH that can test out bits and pieces of our new tech while work continues on the main game.
Hopefully you'll continue to like what you see but if not, I appreciate the fact that you or anybody else is interested in seeing what happens with our game.
Very nice. Looking forward to trying out smack down. Maybe with those models. Soooo like the change to getting good performance and working up from there rather than awesome graphics and bad performance and culling issues. Nice shirt Mark.
Very nice. Looking forward to trying out smack down. Maybe with those models. Soooo like the change to getting good performance and working up from there rather than awesome graphics and bad performance and culling issues. Nice shirt Mark.
Yeah a definite good step. Performance is a huge part, but I have to say that so far the models exceeded my expectations for when the FP stated gameplay > graphics. So kudos to the very talented art team to some really nice 3D modems (and fully clothed as well), while trying not to pass a certain threshold.
Love the the tech demos they are pushing out, great stuff. As a developer Andrew is my kinda guy love dudes attitude.
If tehy can get a downloadable demo workign running that smackhammer thing with these models.. I think 4 mil will be doable
Step by step, inch by inch. Now, I think you are being just a tad optimistic (but thank you for that) but I don't hope that our continued updates of our in-house tech is helpful in our raise. In terms of merging the two code-bases, that's one of the reasons we are doing it this way. SH has the heavier network code while the rendering engine focus on well, rendering. This way we can iterate on both simultaneously with Andrew working on his tech and the other team working on SH.
Originally posted by supergfunk
That is awesome, being that each character you see is independently rendered w/o LoD applied on a mediocre mac at best...Impressive...I'm anxious to see how it will be with LoD, more detail and custom networking code they apply.
Thanks, Andrew will appreciate it. He was actually hesitant to put up this demo because his LODing code was not what he wanted to be yet and he knew he could get some additional improvement with just another day of optimizations. I asked him to save that for another day. As to the custom networking code, you couldn't be more right. Getting the rendering tech right is just one part of the equation Fortunately, Andrew has been down this path before of course when we were at Mtyhic together and this time, he doesn't have to deal with an outside engine and a complicated pre-existing code-base.
This is why I in our Kickstarter I talked about the difference between a demo using someone else's engine (easy for most engines) and tech demos based on our very early rendering engine. We will continue to post updates and new demos as the Kickstarter progresses.
Ya 4 might be overly optimistic, but with a demo like that if you make it donwloadable and plug a facebook sign in in there and/or share high scores.. next thing you know.. your servers are all fried up and down
While we are at it, I signed for the 180 because I want to help test. But I also want to give more money to you but not $750. Any chance of IT testing tier somewhere in the $500 nighborhood? Maybe a "Developer" tier, like early access to the api some toher developer goodies perhaps?
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Foggye
Originally posted by Burgundus
Very nice. Looking forward to trying out smack down. Maybe with those models. Soooo like the change to getting good performance and working up from there rather than awesome graphics and bad performance and culling issues. Nice shirt Mark.
Yeah a definite good step. Performance is a huge part, but I have to say that so far the models exceeded my expectations for when the FP stated gameplay > graphics. So kudos to the very talented art team to some really nice 3D modems (and fully clothed as well), while trying not to pass a certain threshold.
We will do even better given the development cycle of CU. Andrew really was sad that he couldn't have another day to improve performance more. We'll have the third part of the demo tomorrow morning with 1000 models. The FPS there isn't as good (but it still hovers around 30) but once he does his additional optimizations, it will improve.
Now, I don't expect us to have 1000K in battle at the same time but it's still a good start. Obviously, particle effects, terrain, etc., will also slow things down but we have ideas on how to deal with that too (just as other devs do as well). All in all, a very good start.
Originally posted by Searias
I am proud to be a backer of City State Entertainment and Camelot unchained. You guys Rock!
Thanks, I and everyone at CSE really appreciate it.
Originally posted by darkbalth you can donate more money in my name and i will test with you. Sadly wife would ony let me do 30 since we have a kid on the way
Could you get away with kicking in more and justifying it as investing in your kid's future.....of gaming.
Excited for the game. Someone mentioned it being 3 years out, but for me that doesn't seem so long as I have been thinking about all the new mmorpgs and what is wrong with them and talking with other gaming friends about these things for the last 6+ years. Finally I have found others that think the same so thank you to CSE and their foundational principals!
Yes, a brand new account here, finally have a reason for one.
Excited for the game. Someone mentioned it being 3 years out, but for me that doesn't seem so long as I have been thinking about all the new mmorpgs and what is wrong with them and talking with other gaming friends about these things for the last 6+ years. Finally I have found others that think the same so thank you to CSE and their foundational principals!
Yes, a brand new account here, finally have a reason for one.
Welcome to the CU mmorpg community.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by tlear
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by tlear
Love the the tech demos they are pushing out, great stuff. As a developer Andrew is my kinda guy love dudes attitude.
If tehy can get a downloadable demo workign running that smackhammer thing with these models.. I think 4 mil will be doable
Step by step, inch by inch. Now, I think you are being just a tad optimistic (but thank you for that) but I don't hope that our continued updates of our in-house tech is helpful in our raise. In terms of merging the two code-bases, that's one of the reasons we are doing it this way. SH has the heavier network code while the rendering engine focus on well, rendering. This way we can iterate on both simultaneously with Andrew working on his tech and the other team working on SH.
Originally posted by supergfunk
That is awesome, being that each character you see is independently rendered w/o LoD applied on a mediocre mac at best...Impressive...I'm anxious to see how it will be with LoD, more detail and custom networking code they apply.
Thanks, Andrew will appreciate it. He was actually hesitant to put up this demo because his LODing code was not what he wanted to be yet and he knew he could get some additional improvement with just another day of optimizations. I asked him to save that for another day. As to the custom networking code, you couldn't be more right. Getting the rendering tech right is just one part of the equation Fortunately, Andrew has been down this path before of course when we were at Mtyhic together and this time, he doesn't have to deal with an outside engine and a complicated pre-existing code-base.
This is why I in our Kickstarter I talked about the difference between a demo using someone else's engine (easy for most engines) and tech demos based on our very early rendering engine. We will continue to post updates and new demos as the Kickstarter progresses.
Ya 4 might be overly optimistic, but with a demo like that if you make it donwloadable and plug a facebook sign in in there and/or share high scores.. next thing you know.. your servers are all fried up and down
While we are at it, I signed for the 180 because I want to help test. But I also want to give more money to you but not $750. Any chance of IT testing tier somewhere in the $500 nighborhood? Maybe a "Developer" tier, like early access to the api some toher developer goodies perhaps?
As I've told everyone who has asked for a more expensive tier with IT access, please don't. Take the tier that you really want to take (even if it is less expensive than the $110 tier) and then help us out during pre-production on our forums. As you know, I made the $180 less attractive and with fewer numbers to both drive people away from it (the $110 is a better tier) and to leave plenty of room for us to move people from our forums into the early testing slots. It's not like I don't want additional money but I would rather have happy backers (given the whole "I can't let everyone into IT, it would be chaos thing").
You and other people who show that they can be helpful on our forums, look at things with an objective eye (especially when that means criticism) and can communicate with us without flaming, yelling, etc. (and do understand why, at times, debate has to end) will be able to move into the earlier slots.
So, pick the tier that has the rewards you really want (downgrade or upgrade) and then wait for the forums to open. Saying what I'm about to say is troll-bait but, I will need the help and support of our backers if we want to make this a great game. Most of them will have played more MMORPGs than even me and even though I can come with some BSC ideas and even ideas that have proven to have longevity, I also have my dumb ideas because I'm willing and able to take real risks again. It will be with the help of our backers to tell me/us when that is happening and also to help us by giving us good ideas just as has already happened here and our other hangouts.
Tlear, thanks for your support now and going forward.
Originally posted by darkbalth you can donate more money in my name and i will test with you. Sadly wife would ony let me do 30 since we have a kid on the way
Congratulations! Happy and healthy to all of you! There should be new baby kickstarters! College fund in 30 days!!
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath
As I've told everyone who has asked for a more expensive tier with IT access, please don't. Take the tier that you really want to take (even if it is less expensive than the $110 tier) and then help us out during pre-production on our forums. As you know, I made the $180 less attractive and with fewer numbers to both drive people away from it (the $110 is a better tier) and to leave plenty of room for us to move people from our forums into the early testing slots. It's not like I don't want additional money but I would rather have happy backers (given the whole "I can't let everyone into IT, it would be chaos thing").
You and other people who show that they can be helpful on our forums, look at things with an objective eye (especially when that means criticism) and can communicate with us without flaming, yelling, etc. (and do understand why, at times, debate has to end) will be able to move into the earlier slots.
So, pick the tier that has the rewards you really want (downgrade or upgrade) and then wait for the forums to open. Saying what I'm about to say is troll-bait but, I will need the help and support of our backers if we want to make this a great game. Most of them will have played more MMORPGs than even me and even though I can come with some BSC ideas and even ideas that have proven to have longevity, I also have my dumb ideas because I'm willing and able to take real risks again. It will be with the help of our backers to tell me/us when that is happening and also to help us by giving us good ideas just as has already happened here and our other hangouts.
Tlear, thanks for your support now and going forward.
Time to get back to email responses on the KS.
Thanks Mark I understand what you are saying, but then I have to try and decide between more tiers! I think I will stick with 180 and maybe grab the extra FP for $50
That's a lot of models, we can agree on that. But from my experience, the amount of characters is not the biggest factor about performance. On some next update, i would like to see half or even 1/3 of them doing some kind of heavy AoE spellcasting and check the results again.
As far i can remember, that was a problem in DAoC also. Everything went fine, until these Runemasters and Thanes started casting. -A little bit of nostalgia at the end-
That's a lot of models, we can agree on that. But from my experience, the amount of characters is not the biggest factor about performance. On some next update, i would like to see half or even 1/3 of them doing some kind of heavy AoE spellcasting and check the results again.
As far i can remember, that was a problem in DAoC also. Everything went fine, until these Runemasters and Thanes started casting. -A little bit of nostalgia at the end-
That's a lot of models, we can agree on that. But from my experience, the amount of characters is not the biggest factor about performance. On some next update, i would like to see half or even 1/3 of them doing some kind of heavy AoE spellcasting and check the results again.
As far i can remember, that was a problem in DAoC also. Everything went fine, until these Runemasters and Thanes started casting. -A little bit of nostalgia at the end-
I don't think that has been a problem for a long time. I don't know if it was an engine change or a computer change, but spell effects seem almost inconsequential in DAOC at this point (up until things get crazy, anyway - sure)
As I've told everyone who has asked for a more expensive tier with IT access, please don't. Take the tier that you really want to take (even if it is less expensive than the $110 tier) and then help us out during pre-production on our forums. As you know, I made the $180 less attractive and with fewer numbers to both drive people away from it (the $110 is a better tier) and to leave plenty of room for us to move people from our forums into the early testing slots. It's not like I don't want additional money but I would rather have happy backers (given the whole "I can't let everyone into IT, it would be chaos thing").
You and other people who show that they can be helpful on our forums, look at things with an objective eye (especially when that means criticism) and can communicate with us without flaming, yelling, etc. (and do understand why, at times, debate has to end) will be able to move into the earlier slots.
So, pick the tier that has the rewards you really want (downgrade or upgrade) and then wait for the forums to open. Saying what I'm about to say is troll-bait but, I will need the help and support of our backers if we want to make this a great game. Most of them will have played more MMORPGs than even me and even though I can come with some BSC ideas and even ideas that have proven to have longevity, I also have my dumb ideas because I'm willing and able to take real risks again. It will be with the help of our backers to tell me/us when that is happening and also to help us by giving us good ideas just as has already happened here and our other hangouts.
Tlear, thanks for your support now and going forward.
Time to get back to email responses on the KS.
Thanks Mark I understand what you are saying, but then I have to try and decide between more tiers! I think I will stick with 180 and maybe grab the extra FP for $50
I would like to pickup the warrior forever tier but am unwilling to give up my spot on the IT tier. Would suck to to switch tiers and then not make it into IT testing.
Awesome update. Can't wait to see the next game engine update and more video's on SmackHammer.
Nice demo video, I like the rotation popping (of course that would be fixed)
500 to 1000 models in a fight is realistic ? hmm.. from a technology to fluid game play stand point (what did you mean by fluid combat MJ in a previous video), sorry I'm calling BS on this one, would be nice to see how you are going to accomplish this monumental feat, and If you do it will make gaming history.
Nice demo video, I like the rotation popping (of course that would be fixed)
500 to 1000 models in a fight is realistic ? hmm.. from a technology to fluid game play stand point (what did you mean by fluid combat MJ in a previous video), sorry I'm calling BS on this one, would be nice to see how you are going to accomplish this monumental feat, and If you do it will make gaming history.
I think it is realistic if the networking can keep up. I am not concerned about the graphics keeping up very much at all. A Macbook Pro from 2011 will be nothing compared to an average gaming PC in 2015 - even a $500 PC in 2015 will be multiple times as powerful as that Macbook Pro from 2011. My gaming PC right now, also from 2011, annihilates that Macbook Pro, and the one I build for CU will annihilate the one I have now (hello Broadwell and the GeForce 800 series, or the AMD 9000 series). By keeping the models at a relatively low detail, combined with two years of progressive hardware improvements, it is very possible to have a fully rendered battle between 500 players not bog down on the client end.
Keep in mind that with LOD and even your own field of view, you will not need to render all 500 players at once, and not all at the same detail. Chances are you will only have a fraction of that in your field of view, and only a fraction of that right up in your face. So you may only need to render 200 at once, with only 50 of them being really close, and even that is on the high side, I think.
The networking end, though, may be the tricky part. Keeping latency low while tracking 500 players in a small area and updating all 500 players as to the actions of the other 499 may take some doing. If they pull this off well, that will be the more impressive part.
Comments
That is great. Keep up the good work Mark+CSE.
Cypz/Cypress
MLF(Alb)/Mordred/Lamorak(Mid)
Very nice. Looking forward to trying out smack down. Maybe with those models. Soooo like the change to getting good performance and working up from there rather than awesome graphics and bad performance and culling issues. Nice shirt Mark.
Yeah a definite good step. Performance is a huge part, but I have to say that so far the models exceeded my expectations for when the FP stated gameplay > graphics. So kudos to the very talented art team to some really nice 3D modems (and fully clothed as well), while trying not to pass a certain threshold.
I am proud to be a backer of City State Entertainment and Camelot unchained. You guys Rock!
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Nice. Really cool to see CSE
being proactive in addressing concerns commonly voiced on the forums.
Ya 4 might be overly optimistic, but with a demo like that if you make it donwloadable and plug a facebook sign in in there and/or share high scores.. next thing you know.. your servers are all fried up and down
While we are at it, I signed for the 180 because I want to help test. But I also want to give more money to you
but not $750. Any chance of IT testing tier somewhere in the $500 nighborhood? Maybe a "Developer" tier, like early access to the api some toher developer goodies perhaps?
We will do even better given the development cycle of CU. Andrew really was sad that he couldn't have another day to improve performance more. We'll have the third part of the demo tomorrow morning with 1000 models. The FPS there isn't as good (but it still hovers around 30) but once he does his additional optimizations, it will improve.
Now, I don't expect us to have 1000K in battle at the same time but it's still a good start. Obviously, particle effects, terrain, etc., will also slow things down but we have ideas on how to deal with that too (just as other devs do as well). All in all, a very good start.
Thanks, I and everyone at CSE really appreciate it.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Could you get away with kicking in more and justifying it as investing in your kid's future.....of gaming.
Excited for the game. Someone mentioned it being 3 years out, but for me that doesn't seem so long as I have been thinking about all the new mmorpgs and what is wrong with them and talking with other gaming friends about these things for the last 6+ years. Finally I have found others that think the same so thank you to CSE and their foundational principals!
Yes, a brand new account here, finally have a reason for one.
I thought i read that some non backers will be testers as well (less then $80 backers i would assume would be included) ??Welcome to the CU mmorpg community.
As I've told everyone who has asked for a more expensive tier with IT access, please don't. Take the tier that you really want to take (even if it is less expensive than the $110 tier) and then help us out during pre-production on our forums. As you know, I made the $180 less attractive and with fewer numbers to both drive people away from it (the $110 is a better tier) and to leave plenty of room for us to move people from our forums into the early testing slots. It's not like I don't want additional money but I would rather have happy backers (given the whole "I can't let everyone into IT, it would be chaos thing").
You and other people who show that they can be helpful on our forums, look at things with an objective eye (especially when that means criticism) and can communicate with us without flaming, yelling, etc. (and do understand why, at times, debate has to end) will be able to move into the earlier slots.
So, pick the tier that has the rewards you really want (downgrade or upgrade) and then wait for the forums to open. Saying what I'm about to say is troll-bait but, I will need the help and support of our backers if we want to make this a great game. Most of them will have played more MMORPGs than even me and even though I can come with some BSC ideas and even ideas that have proven to have longevity, I also have my dumb ideas because I'm willing and able to take real risks again. It will be with the help of our backers to tell me/us when that is happening and also to help us by giving us good ideas just as has already happened here and our other hangouts.
Tlear, thanks for your support now and going forward.
Time to get back to email responses on the KS.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Congratulations! Happy and healthy to all of you! There should be new baby kickstarters! College fund in 30 days!!
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath
Thanks Mark I understand what you are saying, but then I have to try and decide between more tiers! I think I will stick with 180 and maybe grab the extra FP for $50
That's a lot of models, we can agree on that. But from my experience, the amount of characters is not the biggest factor about performance. On some next update, i would like to see half or even 1/3 of them doing some kind of heavy AoE spellcasting and check the results again.
As far i can remember, that was a problem in DAoC also. Everything went fine, until these Runemasters and Thanes started casting. -A little bit of nostalgia at the end-
mmmm.. the infamous laghammers/lagspears.
Well, seems they are trying to build the engine a piece at a time in order to optimize it to avoid such issues w/ lag etc.
I don't think that has been a problem for a long time. I don't know if it was an engine change or a computer change, but spell effects seem almost inconsequential in DAOC at this point (up until things get crazy, anyway - sure)
I would like to pickup the warrior forever tier but am unwilling to give up my spot on the IT tier. Would suck to to switch tiers and then not make it into IT testing.
Awesome update. Can't wait to see the next game engine update and more video's on SmackHammer.
Careful some might take your statement as being positive. Don't want to ruin all the negativeness you've built up over the past couple days.
Regardless looks awesome!
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
Nice demo video, I like the rotation popping (of course that would be fixed)
500 to 1000 models in a fight is realistic ? hmm.. from a technology to fluid game play stand point (what did you mean by fluid combat MJ in a previous video), sorry I'm calling BS on this one, would be nice to see how you are going to accomplish this monumental feat, and If you do it will make gaming history.
I think it is realistic if the networking can keep up. I am not concerned about the graphics keeping up very much at all. A Macbook Pro from 2011 will be nothing compared to an average gaming PC in 2015 - even a $500 PC in 2015 will be multiple times as powerful as that Macbook Pro from 2011. My gaming PC right now, also from 2011, annihilates that Macbook Pro, and the one I build for CU will annihilate the one I have now (hello Broadwell and the GeForce 800 series, or the AMD 9000 series). By keeping the models at a relatively low detail, combined with two years of progressive hardware improvements, it is very possible to have a fully rendered battle between 500 players not bog down on the client end.
Keep in mind that with LOD and even your own field of view, you will not need to render all 500 players at once, and not all at the same detail. Chances are you will only have a fraction of that in your field of view, and only a fraction of that right up in your face. So you may only need to render 200 at once, with only 50 of them being really close, and even that is on the high side, I think.
The networking end, though, may be the tricky part. Keeping latency low while tracking 500 players in a small area and updating all 500 players as to the actions of the other 499 may take some doing. If they pull this off well, that will be the more impressive part.