Something more than platitudes and wishful thinking on MJ's part. Also, MJ ACTUALLY PUTTING HIS OWN MONEY IN BEFORE KICKSTARTER. This would give many the idea he thinks this game will be produced. If you want people to back you, you have to actually show that you back your own ideas.
Alpha gameplay video. Also would like PvE but that is not in this game (based on what MJ has said) - so nothing would make me back the game
So I've seen a lot of posts where people say they need to know more info before they pledge. What info? They haven't built the game so they can't show in- game stuff. They don't have specific class information but they've told you exactly what to expect. They only have some concept art but Mark Jacobs has been very vocal about the art direction and style.
What specifically is keeping you from backing this project?
...Um everything. What did they give us, some ideas, a few "core principles" and some RULES......oooOoOoO I can type also. They showed a video with 500 avatars standing around, no fx's, no magic, no background graphs.....what will happen to framerate when they add that? Where is a video of thier basic engine showing some town/landscape/ or some fighting???
..... TO ME, MY opinion there is not enough info for ME to back it.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
There is no " specific " info missing really. Just not alot of concrete information. Concept art and ideas are really all we have. That and an in house " tech" demo that does not show much.
I am waiting until the end of the KS to see how things are going, if they need an extra push at the end I will donate $50 bucks to help out.
I think alot of people just are not going to donate to an idea with concept art basically. I am not sure why multiple posts asking why people wont donate is going to help. If nothing else some of the responses from the backers are having a negative effect. As well as people are probably getting tired of constant CU post spam and are just waiting for it to fail.
I personally do not care either way as I just read and comment on the posts I am interested in. But even as fans and backers you should see where some of this is actually hurting your cause.
So I've seen a lot of posts where people say they need to know more info before they pledge. What info? They haven't built the game so they can't show in- game stuff. They don't have specific class information but they've told you exactly what to expect. They only have some concept art but Mark Jacobs has been very vocal about the art direction and style.
What specifically is keeping you from backing this project?
I need a working alpha. No matter how good a idea seems to look on paper or sound. Without trial and error, it's nothing but that, a idea. Even the most well thought out ideas can result in failure. See Wright brothers or Da Vinci. So asking everyone who is ever had the smallest interested in CU or DAoC or RvR to pledge before seeing a working prototype is rather unrealistic and takes a lot of chutzpah. The proof is in the pudding so to speak...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Sure, my post might come off as 'trolling', but that's not my intent. I'm just curious why people defend ideas so much when history has shown that action and intent are not always the same. So while MJ might say this, in the end (if he succeeds) might do that. So would you really defend someone you don't know at all, for just some ideas?
But, like I said in another thread; It's your money so feel free to spend it as you will. I'm just stating my opinions, just as you are entitled to yours. Just calm down, and you'll see life's grandeur. And if you are open to warnings, you might save some money should this turn out to be a fail/dissapointment/scam. If not, then that's your gain.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well the WAR card has been pulled quite often now. I do understand that ppl are upset with what WAR became. I sill hear my self saying "this game as sooo much potential...why did it turn out this way!"
I was really upset with what Mythic has made out of this game, that I was sure not to support a game of them ever again. My thougths have changed. To be honest I made a lot of mistakes in my life, but I allways got a second chance. This changed my thoughts towards MJ. If I allways get second chances why shoulden't he?
So I pledged the game, because I belief in his vision, because I belief that KS is a real good model to get innovative MMOs on the market. I can understand that a lot of ppl don't share these beliefs I do. That's ok, but pls keep the hate on a tolerant lvl.
Well the WAR card has been pulled quite often now. I do understand that ppl are upset with what WAR became. I sill hear my self saying "this game as sooo much potential...why did it turn out this way!"
I was really upset with what Mythic has made out of this game, that I was sure not to support a game of them ever again. My thougths have changed. To be honest I made a lot of mistakes in my life, but I allways got a second chance. This changed my thoughts towards MJ. If I allways get second chances why shoulden't he?
So I pledged the game, because I belief in his vision, because I belief that KS is a real good model to get innovative MMOs on the market. I can understand that a lot of ppl don't share these beliefs I do. That's ok, but pls keep the hate on a tolerant lvl.
Vision is fine but follow through is key. I can put all the platitudes and ideas I want about a game out there, I don't have the skills to do it. How many games has MJ really been involved with that have been publish and how many withered on the vine. This is something that needs to be taken into account, and many are not.
If you put money into it - good. Just don't come around saying an idea with nothing to back it up, is the next coming. I will wait and see.
I'm pretty certain that those of you hating on an idea of a game that has existed and played for over 12 years have never played daoc?? Daoc was and IMO is the greatest of the mmorpg to have come out, and I've bought pretty much all of them. It's a catch 22 for Jacobs as his company are making a new engine from the ground up to cater for this one game so how game they show gameplay when they are building the engine and need the pledges to keep going? War hammer was a letdown but why does Jacobs get ALL the blame? EA destroyed the game with crazy demands and pushing it out when it wasn't ready hence why Jacobs has quit his mega money job there and is trying to give the mmo community an unrestricted mmo. Have you watched any of the update videos or interviews about the game? Jacobs isn't giving out candy and promises of this and that because of what happened with EA. are you going to never buy another EA game on the basis war hammer sucked? I doubt it so why be so childish and petty at a game trying to push the boundaries and be different? Yes there's a little blind faith but if this game can capture what made daoc so great to play then ill take that chance
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Used to be, you would just buy a game and then play it... betas weren't open to the public like they are now, so you didn't actually get to see any work in progress, just the end result.
Then public betas started becoming all the rave... why pay game testers to test the games and find bugs when we can get players to do it for free? Now everyone gets to see the work in progress and judge things before they are finished.
Then someone comes up with the brilliant idea to get players to pre-pay for games just to beta test the games... what was once free is now being tied to a fee. Game isn't done, but you're buying it anyways just to be the first to play it... bugs and all. And eager to do it.
Now you have kickstarters (granted they probably existed long before this, but certainly not at the actual players level) in which you essentially throw money at developers that have pitched an idea with the hope that the game actually goes into development so that you can be part of the beta. Essentially you are taking on the role of a philanthropist now. There is no expressed or implied guarantee that the game will ever even go into development let alone get shipped. You do it in the hopes of getting into the beta if and when it happens before anyone else.
I think the next step in the evolution is that we will soon be pitching our ideas to developers and they will tell us how much money it's going to cost to make. So instead of just buying a game to play, you're actually paying for it to be made too. I don't see this trend benefiting anyone but the developers.
Once I'm able to get specific info about that, and have no doubts that the info is correct, I'll gladly pledge to the project. The devs simply need to figure out a way to prove me I'll have fun.
Used to be, you would just buy a game and then play it... betas weren't open to the public like they are now, so you didn't actually get to see any work in progress, just the end result.
Then public betas started becoming all the rave... why pay game testers to test the games and find bugs when we can get players to do it for free? Now everyone gets to see the work in progress and judge things before they are finished.
Then someone comes up with the brilliant idea to get players to pre-pay for games just to beta test the games... what was once free is now being tied to a fee. Game isn't done, but you're buying it anyways just to be the first to play it... bugs and all. And eager to do it.
Now you have kickstarters (granted they probably existed long before this, but certainly not at the actual players level) in which you essentially throw money at developers that have pitched an idea with the hope that the game actually goes into development so that you can be part of the beta. Essentially you are taking on the role of a philanthropist now. There is no expressed or implied guarantee that the game will ever even go into development let alone get shipped. You do it in the hopes of getting into the beta if and when it happens before anyone else.
I think the next step in the evolution is that we will soon be pitching our ideas to developers and they will tell us how much money it's going to cost to make. So instead of just buying a game to play, you're actually paying for it to be made too. I don't see this trend benefiting anyone but the developers.
Not really true depending on ehat you pledge what game with a sub fee have sold you a copy for 25$, your buying the game you want to get made at a discount.
Now if you want to get more you pay for that aswell further increasing the chance said game will found and if i dont no money will leave your account.
You never know if you like a game untill you played it for quite awhile i had a blast lvling in swtor at the end i quickly got bored, the idea of lvling the same side with 90% repetition dident hook me i did the other side mirror class but changed advanced from tank to dps.
here if all goes as it lookd i will have 2 competely dif paths aswell crafter or anything else.
even if i play a tankish char and a healer the content wont stay the same since i fight players not quest mobs that always are scritped the same.
If the game doesn't reach it's pledge target it doesn't go ahead and has cost pledgers nothing as they have no money taken until its hit its target. Once it does go ahead and get made then pretty much anybody who was happy to pledge would probably buy the game on release anyways? By pledging over the $25 mark I think it is then you get a copy of the game anyways so in reality if you were going to buy it on release then you've got your money back
Used to be, you would just buy a game and then play it... betas weren't open to the public like they are now, so you didn't actually get to see any work in progress, just the end result.
Then public betas started becoming all the rave... why pay game testers to test the games and find bugs when we can get players to do it for free? Now everyone gets to see the work in progress and judge things before they are finished.
Then someone comes up with the brilliant idea to get players to pre-pay for games just to beta test the games... what was once free is now being tied to a fee. Game isn't done, but you're buying it anyways just to be the first to play it... bugs and all. And eager to do it.
Now you have kickstarters (granted they probably existed long before this, but certainly not at the actual players level) in which you essentially throw money at developers that have pitched an idea with the hope that the game actually goes into development so that you can be part of the beta. Essentially you are taking on the role of a philanthropist now. There is no expressed or implied guarantee that the game will ever even go into development let alone get shipped. You do it in the hopes of getting into the beta if and when it happens before anyone else.
I think the next step in the evolution is that we will soon be pitching our ideas to developers and they will tell us how much money it's going to cost to make. So instead of just buying a game to play, you're actually paying for it to be made too. I don't see this trend benefiting anyone but the developers.
It's not about wanting to play in any betas, it's about wanting the game, that is envisioned, to be made.
Don't know why people bring up Greed Monger. Greed Monger was a project asking for 30k ran by someone with no experience in the game industry.
It was obviously nevergoing to happen.
- both have no gameplay
- one dev has no experience, the other one did... Warhammer...and DAOC
Had to correct that for you. Can't have one without the other.
Oh, just a guess here, you didn't play DAOC?
A lot of people are still wearing their rose-colored glasses when it comes to DAoC. Nostalgia can be a powerful thing.
Nostaligia is more of a myth in my opinion, there's very clear differences between DAOC and more modern titles that I sure do wish we still had, even in DAOC itself.
Yeah, I recall pretty much what I didn't like about DAOC, and expected future titles to improve on that but instead they took a considerably different path with the release of WOW.
Like I've said previously, this title really isn't for me, the parts of DAOC that I most enjoyed will largely be missing from this new game.
But what the heck, I'll probably give it a try, who knows, might surprise me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Question for you all... MJ has said a number of times he is aware of his mistakes in the past in daoc and WAR right?
However has he ever stated what these mistakes are specifically? Maybe I've missed it but I would like to know exactly he thinks was the mistakes People keep commenting that he's going to fix his mistakes, I just hope everyone agrees with him on these mistakes
I usually try out all MMO's so of course i pledged too Get the game cheap so I can try it out, not like $25 for a game is gonna kill my wallet like the epic fails of GW2, SWTOR, RIFT or Any other games.
At $25 i easily risk a game to epic fail as long as it sounds fun.
not like gameplayvideos or info have Kept me from buying epic fails like SWTOR and GW2 either.........
If you look at other Kickstarters, you'd also see they didn't have an alpha or show much in terms of gameplay. Project Eternity was one of them. That still reached it's goal and beyond. This is just giving you the concept of an RvR game, and that's something that's really haven't been given.
I pledged because i want this game to be made. Simple as that :-). I know it is like playing lotto but with better odds.I guess kickstarter is not for people who are afraid to take a chance. It is a nice way to fund stuff andere perhaps more important to see if there is a market. Because it does not make sense to produce a game that nobody wants to play.What i don't understand is the hate here in this forum. And i don't need someone to warn me about the risk, i am old enough to know that this is a bet :-)
So I've seen a lot of posts where people say they need to know more info before they pledge. What info?
how about gameplay. you know, the stuff other ks projects usually show before telling us stories how totally awesome a game will be?
lots of people hyping and pledging for a game in their fantasy. Well great way to sell something, reminds of "bottled air".
or bottled water?
I like RvR games, and I generally like Jacobs games. I'll give it a shot.
I'm not investing my life savings, i'm just purchasing a video game thats starting at the ground floor. Wouldn't be the first one i tossed aside if things don't work out or turned out terrible. Damn, I have a small stack of terrible MMOs that i've heard /saw what the gameplay was going to be like prior to purchase. That really didn't help much. They always make it sound like the next best thing. Rarely turns out that way though, eh? This ones just like a really early pre-purchase, and i get some minor swag with it. Cool.
I like his ideas, some of course don't. Niche game is niche.
Am I hyping the crap out of it? Nope. Will i lose any sleep if it doesn't fund? Nope.
Comments
Something more than platitudes and wishful thinking on MJ's part. Also, MJ ACTUALLY PUTTING HIS OWN MONEY IN BEFORE KICKSTARTER. This would give many the idea he thinks this game will be produced. If you want people to back you, you have to actually show that you back your own ideas.
Alpha gameplay video. Also would like PvE but that is not in this game (based on what MJ has said) - so nothing would make me back the game
...Um everything. What did they give us, some ideas, a few "core principles" and some RULES......oooOoOoO I can type also. They showed a video with 500 avatars standing around, no fx's, no magic, no background graphs.....what will happen to framerate when they add that? Where is a video of thier basic engine showing some town/landscape/ or some fighting???
..... TO ME, MY opinion there is not enough info for ME to back it.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
There is no " specific " info missing really. Just not alot of concrete information. Concept art and ideas are really all we have. That and an in house " tech" demo that does not show much.
I am waiting until the end of the KS to see how things are going, if they need an extra push at the end I will donate $50 bucks to help out.
I think alot of people just are not going to donate to an idea with concept art basically. I am not sure why multiple posts asking why people wont donate is going to help. If nothing else some of the responses from the backers are having a negative effect. As well as people are probably getting tired of constant CU post spam and are just waiting for it to fail.
I personally do not care either way as I just read and comment on the posts I am interested in. But even as fans and backers you should see where some of this is actually hurting your cause.
I need a working alpha. No matter how good a idea seems to look on paper or sound. Without trial and error, it's nothing but that, a idea. Even the most well thought out ideas can result in failure. See Wright brothers or Da Vinci. So asking everyone who is ever had the smallest interested in CU or DAoC or RvR to pledge before seeing a working prototype is rather unrealistic and takes a lot of chutzpah. The proof is in the pudding so to speak...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Sure, my post might come off as 'trolling', but that's not my intent. I'm just curious why people defend ideas so much when history has shown that action and intent are not always the same. So while MJ might say this, in the end (if he succeeds) might do that. So would you really defend someone you don't know at all, for just some ideas?
But, like I said in another thread; It's your money so feel free to spend it as you will. I'm just stating my opinions, just as you are entitled to yours. Just calm down, and you'll see life's grandeur. And if you are open to warnings, you might save some money should this turn out to be a fail/dissapointment/scam. If not, then that's your gain.
Had to correct that for you. Can't have one without the other.
Oh, just a guess here, you didn't play DAOC?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A lot of people are still wearing their rose-colored glasses when it comes to DAoC. Nostalgia can be a powerful thing.
Well the WAR card has been pulled quite often now. I do understand that ppl are upset with what WAR became. I sill hear my self saying "this game as sooo much potential...why did it turn out this way!"
I was really upset with what Mythic has made out of this game, that I was sure not to support a game of them ever again. My thougths have changed. To be honest I made a lot of mistakes in my life, but I allways got a second chance. This changed my thoughts towards MJ. If I allways get second chances why shoulden't he?
So I pledged the game, because I belief in his vision, because I belief that KS is a real good model to get innovative MMOs on the market. I can understand that a lot of ppl don't share these beliefs I do. That's ok, but pls keep the hate on a tolerant lvl.
Vision is fine but follow through is key. I can put all the platitudes and ideas I want about a game out there, I don't have the skills to do it. How many games has MJ really been involved with that have been publish and how many withered on the vine. This is something that needs to be taken into account, and many are not.
If you put money into it - good. Just don't come around saying an idea with nothing to back it up, is the next coming. I will wait and see.
In my case i don't trust MJ after WAR.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Used to be, you would just buy a game and then play it... betas weren't open to the public like they are now, so you didn't actually get to see any work in progress, just the end result.
Then public betas started becoming all the rave... why pay game testers to test the games and find bugs when we can get players to do it for free? Now everyone gets to see the work in progress and judge things before they are finished.
Then someone comes up with the brilliant idea to get players to pre-pay for games just to beta test the games... what was once free is now being tied to a fee. Game isn't done, but you're buying it anyways just to be the first to play it... bugs and all. And eager to do it.
Now you have kickstarters (granted they probably existed long before this, but certainly not at the actual players level) in which you essentially throw money at developers that have pitched an idea with the hope that the game actually goes into development so that you can be part of the beta. Essentially you are taking on the role of a philanthropist now. There is no expressed or implied guarantee that the game will ever even go into development let alone get shipped. You do it in the hopes of getting into the beta if and when it happens before anyone else.
I think the next step in the evolution is that we will soon be pitching our ideas to developers and they will tell us how much money it's going to cost to make. So instead of just buying a game to play, you're actually paying for it to be made too. I don't see this trend benefiting anyone but the developers.
Will I have fun playing it?
Once I'm able to get specific info about that, and have no doubts that the info is correct, I'll gladly pledge to the project. The devs simply need to figure out a way to prove me I'll have fun.
I played DAoC and Warhammer.
Warhammer was bad, very bad, imo. A huge disappointment.
I understand that CU could be a flop but it also has I think a good chance to be something great and I pledged on that possibility.
If you're even a tad bit interested I would suggest pledging one of the lower tiers at least.
same regarding the haters when they started to show up.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Not really true depending on ehat you pledge what game with a sub fee have sold you a copy for 25$, your buying the game you want to get made at a discount.
Now if you want to get more you pay for that aswell further increasing the chance said game will found and if i dont no money will leave your account.
You never know if you like a game untill you played it for quite awhile i had a blast lvling in swtor at the end i quickly got bored, the idea of lvling the same side with 90% repetition dident hook me i did the other side mirror class but changed advanced from tank to dps.
here if all goes as it lookd i will have 2 competely dif paths aswell crafter or anything else.
even if i play a tankish char and a healer the content wont stay the same since i fight players not quest mobs that always are scritped the same.
It's not about wanting to play in any betas, it's about wanting the game, that is envisioned, to be made.
Nostaligia is more of a myth in my opinion, there's very clear differences between DAOC and more modern titles that I sure do wish we still had, even in DAOC itself.
Yeah, I recall pretty much what I didn't like about DAOC, and expected future titles to improve on that but instead they took a considerably different path with the release of WOW.
Like I've said previously, this title really isn't for me, the parts of DAOC that I most enjoyed will largely be missing from this new game.
But what the heck, I'll probably give it a try, who knows, might surprise me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However has he ever stated what these mistakes are specifically? Maybe I've missed it but I would like to know exactly he thinks was the mistakes
People keep commenting that he's going to fix his mistakes, I just hope everyone agrees with him on these mistakes
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
I usually try out all MMO's so of course i pledged too Get the game cheap so I can try it out, not like $25 for a game is gonna kill my wallet like the epic fails of GW2, SWTOR, RIFT or Any other games.
At $25 i easily risk a game to epic fail as long as it sounds fun.
not like gameplayvideos or info have Kept me from buying epic fails like SWTOR and GW2 either.........
I pledged because i want this game to be made. Simple as that :-). I know it is like playing lotto but with better odds.I guess kickstarter is not for people who are afraid to take a chance. It is a nice way to fund stuff andere perhaps more important to see if there is a market. Because it does not make sense to produce a game that nobody wants to play.What i don't understand is the hate here in this forum. And i don't need someone to warn me about the risk, i am old enough to know that this is a bet :-)
or bottled water?
I like RvR games, and I generally like Jacobs games. I'll give it a shot.
I'm not investing my life savings, i'm just purchasing a video game thats starting at the ground floor. Wouldn't be the first one i tossed aside if things don't work out or turned out terrible. Damn, I have a small stack of terrible MMOs that i've heard /saw what the gameplay was going to be like prior to purchase. That really didn't help much. They always make it sound like the next best thing. Rarely turns out that way though, eh? This ones just like a really early pre-purchase, and i get some minor swag with it. Cool.
I like his ideas, some of course don't. Niche game is niche.
Am I hyping the crap out of it? Nope. Will i lose any sleep if it doesn't fund? Nope.
Surprise. Its still just a video game.