Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey When looking through the forums I see allot of people say "I hope X game fails". I am curious where the logic is in hoping a game fails.
Do you actually read the posts properly that hope a game 'fails'? Usually the folks hoping for this state their reasons.
I would guess that you actually do but just choose to ignore their points because they might not agree with your own.
Great assumption, you must make allot of money as a fortune teller.
Hey, I made no predictions. I clearly asked a question and clearly said I was making a guess.
I am fully prepared for that guess to be wrong but you don't bother to point out how it could be, prefering to use cliche generic forum responses that don't actually mean anything.
No, you made a smart ass comment and I replied with a smart ass comment. You know your intent, don't be silly.
Originally posted by Slampig Love how this took about 5 replies to devolve into an anti-WoW thread... Way to not stick to the topic, then again, seems typical for this sites users...
People who think WoW failing = new and innovative mmo games are like people who think that no more religion = no more pointless wars.
There wouldn't be massive innovations, there would just be a new popular kid and then everyone copying them. If WoW was a sandbox, then every clone would be a sandbox. And amusingly enough, people would get sick of them because they would have been inundated with sandboxes to the point where they cry out for them to fail and ask for themeparks.
A game that promotes an unhealthy shift in the gengre/industry, a game that screws over its players, these deserve to close, to encourage other devs NOT to follow their example.
SWTOR needed to die to show that themeparks with monthly fees don't work, and that anti-MMOs are not popular with the MMO crowd.
I think you are wrong. I still think the sub model is the best payment model from the gamers perspective.
I agree, but to get subscriptions, you need to desgin an MMO in pretty much the opposite way SWTOR is designed.
A game that promotes an unhealthy shift in the gengre/industry, a game that screws over its players, these deserve to close, to encourage other devs NOT to follow their example.
SWTOR needed to die to show that themeparks with monthly fees don't work, and that anti-MMOs are not popular with the MMO crowd.
I think you are wrong. I still think the sub model is the best payment model from the gamers perspective.
I agree, but to get subscriptions, you need to desgin an MMO in pretty much the opposite way SWTOR is designed.
If you mean that it needs to be designed to make the gamers happy, then I agree.
People wishing for the failure of things that do not hurt anyone physically or emotionally are sick.
I wich the best to all of you may the best win, thats gallant and knightly. Now compare that i hope you die so i will win attitude and it tells you more then enough about those people saying so.
This. It is a disappointing thing to see fellow gamers do.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey When looking through the forums I see allot of people say "I hope X game fails". I am curious where the logic is in hoping a game fails. Just because a certain game is not for you, what do you benefit if it fails? I personally do not care for most of the MMOs out right now, but I know allot of people enjoy them. I don't see why hoping a game someone else enjoys fails can be a benefit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not persecuting those who make those statements, I am just curious as to why they are made?
I would guess 99% of such people have problems in space between ears, nothing to understan, no logic there. Psychiatrists have full hands of work and this is good for them. :-)
I personally don't want any MMO to fail, even if I dislike it or disagree with it immensely. STO is a good example for me to use here.... I completely disagree with J.J. Abrams "new and improved" Star Trek Lore, I dislike Cryptic and PWI and how they do business, but I don't spend all day making forum posts about how upset I am about it. Rather I simply keep my opinion about STO to myself (most of the time) and let Players that enjoy STO simply enjoy it.
So here are my ideas (imo) on why some People want MMOs to fail....
1.) As stated in other posts there are those that believe that *IF* the current MMOs fail (the ones they disagree with), *THEN* hopefully new MMOs will get created that do pass Player Inspection and answer expectations. A nice and good intention imo. Worthy of a good protest Cause.
Problem is it won't work. Number One reason is this: They are forgetting a key dynamic that always affects the formula of something like this. Once the "Investors" (Financial Elite) get their hands on something, anything, they never let go.Fact of Life for Humans for 10,000 years. They are like a nasty weed that you can't get out of your lawn once it arrives. Sure a MMO needs to make a profit to survive, but once Profit is more important than the Players in a MMO then the problems begin from a Players point of view. Quality will suffer, New Content will be less, Bug Fixes less frequent, all because they cost money that makes the Quarterly Reports look bad. The MMO genre had a period of time where the priority in Development was quality and creativity, innovation for the sake of the game, all from a Player's and Devs point of view, when enough money was made to keep the Server Hampsters fed and running.... but those days are forever gone. Now all we will see out of any MMO (even Indys) is that Money/Profit will now always be the priority, game quality taking a back seat.
Those trying to kill MMOs in hopes for a rebirth of the genre are wasting their time unfortunately. If they are as wise and worldly as they claim to be then they already privately know this. I don't like it myself, but my opinion matters zilch compared to the opinions of the Financial Elite and their minions. When the day comes that they don't make money from MMOs they will still control them in the Board Rooms and in the Universities, and other "places"... by influencing decisions and education....As they control almost everything else. That's just Real Life Folks.
2.) Some People are just jerks and want any MMO to fail either because it isn't their favorite MMO or because they just want to see the tears flow. Humans are monsters at our most basic level and the internet proves it beyond all doubt in my mind.
3.) SOME POSTERS HERE aren't just Players, they are employees of major MMO Publishers and their job is to post of forums and support their employers interests while working against the interests of competing MMO Publishers. They build Hype and fight against the other guy's MMOs. Whether these Posters actually get paid for their services is irrelevant, their actions prove their loyalties and motives.
4.) and finally some Posters here like me are just former Idealists that have had one too many of our dreams turned into a flaming grocery bag on our Porch, and now we tend to be cynical about everything. I try to never let my cynical nature cause me to wish any MMO to fail, even the ones I am disgusted with.
Self centered people who can not look past their own nose make such comments. They refuse to accept that there are many others who enjoy the games they hate.
So basically if you hate an 'x' MMO it should die. How can you argue with such people?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by RefMinor When it is another crappy generic WoW clone, it's failure will herald the moving of the market away from such dross. It's success means there is still money to be made and developers will not look towards innovation.
Players scream for innovation till they get it. then they says, "thats strange", "I don't like that why couldn't they make it more like game X". Overall gamers are a fickle lot who really don't know what they want and trusting the vocal minority is never a good idea. just saying......
Just play the games and don't visit these forums, half of haters are kids who by the looks of it will live empty and troubled lives. the other half are kids who grew older.
Well if it does well, it tells investors to put their money towards similar projects. If I don't want to see "Similar Projects" then I would advocate for the abolishment of said game from the annals of history.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey When looking through the forums I see allot of people say "I hope X game fails". I am curious where the logic is in hoping a game fails. Just because a certain game is not for you, what do you benefit if it fails? I personally do not care for most of the MMOs out right now, but I know allot of people enjoy them. I don't see why hoping a game someone else enjoys fails can be a benefit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not persecuting those who make those statements, I am just curious as to why they are made?
because developers make the same game for the same people, over, and over, and over again. It's sickening.
It's tragedy that reskinned MMOs don't fail, but hey they make millions, so let's just enjoy another decade of last decade
Self centered people who can not look past their own nose make such comments. They refuse to accept that there are many others who enjoy the games they hate.
So basically if you hate an 'x' MMO it should die. How can you argue with such people?
Becasue of course there is only one playstyle. ie Everyone only loves Sandboxes thus all themeparks must die. There is no room for people to play themeparks in our Sandbox only world!
Just using Sandboxes as a example as the Sandbox crowd has already entered this thread trying to rationalize their hate as a force for good (in their eyes) in this thread. Sadly weither Sandbox or themepark or whatever weird term they use to define themselves , some people are simply unable to understand not everyones the same. that perhaps other people like other things and should be allowed to rather then being forced to bend to the ideas and opinions of a few who can't see beyound their own personal beliefs/playstyles.
In the end its always eaasier to blame WoW for ruining gaming rather then owe up to the fact many games made since then (themepark or Sandbox) have failed on thier own poor merits
Originally posted by Panzerbase Just play the games and don't visit these forums, half of haters are kids who by the looks of it will live empty and troubled lives. the other half are kids who grew older.
Yeah, this site has its uses as far as finding new games, etc, but some things should be taken with a grain of salt.
They are exactly like the people following tv shows, where people hope one show dies because they don't like it.
Bands vs bands, or just make a comment about how katy perry and justin biever are great in a random bands youtube section
Star trek vs star wars
Sports fans hating a team, and getting as much satisfaction (or more) when that team loses as compared to when their team wins
Hating an ex more than you loved her when you were together
There is a very thin line between love and hate, and that's why you get fans of one game hoping another game dies.
Star trek totally rules all Star wars fans are old farts that can't let go of their failed childhoods...
Urr wait, are we talking about games or intolerance bordering on Bigotry that some players in their blindness try and pass off as being good for the genre?
we feel the death of games we don't enjoy might shift development more in the direction we prefer.
see: preset rise of sandboxes after many themeparks including swtor failed.
Completely agree with this. The MMO community, from my experience, has spiraled downward. Players care less about the greater good and more about their self-interests (it's all about me). Leading to mindless grind fests like we have in MMOs today that take the player on a railway to nowhere. Sandboxes actually worked, sure, they didn't attract millions and millions of players; but, they certainly weren't failures because they lacked any "endgame". Endgame grinding became somewhat of a standard after WoW became a huge success. Now people have that set in their brains as an expectation for what an MMORPG "MUST HAVE". I can think of an MMORPG right off the top of my head that has been a huge success and is still growing, it has no end game grinding. It's purely a sandbox. Granted the community in EVE isn't very hospitable; but, it shows that a sandbox works, even today.
I personally don't want any MMO to fail, even if I dislike it or disagree with it immensely. STO is a good example for me to use here.... I completely disagree with J.J. Abrams "new and improved" Star Trek Lore, I dislike Cryptic and PWI and how they do business, but I don't spend all day making forum posts about how upset I am about it. Rather I simply keep my opinion about STO to myself (most of the time) and let Players that enjoy STO simply enjoy it.
So here are my ideas (imo) on why some People want MMOs to fail....
1.) As stated in other posts there are those that believe that *IF* the current MMOs fail (the ones they disagree with), *THEN* hopefully new MMOs will get created that do pass Player Inspection and answer expectations. A nice and good intention imo. Worthy of a good protest Cause.
Problem is it won't work. Number One reason is this: They are forgetting a key dynamic that always affects the formula of something like this. Once the "Investors" (Financial Elite) get their hands on something, anything, they never let go.Fact of Life for Humans for 10,000 years. They are like a nasty weed that you can't get out of your lawn once it arrives. Sure a MMO needs to make a profit to survive, but once Profit is more important than the Players in a MMO then the problems begin from a Players point of view. Quality will suffer, New Content will be less, Bug Fixes less frequent, all because they cost money that makes the Quarterly Reports look bad. The MMO genre had a period of time where the priority in Development was quality and creativity, innovation for the sake of the game, all from a Player's and Devs point of view, when enough money was made to keep the Server Hampsters fed and running.... but those days are forever gone. Now all we will see out of any MMO (even Indys) is that Money/Profit will now always be the priority, game quality taking a back seat.
Those trying to kill MMOs in hopes for a rebirth of the genre are wasting their time unfortunately. If they are as wise and worldly as they claim to be then they already privately know this. I don't like it myself, but my opinion matters zilch compared to the opinions of the Financial Elite and their minions. When the day comes that they don't make money from MMOs they will still control them in the Board Rooms and in the Universities, and other "places"... by influencing decisions and education....As they control almost everything else. That's just Real Life Folks.
2.) Some People are just jerks and want any MMO to fail either because it isn't their favorite MMO or because they just want to see the tears flow. Humans are monsters at our most basic level and the internet proves it beyond all doubt in my mind.
3.) SOME POSTERS HERE aren't just Players, they are employees of major MMO Publishers and their job is to post of forums and support their employers interests while working against the interests of competing MMO Publishers. They build Hype and fight against the other guy's MMOs. Whether these Posters actually get paid for their services is irrelevant, their actions prove their loyalties and motives.
4.) and finally some Posters here like me are just former Idealists that have had one too many of our dreams turned into a flaming grocery bag on our Porch, and now we tend to be cynical about everything. I try to never let my cynical nature cause me to wish any MMO to fail, even the ones I am disgusted with.
A game that promotes an unhealthy shift in the gengre/industry, a game that screws over its players, these deserve to close, to encourage other devs NOT to follow their example.
SWTOR needed to die to show that themeparks with monthly fees don't work, and that anti-MMOs are not popular with the MMO crowd.
I think you are wrong. I still think the sub model is the best payment model from the gamers perspective.
I agree, but to get subscriptions, you need to desgin an MMO in pretty much the opposite way SWTOR is designed.
If you mean that it needs to be designed to make the gamers happy, then I agree.
This just proves how in the minority you haters are, as tonnes of people still play SWTOR. The difference is the tonnes of players that are happy are simply content in enjoying the game, while you haters like making a lot of noise cause either you have too much time on your hands, and/or you think MMOs should revolve around you. Well, why should MMOs revolve around the complainers with too much time on their hands? Exactly, they shouldn't. Instead they revolve our the people who are enjoying the game who out-number the haters.
"I hope this game fails" is always geared toward Theme Park games. If another Theme Park flops, it brings the genre closer to Sandbox... or at least something with more depth and complexity.
Excelent, you sir (or lady) just made my day. And the commenters on the video the rest of the week
As for the topic, once again you where spot on. If you don't like the game why the need to doom it? Just don't play it. I completely understand the explanations of "the whole copycat game needs to die", but you know, maybe someone will someday create something compelling in this dying genre we call rollercoaster.
Although I'm not sure why are you all cheering up for sandboxes, they're even more boring if you ask me.
EDIT: ok it's theme park not rollercoaster, but I'm leaving that in the original text
This just proves how in the minority you haters are, as tonnes of people still play SWTOR. The difference is the tonnes of players that are happy are simply content in enjoying the game, while you haters like making a lot of noise cause either you have too much time on your hands, and/or you think MMOs should revolve around you. Well, why should MMOs revolve around the complainers with too much time on their hands? Exactly, they shouldn't. Instead they revolve our the people who are enjoying the game who out-number the haters.
Ah but it's all about:
you know, he hates it, so all of them who love it are wrong and they NEED TO KNOW they're wrong
Comments
No, you made a smart ass comment and I replied with a smart ass comment. You know your intent, don't be silly.
Yeah you are right, didn't take long at all.
Hahaha epic
People who think WoW failing = new and innovative mmo games are like people who think that no more religion = no more pointless wars.
There wouldn't be massive innovations, there would just be a new popular kid and then everyone copying them. If WoW was a sandbox, then every clone would be a sandbox. And amusingly enough, people would get sick of them because they would have been inundated with sandboxes to the point where they cry out for them to fail and ask for themeparks.
Grass is greener syndrome is everywhere you look.
I agree, but to get subscriptions, you need to desgin an MMO in pretty much the opposite way SWTOR is designed.
If you mean that it needs to be designed to make the gamers happy, then I agree.
This. It is a disappointing thing to see fellow gamers do.
I would guess 99% of such people have problems in space between ears, nothing to understan, no logic there. Psychiatrists have full hands of work and this is good for them. :-)
"What's with the "I hope this game fails" crowd?"
I personally don't want any MMO to fail, even if I dislike it or disagree with it immensely. STO is a good example for me to use here.... I completely disagree with J.J. Abrams "new and improved" Star Trek Lore, I dislike Cryptic and PWI and how they do business, but I don't spend all day making forum posts about how upset I am about it. Rather I simply keep my opinion about STO to myself (most of the time) and let Players that enjoy STO simply enjoy it.
So here are my ideas (imo) on why some People want MMOs to fail....
1.) As stated in other posts there are those that believe that *IF* the current MMOs fail (the ones they disagree with), *THEN* hopefully new MMOs will get created that do pass Player Inspection and answer expectations. A nice and good intention imo. Worthy of a good protest Cause.
Problem is it won't work. Number One reason is this: They are forgetting a key dynamic that always affects the formula of something like this. Once the "Investors" (Financial Elite) get their hands on something, anything, they never let go.Fact of Life for Humans for 10,000 years. They are like a nasty weed that you can't get out of your lawn once it arrives. Sure a MMO needs to make a profit to survive, but once Profit is more important than the Players in a MMO then the problems begin from a Players point of view. Quality will suffer, New Content will be less, Bug Fixes less frequent, all because they cost money that makes the Quarterly Reports look bad. The MMO genre had a period of time where the priority in Development was quality and creativity, innovation for the sake of the game, all from a Player's and Devs point of view, when enough money was made to keep the Server Hampsters fed and running.... but those days are forever gone. Now all we will see out of any MMO (even Indys) is that Money/Profit will now always be the priority, game quality taking a back seat.
Those trying to kill MMOs in hopes for a rebirth of the genre are wasting their time unfortunately. If they are as wise and worldly as they claim to be then they already privately know this. I don't like it myself, but my opinion matters zilch compared to the opinions of the Financial Elite and their minions. When the day comes that they don't make money from MMOs they will still control them in the Board Rooms and in the Universities, and other "places"... by influencing decisions and education....As they control almost everything else. That's just Real Life Folks.
2.) Some People are just jerks and want any MMO to fail either because it isn't their favorite MMO or because they just want to see the tears flow. Humans are monsters at our most basic level and the internet proves it beyond all doubt in my mind.
3.) SOME POSTERS HERE aren't just Players, they are employees of major MMO Publishers and their job is to post of forums and support their employers interests while working against the interests of competing MMO Publishers. They build Hype and fight against the other guy's MMOs. Whether these Posters actually get paid for their services is irrelevant, their actions prove their loyalties and motives.
4.) and finally some Posters here like me are just former Idealists that have had one too many of our dreams turned into a flaming grocery bag on our Porch, and now we tend to be cynical about everything. I try to never let my cynical nature cause me to wish any MMO to fail, even the ones I am disgusted with.
Self centered people who can not look past their own nose make such comments. They refuse to accept that there are many others who enjoy the games they hate.
So basically if you hate an 'x' MMO it should die. How can you argue with such people?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Players scream for innovation till they get it. then they says, "thats strange", "I don't like that why couldn't they make it more like game X". Overall gamers are a fickle lot who really don't know what they want and trusting the vocal minority is never a good idea. just saying......
Well if it does well, it tells investors to put their money towards similar projects. If I don't want to see "Similar Projects" then I would advocate for the abolishment of said game from the annals of history.
It's simple really.
because developers make the same game for the same people, over, and over, and over again. It's sickening.
It's tragedy that reskinned MMOs don't fail, but hey they make millions, so let's just enjoy another decade of last decade
Becasue of course there is only one playstyle. ie Everyone only loves Sandboxes thus all themeparks must die. There is no room for people to play themeparks in our Sandbox only world!
Just using Sandboxes as a example as the Sandbox crowd has already entered this thread trying to rationalize their hate as a force for good (in their eyes) in this thread. Sadly weither Sandbox or themepark or whatever weird term they use to define themselves , some people are simply unable to understand not everyones the same. that perhaps other people like other things and should be allowed to rather then being forced to bend to the ideas and opinions of a few who can't see beyound their own personal beliefs/playstyles.
In the end its always eaasier to blame WoW for ruining gaming rather then owe up to the fact many games made since then (themepark or Sandbox) have failed on thier own poor merits
Yeah, this site has its uses as far as finding new games, etc, but some things should be taken with a grain of salt.
Star trek totally rules all Star wars fans are old farts that can't let go of their failed childhoods...
Urr wait, are we talking about games or intolerance bordering on Bigotry that some players in their blindness try and pass off as being good for the genre?
Completely agree with this. The MMO community, from my experience, has spiraled downward. Players care less about the greater good and more about their self-interests (it's all about me). Leading to mindless grind fests like we have in MMOs today that take the player on a railway to nowhere. Sandboxes actually worked, sure, they didn't attract millions and millions of players; but, they certainly weren't failures because they lacked any "endgame". Endgame grinding became somewhat of a standard after WoW became a huge success. Now people have that set in their brains as an expectation for what an MMORPG "MUST HAVE". I can think of an MMORPG right off the top of my head that has been a huge success and is still growing, it has no end game grinding. It's purely a sandbox. Granted the community in EVE isn't very hospitable; but, it shows that a sandbox works, even today.
I agree. Very well thought out and written post.
This just proves how in the minority you haters are, as tonnes of people still play SWTOR. The difference is the tonnes of players that are happy are simply content in enjoying the game, while you haters like making a lot of noise cause either you have too much time on your hands, and/or you think MMOs should revolve around you. Well, why should MMOs revolve around the complainers with too much time on their hands? Exactly, they shouldn't. Instead they revolve our the people who are enjoying the game who out-number the haters.
Excelent, you sir (or lady) just made my day. And the commenters on the video the rest of the week
As for the topic, once again you where spot on. If you don't like the game why the need to doom it? Just don't play it. I completely understand the explanations of "the whole copycat game needs to die", but you know, maybe someone will someday create something compelling in this dying genre we call rollercoaster.
Although I'm not sure why are you all cheering up for sandboxes, they're even more boring if you ask me.
EDIT: ok it's theme park not rollercoaster, but I'm leaving that in the original text
Ah but it's all about:
you know, he hates it, so all of them who love it are wrong and they NEED TO KNOW they're wrong