or CSE could take the route of most companies and find some investors or take out a business loan. and while companies may look at the CU KS for some input on how many people are interested. they will also look at DAoC, WAR, GW2, and TESO. also if the KS fails companies might look to other reasons other than just player interest.
-not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project
-KS project with just an idea, no actual product yet (prototype or otherwise)
-game design issues (no pve for example)
CU is not the end all be all.
They do have another million that is willing to be invested (in addition to MJ's 2) but only if the KS is successful enough. Investors aren't magical creatures that just hand out money when asked for it, there are contracts made with demands that have to be met. Taking out a loan is much easier said than done especially when you don't know the extent of demand for your game.
While your assertion that not everyone is willing to back a KS project is correct it doesn't make KS a bad place for such a project.
KS projects do not have an unwritten rule that requires a prototype or gameplay videos or anything beyond an idea/concept. Choosing not to fund a KS project that begins as an idea simply because it is an idea is like walking on to a car lot and choosing not to buy a car because it is just a car. You know exactly what it is before making any decision. Having no faith is something else entirely, having trust issues with the project lead is also another issue. Those are both valid reasons for not backing, as is not backing because you simply do not like the idea.
Lack of PvE progression is not a design issue, it is catering to a niche audience. EVE being in space is not a design issue, it is an inherent feature of the game just like no PvE progression would be for CU.
I've yet to see any reasoning anywhere that can explain to me why people that aren't interested in the game keep coming to this forum to talk about why it's dumb for people to be excited about a game. Obviously we see something in it that we like and think is worth our money. I don't care if you don't like my game. Go back to your forum and post there about why your game is better than my game. It's as if there is some form of jealousy here and you're all worried that CU will be more successful than your game. But why?
At the top of my page right now I'm looking at the banner ad for Moon Light Online. I have no clue what that game is, but it doesn't draw my attention. That doesn't mean that I'm going to their forum to tell the game's fans that they're stupid for supporting the game.
For some people these forums are not just a place to discuss stuff they are interested in. For them, these forums are a game unto itself. This is just pvp in a different medium. They are zerging. Good thing we have pretty good CC.
I see a lot of people saying "I'll buy it if it gets made" or " I'm interested in the idea, but I won't fund it".
The thing is, as has been said several times before, if the KS doesn't fund, this game WON'T GET MADE.
Not by CSE, or by any other company.
Be sure that other gaming companies will be watching this KS, and if it fails, they won't even bother thinking about putting meaningful RvR in their games, as the KS will have "proved" to them that people don't want it.
If you 'd like to play a game like CU , then the only way is to help it get made. Simple as that.
or CSE could take the route of most companies and find some investors or take out a business loan. and while companies may look at the CU KS for some input on how many people are interested. they will also look at DAoC, WAR, GW2, and TESO. also if the KS fails companies might look to other reasons other than just player interest.
-not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project
-KS project with just an idea, no actual product yet (prototype or otherwise)
-game design issues (no pve for example)
CU is not the end all be all.
The BIG difference between DAoC, WAR, GW2, TESO, etc.. and CU is that you HAVE to PvE to be able to compete in RvR. Even if in some it's just to get to the max level, although i don't remember being one that you didn't need to PvE for the stuff too. The other reasons than players interest?
-That's true not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project. But can you really call that "invest" when you just give $5 or $1? If you are even just a little interested, you give that.
-The KS project is just an idea? But that's exactly the whole point of this KS, to see if there are people interested by that idea... How do you expect anyone else to build a game based on that idea when KS clearly showed nobody like it?
- No PvE being a game design issue? Are you serious? Like i just said, the MAIN idea of this game is to have RvR WITHOUT having to do hundreds of hours of BORING and POINTLESS PvE grind to get to a competitive level with stuff and armour.
If KS fail, it WILL be the end of that idea, and there will be NO game before at least a very long time with what we want, meaning RvR right of the bat without having to spend hours preparing for it.
I see a lot of people saying "I'll buy it if it gets made" or " I'm interested in the idea, but I won't fund it".
The thing is, as has been said several times before, if the KS doesn't fund, this game WON'T GET MADE.
Not by CSE, or by any other company.
Be sure that other gaming companies will be watching this KS, and if it fails, they won't even bother thinking about putting meaningful RvR in their games, as the KS will have "proved" to them that people don't want it.
If you 'd like to play a game like CU , then the only way is to help it get made. Simple as that.
or CSE could take the route of most companies and find some investors or take out a business loan. and while companies may look at the CU KS for some input on how many people are interested. they will also look at DAoC, WAR, GW2, and TESO. also if the KS fails companies might look to other reasons other than just player interest.
-not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project
-KS project with just an idea, no actual product yet (prototype or otherwise)
-game design issues (no pve for example)
CU is not the end all be all.
The BIG difference between DAoC, WAR, GW2, TESO, etc.. and CU is that you HAVE to PvE to be able to compete in RvR. Even if in some it's just to get to the max level, although i don't remember being one that you didn't need to PvE for the stuff too. The other reasons than players interest?
-That's true not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project. But can you really call that "invest" when you just give $5 or $1? If you are even just a little interested, you give that.
-The KS project is just an idea? But that's exactly the whole point of this KS, to see if there are people interested by that idea... How do you expect anyone else to build a game based on that idea when KS clearly showed nobody like it?
- No PvE being a game design issue? Are you serious? Like i just said, the MAIN idea of this game is to have RvR WITHOUT having to do hundreds of hours of BORING and POINTLESS PvE grind to get to a competitive level with stuff and armour.
If KS fail, it WILL be the end of that idea, and there will be NO game before at least a very long time with what we want, meaning RvR right of the bat without having to spend hours preparing for it.
little off topic but you can do this in gw2.. from level 2 you can jump into WvW and join with a group and spend your entire time playing the game just in WvW..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I've yet to see any reasoning anywhere that can explain to me why people that aren't interested in the game keep coming to this forum to talk about why it's dumb for people to be excited about a game. Obviously we see something in it that we like and think is worth our money. I don't care if you don't like my game. Go back to your forum and post there about why your game is better than my game. It's as if there is some form of jealousy here and you're all worried that CU will be more successful than your game. But why?
At the top of my page right now I'm looking at the banner ad for Moon Light Online. I have no clue what that game is, but it doesn't draw my attention. That doesn't mean that I'm going to their forum to tell the game's fans that they're stupid for supporting the game.
Why do people do that?
Well, there is a place on that site on which you can see all the new posts from all the forums, and they are sick of being spammed by CU. And i understand that. It was just to tell you such a page existed and those people weren't coming to our forum in particular.
I see a lot of people saying "I'll buy it if it gets made" or " I'm interested in the idea, but I won't fund it".
The thing is, as has been said several times before, if the KS doesn't fund, this game WON'T GET MADE.
Not by CSE, or by any other company.
Be sure that other gaming companies will be watching this KS, and if it fails, they won't even bother thinking about putting meaningful RvR in their games, as the KS will have "proved" to them that people don't want it.
If you 'd like to play a game like CU , then the only way is to help it get made. Simple as that.
or CSE could take the route of most companies and find some investors or take out a business loan. and while companies may look at the CU KS for some input on how many people are interested. they will also look at DAoC, WAR, GW2, and TESO. also if the KS fails companies might look to other reasons other than just player interest.
-not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project
-KS project with just an idea, no actual product yet (prototype or otherwise)
-game design issues (no pve for example)
CU is not the end all be all.
The BIG difference between DAoC, WAR, GW2, TESO, etc.. and CU is that you HAVE to PvE to be able to compete in RvR. Even if in some it's just to get to the max level, although i don't remember being one that you didn't need to PvE for the stuff too. The other reasons than players interest?
-That's true not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project. But can you really call that "invest" when you just give $5 or $1? If you are even just a little interested, you give that.
-The KS project is just an idea? But that's exactly the whole point of this KS, to see if there are people interested by that idea... How do you expect anyone else to build a game based on that idea when KS clearly showed nobody like it?
- No PvE being a game design issue? Are you serious? Like i just said, the MAIN idea of this game is to have RvR WITHOUT having to do hundreds of hours of BORING and POINTLESS PvE grind to get to a competitive level with stuff and armour.
If KS fail, it WILL be the end of that idea, and there will be NO game before at least a very long time with what we want, meaning RvR right of the bat without having to spend hours preparing for it.
little off topic but you can do this in gw2.. from level 2 you can jump into WvW and join with a group and spend your entire time playing the game just in WvW..
I don't know about GW2, but even in DAoC you can get to the battlegrounds right away, with people from around you level. And i can tell you than unless you aren't at the max level (doesn't matter as much in the higher bgs, but still) of the bg and have decent stuff, you won't have any hope of doing much.
As a lvl 2 in GW, can you hope to do enough damage to make a kill in a fight, or enough heal to save an ally, or whatever your role is? Not necessarily 1vs1, even in the chaos, and with the best case scenario being you are left alone to cast/shoot/swing whatever it is in this game.
Again, and I have said this before, we are sorry for clogging up the feed, but we can't help it if our forum activity shows up on it. It's the site design (one about which I am not complaining. I love this site.)
We can all, in light of this, probably make an effort to be more civil, on both sides.
I don't know about GW2, but even in DAoC you can get to the battlegrounds right away, with people from around you level. And i can tell you than unless you aren't at the max level (doesn't matter as much in the higher bgs, but still) of the bg and have decent stuff, you won't have any hope of doing much.
As a lvl 2 in GW, can you hope to do enough damage to make a kill in a fight, or enough heal to save an ally, or whatever your role is? Not necessarily 1vs1, even in the chaos, and with the best case scenario being you are left alone to cast/shoot/swing whatever it is in this game.
yes you can in gw2 as your stats are boosted to level 80 and good player can actually do quite a bit right out the gate to help out their team.. for me WvW doesn't offer enough to play it full time like that but you can easily do that and be effective if that's your thing
on your edit that's obviously subjective and has nothing to do with what we are talking about
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I've yet to see any reasoning anywhere that can explain to me why people that aren't interested in the game keep coming to this forum to talk about why it's dumb for people to be excited about a game. Obviously we see something in it that we like and think is worth our money. I don't care if you don't like my game. Go back to your forum and post there about why your game is better than my game. It's as if there is some form of jealousy here and you're all worried that CU will be more successful than your game. But why?
At the top of my page right now I'm looking at the banner ad for Moon Light Online. I have no clue what that game is, but it doesn't draw my attention. That doesn't mean that I'm going to their forum to tell the game's fans that they're stupid for supporting the game.
Why do people do that?
An overwhelming need to project their unhappiness onto others and/or an overwhelming need for attention in either a negative or positive way but attention regardless. We've all had them in our classroom as children and even at various places of employment. On the internet these mysterious creatures are known as the ever elusive troll. Their diet consists of unknown objects/comments and fast/junk food, their exercise habits are questionable and their numbers are growing.
Yeah, criticism is for stupid ADHD children that need attention. Unquestioning faith is for the enlightened person.
Your sarcasm has increased by 1!
Apparently mine was lost.
Don't mistake having an open mind for unquestioning faith.
Well, there is a place on that site on which you can see all the new posts from all the forums, and they are sick of being spammed by CU. And i understand that. It was just to tell you such a page existed and those people weren't coming to our forum in particular.
LOL! If we manage to get the KS funded, we'll all be off to the CU backer forums, and - hey presto! No more CU spam!
Either way, in 20 days, we're going to shut up :P
However, even if they do see loads of CU threads popping up on the new thread ticker thingy, why would they want to go and post on them? Surely, that would make them pop up even more?
I see a lot of people saying "I'll buy it if it gets made" or " I'm interested in the idea, but I won't fund it".
The thing is, as has been said several times before, if the KS doesn't fund, this game WON'T GET MADE.
Not by CSE, or by any other company.
Be sure that other gaming companies will be watching this KS, and if it fails, they won't even bother thinking about putting meaningful RvR in their games, as the KS will have "proved" to them that people don't want it.
If you 'd like to play a game like CU , then the only way is to help it get made. Simple as that.
or CSE could take the route of most companies and find some investors or take out a business loan. and while companies may look at the CU KS for some input on how many people are interested. they will also look at DAoC, WAR, GW2, and TESO. also if the KS fails companies might look to other reasons other than just player interest.
-not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project
-KS project with just an idea, no actual product yet (prototype or otherwise)
-game design issues (no pve for example)
CU is not the end all be all.
The BIG difference between DAoC, WAR, GW2, TESO, etc.. and CU is that you HAVE to PvE to be able to compete in RvR. Even if in some it's just to get to the max level, although i don't remember being one that you didn't need to PvE for the stuff too. The other reasons than players interest?
-That's true not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project. But can you really call that "invest" when you just give $5 or $1? If you are even just a little interested, you give that.
-The KS project is just an idea? But that's exactly the whole point of this KS, to see if there are people interested by that idea... How do you expect anyone else to build a game based on that idea when KS clearly showed nobody like it?
- No PvE being a game design issue? Are you serious? Like i just said, the MAIN idea of this game is to have RvR WITHOUT having to do hundreds of hours of BORING and POINTLESS PvE grind to get to a competitive level with stuff and armour.
If KS fail, it WILL be the end of that idea, and there will be NO game before at least a very long time with what we want, meaning RvR right of the bat without having to spend hours preparing for it.
the point i was trying to make is that not many mmo's don't have pve. that could easily be seen as a design issue to other companies. (i could care less either way)
im not sure about DAoC or WAR but in gw2 you can jum into RvR right after the tutorial. and in teso you will be able to a few hours into the game.
and yes. even if it's $1 it is investing.
Invest - Verb
Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property,
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
i didn't fund pathfinder specifically because the early pre-alpha footage looked awful to me.. so it's not really always the best idea to show stuff that is hardly even in the alpha stage.. i think the character renders they showed for CU were fine but the big 1000 character fight video was pointless imho
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I do not believe that if this KS fails it will be a blessing in any way, shape, or form. It will only serve to promote the somewhat awkward notion that in order to successfully fund a game through or even with the help of KS you have to have funding already which is pretty contrary to the idea behind Kickstarter (it is in the name).
PvP focused MMOs are a niche already, an MMO with progression through PvP based activities only is a niche within that niche and that is not an unknown piece of information. Trying to say that a single person should drop $2 million on a potential no go to demonstrate his passionate is pretty ridiculous, 2 million dollars (of the man's personal money) is a huge amount of money to spend on something that may or may not have a large enough target audience. Getting a feel for the size of your audience and just what they want to see in a game of this nature is a much smarter move if they hope to have a chance of long term success. Not only does it provide a small studio with a better sense of the size of the target audience for their very niche game concept but doing it in this way also allows that target audience to participate from the point of creation and have some very real impact on the game itself rather than just be told "This is what you are getting, deal with it."
And yes, backing a project of this nature also helps to promote the development of games by smaller studios and without the leash of a major publisher. Not necessarily saying that you will be "Sticking it to the man", but more along the lines of that you will be helping to promote the notion of KS as a viable alternative source of funding for niche games. The more successful projects the more viable said alternative will look to future individuals/groups/studios/etc. Will this one project fundamentally alter the state of the entire gaming industry? Probably not, but not backing (especially if you like the idea but not necessarily the execution) is not helping anything.
Are there items that could have been better addressed before the KS began? Absolutely, you would probably be hard pressed to find an example of a perfectly executed KS campaign if one even exists. Are there things this team has done better than others up until this point? Again, yes. Unlike some projects you know exactly where this one is in progression, you have not been shown a "gameplay" video using an engine that may or may not be used simply to get you to open your wallet. Instead you have been shown a proof of concept which was stated as such and then shown an evolution of that and promised further iterations as a means by which to judge the team behind the project. You have been told up front about the length of development and the expected alpha/beta invite times and that they may or may not change.
If you do not wish to back the project I am pretty sure that nobody is forcing you to, I doubt anyone is holding a virtual or physical gun to your head telling you to click the green button. But if you are not backing on the basis that you haven't been shown enough flashy artwork or videos or have a problem with their website or with their execution then you are missing the point. Right now it is about the idea, if you choose to back this idea then great. If you choose not to back the idea just yet because you are waiting for more substance before you decide then hopefully you see what you want before the end. If you choose not to back it simply because it does not appeal to you then I sincerely hope you do back projects that do as that is the whole point. But if you choose not to back the idea because it is only an idea then I honestly do not know what can be said to you.
I agree with that post, it is well written and i was going to do one similar, but just didn't pay attention to that thread soon enough ^^
I would like to add something though :
"But if you choose not to back the idea because it is only an idea then I honestly do not know what can be said to you."
I, on the other hand, know. You should pledge $1 to increase the number of backer and show to the team if you are interested. The worst that can happen to you is to lose that $1, that's hardly something to worry about.
An overwhelming need to project their unhappiness onto others and/or an overwhelming need for attention in either a negative or positive way but attention regardless. We've all had them in our classroom as children and even at various places of employment. On the internet these mysterious creatures are known as the ever elusive troll. Their diet consists of unknown objects/comments and fast/junk food, their exercise habits are questionable and their numbers are growing.
Yeah, criticism is for stupid ADHD children that need attention. Unquestioning faith is for the enlightened person.
Your sarcasm has increased by 1!
Apparently mine was lost.
Don't mistake having an open mind for unquestioning faith.
Don't mistake criticism for "an overwhelming need to project their unhappiness onto others and/or and overwhelming need for attention in either a negative or positive way."
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
i didn't fund pathfinder specifically because the early pre-alpha footage looked awful to me.. so it's not really always the best idea to show stuff that is hardly even in the alpha stage.. i think the character renders they showed for CU were fine but the big 1000 character fight video was pointless imho
...I can agree with you on that; however, asking people to give up or pledge their hard earned money for a "set of ideas" is just not a good concept for a company or game platform to be built on. Look at GreedMonger, and the issues they are currently having.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I don't know about GW2, but even in DAoC you can get to the battlegrounds right away, with people from around you level. And i can tell you than unless you aren't at the max level (doesn't matter as much in the higher bgs, but still) of the bg and have decent stuff, you won't have any hope of doing much.
As a lvl 2 in GW, can you hope to do enough damage to make a kill in a fight, or enough heal to save an ally, or whatever your role is? Not necessarily 1vs1, even in the chaos, and with the best case scenario being you are left alone to cast/shoot/swing whatever it is in this game.
yes you can in gw2 as your stats are boosted to level 80 and good player can actually do quite a bit right out the gate to help out their team.. for me WvW doesn't offer enough to play it full time like that but you can easily do that and be effective if that's your thing
on your edit that's obviously subjective and has nothing to do with what we are talking about
Then it looks like PvP in GW2 is fine for a player that like PvP.
My edit is obviously subjective, yes, and that's because one of the other point of CU is to have RvR. Real RvR. Something that last. If i take a keep, i want it to stay mine until the enemy comes take it back. If i want something that reset every given time, then GW2 is good, but that's not what i want.
An overwhelming need to project their unhappiness onto others and/or an overwhelming need for attention in either a negative or positive way but attention regardless. We've all had them in our classroom as children and even at various places of employment. On the internet these mysterious creatures are known as the ever elusive troll. Their diet consists of unknown objects/comments and fast/junk food, their exercise habits are questionable and their numbers are growing.
Yeah, criticism is for stupid ADHD children that need attention. Unquestioning faith is for the enlightened person.
Your sarcasm has increased by 1!
Apparently mine was lost.
Don't mistake having an open mind for unquestioning faith.
Don't mistake criticism for "an overwhelming need to project their unhappiness onto others and/or and overwhelming need for attention in either a negative or positive way."
Hence the pointing out of the failed attempted sarcasm. The line was the same pre-canned thing used by parents/teachers/psychiatrists from probably before I was born and applying it to forum trolls was meant to be amusing
Valid criticism is a good thing, it helps people grow as individuals, companies to obtain a better understanding of their customers, and ideas/products/services to evolve into something better and perhaps even more efficient than would have been otherwise.
You cannot deny that some of them are just trolling though. Correction, maybe you can but it doesn't mean they aren't trolling.
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
i didn't fund pathfinder specifically because the early pre-alpha footage looked awful to me.. so it's not really always the best idea to show stuff that is hardly even in the alpha stage.. i think the character renders they showed for CU were fine but the big 1000 character fight video was pointless imho
...I can agree with you on that; however, asking people to give up or pledge their hard earned money for a "set of ideas" is just not a good concept for a company or game platform to be built on. Look at GreedMonger, and the issues they are currently having.
it should be a balance.. but honestly I can see a developer not wanting to spend thousands upon thousands making a tech demo in a project that may not even get enough interest to make a game a reality.. KS is a great way to gauge interest in a project imho and overall it is putting your money into ideas, it's ideas and philosophy of a game that would get me to pledge money not some pre-alpha tech demo that shows me pretty much nothing as the final game will probably look nothing like that
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I believe they needed a prototype/demo/something. If they fail they will simply have more time to assess what went wrong and make small steps in the right direction.
Well, there is a place on that site on which you can see all the new posts from all the forums, and they are sick of being spammed by CU. And i understand that. It was just to tell you such a page existed and those people weren't coming to our forum in particular.
LOL! If we manage to get the KS funded, we'll all be off to the CU backer forums, and - hey presto! No more CU spam!
Either way, in 20 days, we're going to shut up :P
However, even if they do see loads of CU threads popping up on the new thread ticker thingy, why would they want to go and post on them? Surely, that would make them pop up even more?
A case of cutting off noses to spite faces?
I didn't go to see it, but i think it was something like only 1 page with limited spots. So they only see the CU threads and so they can only talk there. We can't really complain about them spamming us in that case^^
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
i didn't fund pathfinder specifically because the early pre-alpha footage looked awful to me.. so it's not really always the best idea to show stuff that is hardly even in the alpha stage.. i think the character renders they showed for CU were fine but the big 1000 character fight video was pointless imho
...I can agree with you on that; however, asking people to give up or pledge their hard earned money for a "set of ideas" is just not a good concept for a company or game platform to be built on. Look at GreedMonger, and the issues they are currently having.
it should be a balance.. but honestly I can see a developer not wanting to spend thousands upon thousands making a tech demo in a project that may not even get enough interest to make a game a reality.. KS is a great way to gauge interest in a project imho and overall it is putting your money into ideas, it's ideas and philosophy of a game that would get me to pledge money not some pre-alpha tech demo that shows me pretty much nothing as the final game will probably look nothing like that
Just read the underlined part, and you will understand why there is no prototype:
Originally posted by Troianman
I do not believe that if this KS fails it will be a blessing in any way, shape, or form. It will only serve to promote the somewhat awkward notion that in order to successfully fund a game through or even with the help of KS you have to have funding already which is pretty contrary to the idea behind Kickstarter (it is in the name).
PvP focused MMOs are a niche already, an MMO with progression through PvP based activities only is a niche within that niche and that is not an unknown piece of information. Trying to say that a single person should drop $2 million on a potential no go to demonstrate his passionate is pretty ridiculous, 2 million dollars (of the man's personal money) is a huge amount of money to spend on something that may or may not have a large enough target audience. Getting a feel for the size of your audience and just what they want to see in a game of this nature is a much smarter move if they hope to have a chance of long term success. Not only does it provide a small studio with a better sense of the size of the target audience for their very niche game concept but doing it in this way also allows that target audience to participate from the point of creation and have some very real impact on the game itself rather than just be told "This is what you are getting, deal with it."
And yes, backing a project of this nature also helps to promote the development of games by smaller studios and without the leash of a major publisher. Not necessarily saying that you will be "Sticking it to the man", but more along the lines of that you will be helping to promote the notion of KS as a viable alternative source of funding for niche games. The more successful projects the more viable said alternative will look to future individuals/groups/studios/etc. Will this one project fundamentally alter the state of the entire gaming industry? Probably not, but not backing (especially if you like the idea but not necessarily the execution) is not helping anything.
Are there items that could have been better addressed before the KS began? Absolutely, you would probably be hard pressed to find an example of a perfectly executed KS campaign if one even exists. Are there things this team has done better than others up until this point? Again, yes. Unlike some projects you know exactly where this one is in progression, you have not been shown a "gameplay" video using an engine that may or may not be used simply to get you to open your wallet. Instead you have been shown a proof of concept which was stated as such and then shown an evolution of that and promised further iterations as a means by which to judge the team behind the project. You have been told up front about the length of development and the expected alpha/beta invite times and that they may or may not change.
If you do not wish to back the project I am pretty sure that nobody is forcing you to, I doubt anyone is holding a virtual or physical gun to your head telling you to click the green button. But if you are not backing on the basis that you haven't been shown enough flashy artwork or videos or have a problem with their website or with their execution then you are missing the point. Right now it is about the idea, if you choose to back this idea then great. If you choose not to back the idea just yet because you are waiting for more substance before you decide then hopefully you see what you want before the end. If you choose not to back it simply because it does not appeal to you then I sincerely hope you do back projects that do as that is the whole point. But if you choose not to back the idea because it is only an idea then I honestly do not know what can be said to you.
Originally posted by LuxferreGaming I believe they needed a prototype/demo/something. If they fail they will simply have more time to assess what went wrong and make small steps in the right direction.
The thing is, if they have done enough development to make a prototype or demo, why would they then need Kickstarter? Surely, most of the financial outlay is in getting the project to the prototype stage?
So, if they did that, they would have needed to find the 2 million from somewhere else. Investors maybe, who would probably want a say in how the game is made.
Who would want a game made that would give them a good return on their money.
Who would probably veto the more risky ideas, and end up causing the whole project to move away from the foundation principles and end up as another mass market, dumbed down affair.
Oh, and if they fail with the KS, no, they won't have more time to assess anything. They will stop development and do something else. They will not make the game unless it funds.
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
i didn't fund pathfinder specifically because the early pre-alpha footage looked awful to me.. so it's not really always the best idea to show stuff that is hardly even in the alpha stage.. i think the character renders they showed for CU were fine but the big 1000 character fight video was pointless imho
...I can agree with you on that; however, asking people to give up or pledge their hard earned money for a "set of ideas" is just not a good concept for a company or game platform to be built on. Look at GreedMonger, and the issues they are currently having.
it should be a balance.. but honestly I can see a developer not wanting to spend thousands upon thousands making a tech demo in a project that may not even get enough interest to make a game a reality.. KS is a great way to gauge interest in a project imho and overall it is putting your money into ideas, it's ideas and philosophy of a game that would get me to pledge money not some pre-alpha tech demo that shows me pretty much nothing as the final game will probably look nothing like that
Just read the underlined part, and you will understand why there is no prototype:
which is pretty much what i said i agree
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
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They do have another million that is willing to be invested (in addition to MJ's 2) but only if the KS is successful enough. Investors aren't magical creatures that just hand out money when asked for it, there are contracts made with demands that have to be met. Taking out a loan is much easier said than done especially when you don't know the extent of demand for your game.
While your assertion that not everyone is willing to back a KS project is correct it doesn't make KS a bad place for such a project.
KS projects do not have an unwritten rule that requires a prototype or gameplay videos or anything beyond an idea/concept. Choosing not to fund a KS project that begins as an idea simply because it is an idea is like walking on to a car lot and choosing not to buy a car because it is just a car. You know exactly what it is before making any decision. Having no faith is something else entirely, having trust issues with the project lead is also another issue. Those are both valid reasons for not backing, as is not backing because you simply do not like the idea.
Lack of PvE progression is not a design issue, it is catering to a niche audience. EVE being in space is not a design issue, it is an inherent feature of the game just like no PvE progression would be for CU.
I've yet to see any reasoning anywhere that can explain to me why people that aren't interested in the game keep coming to this forum to talk about why it's dumb for people to be excited about a game. Obviously we see something in it that we like and think is worth our money. I don't care if you don't like my game. Go back to your forum and post there about why your game is better than my game. It's as if there is some form of jealousy here and you're all worried that CU will be more successful than your game. But why?
At the top of my page right now I'm looking at the banner ad for Moon Light Online. I have no clue what that game is, but it doesn't draw my attention. That doesn't mean that I'm going to their forum to tell the game's fans that they're stupid for supporting the game.
Why do people do that?
For some people these forums are not just a place to discuss stuff they are interested in. For them, these forums are a game unto itself. This is just pvp in a different medium. They are zerging. Good thing we have pretty good CC.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
The BIG difference between DAoC, WAR, GW2, TESO, etc.. and CU is that you HAVE to PvE to be able to compete in RvR. Even if in some it's just to get to the max level, although i don't remember being one that you didn't need to PvE for the stuff too.
The other reasons than players interest?
-That's true not everyone is willing to invest into a KS project. But can you really call that "invest" when you just give $5 or $1? If you are even just a little interested, you give that.
-The KS project is just an idea? But that's exactly the whole point of this KS, to see if there are people interested by that idea... How do you expect anyone else to build a game based on that idea when KS clearly showed nobody like it?
- No PvE being a game design issue? Are you serious? Like i just said, the MAIN idea of this game is to have RvR WITHOUT having to do hundreds of hours of BORING and POINTLESS PvE grind to get to a competitive level with stuff and armour.
If KS fail, it WILL be the end of that idea, and there will be NO game before at least a very long time with what we want, meaning RvR right of the bat without having to spend hours preparing for it.
little off topic but you can do this in gw2.. from level 2 you can jump into WvW and join with a group and spend your entire time playing the game just in WvW..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Well, there is a place on that site on which you can see all the new posts from all the forums, and they are sick of being spammed by CU. And i understand that. It was just to tell you such a page existed and those people weren't coming to our forum in particular.
I don't know about GW2, but even in DAoC you can get to the battlegrounds right away, with people from around you level. And i can tell you than unless you aren't at the max level (doesn't matter as much in the higher bgs, but still) of the bg and have decent stuff, you won't have any hope of doing much.
As a lvl 2 in GW, can you hope to do enough damage to make a kill in a fight, or enough heal to save an ally, or whatever your role is? Not necessarily 1vs1, even in the chaos, and with the best case scenario being you are left alone to cast/shoot/swing whatever it is in this game.
EDIT : Besides, i heard WvW is awful with GW2.
We can all, in light of this, probably make an effort to be more civil, on both sides.
/carebear
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
yes you can in gw2 as your stats are boosted to level 80 and good player can actually do quite a bit right out the gate to help out their team.. for me WvW doesn't offer enough to play it full time like that but you can easily do that and be effective if that's your thing
on your edit that's obviously subjective and has nothing to do with what we are talking about
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Your sarcasm has increased by 1!
Apparently mine was lost.
Don't mistake having an open mind for unquestioning faith.
LOL! If we manage to get the KS funded, we'll all be off to the CU backer forums, and - hey presto! No more CU spam!
Either way, in 20 days, we're going to shut up :P
However, even if they do see loads of CU threads popping up on the new thread ticker thingy, why would they want to go and post on them? Surely, that would make them pop up even more?
A case of cutting off noses to spite faces?
the point i was trying to make is that not many mmo's don't have pve. that could easily be seen as a design issue to other companies. (i could care less either way)
im not sure about DAoC or WAR but in gw2 you can jum into RvR right after the tutorial. and in teso you will be able to a few hours into the game.
and yes. even if it's $1 it is investing.
Invest - Verb
^ I agree 100% .........need to have some sort of prototype, basic demo, or a pre alpha concept. To each their own, and its YOUR money to do what you wish; however, for me I wouldnt put a penny in without something to view.
They asked for this if it doesnt fund, my opinion.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
i didn't fund pathfinder specifically because the early pre-alpha footage looked awful to me.. so it's not really always the best idea to show stuff that is hardly even in the alpha stage.. i think the character renders they showed for CU were fine but the big 1000 character fight video was pointless imho
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I agree with that post, it is well written and i was going to do one similar, but just didn't pay attention to that thread soon enough ^^
I would like to add something though :
"But if you choose not to back the idea because it is only an idea then I honestly do not know what can be said to you."
I, on the other hand, know. You should pledge $1 to increase the number of backer and show to the team if you are interested. The worst that can happen to you is to lose that $1, that's hardly something to worry about.
Don't mistake criticism for "an overwhelming need to project their unhappiness onto others and/or and overwhelming need for attention in either a negative or positive way."
...I can agree with you on that; however, asking people to give up or pledge their hard earned money for a "set of ideas" is just not a good concept for a company or game platform to be built on. Look at GreedMonger, and the issues they are currently having.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Then it looks like PvP in GW2 is fine for a player that like PvP.
My edit is obviously subjective, yes, and that's because one of the other point of CU is to have RvR. Real RvR. Something that last. If i take a keep, i want it to stay mine until the enemy comes take it back. If i want something that reset every given time, then GW2 is good, but that's not what i want.
Hence the pointing out of the failed attempted sarcasm. The line was the same pre-canned thing used by parents/teachers/psychiatrists from probably before I was born and applying it to forum trolls was meant to be amusing
Valid criticism is a good thing, it helps people grow as individuals, companies to obtain a better understanding of their customers, and ideas/products/services to evolve into something better and perhaps even more efficient than would have been otherwise.
You cannot deny that some of them are just trolling though. Correction, maybe you can but it doesn't mean they aren't trolling.
it should be a balance.. but honestly I can see a developer not wanting to spend thousands upon thousands making a tech demo in a project that may not even get enough interest to make a game a reality.. KS is a great way to gauge interest in a project imho and overall it is putting your money into ideas, it's ideas and philosophy of a game that would get me to pledge money not some pre-alpha tech demo that shows me pretty much nothing as the final game will probably look nothing like that
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
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I didn't go to see it, but i think it was something like only 1 page with limited spots. So they only see the CU threads and so they can only talk there.
We can't really complain about them spamming us in that case^^
Just read the underlined part, and you will understand why there is no prototype:
The thing is, if they have done enough development to make a prototype or demo, why would they then need Kickstarter? Surely, most of the financial outlay is in getting the project to the prototype stage?
So, if they did that, they would have needed to find the 2 million from somewhere else. Investors maybe, who would probably want a say in how the game is made.
Who would want a game made that would give them a good return on their money.
Who would probably veto the more risky ideas, and end up causing the whole project to move away from the foundation principles and end up as another mass market, dumbed down affair.
Oh, and if they fail with the KS, no, they won't have more time to assess anything. They will stop development and do something else. They will not make the game unless it funds.
which is pretty much what i said i agree
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg