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Why the Defiance hate?
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Are you just daft and blind or what?
People have been posting thread after thread for weeks now, with proof to various youtube videos and sites showing how easy it is to hack this game and people hacking live on video streams.
If this was all fake and the work of some disgruntled player.... those videostreams wouldn't have been taken offline and stream accounts closed!
All these threads have been deleted at an alarming rate, as TRION wants to obviously wipe it under the rug and keep it quiet.
There are already entire cheat engines available dedicated for DEFIANCE since day one, as they had plenty of time to create it during the beta weekends.
But sure... go ahead and stick your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine and hacking doesn't exist.
Just like All Points Bulletin did not had any hackers either. It was all just imagination. lol.
Just entered San Fran. Taking my time. Really enjoying the story. No crashes at all. Very few bugs, and the ones I have found are misson related, which have been fixed very quickly. I haven't even tried PvP. I haven't done the Co-op missions either. Haven't done the shadow wars. Havent started any pursuits. I paid $60 for a game that I'm still playing and having fun with since launch. I won't have to pay a subscription fee. All updates are free, in exception for some DLC. Okay, that's fine, most expansions cost money anyways. I'm enjoying the TV show as well. Oh, the game's storyline evolves with the show starting next season? Haven't seen that before. I can leave for six months and come back without losing much of anything because there is no 'I WIN' gear? Nice.
Totally worth it. I also paid full price for BF3 and beat the campaign in hours. All of the Gears games were beat in hours. To be honest, I kind of feel ripped off when it comes to those. Considering what Defiance has given me, and promises in the future.
And just to address the cheating comments. I don't cheat, nor have I seen a cheater in the game. Perhaps they are there, I won't argue that. Though, I doubt they will be there for long. Those people will get reported very quickly and banned.
Good Hunting.
Defiance is a great game
Not really sure how anyone can think othervise , sure It's not the best TPS and not the best feature vise MMO..But it's fun as hell.
Most professional reviews will tell you that if you bother to actuallly read them since they all basically has given Defiance a 5-7 in scores based on diffrent things, but It's fun, the bugs and the problems some are having will go away..eventually.
You can hardly blame the game company for people hacking. Perhaps the config files have to be client based due to the consoles, I don't know. General rule in an MMO if you find somebody cheating, however that might be, you report them. As for anti-cheat measures, you can't spend your time developing with the idea everybody is going to cheat in the back of your mind, because that is like saying you don't trust your userbase. You have to assume cheats will be isolated instances and that you plug the holes with patches as and when.
Ah come on! You really cannot be that naive now do you?
As that is EXACTLY what developers need to have in mind from day one! That people will try to hack your game!
According to your philosophy... why would we even need a password on our account? Why not just login without a password?
Why have any security messures at all right? If developers are not responsible and should ignore hackers.
Just remove firewalls too.... it will sertainly improve latency and performance.
/facepalm
Well, I sort of agree with you here..But only to some degree, since whatever they do there will always be ways to cheat anyway
The hackers will NOT go away easily..and NOT easily stopped ..
Someome will ALWAYS try to cheat, either with hacks or exploits or even built in cheat codes (not in MMO's hopefully) they will also use guides, hints and other spoiler sites to get an ADVANTAGE.
The problem here is naturally the "gamers" that feels the need to prove themselvs wthout actually proving anything,,
The need to win is strong, without it we would not even TRY to cheat during the olympics and risk jail and complete bans from the sport you love..
Ofcourse people will always try to find ways to hack.
But in case of DEFIANCE, TRION has made it EXTREMELY easy for them! It's just basically an open invite for hacking!
They don't even need to hack the client files, because everything is just loaded in plain memory. So they can just adjust the values realtime in memory! Even, if there were client file integrity checks in place, they can bypass those completely.
Critical stuff like damage, speed, shield, powers, etc should be handled server side with checks in place. At least hackers won't be able to get around that anymore. Which is the critical part of the game.
Hacks like aimbots, wall/terrain visibility hacks are harder to detect, but can still be countered by client integrity checks.
It just shows TRION's engine they used for DEFIANCE is just utter crap and them being forced to put everything client side to make the game even work. And yet they still have trouble keeping the servers performing and stable. /shrug
I have said it before. With the budget they had, they should just have licensed a decent engine, like Unreal Engine or Crytek.
Fully optimised for Online FPS games, with build-in support for ALL platforms! Basic anti-cheat messures in place, so less worry about hacks, etc.
Sure it would have cut in their initial profits, but at least they would have a decent, stable and good performing game with less bugs and issues, working chat system.
Longterm it would have paid off for them. Now it's slowly turning into a complete dissaster for them (at least for PC platform) and I just can't see how they can get out of it.
The game is now live! First impressions are key! It will be too expensive and too much work to overhaul the entire game and move all this stuff from client to server.
They would have to redesign the entire server infrastructure to cope with the extra processing load.
It's just a shame! Moreso a HUGE dissapointment, as I had expected better from TRION.
I mean.... after the whole hacking debacle with All Points Bulletin (twice even with the relaunch!). You would have thought it had raised RED flags to other developers to NOT make these same mistakes again!
/shrug
You really do not get it do you?
Everything is just loaded into plain memory on the client! Cheat engines can just read all the values straight from memory and alter them in realtime! It's not even hashed or encrypted!
They don't even have to touch any of the gamefiles AT ALL! And so bypass file integrity checks completely, if they have even bothered with those either.
TRION has given hacking ZERO thought at all! There are no client checks. There are no server checks. Nothing!
No one has been banned. This has been going on since day 1 for over 3 weeks! People that were hacking on day 1 are still hacking today!
In fact, they most likely cannot even proof hacking, when everything is handled clientside and thus no way to ban them even. Because they currently can't even display the correct results of Arkfall events and PVP matches. Let alone the ability to find proof of hacking. /Shrug
There has been no word from TRION! No official response on the situation! All they have done is delete all threads like mad to wipe it under the rug.
They haven't even given any explanation nor appology for last saturday 9 hour downtime that caused another rollback of several hours, with people losing progression, items... even stuff bought with "real" money in the cash shop!
I have currently no idea what is going on with TRION.... but communication has pretty much stopped since over a week ago.
No more blog posts.... nothing. Just the ocasional post by Sledge or Erik regarding maintenance. That's it.
You certainly give the impression to know alot in this is issue..If all you say in this matter really is true..Can you give some solid links to these statements..?
I haven't yet stubled into any odd stuff, sure I see scores in minigames that can't be nothing but some cheats...Or am I really that bad, maybe lol
But ...Im rather sure that if cheating is so rambart as you say , I woud not be be among the highest scoring players in most ARKFALLS I do..
I haven't noticed anything foul going on..But sure I do not really know where to look either.. PvP is probably the highest risk for cheaters, I did a few matches earned a few kills...and GOT killed lots of times, but thats also normal because I suck at PvP shooters..
Currently there is a notorious dutch guild very active in Shadow Wars on the EU PC server. They have been hacking for a long time now, been reported and no action has been taken so far.
The Arkfall results are completely messed up and inaccurate. TRION has already admitted that. People have been complaing high and low for weeks now, in how they participated in an entire Arkfall event and got no damage contribution in the results.
When it comes to hacking in PVE, people are one shotting bosses, mini bosses and mobs in both Arkfalls as in Open world left and right. Driving cars with impossible speeds, etc.
You can also check the Top charts in various pursuits and see impossible scores in the top 3.
It might not be rampant enough yet that "everyone" notices it all the time. But it will become rampant if nothing is been done. And so far TRION seems to ignore the problem with a passion, seeing how fast they have been deleting threads.
In APB (and later APB:Reloaded) hacking wasn't immediately rampant, but when it went unchecked (devs were unable to do anything), word spread and the hacking became a serious problem and pretty much killed the game.
Same will happen with Defiance. At least the PC version. :-/
By now TRION should have come out with an official response, acknowledging the problem and saying they are working on a solution and will start perma banning people! That would give out a strong message and at least put some fear into most people even attempting to try out one of those cheat engines.
Now they keep silent, delete all the threads about it and give the impression they don't care.
NOT GOOD! /Shrug
I don't think you get it. Trion isn't in the wrong here, the people that are cheating are in the wrong. The majority of gamers abide by the rules. You are talking about a minority and if they want to cheat that is up to them. But it's not reward without risk. Just because nothing has happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.
The 0 damage in arkfalls and co-ops is due to a bug with cluster granades, unequip those and you will get your damage back...My wife had this problem..:)
What is the name of this notorious dutch guild ?
Haven't seen anyone that oneshots mini bosses, but you have ?
The Impossible scores in minigames..yes I have seen them...:) Doesnt needlessly have to be "hacks" it can be glitches exploits and other bugs aswell, I and my wife have had several occasions of minigames where the gun you were suppose to use emptied =game over, but the game continued , the chicken shooting for an example..My wife shot this one with a machine gun
.
It sounds awfully easy for you to say that TRION should make statements of "perma" bans , and start banning people left and right..Should my wife be banned because she shot chickens with her own weapon ?
But ..I hate cheating, and If there is cheaters I sure as hell don't want them around..But all this can't be as easy as you say, othervise they would have done something already..
And..the engine, the choice of engine ..during development..Im sure this is a super hard choice for the dev's when making their game.. Right now they have a fluid engine that works rather well with what it's suppose to be doing, I think If they have chosen a more secure engine the performance would not be the same, Only guessing here ofcourse
TRION is definetely in the wrong here! We do not live in a perfect world you think we are living in!
Hacking is and always has been an issue. Especially nowadays! So as developer you have to take that into account!
What TRION did with DEFIANCE was just blatantly ignorant. They didn't even put up a challenge for the hackers.
The least they could have done is keep critical data like damage, shield, powers, speed on the server with basic integrity checks.
And IF they somehow HAVE to have it clientside, then at least perform control checks on the server and set maximum values.
You know no weapon should be able to do 1 million damage per shot.
You know a shield should not be able to have 1 million hit points and/or instant recharge or whatever.
You know each weapon has a maximum range and doesn't do max damage on sniper distances.
You know a character or vehicle can drive a maximum set speed and not 10 times faster.
This is just basic stuff! It's totally retarded hackers are able to pull off the above with hardly any effort.
The above should NOT be possible AT ALL in an Online Multiplayer game!
Stuff like aimbots are a different matter and harder to deal with, as hit detection is always clientside. So I could give them some slack there. Completely different matter and much less of an issue, then all the stuff above.
Every MMO has hackers and cheaters but Trion handed it to these kind of people on silver platter by keeping weapon damage on client side. Who the hell does that in a shooter? such a rookie move by Trion.
Daranar, get used to those "server updates" because Trion has crappy servers and will repeatedly go down several times every week. Not only do they have terrible servers, there are several bugs in the game that are breaking the game progression, yet the GMs have literally said that there is no timeframe, if ever, that they will be fixed.
The game also is plagued with a lot of hackers and people using exploits to an insane degree. Not every MMO is plagued with hackers and I suggest to those who claim otherwise to try more than a couple MMOs before claiming that.
The problem in Defiance is that the code is so broken that like another poster mentioned, Trion handed the game to them on a silver platter. Even though Trion was warned, they still opted to use cheap software such as Nguard and Punk Buster to try to protect the game against hackers even though those programs have NEVER prevented hackers in any MMO they have been associated with. APB for example uses those programs and they are plagued with aimbots to this day.
Some people may enjoy throwing money at a game that rolls back levels earned and constantly crashing servers, I don't. I originally preordered and bought the Season Pass DLC. But after all the above happened, Steam gave me a full refund on it all and apologized.
I have to agree, keeping the damage client side was a monumentally stupid decision. Why have you got a picture of a multiple-amputee with her face stuck in a wall?
So what you would blame a sporting officiating body if an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs? It's their fault for not testing everybody on a regular basis. That's somewhat of a backwards view. If the rules state no drugs and an athlete takes drugs, whether or not they are ever caught the athlete is in the wrong.
Trion isn't in the wrong here. Just because it might be easy to hack or they have left a backdoor wide open. It's not their fault people decide to cheat. People that cheat are in the minority, the majority of gamers do not cheat. Just because there is an open invitation doesn't mean for one minute that most gamers would ever compromise their integrity. Making it easy or hard for somebody is not the issue. If you cheat your moral compass is skewed.
Another mountain out of molehill, for the people that seem to want to pick fault with this game at every level. You want to reproach the developer for an occurrence that happens in nearly ever online game at some point. When the people you need to looking at are the cheats themselves, not the developer. They have free will, they are not being forced to cheat.
Don't know what levels you are talking about but sorry you can play white knight till end of times but Trion screwed up this one by keeping weapon damage client side. We don't live in some idle world where people don't exploit and cheat. That is why devs need to do their part.
I guess you also gave SOE a free pass when large number of accounts and credit card info were stolen fromr them 2 years ago? because obviously they had no responsbility to strengthen security from their own side.
You assume that only because Trion acted like a complete rookie in designing the game that means people are not taking into account action of cheaters.
Both are responsible....you are the only one giving free pass to Trion here.
Even though I've seen a couple of cheater each of them reported and never seen again, the game is not based on a competitive model thus it really doesn't ruin the game to the degree it does to other TPS out there which are heavily reliant on pvp etc. The worst case in pve is the cheater kills an arkfall faster for you, sure you feel that you got cheated by not actually killing the final boss spawn but honestly you are relieved sometimes cause some of them are bugged, some take way too long to complete when there aren't enough players etc. In the case of PVP, which isn't the central focus the cheater quickly gets bored if he is one shotting players cause soon enough no one joins his que of pvp. As for shadow wars the same applies and its big enough to avoid such cheaters and report as well. I think the key aspect should be players are reporting these issues but to say cheating is ruining Defiance is over exaggerating when the world is quite large and the events are many and varying.
Either way it's a great game fun to play around in, play around with weapons etc, different builds and ego combinations and the missions are darn fun even with a random group of players. I'm sure Trion is addressing the issue as best as possible but honestly when you think about it all the cheaters want is attention and watching them cheat on youtube, twitch tv only helps promote cheating, encourage them etc. So stop watching them and soon they'll stop broadcaasting it/cheat.
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I have been playing since beta and not yet I have come across one of these so called hackers. I think the whole hacking thing is just yet anouther way to attempt to bring Trion down. If you say the sky is pink and you say it enough times people may start to belive you. After all its the internet and every thing is true on the internet. If hacking was soooooooo bad I dont I see every other player hacked??? Trust me I am a MMO vet I can spot hackers a mile away and yet to come across any in Defiance.