SOE has also done something else horribly wrong with the NGE:
SWG, primarily pre-CU, was a game that appealed to alot of social and casual gamers. I knew many female gamers who loved SWG for the customization, socialization (cantinas, dancers, etc), and being able to decorate your hotel, house, etc. This is now gone. The community is gone.
It seems as if they are trying to appeal to a more "twitch" type hardcore gamer, which they will never get because they are all playing World of Warcraft or some FPS.
SWG has its player base... it had it's fans... it had its' nich in the market. Why couldn't they be happy with just that? Pre-CU, it was such a unique game. Sure, there were problems primarily with melee classes and buffs, but those could be easily fixed. They've ruined it now.
All I would want is for people to give the NGE an honest go without an pre-conceptions. This means, sadly for vets, starting fresh with a new character. If you do this and really give it an honest try I think you'll love it. I only bother to say this because I am loving it, and more than any MMORPG in a long long time.
I recently bought CoV and was playing EQ2, and although both of those games are exquisite, I simply can't tear myself away from SWG. I just love it now and will be playing it for some time to come. If I run out of content at level 30, I have EQ2 to fall back on until they put more in.
I agree with some of En1gma's review, although I must say that it seemed somewhat to be written to not draw fire from the anti-SOE crowd, and I don't think that is what journalism is about. However I respect him a lot and will acquiesce and say it was a fair and objective review.
"The Jedi who spent months, if not, years to unlock their Jedi powers are the biggest victims of the NGE."
No I think the people that paid $2000US and more for Jedi on Ebay would be.
If SWG wins no other awards then I will award it the "biggest screw up of an unscrewable franchise in MMO history for the first SWG" and then back to back anual awards for the NGE.
unforgiveable
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Razorback :orginaly posted by Dana Massey "The Jedi who spent months, if not, years to unlock their Jedi powers are the biggest victims of the NGE." No I think the people that paid $2000US and more for Jedi on Ebay would be. If SWG wins no other awards then I will award it the "biggest screw up of an unscrewable franchise in MMO history for the first SWG" and then back to back anual awards for the NGE. unforgiveable
Buying third party parts of the game is their decision and is it not endorsed by LA (or at least not sales on EBay) then they are not really beholden to that segment of their population.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I've never played the previous version of SW:G, so I'm not going to comment on the changes, but only on my impressions as a first-time player. I signed up for the free trial a few days ago, and just now deleted it off my HD. Based only on that brief experience, I think that most of what Rob Hinman writes is spot on (although some proofing of the text wouldn't have gone amiss - more on that at the end of the post). I'd score it lower, but it's his review.
I've played a few MMORPGs off and on throughout the years, cutting my teeth on EQ back in the day and spending a few months here and there on Anarchy Online, Eve Online, DAoC, Puzzle Pirates, Saga of Ryzom, Horizons, Guild Wars and most recently, World of Warcraft.
I really liked the character customization (one of WoW's major failings), so my first impression was quite favorable. I'm probably far from the average MMORPG player, though. My two main motivators are exploration and role playing. The thing that kills a game for me is invariably grinding - I have neither the time nor inclination to spend eight hours a day to become Mr Server Big Shot.
So, after the obvious pandering of the cheesy Millennium Falcon rescue opening (Ooh, I get to met Han and Chewie, because the SW universe is teeny-tiny, just like in the last three movies), I was dismayed to find the opening levels to be extremely limited in scope and full of the most inane run-and-grind tasks. The fifth time I went over to Omega Station, I really started losing faith, because following a zipping blue line through a brown maze to perform a task that takes a twentieth of the time it took me to get there is just not too inspiring.
Yes, an MMO needs time sinks, but if it's all about getting from point A to B and then back to A, that's just punishing players - especially in the early stages of the game. At a later point, such things are more warranted, when players are invested in their characters and have - hopefully - become part of the server community.
Graphically, it looked adequate (although the profession selection screen and the circle of abilities look incredibly amateurish - the use of the Star Wars font adds nothing but a dated 70's feel, especially when it's not reflected in any other part of the design). What really disturbed me, however, was character movement and motion. The smallest ledge will stop you dead, and jumping is just a farce, both visually and in effect. Yet you can easily walk through desks, chairs and boxes. And, you can sit in an already occupied seat, which may not be a big deal, but seeing your character merge with an NPC, the only thing that springs to mind is shoddy programming and planning.
Once I started getting various enhancements and abilites, I was dismayed that there seemed to be no customization allowed at all. I figured this would come later, but reading the posts here, that does not seem to be the case. This is just weird, since this is a major part of the appeal of games of this type. You might not want to force players to make such decisions early on, before they really know what the effects will be, but to remove it entirely is an odd choice.
I'll admit that the starship combat looked like it might be fun once you get adept at it, but it was certainly not enough to make me spend any money on the game, not least since it seems to require quite a bit of practice to get good at.
I don't understand who LucasArts thinks they're going to attract with this. It's not geared to FPS fans, role players, space/air combat afficionados nor MMORPG stalwarts. Instead, it's a weird mix of game play styles mostly dumbed down to be immediately graspable by even the most dim of customers. Maybe that's the goal; to attract the slow-witted segment, which really has been underserved in the often complex world of MMOs.
And now, some proofing, which I bother with only because I really like the site, okay? It's not meant to be snarky, so feel free to delete from here, if you make changes:
SWG has done multiple changes to the game
You don't do changes, and properly speaking it wasn't SWG that made them.
Without further adieu
Literally means "Without further goodbye". You probably mean "without further ado".
Star Wars Galaxies still provides us with the same good graphics they have always provided us since release
Two "provided" in the same sentence, and "always" and "since release" are redundant.
is a nice touch to the Star Wars genre
It may be a nice touch of the Star Wars genre or it adds a nice touch to the game. I'm actually not really sure what exactly you're going for.
Ive had a many good hours
"Many a good hour" or drop the "a".
However, if you still want a good role-playing server then I would still suggest Starsider. There are still some out there who is willing to role-play.
Two "still" in the first sentence, and "some" is a plural, so it shoud be "are", not "is".
For those who never bought the expansion they will now have the invaluable expansion
Two "expansion". The other could be changed to "add-on", perhaps?
The tutorial and beginning quests were very fun.
For some reason "fun" doesn't take the modifier of "very" (I'm really no grammar expert). It was "lots of fun" or "very entertaining".
The Jedi who spent months, if not, years
Drop the second comma.
Dantoinne to Tatoinne.
Dantooine and Tatooine.
they have one of the worse customer services... the NGE was the worse thing since...
Worst, not worse.
Also, are MMO and MMORPG capped or not? You go back and forth on this.
I'm sure most of these (except maybe adieu) are things you're well aware of, and which only slipped through since proofing your own text is almost impossible to do well. But I see a little too much of this on your site for it to look as professional as it really deserves to. You should try to implement som peer proofing system between the different writers here (and spellcheck, to avoid non-words like "apocolyptic", which I saw in another piece).
Either way, keep up the good work informing us MMORPG nuts. You provide an invaluable resource, even with a few typos and mangled sentences here and there.
This is my first post, and as a warning, it is a long post.
I came here because of the feature articles on Star Wars Galaxies in this strange and controversial period in its history.
I especially am intrigued by the editorial by Dana Massey entitled, "Fixing the Game: Whether You Like It or Not!" I have to say it was thought provoking, and points to a much deeper issue in the MMOG genre.
At first, I interpreted the NGE as an attempt to change the game to conform to the expectations of the gaming public. This would be the reasonable explanation. MMOGs are big business, and it would make sense that the providers would want to capture the greatest market share possible.
But as I read into the interview, and the editorial, it seemed to me that this alone did not explain the actions of LA and SOE. After all, Star Wars Galaxies had within months of its release close to 400,000 subscribers, steady box sales, and a bright future. Unless I am mistaken, it was always the most profitable and popular of all of SOEs titles, even throughout 2005. Even Casey Keefe admitted, "Galaxies has always been a good game, but was failing to capture the true Star Wars experience."
So it seems clear to me that the change was not prompted by the typical reasons changes come about. It had to be about a cultural difference specific to the MMOG, and those who promote the virtues of the MMOG format.
At first, I thought that Massey was calling for the producers of online games to practice restraint. However, upon reflection, I find a lot more similarity between Dana Massey who wrote the editorial, and Casey Keefe, Julio Torres, and all of those responsible for the changes. The reason I do, is because all of them believe as Dana Massey does:
"MMORPGs are unique in that they never truly leave production. They grow and they evolve over the years that they are supported by their companies."
I have no doubt that this statement is true. Every MMOG today proves it to be true. My concern, however, is that when I see this and similar assertions about the protean nature of the genre, they are not made with the intent of stating a fact. They are made by those in MMOG circles to convince us that "never truly leaving production" is proof of the genres strength, rather than proof of the genres failing.
While the NGE may be the most dramatic post-launch change in the history of MMOGs, it is certainly not the only example. Whether it is the diminishing returns change on enhancers in City of Heroes, or the apparently immersion breaking inclusion of elves in Ultima Online, or even the infamous "walk on the moon expansion" for Everquest fans, redefining the game after launch is an accepted practice in MMOG design and administration.
LA and SOE did not start this practice. What they did, however, is take the principle of "growth and evolution" to the next logical step. What I think we need to keep in mind is that something as radical as the NGE was bound to happen in this genre sooner or later. It is the natural progression of the trend we have been seeing in the industry all too often as of late, because change, "growth and evolution," and, "never truly leaving production," are seen as more than necessary realities, but goals in themselves.
I do not see the NGE as ambitious, or "brave." I see it as the latest example of an industry that is so riddled with confusion and doubt, that they dont even believe good games are even possible anymore. I see an industry that is so obsessed with fashionable and radical theories, that they are neglecting common sense practices. The industry tries so hard to be the pioneers of some new paradigm in business, that they not only reject fundamental business practices, they outright refuse to acknowledge their relevance.
I fear for the consumers and players of MMOGs in the future. There is no knowledge that can be gained, and no forethought to be applied, when everything a customer knows about a game can be rendered moot at the whim of the staff. If this trend toward "change for the sake of change" continues, I truly feel that MMOGs will shrink back into a cult phenomenon, appealing only to a few devotees to the genre.
There is evidence from the Star Wars Galaxies community boards that the NGE has set the entire industry back five years in terms of the public acceptance of MMOGs. The public is skeptical of not only LA and SOE, but also the entire genre. What is to say that this sort of incident cannot happen in Blizzards game, or Mythics games, or Turbines offerings? The playing public is starting to realize that if one development house can do this sort of radical redefinition, then all are potentially capable of it. This is just one more problematic aspect of the genre added on top of the already numerous problematic considerations for the public to weigh with regard to MMOGs.
The fact that the public has to absorb more than the box price, and the games have a non-negotiable life expectancy, means that the customer is already paying far more, for a game that will become useless the moment the servers are shut down at the end of the games run. If anything, MMOG companies must reassure the gaming public that their products are stable, and a good value. They cannot do this when they refuse to put out long-term, stable builds with a definite design philosophy and supporting documentation.
I do recognize that MMOGs must respond to the needs of the live game by providing fresh additions. They also need the flexibility to maintain balance in player versus player activities, as well as player versus environmental activities. In fact, the developers prerogative to change a live game is so crucial; the genre cannot survive without it.
This is why it is of paramount importance for the developers of online games to not abuse the prerogative they have assumed. For if they cannot be held to an obligation to stand by their product, it is only a matter of time before legislation is passed, or litigation is pursued, to force the MMOG industry to stand by their products as originally marketed and designed. There is evidence of this sort of activity being pursued by the players of Star Wars Galaxies as we speak.
We can claim that such litigation is laughable, but the sentiment of such claims is no laughing matter. For as much as the MMOG circles would like the public to adopt their vision of the genre, there is no real evidence that the public proscribes to the doctrine of "never leaving production," and, "growth and evolution." The public makes choices for games based on what the game actually is, not on the basis of what it may or may not be, now and in the foreseeable future.
If MMOG developers will not understand this, then the public will use whatever means is at their disposal to make them understand. For the public does not care about the theoretical musings of The Cesspit, the insider chat found on F13, or the cyberlibertarian musings of Koster. They care only for what every single commodity in the marketplace strives to give them: an honest assessment of what the things they purchase are, and not what they may or may not be at the whim of those who offer them.
If the industry is serious about expanding the genre, then the industry must out of necessity come to a consensus to determine the limits of developmental discretion in altering a post-launch game. Right now, there is no regulation, and it will only continue to undermine consumer confidence in the seriousness of MMOG entertainment.
Rest assured though, if regulation is not done by choice, then I will not be surprised if the developers have that liberty taken from them by judicial ruling, or legislation designed to enforce some consumer protection. As MMOGs get a bigger audience, and further commercial success, they will out of necessity need to be held to higher standards of disclosure, and consumer protections common in other industries.
However, I think the real heart of the issue spawned by the NGE controversy, is how the expectations of the player differ from the expectations of the industry. Players want to support games, not necessarily developers. Online companies see player revenue as a vote of confidence in the developers, not necessarily the games as they are.
Where is the line to be drawn between necessary changes, and wholesale redesigns? For surely it must be drawn somewhere, and it is the burden of the industry as a whole to determine where it is at. Developers themselves, I am sure, do not write out checks for "question marks." They write them out for certainties.
So then how is it that the industry expects the public to fund the MMOG genre, when all they can give the public is a paternalistic lecture on what they should and should not want, and expect? The statement by Mr. Keefe for us to, "give it an honest try," and, not to "cast it off automatically just because its something new" shows how very alien and bizarre those in the MMOG industry sound to the public. Because there is no point in giving it "an honest try," in a genre that admits that it is incapable of being honest. There is no point in not "casting it off automatically just because its something new," when the very MMOG industry prides itself on casting off games automatically just because its not new enough.
To conclude, I would like to congratulate Dana Massey on an editorial that raises important questions in the MMOG industry. However, I do believe that the NGE is a symptom of a deeper problem in the genre, as it attempts to gain mainstream acceptance. For unless we rethink the doctrine that "never leaving production" is an unqualified virtue in online entertainment, we will encounter this problem again, and we will alienate the very players the industry is trying to attract.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Let's be very clear; they may have kep the game but SWG is dead now. I just call this NGE.
Anyone remember their call a few months ago for gamers in the LA area who were males between 14-21? Anyone doubt this was their "focus group of experienced gamers?". Two years ago they issued us a buggy product that appealed to a wide range of players. I have belonged to a guild myself that was 95% players over the age of 29 ranging up to 45 and let me tell you, that has been a RARE experience in my six years playing MMO's. Every effort they've taken since JTL was released and they started their much-vaunted "CU" has been to dumb down the game, and apparently it's worked to well. This is a case of a game purposefully alienating their own base to target a very specific market, which in this case, from SWG's own responses back when they had their cattle call, seems to be affluent teen males who'se parents make enough to issue them credit lines but who are still able to fit in a 6-8 hour daily gaming stint between school, studying, and whatever other socializing they do.
No wonder the game's dying....that can't even make up 5% of what their market was a year ago! And to think, if they'd only done what players requested, and add content to the gamek they'd probably have expanded on word of mouth alone.
I should also just state how infuriating it is to have been lied to by a subscription service. We were told the combat upgrade was going to revolutionize the gameplay and that they would then be attending to the longstanding issues with the other classes. For months they lied about this and then we find the "upgrades" they mentioned for the classes was to delete them. I would have cancelled months earlier if I'd known I was paying them to destroy my Ranger/Creature Handler and Musician/Medic. The lost all respect from me and I will not be purchasing anothe LucasArts issued MMO again, period. Heck, after KOTOR II I will probably just avoid the company altogether.
Oh cmon jedi as a started position isnt a con since it's so hard to get it in the first place only tose who go on websites that sell the info on how to do it actually get there and many of them do by unfair playing
thus whoever put that as a con should get no offence but now atleast no one will cheat to do it
That my friend was one of the best posts I've seen on this board. You should really email me about a writing position with the site
To respond. When I said they never leave production, that is in the sense that the games have ongoing support (developer) and are never "finalized" in that throughout their lives, the companies hire and pay people to expand on them. I am sure you understand this, but what made this different for me is that they changed the core ideals that made the game.
Sadly, our AGC MMO Rant article missed the rant by Jeff Hickman of Mythic. However, he raised this issue as well. Jeff ranted on expansions or patches that go against what sold people the game in the first place. Mythic was admitedly guilty of this with Trials of Atlantis (although not on the scale of NGE). They addressed this by fixing Trials of Atlantis, which by all accounts is a lot more interesting now, and making servers without ToA on it.
DAoC is still actively supported and it must be to keep people playing over several years. If they'd hit a "bug free" stage and locked down all features and code, people would get bored and stop playing.
The difference is, they keep expanding without changing those things on the back of the box (for lack of a better word) that got people into the game in the first place.
This to me is a strength of the industry. I am glad these games do not leave production and continue to get bigger and evolve based on feedback. What I am scared of - and you hit on this - is that the practice of just changing the game wholesale expands beyond this incident in SWG. If I pay $50 and $15 more a month for two years, my $410 dollars has bought me the right to log into a game that at least sticks to the same ideals that made me buy it in the first place. Not to mention does not make changes to my character so dramatic that their profession may no longer even exist.
It is a fine line and a slippery slope that I am worried about as well.
To be clear, I have not played SWG in a very long time. I am not the one to compare the old SWG and the NGE. All I can do is take them at their word that they have moved closer to the "Star Wars experience". I applaud that ideal in theory, they should be shooting for that. My problem is that they should have been shooting for that in beta. That ship has sailed.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
That my friend was one of the best posts I've seen on this board. You should really email me about a writing position with the site
I can see the Ad now...
Vacancy for a writer on MMORPG.com
Desired Applicant : Must be a long winded ego stroker
And Lep Im not gonna get into a discussion about the morals of out of game sales, my point is that it is just another group of players that exist and have been shafted. Along with creature handlers, crafters, long term guilds etc etc etc.
Considering the amount of people that got completely ripped the only real way left to distinguish who might be the most chewed corpse out of all the chewed corpses, you could fall back to the dollar value lost. Maybe Im just too practical of thought, and not extravagant enough of word.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Beatnik59 The statement by Mr. Keefe for us to, "give it an honest try," and, not to "cast it off automatically just because its something new" shows how very alien and bizarre those in the MMOG industry sound to the public. Because there is no point in giving it "an honest try," in a genre that admits that it is incapable of being honest. There is no point in not "casting it off automatically just because its something new," when the very MMOG industry prides itself on casting off games automatically just because its not new enough.
Now you are just being stupid... Read that paragraph again to yourself - out loud if need be. There are some word games in there, sure, but you just said that we shouldn't be open minded and reasonable about change. That's retarded. How can you write this really long thing demanding what you think you deserve while still stating that you will be unreasonable no matter what?
Anybody who puts the player's wants first are obviously missing the big picture - and yes, players want to be unreasonable.
I have to get this out or my head is going to explode. . .
So here it is regardless of the fact that most of it has already been said in one fashion or another.
I liked SWG. It was a game that was not perfect by any stretch....but it took patience, understanding, desire, and love (on the players part) to like and enjoy it. It was an experience that some of us had wanted since 1977. It was all the dreams and fantasies and deep space shootouts that we had in card board boxes or on our porches. It was all the play time with now lost figures that occupied every want of birthdays and christmas since 1977-and those figures were not of only 9 "icons" they were of every person (or being) that was ever in the movies.
The people that I played with in the game were all alot like me. 28 and older that had spent all of those hours and years making up scenarios with our toys or live action on our porches that could finally play and imagine again. It was a Star Wars universe where you could be the "icon" classes but, what was better, was that you could be any of the other figures as well. You could be the weird guy/thing that stood in the corner of the cantina. You could be a bounty hunter that was not Boba Fett. You could be the guy who cries when his rancor dies.
I enjoyed roleplaying a creature handling scout/ranger that spent all of her time on Endor hunting creatures to sell hide and milk to crafters, and that is how she made her living
It was a love of the movies and the culture of Star Wars that brought us to the game, but it was our PASSION for imagination and endless possibilities that kept us there.
And that is why we are passionately furious.
What makes me angry is that I feel as though someone owes two years of subscription fees for what basically turned out to be a two year beta test for a game that now, I would not have bothered to buy. I don't like many of the Star Wars games for the same reason that I no longer like SWG, it feels cheap and hurried. So I guess if by making it more "Star Warsy" they meant making a cheap product to sell to the masses because of a franchise-able name, then they did that.
I am joining what seems to be the legions of people canceling their subscriptions. And if any one knows of an MMORPG that plays like the Star Wars Galaxies that I researched and CHOSE to buy, list them, because I am as of now in the market for a new game.
Oh. . . and let us not forget the Power of CHOICE and our money. Boycotts work, if the numbers are resolute, serious, and many.
I think the NGE just needs time, right now any characters 30+ hate the game cause its the same old lousy grind as always. But players 1-30 love the game because of the added quest and content. Sony obviously rushed the NGE to get people to stay. Lets just HOPE to god they keep adding to the NGE with quest that will carry the game 30-90.
Originally posted by FRODADDY I think the NGE just needs time, right now any characters 30+ hate the game cause its the same old lousy grind as always. But players 1-30 love the game because of the added quest and content. Sony obviously rushed the NGE to get people to stay. Lets just HOPE to god they keep adding to the NGE with quest that will carry the game 30-90.
OUCH ... you sound so much like us 2 years ago. "SWG just needs time" "lets hope they keep adding quests" .... well ... looking back to summer 2003 I would like to give you one sentence of advice : "Don't hold your breath !"
i to have cancealed my acct after 2 years of play and i'm sad to see SWG die the way it is , but also tired of the lies and the way SOE is treating there players. I think there is something that no one has said yet .. the game has been made for a gaming system now ... Soe can say no all they want but the truth will come out just like they always have and its not long before X-mass comes and it will all be made clear.. let me explain alittle more...
SOE/Lucas arts was invited to korea for there first Gaming confrence and the NEW PSP 3 coming out .. this new system is going to take the market by storm and SOE/LA want there hands in it .
So that is why the NGE was put in to place as fast as it was ..... and for the reason its now a twitch system for gaming consoles. like most of you i agree they shuld have made a server for this new NGE system but you have to understadn they could not code it and get it doen before PSP 3 comes out .much earier to make what they have now into a game for a console .. thust the reason why the game has been made simple as far as Professions and that and the reasons crafters are no longer needed...no need for a crafter in a FPS..
this is the reason they have done this and have walked over use and do not care if we stay or go . what they will get from the PSP 3 gaming system far outways the players now .. they are thinking short term cause after 6 moths of PSP 3 the game will be far lacking then the other games coming out for PSP 3.. and in the long run SOE/LA will be scratching there heads .. saying """ What did we Do ""
But on the Bright side .. My girlfriend is so happy to have me back ...lol
You can Beat me.. set my ship on Fire .. even kill me .. just Don't Bore Me....
I played SWG for 2 years and it is now a game for 12 year old and people with ADD, its so dumbed down I refuse to log in and am just letting 4 account die out.
I was a long time SWG player and was in a guild of over 100+ members.Now after going thru the CU and surviving in SWG the news of the NGE hit 1 day after we paid for the newest expansion(TooW).Almost 90% of my guild left the game and moved on to games like wow,CoH,and alot waiting for dark and light.But SWG was stuifid for 14 yr old console kids not the 18+ vet members who have played for over 2 1/2 yrs...Cancelled both my Jedi accounts........
In regards to the editorial hindsight is always an amazing thing is it not??.....I admire the stance taken by the author but i think a few specific examples needed to be included to "capture the essence" of the article.
But it brings out the point that what is more important - what gamers want or the companies that make the games want - it should be a 2 way situation whereupon each feeds and nourishes off each other.
Im sure those behind SWG had performed a large amount of testing before they implemented the changes ( I wont argue the stupidity of not doing so) and so leaves the question - Are those upset, really upset at the way in which they can participate in the game or are the changes just overall bad in judgement?? And what do those who are new to the game think??
Again, they come up with more marketing BS. Most of the hardcore players that have quit did give it a fair chance on TC and up til their subscriptions run out. Saying there are multiple people who liked it means there might have been 2. I never met any of them in game and never saw one positive post on the SWG forums. The game is more riddled with bugs now than it's ever been. I also suppose that reducing the number of proffessions you can play and dumbing down the combat system so that it's nothing more than button mashing now makes a game immersive. In my book it makes a game a joke. SWG was released based on the fact that it portrayed the Star Wars Galaxies beyond the movies. If you wanted to be the crafter that made the speeders the stormies used on Endor then that's what you could do. If you wanted to be a Droid-engineer and build droids all day that's what you could do. Now they completely take the game away from that and make everyone clones of each other and what they think that the movie rolls were. Also if I'm not mistaken, they've screwed up 2 of these in basing the trader on Lando because he was nothing more than a smuggler just like Han, and The "spy" being based on Leia's alternate character who was actually a bh. I really do believe that the people working on SWG now have no idea what the Star Wars Galaxies would have really been like and the fact that they think the new game is more "StarWarsy" is just ridiculous. The RPG part of this MMORPG is now gone. The game has lost a lot if not all of it's uniqueness. If you want a good Star Wars game go get Battlefront 2. Oh, another thing they didn't realize, (sorry it's 6am and i'm still half asleep) is that they are modifying the game for console but what happens to every console game on the market after about 3-6 months. It gets shelved or traded in for something new. I don't know a single hardcore console gamer that would pay to play this bug filled game. And I can't imagine how much it would suck to try and play it with a controller even now that the combat is a complete joke. LA and SOE have lost a lot of the trust they had gained back since the first CU. I know a lot who are holding out for CU3 to come out and put things back to a more RPG style. TO them I say good luck and best wishes. I hope that happens. If it does I'll come back, if not, when my subscription ends on Jan. 4th, I'm done. I support a balanced and fixed profession system that's actually immersive and that I can decide what I want to do and be. Not a gas gauge style prof system where I just get exp and don't get to actually alot my skills as I see fit. That's not immersive I don't care what anyone says. I've played the game since 1 week after launch. I've seen it at it's best and now at it's worst. It's not what it was and I'll no longer play because it's just not fun anymore. If it weren't for the great in game community (most of which have sadly left as well) I'd have already been gone but I tried to give it a chance for the few guildmates I had left and trust me, it's just not worth it anymore.
Originally posted by jokstar the question - Are those upset, really upset at the way in which they can participate in the game or are the changes just overall bad in judgement??
Both for me. I don't like the changes : - the game's complexity and the freedom and depth that were coming from this complexity have been greatly reduced. - the quest-based system is for single player games, I've always thought that thousands of people doing the same quest in the same world is stupid. In the NGE, everyone starts by beeing smuggled out a space station by Han Solo, after having killed a few stormtroopers, and before the space station explodes. How many people will Han Solo have helped ? Doesn't he have other things to do ? How many space stations will have been destroyed ? This does not make sense. The quest game system is not about thousands of players playing together in the same world ; it's about thousand of players playing their own little copy of the world everyone is. - the new combat system is boring and has several flaws. For example : the smaller you are, the harder it is for your opponent to target you. People who want to compete in PvP will want to have the smallest avatar they can. Instead of everyone in composite armor (pre-CU), the game will become everyone is 1 meter tall. - the NGE patch was not polished enough. Many bugs and many missing things were still there when it was applied to the live servers. The day of the patch, I was not able to use my armor and my pistols. What do I do ? They could at least have added a conversion system. - the whole thing is making the game look less polished ; different interface designs (the profession window does not look the same way as the mail window, which does not look the same way as the quest journal, which does not look... etc).
I don't like how they made the community participate. These changes were announced less than 2 weeks before going live. In the previous weeks, they had announced changes about things that have been removed with the NGE. Example : the ranger profession revamp. They have obviously lied and hidden their project, instead of making the community participate.
I admire the fact that they are trying to save the game. But this is too late. They have lacked a vision for 2 years. Lucasarts should restart everything from crap, and make a new game. With other developers if possible, because SOE have not proven their ability to manage this project.
Edit : another thing I hate. In all interviews, the SOE and LA guys are describing the changes as what the community wanted. They are always using the same lame arguments, "the changes are cool and exciting". Maybe they are trying to convince people, by repeating the same speech over and over. There is a huge gap between what they are saying and the reality I'm experiencing.
How many people have left the game so far ? Confirmed cancellations from Naritus galaxy --> see below). You have to consider that these are the forum users only .. maybe 10-20 % of the population of a medium population server. I dont know all of them personally, but its still an impressive list. Seeing so many names of friends on that list makes me want to kick something .. HARD.
That was a very good editorial, Dana. I totally agree. Whether or not the new Star Wars Galaxies game is good or bad is irrelevant. That fact that a 2 year old mmorpg was totally changed, with disregard to it's loyal, long-time subscribers, is a crime, in my opinion.
After trying out the changes, things were not made better for me, as I did not like them one bit. So I will be doing what I think a lot of players will be doing. Cancelling my account.
Originally posted by Razorback And Lep Im not gonna get into a discussion about the morals of out of game sales, my point is that it is just another group of players that exist and have been shafted. Along with creature handlers, crafters, long term guilds etc etc etc.
Agreed - they have. My point was simply that LA has a very good defense when it comes to "shafting" them. They have no responsibility towards them. The same can not be said of long-term subscribers.
Originally posted by Razorback
Originally posted by Lepidus Beatnik59, That my friend was one of the best posts I've seen on this board. You should really email me about a writing position with the site I can see the Ad now... Vacancy for a writer on MMORPG.com Desired Applicant : Must be a long winded ego stroker
The guy disagreed with large portions of my editorial. He made a pretty good argument, it impressed me. There is no need to make personal insults towards him or any other poster.
For the record, I encourage anyone to submit articles to the site who has an opinion. Provided you meet some basic levels of writing - or at least can be edited - and you support your argument, I'll gladly post it.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
The guy disagreed with large portions of my editorial. He made a pretty good argument, it impressed me. There is no need to make personal insults towards him or any other poster.
His argument was fine (even though I would quibble with some of the conclusions drawn), but it's not an insult to note that he writes long-windedly, that's just an observation on his writing style. It is undeniably wordy, and somewhat obtuse with odd word choices (or wrong ones) and iffy punctuation.
Yes, he has a point to make, and touches on many interesting issues raised by the implenetation of the NGE, but could be more concise and clear about it.
Comments
SOE has also done something else horribly wrong with the NGE:
SWG, primarily pre-CU, was a game that appealed to alot of social and casual gamers. I knew many female gamers who loved SWG for the customization, socialization (cantinas, dancers, etc), and being able to decorate your hotel, house, etc. This is now gone. The community is gone.
It seems as if they are trying to appeal to a more "twitch" type hardcore gamer, which they will never get because they are all playing World of Warcraft or some FPS.
SWG has its player base... it had it's fans... it had its' nich in the market. Why couldn't they be happy with just that? Pre-CU, it was such a unique game. Sure, there were problems primarily with melee classes and buffs, but those could be easily fixed. They've ruined it now.
All I would want is for people to give the NGE an honest go without an pre-conceptions. This means, sadly for vets, starting fresh with a new character. If you do this and really give it an honest try I think you'll love it. I only bother to say this because I am loving it, and more than any MMORPG in a long long time.
I recently bought CoV and was playing EQ2, and although both of those games are exquisite, I simply can't tear myself away from SWG. I just love it now and will be playing it for some time to come. If I run out of content at level 30, I have EQ2 to fall back on until they put more in.
I agree with some of En1gma's review, although I must say that it seemed somewhat to be written to not draw fire from the anti-SOE crowd, and I don't think that is what journalism is about. However I respect him a lot and will acquiesce and say it was a fair and objective review.
:orginaly posted by Dana Massey
"The Jedi who spent months, if not, years to unlock their Jedi powers are the biggest victims of the NGE."
No I think the people that paid $2000US and more for Jedi on Ebay would be.
If SWG wins no other awards then I will award it the "biggest screw up of an unscrewable franchise in MMO history for the first SWG" and then back to back anual awards for the NGE.
unforgiveable
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Buying third party parts of the game is their decision and is it not endorsed by LA (or at least not sales on EBay) then they are not really beholden to that segment of their population.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I've never played the previous version of SW:G, so I'm not going to comment on the changes, but only on my impressions as a first-time player. I signed up for the free trial a few days ago, and just now deleted it off my HD. Based only on that brief experience, I think that most of what Rob Hinman writes is spot on (although some proofing of the text wouldn't have gone amiss - more on that at the end of the post). I'd score it lower, but it's his review.
I've played a few MMORPGs off and on throughout the years, cutting my teeth on EQ back in the day and spending a few months here and there on Anarchy Online, Eve Online, DAoC, Puzzle Pirates, Saga of Ryzom, Horizons, Guild Wars and most recently, World of Warcraft.
I really liked the character customization (one of WoW's major failings), so my first impression was quite favorable. I'm probably far from the average MMORPG player, though. My two main motivators are exploration and role playing. The thing that kills a game for me is invariably grinding - I have neither the time nor inclination to spend eight hours a day to become Mr Server Big Shot.
So, after the obvious pandering of the cheesy Millennium Falcon rescue opening (Ooh, I get to met Han and Chewie, because the SW universe is teeny-tiny, just like in the last three movies), I was dismayed to find the opening levels to be extremely limited in scope and full of the most inane run-and-grind tasks. The fifth time I went over to Omega Station, I really started losing faith, because following a zipping blue line through a brown maze to perform a task that takes a twentieth of the time it took me to get there is just not too inspiring.
Yes, an MMO needs time sinks, but if it's all about getting from point A to B and then back to A, that's just punishing players - especially in the early stages of the game. At a later point, such things are more warranted, when players are invested in their characters and have - hopefully - become part of the server community.
Graphically, it looked adequate (although the profession selection screen and the circle of abilities look incredibly amateurish - the use of the Star Wars font adds nothing but a dated 70's feel, especially when it's not reflected in any other part of the design). What really disturbed me, however, was character movement and motion. The smallest ledge will stop you dead, and jumping is just a farce, both visually and in effect. Yet you can easily walk through desks, chairs and boxes. And, you can sit in an already occupied seat, which may not be a big deal, but seeing your character merge with an NPC, the only thing that springs to mind is shoddy programming and planning.
Once I started getting various enhancements and abilites, I was dismayed that there seemed to be no customization allowed at all. I figured this would come later, but reading the posts here, that does not seem to be the case. This is just weird, since this is a major part of the appeal of games of this type. You might not want to force players to make such decisions early on, before they really know what the effects will be, but to remove it entirely is an odd choice.
I'll admit that the starship combat looked like it might be fun once you get adept at it, but it was certainly not enough to make me spend any money on the game, not least since it seems to require quite a bit of practice to get good at.
I don't understand who LucasArts thinks they're going to attract with this. It's not geared to FPS fans, role players, space/air combat afficionados nor MMORPG stalwarts. Instead, it's a weird mix of game play styles mostly dumbed down to be immediately graspable by even the most dim of customers. Maybe that's the goal; to attract the slow-witted segment, which really has been underserved in the often complex world of MMOs.
And now, some proofing, which I bother with only because I really like the site, okay? It's not meant to be snarky, so feel free to delete from here, if you make changes:
SWG has done multiple changes to the game
You don't do changes, and properly speaking it wasn't SWG that made them.
Without further adieu
Literally means "Without further goodbye". You probably mean "without further ado".
Star Wars Galaxies still provides us with the same good graphics they have always provided us since release
Two "provided" in the same sentence, and "always" and "since release" are redundant.
is a nice touch to the Star Wars genre
It may be a nice touch of the Star Wars genre or it adds a nice touch to the game. I'm actually not really sure what exactly you're going for.
Ive had a many good hours
"Many a good hour" or drop the "a".
However, if you still want a good role-playing server then I would still suggest Starsider. There are still some out there who is willing to role-play.
Two "still" in the first sentence, and "some" is a plural, so it shoud be "are", not "is".
For those who never bought the expansion they will now have the invaluable expansion
Two "expansion". The other could be changed to "add-on", perhaps?
The tutorial and beginning quests were very fun.
For some reason "fun" doesn't take the modifier of "very" (I'm really no grammar expert). It was "lots of fun" or "very entertaining".
The Jedi who spent months, if not, years
Drop the second comma.
Dantoinne to Tatoinne.
Dantooine and Tatooine.
they have one of the worse customer services... the NGE was the worse thing since...
Worst, not worse.
Also, are MMO and MMORPG capped or not? You go back and forth on this.
I'm sure most of these (except maybe adieu) are things you're well aware of, and which only slipped through since proofing your own text is almost impossible to do well. But I see a little too much of this on your site for it to look as professional as it really deserves to. You should try to implement som peer proofing system between the different writers here (and spellcheck, to avoid non-words like "apocolyptic", which I saw in another piece).
Either way, keep up the good work informing us MMORPG nuts. You provide an invaluable resource, even with a few typos and mangled sentences here and there.
This is my first post, and as a warning, it is a long post.
I came here because of the feature articles on Star Wars Galaxies in this strange and controversial period in its history.
I especially am intrigued by the editorial by Dana Massey entitled, "Fixing the Game: Whether You Like It or Not!" I have to say it was thought provoking, and points to a much deeper issue in the MMOG genre.
At first, I interpreted the NGE as an attempt to change the game to conform to the expectations of the gaming public. This would be the reasonable explanation. MMOGs are big business, and it would make sense that the providers would want to capture the greatest market share possible.
But as I read into the interview, and the editorial, it seemed to me that this alone did not explain the actions of LA and SOE. After all, Star Wars Galaxies had within months of its release close to 400,000 subscribers, steady box sales, and a bright future. Unless I am mistaken, it was always the most profitable and popular of all of SOEs titles, even throughout 2005. Even Casey Keefe admitted, "Galaxies has always been a good game, but was failing to capture the true Star Wars experience."
So it seems clear to me that the change was not prompted by the typical reasons changes come about. It had to be about a cultural difference specific to the MMOG, and those who promote the virtues of the MMOG format.
At first, I thought that Massey was calling for the producers of online games to practice restraint. However, upon reflection, I find a lot more similarity between Dana Massey who wrote the editorial, and Casey Keefe, Julio Torres, and all of those responsible for the changes. The reason I do, is because all of them believe as Dana Massey does:
"MMORPGs are unique in that they never truly leave production. They grow and they evolve over the years that they are supported by their companies."
I have no doubt that this statement is true. Every MMOG today proves it to be true. My concern, however, is that when I see this and similar assertions about the protean nature of the genre, they are not made with the intent of stating a fact. They are made by those in MMOG circles to convince us that "never truly leaving production" is proof of the genres strength, rather than proof of the genres failing.
While the NGE may be the most dramatic post-launch change in the history of MMOGs, it is certainly not the only example. Whether it is the diminishing returns change on enhancers in City of Heroes, or the apparently immersion breaking inclusion of elves in Ultima Online, or even the infamous "walk on the moon expansion" for Everquest fans, redefining the game after launch is an accepted practice in MMOG design and administration.
LA and SOE did not start this practice. What they did, however, is take the principle of "growth and evolution" to the next logical step. What I think we need to keep in mind is that something as radical as the NGE was bound to happen in this genre sooner or later. It is the natural progression of the trend we have been seeing in the industry all too often as of late, because change, "growth and evolution," and, "never truly leaving production," are seen as more than necessary realities, but goals in themselves.
I do not see the NGE as ambitious, or "brave." I see it as the latest example of an industry that is so riddled with confusion and doubt, that they dont even believe good games are even possible anymore. I see an industry that is so obsessed with fashionable and radical theories, that they are neglecting common sense practices. The industry tries so hard to be the pioneers of some new paradigm in business, that they not only reject fundamental business practices, they outright refuse to acknowledge their relevance.
I fear for the consumers and players of MMOGs in the future. There is no knowledge that can be gained, and no forethought to be applied, when everything a customer knows about a game can be rendered moot at the whim of the staff. If this trend toward "change for the sake of change" continues, I truly feel that MMOGs will shrink back into a cult phenomenon, appealing only to a few devotees to the genre.
There is evidence from the Star Wars Galaxies community boards that the NGE has set the entire industry back five years in terms of the public acceptance of MMOGs. The public is skeptical of not only LA and SOE, but also the entire genre. What is to say that this sort of incident cannot happen in Blizzards game, or Mythics games, or Turbines offerings? The playing public is starting to realize that if one development house can do this sort of radical redefinition, then all are potentially capable of it. This is just one more problematic aspect of the genre added on top of the already numerous problematic considerations for the public to weigh with regard to MMOGs.
The fact that the public has to absorb more than the box price, and the games have a non-negotiable life expectancy, means that the customer is already paying far more, for a game that will become useless the moment the servers are shut down at the end of the games run. If anything, MMOG companies must reassure the gaming public that their products are stable, and a good value. They cannot do this when they refuse to put out long-term, stable builds with a definite design philosophy and supporting documentation.
I do recognize that MMOGs must respond to the needs of the live game by providing fresh additions. They also need the flexibility to maintain balance in player versus player activities, as well as player versus environmental activities. In fact, the developers prerogative to change a live game is so crucial; the genre cannot survive without it.
This is why it is of paramount importance for the developers of online games to not abuse the prerogative they have assumed. For if they cannot be held to an obligation to stand by their product, it is only a matter of time before legislation is passed, or litigation is pursued, to force the MMOG industry to stand by their products as originally marketed and designed. There is evidence of this sort of activity being pursued by the players of Star Wars Galaxies as we speak.
We can claim that such litigation is laughable, but the sentiment of such claims is no laughing matter. For as much as the MMOG circles would like the public to adopt their vision of the genre, there is no real evidence that the public proscribes to the doctrine of "never leaving production," and, "growth and evolution." The public makes choices for games based on what the game actually is, not on the basis of what it may or may not be, now and in the foreseeable future.
If MMOG developers will not understand this, then the public will use whatever means is at their disposal to make them understand. For the public does not care about the theoretical musings of The Cesspit, the insider chat found on F13, or the cyberlibertarian musings of Koster. They care only for what every single commodity in the marketplace strives to give them: an honest assessment of what the things they purchase are, and not what they may or may not be at the whim of those who offer them.
If the industry is serious about expanding the genre, then the industry must out of necessity come to a consensus to determine the limits of developmental discretion in altering a post-launch game. Right now, there is no regulation, and it will only continue to undermine consumer confidence in the seriousness of MMOG entertainment.
Rest assured though, if regulation is not done by choice, then I will not be surprised if the developers have that liberty taken from them by judicial ruling, or legislation designed to enforce some consumer protection. As MMOGs get a bigger audience, and further commercial success, they will out of necessity need to be held to higher standards of disclosure, and consumer protections common in other industries.
However, I think the real heart of the issue spawned by the NGE controversy, is how the expectations of the player differ from the expectations of the industry. Players want to support games, not necessarily developers. Online companies see player revenue as a vote of confidence in the developers, not necessarily the games as they are.
Where is the line to be drawn between necessary changes, and wholesale redesigns? For surely it must be drawn somewhere, and it is the burden of the industry as a whole to determine where it is at. Developers themselves, I am sure, do not write out checks for "question marks." They write them out for certainties.
So then how is it that the industry expects the public to fund the MMOG genre, when all they can give the public is a paternalistic lecture on what they should and should not want, and expect? The statement by Mr. Keefe for us to, "give it an honest try," and, not to "cast it off automatically just because its something new" shows how very alien and bizarre those in the MMOG industry sound to the public. Because there is no point in giving it "an honest try," in a genre that admits that it is incapable of being honest. There is no point in not "casting it off automatically just because its something new," when the very MMOG industry prides itself on casting off games automatically just because its not new enough.
To conclude, I would like to congratulate Dana Massey on an editorial that raises important questions in the MMOG industry. However, I do believe that the NGE is a symptom of a deeper problem in the genre, as it attempts to gain mainstream acceptance. For unless we rethink the doctrine that "never leaving production" is an unqualified virtue in online entertainment, we will encounter this problem again, and we will alienate the very players the industry is trying to attract.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Let's be very clear; they may have kep the game but SWG is dead now. I just call this NGE.
Anyone remember their call a few months ago for gamers in the LA area who were males between 14-21? Anyone doubt this was their "focus group of experienced gamers?". Two years ago they issued us a buggy product that appealed to a wide range of players. I have belonged to a guild myself that was 95% players over the age of 29 ranging up to 45 and let me tell you, that has been a RARE experience in my six years playing MMO's. Every effort they've taken since JTL was released and they started their much-vaunted "CU" has been to dumb down the game, and apparently it's worked to well. This is a case of a game purposefully alienating their own base to target a very specific market, which in this case, from SWG's own responses back when they had their cattle call, seems to be affluent teen males who'se parents make enough to issue them credit lines but who are still able to fit in a 6-8 hour daily gaming stint between school, studying, and whatever other socializing they do.
No wonder the game's dying....that can't even make up 5% of what their market was a year ago! And to think, if they'd only done what players requested, and add content to the gamek they'd probably have expanded on word of mouth alone.
Oh cmon jedi as a started position isnt a con
since it's so hard to get it in the first place
only tose who go on websites that sell the
info on how to do it actually get there and
many of them do by unfair playing
thus whoever put that as a con should get
no offence but now atleast no one will cheat to do it
Beatnik59,
That my friend was one of the best posts I've seen on this board. You should really email me about a writing position with the site
To respond. When I said they never leave production, that is in the sense that the games have ongoing support (developer) and are never "finalized" in that throughout their lives, the companies hire and pay people to expand on them. I am sure you understand this, but what made this different for me is that they changed the core ideals that made the game.
Sadly, our AGC MMO Rant article missed the rant by Jeff Hickman of Mythic. However, he raised this issue as well. Jeff ranted on expansions or patches that go against what sold people the game in the first place. Mythic was admitedly guilty of this with Trials of Atlantis (although not on the scale of NGE). They addressed this by fixing Trials of Atlantis, which by all accounts is a lot more interesting now, and making servers without ToA on it.
DAoC is still actively supported and it must be to keep people playing over several years. If they'd hit a "bug free" stage and locked down all features and code, people would get bored and stop playing.
The difference is, they keep expanding without changing those things on the back of the box (for lack of a better word) that got people into the game in the first place.
This to me is a strength of the industry. I am glad these games do not leave production and continue to get bigger and evolve based on feedback. What I am scared of - and you hit on this - is that the practice of just changing the game wholesale expands beyond this incident in SWG. If I pay $50 and $15 more a month for two years, my $410 dollars has bought me the right to log into a game that at least sticks to the same ideals that made me buy it in the first place. Not to mention does not make changes to my character so dramatic that their profession may no longer even exist.
It is a fine line and a slippery slope that I am worried about as well.
To be clear, I have not played SWG in a very long time. I am not the one to compare the old SWG and the NGE. All I can do is take them at their word that they have moved closer to the "Star Wars experience". I applaud that ideal in theory, they should be shooting for that. My problem is that they should have been shooting for that in beta. That ship has sailed.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Originally posted by Lepidus
Beatnik59,
That my friend was one of the best posts I've seen on this board. You should really email me about a writing position with the site
I can see the Ad now...
Vacancy for a writer on MMORPG.com
Desired Applicant : Must be a long winded ego stroker
And Lep Im not gonna get into a discussion about the morals of out of game sales, my point is that it is just another group of players that exist and have been shafted. Along with creature handlers, crafters, long term guilds etc etc etc.
Considering the amount of people that got completely ripped the only real way left to distinguish who might be the most chewed corpse out of all the chewed corpses, you could fall back to the dollar value lost. Maybe Im just too practical of thought, and not extravagant enough of word.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Anybody who puts the player's wants first are obviously missing the big picture - and yes, players want to be unreasonable.
I have to get this out or my head is going to explode. . .
So here it is regardless of the fact that most of it has already been said in one fashion or another.
I liked SWG. It was a game that was not perfect by any stretch....but it took patience, understanding, desire, and love (on the players part) to like and enjoy it. It was an experience that some of us had wanted since 1977. It was all the dreams and fantasies and deep space shootouts that we had in card board boxes or on our porches. It was all the play time with now lost figures that occupied every want of birthdays and christmas since 1977-and those figures were not of only 9 "icons" they were of every person (or being) that was ever in the movies.
The people that I played with in the game were all alot like me. 28 and older that had spent all of those hours and years making up scenarios with our toys or live action on our porches that could finally play and imagine again. It was a Star Wars universe where you could be the "icon" classes but, what was better, was that you could be any of the other figures as well. You could be the weird guy/thing that stood in the corner of the cantina. You could be a bounty hunter that was not Boba Fett. You could be the guy who cries when his rancor dies.
I enjoyed roleplaying a creature handling scout/ranger that spent all of her time on Endor hunting creatures to sell hide and milk to crafters, and that is how she made her living
It was a love of the movies and the culture of Star Wars that brought us to the game, but it was our PASSION for imagination and endless possibilities that kept us there.
And that is why we are passionately furious.
What makes me angry is that I feel as though someone owes two years of subscription fees for what basically turned out to be a two year beta test for a game that now, I would not have bothered to buy. I don't like many of the Star Wars games for the same reason that I no longer like SWG, it feels cheap and hurried. So I guess if by making it more "Star Warsy" they meant making a cheap product to sell to the masses because of a franchise-able name, then they did that.
I am joining what seems to be the legions of people canceling their subscriptions. And if any one knows of an MMORPG that plays like the Star Wars Galaxies that I researched and CHOSE to buy, list them, because I am as of now in the market for a new game.
Oh. . . and let us not forget the Power of CHOICE and our money. Boycotts work, if the numbers are resolute, serious, and many.
I think the NGE just needs time, right now any characters 30+ hate the game cause its the same old lousy grind as always. But players 1-30 love the game because of the added quest and content. Sony obviously rushed the NGE to get people to stay. Lets just HOPE to god they keep adding to the NGE with quest that will carry the game 30-90.
OUCH ... you sound so much like us 2 years ago. "SWG just needs time" "lets hope they keep adding quests" .... well ... looking back to summer 2003 I would like to give you one sentence of advice : "Don't hold your breath !"
I wish you all the best in NGE.
Have fun
Erillion
i to have cancealed my acct after 2 years of play and i'm sad to see SWG die the way it is , but also tired of the lies and the way SOE is treating there players. I think there is something that no one has said yet .. the game has been made for a gaming system now ... Soe can say no all they want but the truth will come out just like they always have and its not long before X-mass comes and it will all be made clear.. let me explain alittle more...
SOE/Lucas arts was invited to korea for there first Gaming confrence and the NEW PSP 3 coming out .. this new system is going to take the market by storm and SOE/LA want there hands in it .
So that is why the NGE was put in to place as fast as it was ..... and for the reason its now a twitch system for gaming consoles. like most of you i agree they shuld have made a server for this new NGE system but you have to understadn they could not code it and get it doen before PSP 3 comes out .much earier to make what they have now into a game for a console .. thust the reason why the game has been made simple as far as Professions and that and the reasons crafters are no longer needed...no need for a crafter in a FPS..
this is the reason they have done this and have walked over use and do not care if we stay or go . what they will get from the PSP 3 gaming system far outways the players now .. they are thinking short term cause after 6 moths of PSP 3 the game will be far lacking then the other games coming out for PSP 3.. and in the long run SOE/LA will be scratching there heads .. saying """ What did we Do ""
But on the Bright side .. My girlfriend is so happy to have me back ...lol
You can Beat me.. set my ship on Fire .. even kill me .. just Don't Bore Me....
{(RIP)} SWG
In regards to the editorial hindsight is always an amazing thing is it not??.....I admire the stance taken by the author but i think a few specific examples needed to be included to "capture the essence" of the article.
But it brings out the point that what is more important - what gamers want or the companies that make the games want - it should be a 2 way situation whereupon each feeds and nourishes off each other.
Im sure those behind SWG had performed a large amount of testing before they implemented the changes ( I wont argue the stupidity of not doing so) and so leaves the question - Are those upset, really upset at the way in which they can participate in the game or are the changes just overall bad in judgement?? And what do those who are new to the game think??
Food for thought.....
I don't like the changes :
- the game's complexity and the freedom and depth that were coming from this complexity have been greatly reduced.
- the quest-based system is for single player games, I've always thought that thousands of people doing the same quest in the same world is stupid. In the NGE, everyone starts by beeing smuggled out a space station by Han Solo, after having killed a few stormtroopers, and before the space station explodes. How many people will Han Solo have helped ? Doesn't he have other things to do ? How many space stations will have been destroyed ? This does not make sense. The quest game system is not about thousands of players playing together in the same world ; it's about thousand of players playing their own little copy of the world everyone is.
- the new combat system is boring and has several flaws. For example : the smaller you are, the harder it is for your opponent to target you. People who want to compete in PvP will want to have the smallest avatar they can. Instead of everyone in composite armor (pre-CU), the game will become everyone is 1 meter tall.
- the NGE patch was not polished enough. Many bugs and many missing things were still there when it was applied to the live servers. The day of the patch, I was not able to use my armor and my pistols. What do I do ? They could at least have added a conversion system.
- the whole thing is making the game look less polished ; different interface designs (the profession window does not look the same way as the mail window, which does not look the same way as the quest journal, which does not look... etc).
I don't like how they made the community participate. These changes were announced less than 2 weeks before going live. In the previous weeks, they had announced changes about things that have been removed with the NGE. Example : the ranger profession revamp. They have obviously lied and hidden their project, instead of making the community participate.
I admire the fact that they are trying to save the game. But this is too late. They have lacked a vision for 2 years. Lucasarts should restart everything from crap, and make a new game. With other developers if possible, because SOE have not proven their ability to manage this project.
Edit : another thing I hate. In all interviews, the SOE and LA guys are describing the changes as what the community wanted. They are always using the same lame arguments, "the changes are cool and exciting". Maybe they are trying to convince people, by repeating the same speech over and over. There is a huge gap between what they are saying and the reality I'm experiencing.
How many people have left the game so far ? Confirmed cancellations from Naritus galaxy --> see below). You have to consider that these are the forum users only .. maybe 10-20 % of the population of a medium population server. I dont know all of them personally, but its still an impressive list. Seeing so many names of friends on that list makes me want to kick something .. HARD.
Erillion
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
W Naritus W
ZhouYu Hunt Roivas
Jacie Jacie MDBang
Nagoma Enod
Nags Yossarian
zakytatha Xanrag Quaashie
barantos Samstag Dirk
babyfacejr Hagen vonTronje
Clu-fett Riaji Ewathi
Smirfman JOWAL
Penn Zethren
Abcel RASP-X
Tigereyez Idad Terigeg
Borg Kurana
Sthealth Moradin
Madonna Iser Ivod
Karo Meredith
Mallatic Meka
Nap Banshee'
Spitfire Kira
Dy-nod Ossa-bek
Nunzio Jaynaa
Taxyou Thutar Barbossa
Karli T E F O . E E V E A
Nerrad Drenobi Kuato Varro
So'fe -Godzilla-
Cimone Teti
Mr'gan Itet
Kaiszer Ifoll
Tsar Glawk
EAGLE DARKSUN Yge
DECCAL Hoover
ORITAU AVOG Giffie Pop
DORITAU Leelou Dallas
DRORITAU Jaycon Tabef
ORITAU' Swartz Darkwaver
Johnn'y Gabby Sidekick
Cogo Unlikely Hero
Potag Hewo Tagalong
Ewwoh ray-dac manta
Okado raydac
Radditz Ryan Kalell Mesa
Kaltar Glass Jaw
Atala Achillya
Coper DoWei
Artisan Zandramous Bel'lal
Cop Larten Crepsley
Elgermine XxCarlosxX
Talyan Bladde
Blurmf -Dark-
Blurmfette Mokkum
Xariss Nitha
Jacksabib Nayreel
Tul Thams Buzzie
Hawtubb Dizzie
Cell Sa'rin
Aken Bruschi
Liro Fisu
Legi Lehai
Bird Falkrynn Sindar
Irco Hargrimm
Gracey Tyyr
Gothika -Taboo-
Gunbunny Chrysania
ca'lista Iossk
ca'lektra Bianin
elektra Noey
ivosk Mcnoey
jinu Strafe
bleh Darrik
t'rex Falconius
pracs Falconia
tifa Sung'hi
Ezzze lightstrider Proudest
Daho Itheeco Siuan
Sir-Michael Tripping
Sir-Michael's Mistress Ants
Protects Sir-Michael Komer
FistofMight Sparta
BluePaint Falcon Ketsuki
SpitFire Falcon Earit
Samare GentryFalcon Jenie Kvas
Doby Iteew Ericshoo
Mortal Thug Missi Shoo
Cybala LegendryOne
Kaio Altaire Ferrous
Maxie Rail An'geles
Cupi Irossk Novuss
so'kai Thekku Dythmar
Kalana Lightstar Persephone'
Calindra Stormdancer Mumbo
Lrae-Vai Obmum
Uhmfufu Bowen Blackmoor
Hah'Tae Hasmil Blackmoor
Aslag Ocow Naryu Halo
Ales Thraken-Sal Blckmoor
Elas Mor'dred Blackmoor
Kyla Eri Dakota'
Wendi- DeCato ObsidianBlades
Riprock rageXXI
Meirix Sojan Atori
Shovegi Siobahn
Weaponex Weaponex Kellgore Kishemi
Chew-Backer Roc'nar Kishemi
Izzit Alldat Kel'gore Kishemi
Arewa Gerhard Godfrey
Brenn Tantor Drakhur Darkstrider
Sonny Logan Db' Cooper
Szora Dallas Veobaerea
Jasira Raber Shadowhawk
Tallo Rainnee
Kalana Lightstar Sio Blaster
Jesskah Lightstar Adi-Wan Tinova
Jandryen Lightstar Avaki Bechra
FatAlbert Bronta
Jeremiah Lyghtwulff Adnalia
Autumn Crestingdark Krokus
Oged Crestingdark acill -mattimos-crimson'
Miksumoto satine
Druchii sparkling
Reevopit DrkManser
Isvapra Sypo Rewroi
Vekran Zumba Nutface NuNu
Ezu Zumba T'Bonius
Dahliaa Ryylar Blackmun
Ulfynn Ryylar Camalus
Birk Detole PrezII
Ko'atoah Chuter
Blackmun's Alt Nanny
Rabbi Gezzalt
Ravii Baldric
Pinche Charlie-da tuna
Bronta Darkmanxx
Krokus Alleah
Adnalia Tekdog
gepo Lyram
BRONTA Gamborg
Tracy Huru-Bain
Jaisen Dask'Len Jonerain
Batman Lightwalker Ceganus
Ott'o Mortal
Captin- Verago
Jadeen Corrona Heaven
Andrrew Stevens Ogbotwae
Damienson Saint'
Damien- Greatwhitehope Cal
Avernus Tokklyym
Xosto twyst
Mie'la Daalin Moon
Kaola Nilaad
Geale Anchors Taim
Tycalibur bazak Malla
Barogas Iser Ivod
Yuri Vubo Strider
Vick Aelei Strider
Tobar Tapoh
De'Von Beltran Sky'e
Lucid Fox Floyd.
ray-dac manta Jahjette
raydac Jahj
Cryos Merovingian Hong Lo
Danyel Dadew Doogie Howser-MD
SarinTabun Jokka
That was a very good editorial, Dana. I totally agree. Whether or not the new Star Wars Galaxies game is good or bad is irrelevant. That fact that a 2 year old mmorpg was totally changed, with disregard to it's loyal, long-time subscribers, is a crime, in my opinion.
After trying out the changes, things were not made better for me, as I did not like them one bit. So I will be doing what I think a lot of players will be doing. Cancelling my account.
Now I worry for Everquest II and it's future
Agreed - they have. My point was simply that LA has a very good defense when it comes to "shafting" them. They have no responsibility towards them. The same can not be said of long-term subscribers.
The guy disagreed with large portions of my editorial. He made a pretty good argument, it impressed me. There is no need to make personal insults towards him or any other poster.
For the record, I encourage anyone to submit articles to the site who has an opinion. Provided you meet some basic levels of writing - or at least can be edited - and you support your argument, I'll gladly post it.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
His argument was fine (even though I would quibble with some of the conclusions drawn), but it's not an insult to note that he writes long-windedly, that's just an observation on his writing style. It is undeniably wordy, and somewhat obtuse with odd word choices (or wrong ones) and iffy punctuation.
Yes, he has a point to make, and touches on many interesting issues raised by the implenetation of the NGE, but could be more concise and clear about it.
Again, that's just critique, not an insult.