Why is this an update? I don't understand the purpose other than stalling Another day before a useful update Not a bad thing I guess but pointless none the less
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek Why is this an update? I don't understand the purpose other than stalling Another day before a useful update Not a bad thing I guess but pointless none the less
It's interesting info and nice to hear, and the real udates aren't ready yet. BEtter than posting nothing.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek Why is this an update? I don't understand the purpose other than stalling Another day before a useful update Not a bad thing I guess but pointless none the less
Certainly not pointless, but definitely not the type of update you should have at around the mid-point of your Kickstarter campaign.
Compared to some games I've seen on Kickstarter, CU is certainly less developed. I think this is hurting it's progress in my opinion.
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek Why is this an update? I don't understand the purpose other than stalling Another day before a useful update Not a bad thing I guess but pointless none the less
Certainly not pointless, but definitely not the type of update you should have at around the mid-point of your Kickstarter campaign.
Compared to some games I've seen on Kickstarter, CU is certainly less developed. I think this is hurting it's progress in my opinion.
I can't disagree because it could only help. But the whole point of Kickstarter is to START something. Not "Hey we are half way done with this and need some money to get us to the end".
Torment, the most successful game so far had a 2.5d background with a character walking back and forth, 12 talking head videos, some screenshots and concept art.
I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need. Grim Dawn was a good example of this. Pissed me off, too, they've been working on the game for years.
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare did this as well. One month after their KS, they released. I honestly think that violates the spirit of KS.
KS should be more for products like CU...products that need a kickstart, not products that are ready to release.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
Originally posted by GreenHell The only problem I have with this whole thing is that if he sells CSE than nothing he posted there will matter. Small developers get bought up all of the time. If you don't believe that companies like EA and SOE are watching to see what happens with KS games and these small developers your crazy.
Do you really think he'd sell anything to EA after his experiences with them? The guy's entire reputation and career are going to be riding on this game as soon as the kickstarter finishes.
Everyone and I mean every single person on this Earth has a price.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need. Grim Dawn was a good example of this. Pissed me off, too, they've been working on the game for years.
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare did this as well. One month after their KS, they released. I honestly think that violates the spirit of KS.
KS should be more for products like CU...products that need a kickstart, not products that are ready to release.
I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need. Grim Dawn was a good example of this. Pissed me off, too, they've been working on the game for years.
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare did this as well. One month after their KS, they released. I honestly think that violates the spirit of KS.
KS should be more for products like CU...products that need a kickstart, not products that are ready to release.
Agree 100%
Let me play the devils advocate for a second. Could it not be argued that those same developers that used Kickstarter at the end of development were using it to recoup their expenses? They are after all small studios and Im sure a lot of the development costs came out of their own pockets. Are they not as entitled as someone like MJ who has the money to kickstart this project on his own? Should KS really be used to gauge interest in a product or should it be used to help people achieve their dreams and not lose their house for chasing that dream?
This is such a slippery slope and much of what KS should or does represent seems to be based on personal opinion. Is one person really more worthy than another? Should a person that has millions of dollars take precedent over a guy who does not have that kind of money but has the passion and determination to make his dream a reality?
I had no interest in KS before CU. In fact I knew very little about it. Latley though it seems I visit that site daily. When I see a post like this I question how anyone would come to those conclusions. Just because a project is almost finished does not mean that there are no costs associated with it.
It seems very narrow minded when I read a comment like "I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need." I'm not trying to be insulting so if you take it that way I will appologize in advance but there is no such thing as money they don't need. These are small indy studios and every cent helps. How can you believe this but think it is perfectly ok to fund a game that is being made by a guy with millions of dollars?
I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need. Grim Dawn was a good example of this. Pissed me off, too, they've been working on the game for years.
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare did this as well. One month after their KS, they released. I honestly think that violates the spirit of KS.
KS should be more for products like CU...products that need a kickstart, not products that are ready to release.
Agree 100%
Let me play the devils advocate for a second. Could it not be argued that those same developers that used Kickstarter at the end of development were using it to recoup their expenses? They are after all small studios and Im sure a lot of the development costs came out of their own pockets. Are they not as entitled as someone like MJ who has the money to kickstart this project on his own? Should KS really be used to gauge interest in a product or should it be used to help people achieve their dreams and not lose their house for chasing that dream?
This is such a slippery slope and much of what KS should or does represent seems to be based on personal opinion. Is one person really more worthy than another? Should a person that has millions of dollars take precedent over a guy who does not have that kind of money but has the passion and determination to make his dream a reality?
I had no interest in KS before CU. In fact I knew very little about it. Latley though it seems I visit that site daily. When I see a post like this I question how anyone would come to those conclusions. Just because a project is almost finished does not mean that there are no costs associated with it.
It seems very narrow minded when I read a comment like "I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need." I'm not trying to be insulting so if you take it that way I will appologize in advance but there is no such thing as money they don't need. These are small indy studios and every cent helps. How can you believe this but think it is perfectly ok to fund a game that is being made by a guy with millions of dollars?
I personally think this is a whole thread by itself because it is a very interesting topic that I have been flip flopping on lately. I was totaly on board with Mkilbride's attitude on the subject - even wrote a rant on reddit about it. I think I even called Richard Garriot an asshat at one point.
But now I'm not so sure and leaning more towards grogstorm's point of view. I'm too tired to write much right now but I'm going to give this some more thought and write something up on it.
I called Lord British an asshat and then realized that my anger really was directed toward people who didn't understand the difference between what Shroud of the Avatar was offering and Camelot Unchained. Intuitively I got it - obviously so did Mkilbride and you grogstorm. The difference between the two projects is huge and asking CU for in-game footage is ridiculous but that is not Lord British's fault. So once I realized my anger was misplaced I started to question why I devalued projects like Shroud of the Avatar simply because of their progress.
Couldn't come up with a good answer so... I don't know. Still an early 'thing' that will hopefully develop into a thought that will somehow make it's way to this digital wonderland lol.
Originally posted by GreenHell The only problem I have with this whole thing is that if he sells CSE than nothing he posted there will matter. Small developers get bought up all of the time. If you don't believe that companies like EA and SOE are watching to see what happens with KS games and these small developers your crazy.
Do you really think he'd sell anything to EA after his experiences with them? The guy's entire reputation and career are going to be riding on this game as soon as the kickstarter finishes.
Everyone and I mean every single person on this Earth has a price.
Not true. You can give me as much money as you want, i will never kill somebody else.
And there are plenty of people believing in their religion enough to stay true to their principles, no matter the amount of money you give and what principle you ask to break.
Beside, if you take a look at the comment section of that update on KS you can see MJ answered in an E-mail than he wouldn't sell the game to EA (comment post 3 hours ago by the time i write this post).
Originally posted by GreenHell The only problem I have with this whole thing is that if he sells CSE than nothing he posted there will matter. Small developers get bought up all of the time. If you don't believe that companies like EA and SOE are watching to see what happens with KS games and these small developers your crazy.
That is very true. However, CCP has managed to remain independent for a very long time. If CU is half as succesful as EVE, CSE can remain independent of publishers (hopefully).
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the offer just hasnt been sweet enough for CCP to take it. These are just human beings. They like money as much as the rest of us do. If CSE was failing and a decent offer was made do you really believe MJ would care where the money is coming from?
Yes, because he's sold out once before and didn't like it. This game ends up failing, he'll shut er down.
From what I heard (from a former employee at Mythic), Mark didn't want to sell to EA, but he was outvoted by other stakeholders.
Originally posted by GreenHell The only problem I have with this whole thing is that if he sells CSE than nothing he posted there will matter. Small developers get bought up all of the time. If you don't believe that companies like EA and SOE are watching to see what happens with KS games and these small developers your crazy.
That is very true. However, CCP has managed to remain independent for a very long time. If CU is half as succesful as EVE, CSE can remain independent of publishers (hopefully).
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the offer just hasnt been sweet enough for CCP to take it. These are just human beings. They like money as much as the rest of us do. If CSE was failing and a decent offer was made do you really believe MJ would care where the money is coming from?
Yes, because he's sold out once before and didn't like it. This game ends up failing, he'll shut er down.
From what I heard (from a former employee at Mythic), Mark didn't want to sell to EA, but he was outvoted by other stakeholders.
And that's why he is using KS now, to be the one to decide. He won't be forced to sell because of investors.
At the risk of being negative, this update is all just words. Words that are good to hear of course. But they don't have the force of law behind them and we won't know whether CSE will abide by them until after the fact. This definitely should have been a FP before Kickstarter not a Kickstarter update. Hopefully we'll get back to more updates about the actual game so people have a reason to donate more than $10K a day again.
Everyone and I mean every single person on this Earth has a price.
Not true. You can give me as much money as you want, i will never kill somebody else.
And there are plenty of people believing in their religion enough to stay true to their principles, no matter the amount of money you give and what principle you ask to break.
Beside, if you take a look at the comment section of that update on KS you can see MJ answered in an E-mail than he wouldn't sell the game to EA (comment post 3 hours ago by the time i write this post).
Agreed. Sentiments like that just serve to make those suffering moral bankruptcy feel better about themselves.
Originally posted by meddyck At the risk of being negative, this update is all just words. Words that are good to hear of course. But they don't have the force of law behind them and we won't know whether CSE will abide by them until after the fact. This definitely should have been a FP before Kickstarter not a Kickstarter update. Hopefully we'll get back to more updates about the actual game so people have a reason to donate more than $10K a day again.
Words are wind.
;
Interesting to hear about them releasing binaries if they ever shut it down. Source would be better but I understand holding on to that if the studio is still alive.
This should have been stapled on the front page of the kickstarter on April 2nd or w/e it began.
but dude, this is a huge annoucement, cause apparently, someone ripped gamers off before and now wants to be extremly clear, they won;t do it,,, again ?
Mind blows with every thing MJ writes.
Your room must be pretty messy with all those head-bits splattered around. He's a fairly prolific writer.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi Every comppany says the same thing. What I find even more ironic, tthat with WAR none of those things came into play.
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
standard legal talk
This should have been stapled on the front page of the kickstarter on April 2nd or w/e it began.
but dude, this is a huge annoucement, cause apparently, someone ripped gamers off before and now wants to be extremly clear, they won;t do it,,, again ?
Mind blown
I'll ignore the whole "ripped off" thing but really Dren, can you point to one MMO developer who has promised to release both binaries and, if we can, source at the onset of the project if/when the day comes that we have to shut it down? Besides, even if you can point to one, I can point to 99.9% of them that haven't promised to do that.
In terms of WAR, well, I'm not part of EA now so I can say what I want, do what I want with the code, etc. I know you understand the difference between being an employee of a company and owning it yourself as I do CSE. Even at Mythic I had investors.
And in terms of it being "a huge announcement", that's why I didn't seek any coverage for it, no press, etc., it was just a project update. Besides, I even said in the text along with these promises that it wasn't a big update.
It's pretty neat to release the binaries, but question is it only Available to the backers or everyone that plays? However with games like these the problem is they are only working properly with a certain level of people playing, without population they are useless, else I would be playing daoc yards right now. So neat can look at the code, but running your own instance of the game at home kinda pointless though not sure that would be the goal of people who want the binaries
Comments
Not a bad thing I guess but pointless none the less
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
It's interesting info and nice to hear, and the real udates aren't ready yet. BEtter than posting nothing.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
Certainly not pointless, but definitely not the type of update you should have at around the mid-point of your Kickstarter campaign.
Compared to some games I've seen on Kickstarter, CU is certainly less developed. I think this is hurting it's progress in my opinion.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
Well, like he said, it's the calm before the storm.
Still, I feel like every update should be a 'storm' at this point. Game needs more backers.
I can't disagree because it could only help. But the whole point of Kickstarter is to START something. Not "Hey we are half way done with this and need some money to get us to the end".
Torment, the most successful game so far had a 2.5d background with a character walking back and forth, 12 talking head videos, some screenshots and concept art.
Yes.
I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need. Grim Dawn was a good example of this. Pissed me off, too, they've been working on the game for years.
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare did this as well. One month after their KS, they released. I honestly think that violates the spirit of KS.
KS should be more for products like CU...products that need a kickstart, not products that are ready to release.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
Everyone and I mean every single person on this Earth has a price.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
Agree 100%
Nanulak
Let me play the devils advocate for a second. Could it not be argued that those same developers that used Kickstarter at the end of development were using it to recoup their expenses? They are after all small studios and Im sure a lot of the development costs came out of their own pockets. Are they not as entitled as someone like MJ who has the money to kickstart this project on his own? Should KS really be used to gauge interest in a product or should it be used to help people achieve their dreams and not lose their house for chasing that dream?
This is such a slippery slope and much of what KS should or does represent seems to be based on personal opinion. Is one person really more worthy than another? Should a person that has millions of dollars take precedent over a guy who does not have that kind of money but has the passion and determination to make his dream a reality?
I had no interest in KS before CU. In fact I knew very little about it. Latley though it seems I visit that site daily. When I see a post like this I question how anyone would come to those conclusions. Just because a project is almost finished does not mean that there are no costs associated with it.
It seems very narrow minded when I read a comment like "I've seen so many successful KS lately...and most of them are games @ 70% completion, just using KS to get extra money they don't need." I'm not trying to be insulting so if you take it that way I will appologize in advance but there is no such thing as money they don't need. These are small indy studios and every cent helps. How can you believe this but think it is perfectly ok to fund a game that is being made by a guy with millions of dollars?
I personally think this is a whole thread by itself because it is a very interesting topic that I have been flip flopping on lately. I was totaly on board with Mkilbride's attitude on the subject - even wrote a rant on reddit about it. I think I even called Richard Garriot an asshat at one point.
But now I'm not so sure and leaning more towards grogstorm's point of view. I'm too tired to write much right now but I'm going to give this some more thought and write something up on it.
Cheers for the good read!
Crap ok one little thing before I go to bed :-)
I called Lord British an asshat and then realized that my anger really was directed toward people who didn't understand the difference between what Shroud of the Avatar was offering and Camelot Unchained. Intuitively I got it - obviously so did Mkilbride and you grogstorm. The difference between the two projects is huge and asking CU for in-game footage is ridiculous but that is not Lord British's fault. So once I realized my anger was misplaced I started to question why I devalued projects like Shroud of the Avatar simply because of their progress.
Couldn't come up with a good answer so... I don't know. Still an early 'thing' that will hopefully develop into a thought that will somehow make it's way to this digital wonderland lol.
i want to see a:
12) We will vigorously defend players against cheaters/hackers/3rd party program users.
i really do.
I hated daoc Radar users and speedhackers far more than gold sellers.
Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur
Not true. You can give me as much money as you want, i will never kill somebody else.
And there are plenty of people believing in their religion enough to stay true to their principles, no matter the amount of money you give and what principle you ask to break.
Beside, if you take a look at the comment section of that update on KS you can see MJ answered in an E-mail than he wouldn't sell the game to EA (comment post 3 hours ago by the time i write this post).
From what I heard (from a former employee at Mythic), Mark didn't want to sell to EA, but he was outvoted by other stakeholders.
And that's why he is using KS now, to be the one to decide. He won't be forced to sell because of investors.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Agreed. Sentiments like that just serve to make those suffering moral bankruptcy feel better about themselves.
Hi
Words are wind.
;
Interesting to hear about them releasing binaries if they ever shut it down. Source would be better but I understand holding on to that if the studio is still alive.
standard legal talk
This should have been stapled on the front page of the kickstarter on April 2nd or w/e it began.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
I'll ignore the whole "ripped off" thing but really Dren, can you point to one MMO developer who has promised to release both binaries and, if we can, source at the onset of the project if/when the day comes that we have to shut it down? Besides, even if you can point to one, I can point to 99.9% of them that haven't promised to do that.
In terms of WAR, well, I'm not part of EA now so I can say what I want, do what I want with the code, etc. I know you understand the difference between being an employee of a company and owning it yourself as I do CSE. Even at Mythic I had investors.
And in terms of it being "a huge announcement", that's why I didn't seek any coverage for it, no press, etc., it was just a project update. Besides, I even said in the text along with these promises that it wasn't a big update.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
However with games like these the problem is they are only working properly with a certain level of people playing, without population they are useless, else I would be playing daoc yards right now.
So neat can look at the code, but running your own instance of the game at home kinda pointless though not sure that would be the goal of people who want the binaries
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked