So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,
How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?
I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.
They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.
Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.
It was also claimed that SWTOR would redefine the MMO genre forever, whether it failed or succeeded. Because it was Star Wars, and Bioware! And it had voice acting and personal, branching storylines! There was no way it couldn't be genre-changing!
John Smedley claimed it was the last major MMO that would ever launch with a sub-model (he was wrong, too).
People should go back and read some of the hype this game had. It was beyond ridiculous. The only game whose hype could rival it in recent memory is GW2 - that game had some hysterical hype around it, too... which it also failed to live up to.
What's really funny, though, Sevenstar, is that back during beta and overall pre-release of SWTOR, if you'd suggested that it wouldn't surpass WoW, nor any of the other things it was predicted would happen, but that it would find its own dedicated playerbase and would do fine overall, you were called a hater and a troll and told to go away. I would know. I was one of the ones trying to put a more grounded perspective on it.
Funny how you don't hear that anymore, now that reality entered the picture and proved all those "haters and trolls" right.
Lineage 1 and 2 as well as RIFT and AION are much much much bigger than SWTOR in terms of accounts and subs. I even think TERA has more lol. Hell UO has 500k right now.
Aion and Lineage 2 are both "truly free" (as NC puts it), and are 100% cash shop driven. They haven't had subs in months now.
Not sure about L1 since its service was discontinued in the Western market.
Rift, I'm not sure of population wise. I don't recall Rift having over 500k subs, though.
So.... yeah... Hate to say it (esp. as I *loved* Lineage 2 when it was a fully sub-based MMO), but your info is very off.
Your info is off, those games are still sub based in the east. They only made them free over here because they were going to die if they did not.
Lineage 1 and 2 as well as RIFT and AION are much much much bigger than SWTOR in terms of accounts and subs. I even think TERA has more lol. Hell UO has 500k right now.
Aion and Lineage 2 are both "truly free" (as NC puts it), and are 100% cash shop driven. They haven't had subs in months now.
Not sure about L1 since its service was discontinued in the Western market.
Rift, I'm not sure of population wise. I don't recall Rift having over 500k subs, though.
So.... yeah... Hate to say it (esp. as I *loved* Lineage 2 when it was a fully sub-based MMO), but your info is very off.
Your info is off, those games are still sub based in the east. They only made them free over here because they were going to die if they did not.
And what is sub in the East??? We all know that WoW subs are a bit different in the east than in West?
Originally posted by RefMinor Originally posted by VastoHordeOriginally posted by RefMinorOriginally posted by VastoHorde Eve Online does not have close to 500K subs.
Eve is ahead in world wide subscribers. Eve is not ahead in total players, and it's unlikely to be ahead in revenue generation. It might be ahead in profitability, but that would require some access to the financials of the games and how the businesses around the games are run.
Is there really anything else that can be said about Eve and SWToR's subscribers?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Then its not #2 behind WoW. I was talking about western subs because I know it did not have over 500K over here. If we are talking about World Wide sub then games like Aion, Blade and Soul, Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 have subs in the millions. 500K world wide is nonthing.
It is still ahead of SWTOR.
Or you could say......
SWTOR is one of the most popular mmo's, close to EVE in subscribers and well over a million F2P accounts. Most mmo's would kill for that success.
Y'know, if you want to look at the glass as half full. I do believe the other half is beyond empty.
Then its not #2 behind WoW. I was talking about western subs because I know it did not have over 500K over here. If we are talking about World Wide sub then games like Aion, Blade and Soul, Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 have subs in the millions. 500K world wide is nonthing.
It is still ahead of SWTOR.
Eve is ahead in world wide subscribers. Eve is not ahead in total players, and it's unlikely to be ahead in revenue generation. It might be ahead in profitability, but that would require some access to the financials of the games and how the businesses around the games are run.
Is there really anything else that can be said about Eve and SWToR's subscribers?
Lizard if you use that logic the TOR naysayers will only use it to undermine EA's numbers.... hey what a minute... let me think.... they're already doing it I'm such a dumbass.. Whats good for the goose and all that.
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harharhar L1 and 2, AION and TERA are all still huge in Korea. Not to mention they still are running over here in the western market (Except L1). RIFT had just under a million subs last I checked what a year ago? And they just launched storm legion which did pretty well itself . As for UO a study came out in 2012 stating that there were a total of 495k players that had logged in in the last 30 days (November I believe it was taken) that were unguilded players. That is the last concurent data on the game so it is all we have to go by.
Yeah, you are so off its hilarious.
Rift peaked its first month around 600k and was around 250k by the time the year ended. Most likely its somewhere around 175-200k these days
L2, TERA and AION at their western peaks wouldnt total 500k if added together. Brining up their success in the east is silly because the two markets are so enormously different.
UO peaked at 250k subs
Indeed! How dare anyone imply that 500k Asians paying to playing a game is somehow equivalent to 500k Americans! Oh the indignity!
Lineage 1 and 2 as well as RIFT and AION are much much much bigger than SWTOR in terms of accounts and subs. I even think TERA has more lol. Hell UO has 500k right now.
Aion and Lineage 2 are both "truly free" (as NC puts it), and are 100% cash shop driven. They haven't had subs in months now.
Not sure about L1 since its service was discontinued in the Western market.
Rift, I'm not sure of population wise. I don't recall Rift having over 500k subs, though.
So.... yeah... Hate to say it (esp. as I *loved* Lineage 2 when it was a fully sub-based MMO), but your info is very off.
Your info is off, those games are still sub based in the east. They only made them free over here because they were going to die if they did not.
Well then Vunak's claims are incomplete (and still not properly supported regardless), either. He's listing decidedly Korean/Eastern games right in the same breath as decidedly Western games, making no distinction between which version he's referring to. If he's referring to a specific region, then he should have indicated that, no?
It wouldn't be far-fetched to assume he's referring to the Western version of the games, and not the Eastern one.
Lineage 1 and 2 as well as RIFT and AION are much much much bigger than SWTOR in terms of accounts and subs. I even think TERA has more lol. Hell UO has 500k right now.
Aion and Lineage 2 are both "truly free" (as NC puts it), and are 100% cash shop driven. They haven't had subs in months now.
Not sure about L1 since its service was discontinued in the Western market.
Rift, I'm not sure of population wise. I don't recall Rift having over 500k subs, though.
So.... yeah... Hate to say it (esp. as I *loved* Lineage 2 when it was a fully sub-based MMO), but your info is very off.
Your info is off, those games are still sub based in the east. They only made them free over here because they were going to die if they did not.
Well then Vunak's claims are incomplete (and still not properly supported regardless), either. He's listing decidedly Korean/Eastern games right in the same breath as decidedly Western games, making no distinction between which version he's referring to. If he's referring to a specific region, then he should have indicated that, no?
It wouldn't be far-fetched to assume he's referring to the Western version of the games, and not the Eastern one.
Nah! its better assume he was pulling numbers out of his backside than to give anything he wrote credence.
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I've read those interview statements. Twice. I even, a third-time, put it in Word to do a search for the term Star Wars. The only thing said about SWTOR is reproduced below:
Second, extra content and free-to-play contributed $224 million, up 45%, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, and solid results from Star Wars: The Old Republic and Bejeweled Blitz. This revenue relates to businesses on PC or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content -- including virtual characters, virtual goods and map packs associated with console, browser-based games or MMO’s. Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every six weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
There is no claim to subscription numbers.
There is no claim that subscriptions are up.
The only claim is 'active users' (a non-defined term) are up.
So I'd like to know where you pulled those numbers. Especially in light in that I've seen those (and similar to them) UNSOURCED NUMBERS thrown about for the LAST YEAR. AND 500K subs and 1.7 million F2P would necessitate EA reactivating a substantial number of the 200+ servers (for just North America, never mind the 100+ European servers) they shut down to get the same server load they had 14-months ago.
I mean, can we THINK about it before we believe things like ths? 2.2 MILLION people are playing on FOUR PERCENT (8/214) of the servers 1.7 million were playing on? How does anyone fall for these unsourced and unbelievable numbers? They don't pass even the most optimistic sniff-test.
Lineage 1 and 2 as well as RIFT and AION are much much much bigger than SWTOR in terms of accounts and subs. I even think TERA has more lol. Hell UO has 500k right now.
Aion and Lineage 2 are both "truly free" (as NC puts it), and are 100% cash shop driven. They haven't had subs in months now.
Not sure about L1 since its service was discontinued in the Western market.
Rift, I'm not sure of population wise. I don't recall Rift having over 500k subs, though.
So.... yeah... Hate to say it (esp. as I *loved* Lineage 2 when it was a fully sub-based MMO), but your info is very off.
Your info is off, those games are still sub based in the east. They only made them free over here because they were going to die if they did not.
Well then Vunak's claims are incomplete (and still not properly supported regardless), either. He's listing decidedly Korean/Eastern games right in the same breath as decidedly Western games, making no distinction between which version he's referring to. If he's referring to a specific region, then he should have indicated that, no?
It wouldn't be far-fetched to assume he's referring to the Western version of the games, and not the Eastern one.
Once you can prove EA didnt count any of their subs outside of "west" borders you might have a point.
SWTOR is released worldwide and has worldwide audience. No restrictions. Even has "Oceanic" servers. Is that far enough east or do you still count those as west also? Some arbitrary border you made to suit your point?
I've read those interview statements. Twice. I even, a third-time, put it in Word to do a search for the term Star Wars. The only thing said about SWTOR is reproduced below:
Second, extra content and free-to-play contributed $224 million, up 45%, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, and solid results from Star Wars: The Old Republic and Bejeweled Blitz. This revenue relates to businesses on PC or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content -- including virtual characters, virtual goods and map packs associated with console, browser-based games or MMO’s. Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every six weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
There is no claim to subscription numbers.
There is no claim that subscriptions are up.
The only claim is 'active users' (a non-defined term) are up.
So I'd like to know where you pulled those numbers. Especially in light in that I've seen those (and similar to them) UNSOURCED NUMBERS thrown about for the LAST YEAR. AND 500K subs and 1.7 million F2P would necessitate EA reactivating a substantial number of the 200+ servers (for just North America, never mind the 100+ European servers) they shut down to get the same server load they had 14-months ago.
I mean, can we THINK about it before we believe things like ths? 2.2 MILLION people are playing on FOUR PERCENT (8/214) of the servers 1.7 million were playing on? How does anyone fall for these unsourced and unbelievable numbers? They don't pass even the most optimistic sniff-test.
SWTOR has anywere between 0-499 999 subs and 0-1 700 000 free players.
Thats EA numbers for ya ;P But at least one thing is confirmed now: they were well below 500k before F2P. Of course, anyone being realistic about SWTOR knew that.
Its has more active users than before F2P. Which says very little since they didnt have many before F2P.
Revenue has doubled. Which says very little because theres no word on profitability anywhere, and revenue before F2P was...not good, obviously.
I've read those interview statements. Twice. I even, a third-time, put it in Word to do a search for the term Star Wars. The only thing said about SWTOR is reproduced below:
Second, extra content and free-to-play contributed $224 million, up 45%, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, and solid results from Star Wars: The Old Republic and Bejeweled Blitz. This revenue relates to businesses on PC or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content -- including virtual characters, virtual goods and map packs associated with console, browser-based games or MMO’s. Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every six weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
There is no claim to subscription numbers.
There is no claim that subscriptions are up.
The only claim is 'active users' (a non-defined term) are up.
So I'd like to know where you pulled those numbers. Especially in light in that I've seen those (and similar to them) UNSOURCED NUMBERS thrown about for the LAST YEAR. AND 500K subs and 1.7 million F2P would necessitate EA reactivating a substantial number of the 200+ servers (for just North America, never mind the 100+ European servers) they shut down to get the same server load they had 14-months ago.
I mean, can we THINK about it before we believe things like ths? 2.2 MILLION people are playing on FOUR PERCENT (8/214) of the servers 1.7 million were playing on? How does anyone fall for these unsourced and unbelievable numbers? They don't pass even the most optimistic sniff-test.
The numbers are pulled from Polygon's coverage where they have quoted Frank Gibeau as saying...
"Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million."
"The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service and for players every six weeks or so."
It's pretty much standard practice in the industry to refer use accounts created as their F2P user statistics (playing or not which leads to less than accurate player counts, but good advertising spin), whereas subscribers are only counted if currently paying their subscription. The figures merely show 500k subscribers and some free users (some minor fraction of 1.2-1.7m, since many would no longer be playing or would be included in the subscriber count too). With many players not playing concurrently and spread over the servers currently active, it isn't unfeasible with current hardware.
500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!
But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.
Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
Originally posted by Gruug Bottom line....if you have a stack of cheese with a price tag on them....they will all be gone when you put a sign in front of that stack that says "free".
i dont like cheese, but my brother does,,,can i take a piece for him?
500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!
But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.
Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
NO!!!,,i DEMAND , that this thread continues, until they have 9 subs
im prolly good for another 20 years
just keep those numbers spinning,,sooner, or later, we gotta hit the right one
500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!
But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.
Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
Bingo.
Hypocrisy at its best ofcourse.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!
But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.
Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
Bingo.
Hypocrisy at its best ofcourse.
Actually SWTOR does not have 500K subs, it has/had just under 500K subs at the time of the conference call
How much is "just under"? I could see them calling 300K "just under"
Actually SWTOR does not have 500K subs, it has/had just under 500K subs at the time of the conference call
How much is "just under"? I could see them calling 300K "just under"
And yet, they have double the revenue.... so since they are making more money what does a sub really matter?
Anything to point out how much haters hate SWTOR and any "glimmer" of success on their part.
Since SWTOR is placed highly in the games that people play, as dictated earlier, how can it be seen as a bad thing? Subs mean absolutely didddly-poo in a cash shop f2p game. only revenue really does. Subs are only an important measure to those who equate subs to players. In a f2p game that is simply dumb.
Basically think of it this way. If Subs = popularity and active players, AION must really suck rubber balls as it has no subs
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Actually SWTOR does not have 500K subs, it has/had just under 500K subs at the time of the conference call
How much is "just under"? I could see them calling 300K "just under"
And yet, they have double the revenue.... so since they are making more money what does a sub really matter?
Anything to point out how much haters hate SWTOR and any "glimmer" of success on their part.
Since SWTOR is placed highly in the games that people play, as dictated earlier, how can it be seen as a bad thing? Subs mean absolutely didddly-poo in a cash shop f2p game. only revenue really does. Subs are only an important measure to those who equate subs to players. In a f2p game that is simply dumb.
Basically think of it this way. If Subs = popularity and active players, AION must really suck rubber balls as it has no subs
Yes they have double the revenue but without knowing the underlying numbers this is just corporate "make the investors feel good" speak.
$1 in revenue before they went F2P doubling to $2 would qualify! Nor does revenues doubling mean they are making a profit.
Now I think they might be if they have increased their average revenue from $3M to $6M since going F2P. And I base this on last years statements that they needed 500k subs to turn a profit - or about $7.5M a month - but since then they have reduced their headcount. Maybe the figure now is $4 or $5M.
And so profitable in December maybe when they will have had most of the new F2P accounts and lots of $5 preferred status sign-ups and a new cash shop. Maybe n January with Makeb advance purchases and again in April when Makeb launched. February through April though - could have been running at a loss.
So subs matter. In particular the number of subs they have later in May - after people have played through Makeb. If subs drop back to 200k (see other post) then that could mean that SWTOR will be running at a loss. EA won't get another 2M F2P accounts in the next 4 months; cash shop revenue will decline. I almost feel like saying that F2P has failed for SWTOR.
And in a way that may be a good thing as it will force EA to produce new DLC packs.
I almost feel like saying that SWTOR as a F2P game has failed. The number of F2P accounts created is relatively small. F2P games burn brightly but burn out quickly. SWTOR still has subs ... and that matters.
A - I never said profit. I said revenue. More money = more revenue
B - In many companies they say "by X quarter" or Last year. That is an average. There is going to be high quarters and low quarters. However if they doubled revenue from last year, They doubled revenue last year, who cares when it was done. It could have all been done in January for all the books care. As long as the final is "doubled" it is doubled.
If I double the amount of times I eat a cheeseburger from last year, but eat them all in January, does it invalidate the number of cheeseburgers I ate across the year?
C - If subs matter, and revenue doesn't.... well that still sounds strange. That is also an obvious LIE. (see prior Aion quote, GW 2 also falls in this category)
D - DLC is the new expansion packs. You can thank console games for this. However it is becoming more and more of a standard in the world of "content updates"
So lets recap.
Increased revenue = GOOD. It does not mean profitable, it simply means good
Sub =/= accurate measurement of revenue
f2p games (like LOTRO) will die a horrible flaming death quickly... oh wait LOTRO is still around?, it has had several expansions? gee whoda thunkit
Expect to see more games going the route of DLC as it is less stress on development. The company makes more money in the long run (any old 2nd ed TSR D&D players should already understand this overall concept). And they can hype up lesser things to keep interest at a "comfortable level" (Games Workshop players will understand "staggered relases")
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!
But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.
Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
Bingo.
Hypocrisy at its best ofcourse.
Actually SWTOR does not have 500K subs, it has/had just under 500K subs at the time of the conference call
How much is "just under"? I could see them calling 300K "just under"
Very good illustration on missing the entire point.
Comments
It was also claimed that SWTOR would redefine the MMO genre forever, whether it failed or succeeded. Because it was Star Wars, and Bioware! And it had voice acting and personal, branching storylines! There was no way it couldn't be genre-changing!
John Smedley claimed it was the last major MMO that would ever launch with a sub-model (he was wrong, too).
People should go back and read some of the hype this game had. It was beyond ridiculous. The only game whose hype could rival it in recent memory is GW2 - that game had some hysterical hype around it, too... which it also failed to live up to.
What's really funny, though, Sevenstar, is that back during beta and overall pre-release of SWTOR, if you'd suggested that it wouldn't surpass WoW, nor any of the other things it was predicted would happen, but that it would find its own dedicated playerbase and would do fine overall, you were called a hater and a troll and told to go away. I would know. I was one of the ones trying to put a more grounded perspective on it.
Funny how you don't hear that anymore, now that reality entered the picture and proved all those "haters and trolls" right.
Your info is off, those games are still sub based in the east. They only made them free over here because they were going to die if they did not.
And what is sub in the East??? We all know that WoW subs are a bit different in the east than in West?
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Then its not #2 behind WoW. I was talking about western subs because I know it did not have over 500K over here. If we are talking about World Wide sub then games like Aion, Blade and Soul, Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 have subs in the millions. 500K world wide is nonthing.
It is still ahead of SWTOR.
Eve is ahead in world wide subscribers. Eve is not ahead in total players, and it's unlikely to be ahead in revenue generation. It might be ahead in profitability, but that would require some access to the financials of the games and how the businesses around the games are run.
Is there really anything else that can be said about Eve and SWToR's subscribers?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Or you could say......
SWTOR is one of the most popular mmo's, close to EVE in subscribers and well over a million F2P accounts. Most mmo's would kill for that success.
Y'know, if you want to look at the glass as half full. I do believe the other half is beyond empty.
Lizard if you use that logic the TOR naysayers will only use it to undermine EA's numbers.... hey what a minute... let me think.... they're already doing it I'm such a dumbass.. Whats good for the goose and all that.
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Indeed! How dare anyone imply that 500k Asians paying to playing a game is somehow equivalent to 500k Americans! Oh the indignity!
Well then Vunak's claims are incomplete (and still not properly supported regardless), either. He's listing decidedly Korean/Eastern games right in the same breath as decidedly Western games, making no distinction between which version he's referring to. If he's referring to a specific region, then he should have indicated that, no?
It wouldn't be far-fetched to assume he's referring to the Western version of the games, and not the Eastern one.
Nah! its better assume he was pulling numbers out of his backside than to give anything he wrote credence.
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I've read those interview statements. Twice. I even, a third-time, put it in Word to do a search for the term Star Wars. The only thing said about SWTOR is reproduced below:
Second, extra content and free-to-play contributed $224 million, up 45%, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, and solid results from Star Wars: The Old Republic and Bejeweled Blitz. This revenue relates to businesses on PC or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content -- including virtual characters, virtual goods and map packs associated with console, browser-based games or MMO’s. Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every six weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
So I'd like to know where you pulled those numbers. Especially in light in that I've seen those (and similar to them) UNSOURCED NUMBERS thrown about for the LAST YEAR. AND 500K subs and 1.7 million F2P would necessitate EA reactivating a substantial number of the 200+ servers (for just North America, never mind the 100+ European servers) they shut down to get the same server load they had 14-months ago.
I mean, can we THINK about it before we believe things like ths? 2.2 MILLION people are playing on FOUR PERCENT (8/214) of the servers 1.7 million were playing on? How does anyone fall for these unsourced and unbelievable numbers? They don't pass even the most optimistic sniff-test.
Once you can prove EA didnt count any of their subs outside of "west" borders you might have a point.
SWTOR is released worldwide and has worldwide audience. No restrictions. Even has "Oceanic" servers. Is that far enough east or do you still count those as west also? Some arbitrary border you made to suit your point?
SWTOR has anywere between 0-499 999 subs and 0-1 700 000 free players.
Thats EA numbers for ya ;P But at least one thing is confirmed now: they were well below 500k before F2P. Of course, anyone being realistic about SWTOR knew that.
Its has more active users than before F2P. Which says very little since they didnt have many before F2P.
Revenue has doubled. Which says very little because theres no word on profitability anywhere, and revenue before F2P was...not good, obviously.
The numbers are pulled from Polygon's coverage where they have quoted Frank Gibeau as saying...
"Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million."
"The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service and for players every six weeks or so."
It's pretty much standard practice in the industry to refer use accounts created as their F2P user statistics (playing or not which leads to less than accurate player counts, but good advertising spin), whereas subscribers are only counted if currently paying their subscription. The figures merely show 500k subscribers and some free users (some minor fraction of 1.2-1.7m, since many would no longer be playing or would be included in the subscriber count too). With many players not playing concurrently and spread over the servers currently active, it isn't unfeasible with current hardware.
So in this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/384446/Proof-of-sandbox-popularity.html
500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!
But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.
Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
i dont like cheese, but my brother does,,,can i take a piece for him?
NO!!!,,i DEMAND , that this thread continues, until they have 9 subs
im prolly good for another 20 years
just keep those numbers spinning,,sooner, or later, we gotta hit the right one
Bingo.
Hypocrisy at its best ofcourse.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
hypocrisy?,,like having a successful, and growing game, that somehow seems to have steadily declining
sub numbers?
yes, i underestimated the power of the cartel coin
but 3 or 4 more "positive" reports, like this one,,and there wont be a game anymore
remember the previous "just below.." number they gave?
using the new number, would actually put them at roughly 300 k
Actually SWTOR does not have 500K subs, it has/had just under 500K subs at the time of the conference call
How much is "just under"? I could see them calling 300K "just under"
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
oh yea,,i wonder, at what number, they would claim to have 300k
im a child of the commercial age, so im kind of used to this PR bull
but it still hurts, when it happens to products, that i care about
no, not swtor,,but star wars
And yet, they have double the revenue.... so since they are making more money what does a sub really matter?
Anything to point out how much haters hate SWTOR and any "glimmer" of success on their part.
Since SWTOR is placed highly in the games that people play, as dictated earlier, how can it be seen as a bad thing? Subs mean absolutely didddly-poo in a cash shop f2p game. only revenue really does. Subs are only an important measure to those who equate subs to players. In a f2p game that is simply dumb.
Basically think of it this way. If Subs = popularity and active players, AION must really suck rubber balls as it has no subs
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Yes they have double the revenue but without knowing the underlying numbers this is just corporate "make the investors feel good" speak.
$1 in revenue before they went F2P doubling to $2 would qualify! Nor does revenues doubling mean they are making a profit.
Now I think they might be if they have increased their average revenue from $3M to $6M since going F2P. And I base this on last years statements that they needed 500k subs to turn a profit - or about $7.5M a month - but since then they have reduced their headcount. Maybe the figure now is $4 or $5M.
And so profitable in December maybe when they will have had most of the new F2P accounts and lots of $5 preferred status sign-ups and a new cash shop. Maybe n January with Makeb advance purchases and again in April when Makeb launched. February through April though - could have been running at a loss.
So subs matter. In particular the number of subs they have later in May - after people have played through Makeb. If subs drop back to 200k (see other post) then that could mean that SWTOR will be running at a loss. EA won't get another 2M F2P accounts in the next 4 months; cash shop revenue will decline. I almost feel like saying that F2P has failed for SWTOR.
And in a way that may be a good thing as it will force EA to produce new DLC packs.
I almost feel like saying that SWTOR as a F2P game has failed. The number of F2P accounts created is relatively small. F2P games burn brightly but burn out quickly. SWTOR still has subs ... and that matters.
A - I never said profit. I said revenue. More money = more revenue
B - In many companies they say "by X quarter" or Last year. That is an average. There is going to be high quarters and low quarters. However if they doubled revenue from last year, They doubled revenue last year, who cares when it was done. It could have all been done in January for all the books care. As long as the final is "doubled" it is doubled.
If I double the amount of times I eat a cheeseburger from last year, but eat them all in January, does it invalidate the number of cheeseburgers I ate across the year?
C - If subs matter, and revenue doesn't.... well that still sounds strange. That is also an obvious LIE. (see prior Aion quote, GW 2 also falls in this category)
D - DLC is the new expansion packs. You can thank console games for this. However it is becoming more and more of a standard in the world of "content updates"
So lets recap.
Increased revenue = GOOD. It does not mean profitable, it simply means good
Sub =/= accurate measurement of revenue
f2p games (like LOTRO) will die a horrible flaming death quickly... oh wait LOTRO is still around?, it has had several expansions? gee whoda thunkit
Expect to see more games going the route of DLC as it is less stress on development. The company makes more money in the long run (any old 2nd ed TSR D&D players should already understand this overall concept). And they can hype up lesser things to keep interest at a "comfortable level" (Games Workshop players will understand "staggered relases")
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
This whole thread is hilarious and irrelevant to most people anyway.
Unless you are an investor in EA stock in which case, you love EA right now.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11918265/1/electronic-arts-inc-stock-upgraded-ea.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=EA+Interactive#symbol=ea;range=1m;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
I guess 'winning' the 'worst company' online poll didn't have much of an impact; remember they won last year too!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Very good illustration on missing the entire point.