I played SWG since Beta, i was even one of the UK GM's for Everquest and SWG based in London.
The game as it was, was totally mindblowing to begin with. I worked hard leveling up my professions, wasn't interested in Jedi but loved playing a Creature Handler. Imagine my surprise when i first heard about NGE but i thought, hey, i'll give it a shot. well i tried it and apart from the Tutorial, the game is just not worth playing anymore. The classes they implemented, are to my mind, total rubbish. A jedi is a joke now, they removed my class and many other players classes in what they term as to make the experience more-like a true Star Wars adventure.
Well sorry to tell you this SOE and Lucas, you badly misjudged this one, i have many friends who played SWG but we have all moved to World of Warcraft now. You guys really are a joke when it comes to Customer Service and listening to your customers.
I'd just like to say thanks for allowing me to waste a couple of years of my life, for wiping out my character which i loved playing by removing his class.
Originally posted by Teaflax The guy disagreed with large portions of my editorial. He made a pretty good argument, it impressed me. There is no need to make personal insults towards him or any other poster.
His argument was fine (even though I would quibble with some of the conclusions drawn), but it's not an insult to note that he writes long-windedly, that's just an observation on his writing style. It is undeniably wordy, and somewhat obtuse with odd word choices (or wrong ones) and iffy punctuation.
Yes, he has a point to make, and touches on many interesting issues raised by the implenetation of the NGE, but could be more concise and clear about it.
Again, that's just critique, not an insult.
Agreed, I was talking about the "Must be a long winded ego stroker" comment made by another poster.
Anyway, we're far afield of NGE... back at it!!
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
SoE proves yet again that they will do anything in search of the almighty dollar.
I don't know who's making the decisions at SoE but they need to be fired and someone more in touch with thier playerbase need to be brought in. This is just another disastrous decision that has alienated players from SoE. Things like Station Exchange, all the dramatic gameplay changes to EQ2 in an attempt to draw some of the WoW folks, and the NGE(nevermind all the other changes such as Jedi/holocron mess, the first CU, etc.) show that SoE is seriously out of touch with, or worse, they simply don't care about thier players. It seems if SoE thinks they can squeeze another penny out of something, they'll alienate whomever they need to in order to do so.
This will be the second mass exodus from an SoE game this year. Maybe someone at SoE will get the hint.(Station Exchange causing the first one in EQ2, now this even bigger one because of the NGE)
I feel for you SWG vets.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
John Smedley (SOE boss) is now asking for the community to express what they want (see here). But this guy is so smart that he is asking for comments on the official SWG Forums. The forums where you can not post if you have your account has expired. People who have left can not say what they want. So basically, John Smedley is asking the few guys who are still playing the game (which mean these guys are ok with the changes) what they want to change.................
There have been too many great ideas submitted by the community in the past about what we wanted. I don't think I ever saw any of the great ideas actually turned into a game feature. John Smedley, I don't trust you anymore. Even if I could log into the official forums (which I can't do since my account is closed since a few days after NGE), I would not lose my time submitting the ideas I want to see come true in SWG, because for two years you have proved you were not able to listen.
It's too late. Something is broken between you and us. Will you eventually realize that ?
SOE/LUCAS do not care about its pre nge customers, a few reasons why. 1 we paid there bills for years, we made it possible for them to stay alive long enough for the nge. SOE Doesnt care about its customers, I and every other swg vet out there supported a company that hates us. SOE never cared about us, they wanted our money. NOW they want our kids money, the nge was made to get little kids in. SO dad doesnt play swg anymore, but his son loves it,(his son has addhd and can click faster then anyone and is the new GOD of SWG NGE) I for the other hand have semi arthritus and can't click as fast as Johnny boy and so Im shafted by SOE. They change SWG to get rid of the old guys who saw the first swg in the theater for the baby boomers of 2000. I would Like a refund for both my accounts, both played for over a year so thats about $400+ JTL that never got refunded cause I didn't digitaly download it. So SOE/LUCAS write me a check for $500 and Ill call it even, Ill even send you my old SWG game/box considering its not the same game I baught 2 years ago. If not Ill take it skeet shooting. I give SWG NGE a rating of -10 outa 1 through 10 ranking. Mainly cause they shafted every single player who played before NGE. SOE I give you a unknown Salute!! UMMPPFF
As a Veteran Crafter in SWG i know that they ahve created a critical flaw, they have made some very nessary sub components for Architect Items only craftable to the Eneginnering Trader, and not the structures trader, and with the number of traders being few and far between, this gets even harder, the items needed used to fall under the Enginnering Branch of Artisan, where it was a PreReq for the "elite" skills.
My husband and I had a few pre-NGE Jedi toons. We are very unhappy about the fact that people who used to hunt us are now jedi themselves due to respec abilities. Not to mention, the brand new characters who just started and asking about making lightsabers. It took me about 6 month to finish my Jedi template (playing an est of 20-25 hours per week) and only finishing two days prior to the NGE. Needless to say, I got shafted. I do feel like all my efforts were pointless.
My husband's finished template, cl 80 jedi toon converted to NGE system at a whopping CL 1. He got the typical "we thank you for your patience in this matter while we work on resolving this problem" from csr's. A week later and still useless at cl 1, he quit the game. I cant say I blame him, but SOE has really done it this time.
As far as my active guild...nobody is online anymore and it makes me sad to know I have lost some friends but some will stay together via our guild website. We are discussing other MMORPG games to try and bring the guild to as a whole so we dont lose our friendships.
I know posting this message wont mean anything or change anything, but it feels good to vent anyway. Thanks for allowing me to:)
Originally posted by Tamoli My husband and I had a few pre-NGE Jedi toons. We are very unhappy about the fact that people who used to hunt us are now jedi themselves due to respec abilities. Not to mention, the brand new characters who just started and asking about making lightsabers. It took me about 6 month to finish my Jedi template (playing an est of 20-25 hours per week) and only finishing two days prior to the NGE. Needless to say, I got shafted. I do feel like all my efforts were pointless. My husband's finished template, cl 80 jedi toon converted to NGE system at a whopping CL 1. He got the typical "we thank you for your patience in this matter while we work on resolving this problem" from csr's. A week later and still useless at cl 1, he quit the game. I cant say I blame him, but SOE has really done it this time. As far as my active guild...nobody is online anymore and it makes me sad to know I have lost some friends but some will stay together via our guild website. We are discussing other MMORPG games to try and bring the guild to as a whole so we dont lose our friendships. I know posting this message wont mean anything or change anything, but it feels good to vent anyway. Thanks for allowing me to:) Tamilia StarBane, Radiant server
It does mean something, to me and I'm sure to others. I'm sorry for what happened to you, and that's the best thing about the old game was the people. Thanks for venting in a constructive manner, much better to hear a nice story about what was than to hear angry whining.
I do think the new game will be even better once everything gets settled in, but good luck to you and yours in whatever you do.
I am nothing other than a concerned player. I did not write my post to explain to any of you why you should support the NGE, or why you should not support the NGE.
I am merely posting my own reflection, as a consumer and a player of the genre.
To Squidi, I am not arguing that players "shouldnt be open minded and reasonable about change." Perhaps they should. Ultimately, it is not the playing publics burden to be "open minded and reasonable about change." To me, that is the MMOG providers burden.
It is a burden that I fear MMOG providers are not taking seriously. From my perspective, they feel the same way as your statement:
"Anybody who puts the player's wants first are obviously missing the big picture - and yes, players want to be unreasonable."
When I read this statement, it just reaffirmed to me that the MMOG industry is talking in a language that is alien to many in the playing public. Because the average player is not concerned with the "big picture," if that big picture only promises them more uncertainty in their purchases, and more instability in the products.
The players MMOG companies want and need are not interested in game design theory, and MMOG development practices. They do not want to hear stories about a game changing in response to "the next new thing." What the average player wants and needs is stability in an inherently unstable genre.
The fact of the matter is that the playing public doesnt need MMOGs. Many see no logic in paying for a box price, fees, and expansions for something that can be rendered worthless at the whim of the accountant.
We tend to forget that this genre is not altogether accepted as fully "legit," and the worst in this regard seem to be the MMOG providers themselves.
The MMOG companies have made great strides in the last five years to reassure the playing public that they do not offer fly-by-night products that "cut and run" after they make quick money. They need to continue this trend, not abandon it. If they do not, or cannot, I do not see how they will be able to get the sort of mass appeal in these games that MMOG companies want and need.
The player already makes a great "leap of faith" when they get an MMOG, and its a leap of faith he or she does not have to make with other forms of entertainment. I do not feel that the developers prerogative to change the game at will makes this "leap of faith" any more comfortable for the player. If anything, episodes like the NGE gives the playing public one more reason to pass by the MMOG section of the game store altogether, to a game that they can research, demo, own, and enjoy for as long as they possess the disks.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC Originally posted by LepidusOriginally posted by Einherjar_LCSoE proves yet again that they will do anything in search of the almighty dollar.Once again, I need to remind everyone that LucasArts developed, handles and maintaines Star Wars Galaxies. SOE publishes it. Dana, with all due respect, John Smedley would not address the playerbase if SoE was nothing more than a publisher.
SoE is obviously more involved than that.
It is not the typical "publisher" relationship, because typically they throw boxes out the door and collect. In this case, they have an active interest in the continued health of the game and SWG is a major part of their portfolio (Station). It would be nieve to say that SOE was not consulted about these changes, but given the power of licences and their holders (in this case LucasArts), I'd wager the final decision rests firmly with LucasArts.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Russian, I think the fact that jedi as starting profession was listed as a con was because of the fact that most vet jedi are extremely upset. New characters are now GIVEN jedi characters, when so many others have worked very hard on reaching that "elite" level. Prior to NGE, people were congratulated when they became Jedi...it was a HUGE accomplishment. Now jedi are a dime a dozen and everyone else's hard work is useless.
I feel the review was right on the money. They placed in on the pro side for the new players who want to be jedi without all the work involved. They placed it on the con side for those who did the work for nothing.
One: This is not a reply to the poster immediately above me; it's a separate "thought bubble", so anyone looking for a connection is out of luck.
Two: I played SWG for about a year, maybe a year and a half, from shortly after launch. At first, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. I ran a Zabrak TKA/Ranger/Medic on Shadowfire and had an absolute blast. Things only got better when I made some friends that I could go hunt and RP with. Great fun. Buggy? Sure. But we got by--hell, the "Jedi Butt Slide" was plenty humorous. The fact that I could pick and choose which skills/professions to advance at will was a powerful concept. With Teras Kasi, I could fight what I chose...Ranger allowed me to sneak past what I chose against fighting...and Medic put me back together again when Ranger failed. Eventually, I got tired of the endless grind and quit. I came back for a little while shortly after JtL launched and greatly enjoyed the space combat. When I discovered that one was required to grind ground content in order to advance as a Pilot , I quit again, this time for good. There were other, better things on the horizon...and while I missed SWG, I firmly looked ahead and moved on.
Now we have the NGE. My initial reaction was , but I sat down and read all the stuff on the forums, SWG and here. Didn't look good. But...I withheld judgment (that SOE rep they "interviewed" would be so proud of me) and downloaded the free 10-day trial to see for myself. Just for S&G, I tried a Jedi. I figured, what the hell, never got to try one before, and EVERYBODY'S gonna want one now, so why not? The initial little bit of the game was fun. Seeing Han and Chewie, R2 & C3PO, well...that was pointlessly cheesy. Tell me again why these people (Droids are people too! ) are bothering to crack ME out of an Imperial starbase?? The initial quests on the space station clearly delineated a serious problem--Ye Olde No Collision Detection. Clicky on the mob--EEP! That's not ONE mob--it's FOUR!!! Hmmm, that guy's all alone, I can take him--EEP! There's 2 other dudes sitting INSIDE THAT HYPERDRIVE!!! I recalled reading from the forums that the answer to continued survival was to keep moving...so I moved. And promptly lost my target. Unfortunately, they didn't lose me--well, technically, they did--to the cloning chamber. I began remembering why I started playing MMO's and RPG's instead of, say, Halo. And quit the game, and removed it from my HD.
My conclusion, after roughly 2 hours of play, is that this NGE has little to nothing to do with the SWG I used to play. And this is not a good thing. At all.
Three: It simply amazes me how galvanized people have become as a result of these changes. I see lots of posts, both here and on the SWG forums--it's even made mention on the CoH forums, where I spend most of my time--but the posters here are, by and large, new. I see lots of initial posts, maybe 2nd or 3rd posts. (This number includes me, btw.) Generally speaking, roughly 10% of a MMO's population actually reads the forums.* To see so many people urged to action--to take the trouble of creating a forum identity and post their thoughts on a matter--is inspiring. SOE/LucasArts needs to sit up and take note. I seriously doubt they will.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 To Squidi, I am not arguing that players "shouldnt be open minded and reasonable about change." Perhaps they should. Ultimately, it is not the playing publics burden to be "open minded and reasonable about change." To me, that is the MMOG providers burden.
It is everybody's responsibility to meet new ideas with open minded reason - and I'm not just talking MMORPGs. It's the burden of the MMOG dev to not inflict unreasonable change for poor reasons, but I do not think that is what happened here. SWG would not live to see another birthday in its current state. Change or death - I choose change. That's not unreasonable. Neither is taking inspiration from the most popular MMORPG in the world. What is unreasonable are the expectations of the players, who want things that are either not possible or not good design... they don't just want. They demand. They riot. They bitch. They terrorize the developers and other players who don't agree with them. That is NOT the doings of the developers or even remotely based on the changes made during the NGE. Reducing the number of professions down to 9 did not suddenly turn the SWG playerbase into a bunch of assholes.
What the average player wants and needs is stability in an inherently unstable genre.
What the player wants is stability. What they need is change. Would you pay $15 a month for three years for a game that doesn't change? Would you play a game for seven years once you've maxed out your character's level and equipment? Stability just prevents them from being jerks. Change prevents them from leaving. But the types of change that players will accept are minor and typically imbalancing. Would you accept your class being nerfed because it was too powerful? Will such a change make the game more enjoyable for everybody else? That's what's going on with the NGE. It's a BIG change, but one which will ultimately make the game better for everybody at the cost of unavoidably pissing off a few people now. But like I said, if the choice is between change or death, then those dickheads can get their panties in a bunch and take one for the team.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Lets get a few things straight. I am nothing other than a concerned player. I did not write my post to explain to any of you why you should support the NGE, or why you should not support the NGE. I am merely posting my own reflection, as a consumer and a player of the genre. To Squidi, I am not arguing that players "shouldnt be open minded and reasonable about change." Perhaps they should. Ultimately, it is not the playing publics burden to be "open minded and reasonable about change." To me, that is the MMOG providers burden. It is a burden that I fear MMOG providers are not taking seriously. From my perspective, they feel the same way as your statement: "Anybody who puts the player's wants first are obviously missing the big picture - and yes, players want to be unreasonable." When I read this statement, it just reaffirmed to me that the MMOG industry is talking in a language that is alien to many in the playing public. Because the average player is not concerned with the "big picture," if that big picture only promises them more uncertainty in their purchases, and more instability in the products. The players MMOG companies want and need are not interested in game design theory, and MMOG development practices. They do not want to hear stories about a game changing in response to "the next new thing." What the average player wants and needs is stability in an inherently unstable genre. The fact of the matter is that the playing public doesnt need MMOGs. Many see no logic in paying for a box price, fees, and expansions for something that can be rendered worthless at the whim of the accountant. We tend to forget that this genre is not altogether accepted as fully "legit," and the worst in this regard seem to be the MMOG providers themselves. The MMOG companies have made great strides in the last five years to reassure the playing public that they do not offer fly-by-night products that "cut and run" after they make quick money. They need to continue this trend, not abandon it. If they do not, or cannot, I do not see how they will be able to get the sort of mass appeal in these games that MMOG companies want and need. The player already makes a great "leap of faith" when they get an MMOG, and its a leap of faith he or she does not have to make with other forms of entertainment. I do not feel that the developers prerogative to change the game at will makes this "leap of faith" any more comfortable for the player. If anything, episodes like the NGE gives the playing public one more reason to pass by the MMOG section of the game store altogether, to a game that they can research, demo, own, and enjoy for as long as they possess the disks.
Wow that probly one of the best thought out posts I have read in a long time and basicly what you said is for the most part right on target.
So here's a comment from the reviewer "[SOE] ha[s] one of the worse customer services in the mmorpg world"
Then he/she rates the game in 1-10 form.
Customer service: 6 Fun: 5 RP: 5 Value: 5...
Ok i am no Rocket Scientist (even though i have applied to be one... but i digress) But by comparison this means that These three areas (which happen to be the three most important IMO) are worse than "One of the worst customer services in the mmorpg world"
I have played Star Wars: Galaxies for 782 days according to the /getvet command. I have purchased all of the expansions out to date. I was considering creating a second account. As of 11-17-05 my account is cancelled. The New Game, also known as the Starter Kit, is the third version of SWG and it is riddled with bugs and incomplete. It is a far inferior product to its previous versions as well. The NG was released after being kept secret for an unknown period of time and allowing players only a two week notice of it being published. Even less time was devoted to it being tested by sources outside of SOE. Trials of Obi Wan and the NG were released in such a manner as to call into question SOE's and LA's ethics. As represented by the employees who post to the forums SOE and LA are uncarring, glib, and/or vastly out of touch with the player community.
Most of these are not new complaints. However, with the release of the NG these problems have escalted to such a degree that the game is no longer playable. While some are content to merely switch games I am not. Simply changing the direction of the flow of money to SOE and LA will not get their attention. I am boycotting all products created by Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts. I encourage others to do the same.
I do not think my actions alone with effect SOE or LA one iota. In fact, I doubt anything will change their policies. The fan base for Star Wars and other properties is sufficiently numerous to mitigate any discontent portion. While some have predicted that the NG will cause the collapse of SWG I believe otherwise. It will lose many current players but those will be replaced by SOE's and LA's new target market. SOE and LA will later use the negative comments and future subscriptions numbers to prove that they were right all along and to dismiss anyone who opposes them as being knee jerk reactionaries who are against change just because they don't like change. Because most likely the next expansion will also bring a new version of SWG as SOE and LA attempt to copy whichever game is doing better then.
Since everyone is posting negatively, I will interject some positives. Obviously, for some reason everyone has quit, and that is fine, you play for your own reasons. I on the other hand, had decided to stick this out just a little longer. I'll tell you why: my current PA has maintained its active membership through the change so far and I am still having fun playing with my friends regardless of what I think of the interface, combat, crafting, etc. Yes we have lost people, but we have also gained about as many as we lost. Typically we have between 3-10 people on at nearly any time during the day and evening (8am to about 1 am) which, considering circumstances, is pretty good. Our actively playing membership is only down a few ppl from CU times, but is significantly down from a year ago.
So what is my point? Well, it is that some people are still playing and having fun regardless of the doomsayers that populate the boards here and at the official forums. By no means am I saying that all is well, merely that those who believe this game is done within a couple months are mistaken and probably a little bitter over the whole change.
To the folks who say nobody is on, well I say you are not looking in the right places. I will say this though, if you don't have friends already in game and playing, it is NO fun after CL30ish. And that is no joke, it is horrible for anyone new or in a disintigrating PA.
Originally posted by daeandor I on the other hand, had decided to stick this out just a little longer. I'll tell you why: my current PA has maintained its active membership through the change so far and I am still having fun playing with my friends regardless of what I think of the interface, combat, crafting, etc.
When people are keeping on playing a MMO just because of the people, when they don't like the interface, combat, crafting, etc., I think there IS a problem. You might as well use MSN messenger (0$ to get it, 0$ subscription) if the only remaining purpose of the game was to keep in touch with online friends.
Originally posted by molecule Hey Rob,Not to be picky, but adieu is the French work for "goodbye." The word you're looking for is ado. As in "Without further ado..."I could care less about grammar in a forum post, but since this is an editorial on one of the biggest MMO sites on the web...Well okay, I guess I'm being picky. So sue me. =P
lol thanks...i didnt know that.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
I played SWG since Beta, i was even one of the UK GM's for Everquest and SWG based in London.
The game as it was, was totally mindblowing to begin with. I worked hard leveling up my professions, wasn't interested in Jedi but loved playing a Creature Handler. Imagine my surprise when i first heard about NGE but i thought, hey, i'll give it a shot. well i tried it and apart from the Tutorial, the game is just not worth playing anymore. The classes they implemented, are to my mind, total rubbish. A jedi is a joke now, they removed my class and many other players classes in what they term as to make the experience more-like a true Star Wars adventure.
Well sorry to tell you this SOE and Lucas, you badly misjudged this one, i have many friends who played SWG but we have all moved to World of Warcraft now. You guys really are a joke when it comes to Customer Service and listening to your customers.
I'd just like to say thanks for allowing me to waste a couple of years of my life, for wiping out my character which i loved playing by removing his class.
His argument was fine (even though I would quibble with some of the conclusions drawn), but it's not an insult to note that he writes long-windedly, that's just an observation on his writing style. It is undeniably wordy, and somewhat obtuse with odd word choices (or wrong ones) and iffy punctuation.
Yes, he has a point to make, and touches on many interesting issues raised by the implenetation of the NGE, but could be more concise and clear about it.
Again, that's just critique, not an insult.
Agreed, I was talking about the "Must be a long winded ego stroker" comment made by another poster.
Anyway, we're far afield of NGE... back at it!!
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I'm a pre-cu Jedi, and I have all means to blame SOE for making Jedi a starting profession, but I will blame them for something else ...
... they removed the item-decay system and made crafting professions redundant.
The most unique aspect of SWG was its crafting system and its player driven economy - this is gone now
Cheers, Antoan
PS: We Jedis are not mindless mouse-clicking killers! Most of us are core community members who understand various game aspects.
SoE proves yet again that they will do anything in search of the almighty dollar.
I don't know who's making the decisions at SoE but they need to be fired and someone more in touch with thier playerbase need to be brought in. This is just another disastrous decision that has alienated players from SoE. Things like Station Exchange, all the dramatic gameplay changes to EQ2 in an attempt to draw some of the WoW folks, and the NGE(nevermind all the other changes such as Jedi/holocron mess, the first CU, etc.) show that SoE is seriously out of touch with, or worse, they simply don't care about thier players. It seems if SoE thinks they can squeeze another penny out of something, they'll alienate whomever they need to in order to do so.
This will be the second mass exodus from an SoE game this year. Maybe someone at SoE will get the hint.(Station Exchange causing the first one in EQ2, now this even bigger one because of the NGE)
I feel for you SWG vets.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Once again, I need to remind everyone that LucasArts developed, handles and maintaines Star Wars Galaxies. SOE publishes it.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
John Smedley (SOE boss) is now asking for the community to express what they want (see here). But this guy is so smart that he is asking for comments on the official SWG Forums. The forums where you can not post if you have your account has expired. People who have left can not say what they want. So basically, John Smedley is asking the few guys who are still playing the game (which mean these guys are ok with the changes) what they want to change.................
There have been too many great ideas submitted by the community in the past about what we wanted. I don't think I ever saw any of the great ideas actually turned into a game feature. John Smedley, I don't trust you anymore. Even if I could log into the official forums (which I can't do since my account is closed since a few days after NGE), I would not lose my time submitting the ideas I want to see come true in SWG, because for two years you have proved you were not able to listen.
It's too late. Something is broken between you and us. Will you eventually realize that ?
DrainoBlast!
Hey Rob,
Not to be picky, but adieu is the French work for "goodbye." The word you're looking for is ado. As in "Without further ado..."
I could care less about grammar in a forum post, but since this is an editorial on one of the biggest MMO sites on the web...
Well okay, I guess I'm being picky. So sue me. =P
My husband and I had a few pre-NGE Jedi toons. We are very unhappy about the fact that people who used to hunt us are now jedi themselves due to respec abilities. Not to mention, the brand new characters who just started and asking about making lightsabers. It took me about 6 month to finish my Jedi template (playing an est of 20-25 hours per week) and only finishing two days prior to the NGE. Needless to say, I got shafted. I do feel like all my efforts were pointless
.
My husband's finished template, cl 80 jedi toon converted to NGE system at a whopping CL 1. He got the typical "we thank you for your patience in this matter while we work on resolving this problem" from csr's. A week later and still useless at cl 1, he quit the game. I cant say I blame him, but SOE has really done it this time.
As far as my active guild...nobody is online anymore and it makes me sad to know I have lost some friends but some will stay together via our guild website. We are discussing other MMORPG games to try and bring the guild to as a whole so we dont lose our friendships.
I know posting this message wont mean anything or change anything, but it feels good to vent anyway. Thanks for allowing me to:)
Tamilia StarBane, Radiant server
It does mean something, to me and I'm sure to others. I'm sorry for what happened to you, and that's the best thing about the old game was the people. Thanks for venting in a constructive manner, much better to hear a nice story about what was than to hear angry whining.
I do think the new game will be even better once everything gets settled in, but good luck to you and yours in whatever you do.
Lets get a few things straight.
I am nothing other than a concerned player. I did not write my post to explain to any of you why you should support the NGE, or why you should not support the NGE.
I am merely posting my own reflection, as a consumer and a player of the genre.
To Squidi, I am not arguing that players "shouldnt be open minded and reasonable about change." Perhaps they should. Ultimately, it is not the playing publics burden to be "open minded and reasonable about change." To me, that is the MMOG providers burden.
It is a burden that I fear MMOG providers are not taking seriously. From my perspective, they feel the same way as your statement:
"Anybody who puts the player's wants first are obviously missing the big picture - and yes, players want to be unreasonable."
When I read this statement, it just reaffirmed to me that the MMOG industry is talking in a language that is alien to many in the playing public. Because the average player is not concerned with the "big picture," if that big picture only promises them more uncertainty in their purchases, and more instability in the products.
The players MMOG companies want and need are not interested in game design theory, and MMOG development practices. They do not want to hear stories about a game changing in response to "the next new thing." What the average player wants and needs is stability in an inherently unstable genre.
The fact of the matter is that the playing public doesnt need MMOGs. Many see no logic in paying for a box price, fees, and expansions for something that can be rendered worthless at the whim of the accountant.
We tend to forget that this genre is not altogether accepted as fully "legit," and the worst in this regard seem to be the MMOG providers themselves.
The MMOG companies have made great strides in the last five years to reassure the playing public that they do not offer fly-by-night products that "cut and run" after they make quick money. They need to continue this trend, not abandon it. If they do not, or cannot, I do not see how they will be able to get the sort of mass appeal in these games that MMOG companies want and need.
The player already makes a great "leap of faith" when they get an MMOG, and its a leap of faith he or she does not have to make with other forms of entertainment. I do not feel that the developers prerogative to change the game at will makes this "leap of faith" any more comfortable for the player. If anything, episodes like the NGE gives the playing public one more reason to pass by the MMOG section of the game store altogether, to a game that they can research, demo, own, and enjoy for as long as they possess the disks.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Once again, I need to remind everyone that LucasArts developed, handles and maintaines Star Wars Galaxies. SOE publishes it.
Dana, with all due respect, John Smedley would not address the playerbase if SoE was nothing more than a publisher.
SoE is obviously more involved than that.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
It is not the typical "publisher" relationship, because typically they throw boxes out the door and collect. In this case, they have an active interest in the continued health of the game and SWG is a major part of their portfolio (Station). It would be nieve to say that SOE was not consulted about these changes, but given the power of licences and their holders (in this case LucasArts), I'd wager the final decision rests firmly with LucasArts.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Russian, I think the fact that jedi as starting profession was listed as a con was because of the fact that most vet jedi are extremely upset. New characters are now GIVEN jedi characters, when so many others have worked very hard on reaching that "elite" level. Prior to NGE, people were congratulated when they became Jedi...it was a HUGE accomplishment. Now jedi are a dime a dozen and everyone else's hard work is useless.
I feel the review was right on the money. They placed in on the pro side for the new players who want to be jedi without all the work involved. They placed it on the con side for those who did the work for nothing.
Cross-Post from another forum:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/58350/setstart/1/loadclass/35
Thanks!
Two items (okay, three):
One: This is not a reply to the poster immediately above me; it's a separate "thought bubble", so anyone looking for a connection is out of luck.
Two: I played SWG for about a year, maybe a year and a half, from shortly after launch. At first, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. I ran a Zabrak TKA/Ranger/Medic on Shadowfire and had an absolute blast. Things only got better when I made some friends that I could go hunt and RP with. Great fun. Buggy? Sure. But we got by--hell, the "Jedi Butt Slide" was plenty humorous. The fact that I could pick and choose which skills/professions to advance at will was a powerful concept. With Teras Kasi, I could fight what I chose...Ranger allowed me to sneak past what I chose against fighting...and Medic put me back together again when Ranger failed.
Eventually, I got tired of the endless grind and quit. I came back for a little while shortly after JtL launched and greatly enjoyed the space combat. When I discovered that one was required to grind ground content in order to advance as a Pilot 
, I quit again, this time for good. There were other, better things on the horizon...and while I missed SWG, I firmly looked ahead and moved on.
Now we have the NGE. My initial reaction was
, but I sat down and read all the stuff on the forums, SWG and here. Didn't look good. But...I withheld judgment (that SOE rep they "interviewed" would be so proud of me) and downloaded the free 10-day trial to see for myself. Just for S&G, I tried a Jedi. I figured, what the hell, never got to try one before, and EVERYBODY'S gonna want one now, so why not? The initial little bit of the game was fun. Seeing Han and Chewie, R2 & C3PO, well...that was pointlessly cheesy. Tell me again why these people (Droids are people too! 
) are bothering to crack ME out of an Imperial starbase?? The initial quests on the space station clearly delineated a serious problem--Ye Olde No Collision Detection. Clicky on the mob--EEP! That's not ONE mob--it's FOUR!!! Hmmm, that guy's all alone, I can take him--EEP! There's 2 other dudes sitting INSIDE THAT HYPERDRIVE!!! 
I recalled reading from the forums that the answer to continued survival was to keep moving...so I moved. And promptly lost my target. Unfortunately, they didn't lose me--well, technically, they did--to the cloning chamber. I began remembering why I started playing MMO's and RPG's instead of, say, Halo. And quit the game, and removed it from my HD.
My conclusion, after roughly 2 hours of play, is that this NGE has little to nothing to do with the SWG I used to play. And this is not a good thing. At all.
Three: It simply amazes me how galvanized people have become as a result of these changes. I see lots of posts, both here and on the SWG forums--it's even made mention on the CoH forums, where I spend most of my time--but the posters here are, by and large, new. I see lots of initial posts, maybe 2nd or 3rd posts. (This number includes me, btw.) Generally speaking, roughly 10% of a MMO's population actually reads the forums.* To see so many people urged to action--to take the trouble of creating a forum identity and post their thoughts on a matter--is inspiring. SOE/LucasArts needs to sit up and take note. I seriously doubt they will.
* 37% of all statistics are made up.
So here's a comment from the reviewer "[SOE] ha[s] one of the worse customer services in the mmorpg world"
Then he/she rates the game in 1-10 form.
Customer service: 6
Fun: 5
RP: 5
Value: 5...
Ok i am no Rocket Scientist (even though i have applied to be one... but i digress) But by comparison this means that These three areas (which happen to be the three most important IMO) are worse than "One of the worst customer services in the mmorpg world"
In conclusion: It Sucks!
I have played Star Wars: Galaxies for 782 days according to the /getvet command. I have purchased all of the expansions out to date. I was considering creating a second account. As of 11-17-05 my account is cancelled. The New Game, also known as the Starter Kit, is the third version of SWG and it is riddled with bugs and incomplete. It is a far inferior product to its previous versions as well. The NG was released after being kept secret for an unknown period of time and allowing players only a two week notice of it being published. Even less time was devoted to it being tested by sources outside of SOE. Trials of Obi Wan and the NG were released in such a manner as to call into question SOE's and LA's ethics. As represented by the employees who post to the forums SOE and LA are uncarring, glib, and/or vastly out of touch with the player community.
Most of these are not new complaints. However, with the release of the NG these problems have escalted to such a degree that the game is no longer playable. While some are content to merely switch games I am not. Simply changing the direction of the flow of money to SOE and LA will not get their attention. I am boycotting all products created by Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts. I encourage others to do the same.
I do not think my actions alone with effect SOE or LA one iota. In fact, I doubt anything will change their policies. The fan base for Star Wars and other properties is sufficiently numerous to mitigate any discontent portion. While some have predicted that the NG will cause the collapse of SWG I believe otherwise. It will lose many current players but those will be replaced by SOE's and LA's new target market. SOE and LA will later use the negative comments and future subscriptions numbers to prove that they were right all along and to dismiss anyone who opposes them as being knee jerk reactionaries who are against change just because they don't like change. Because most likely the next expansion will also bring a new version of SWG as SOE and LA attempt to copy whichever game is doing better then.
Since everyone is posting negatively, I will interject some positives. Obviously, for some reason everyone has quit, and that is fine, you play for your own reasons. I on the other hand, had decided to stick this out just a little longer. I'll tell you why: my current PA has maintained its active membership through the change so far and I am still having fun playing with my friends regardless of what I think of the interface, combat, crafting, etc. Yes we have lost people, but we have also gained about as many as we lost. Typically we have between 3-10 people on at nearly any time during the day and evening (8am to about 1 am) which, considering circumstances, is pretty good. Our actively playing membership is only down a few ppl from CU times, but is significantly down from a year ago.
So what is my point? Well, it is that some people are still playing and having fun regardless of the doomsayers that populate the boards here and at the official forums. By no means am I saying that all is well, merely that those who believe this game is done within a couple months are mistaken and probably a little bitter over the whole change.
To the folks who say nobody is on, well I say you are not looking in the right places. I will say this though, if you don't have friends already in game and playing, it is NO fun after CL30ish. And that is no joke, it is horrible for anyone new or in a disintigrating PA.
You might as well use MSN messenger (0$ to get it, 0$ subscription) if the only remaining purpose of the game was to keep in touch with online friends.
lol thanks...i didnt know that.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.