As soon as mmos were created in such a way as to make it possible for you to solo most of the time...i.e., WOW, RIft,...present games include NWN, GW2...games you know - these aren't immersive mmorpgs with open worlds and intelligent, thought provoking communities who offer aid and advice freely.
Why be social when you don't need to be...or when it's not truly rewarding enough?
I solo'd in UO all day long. So your point is moot.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The surge has been caused by the games themselves. Nearly every MMO that has come out in recent years places 'convenience' mechanics into the game that actually undermine it. Specifically I am referring to tools like group finders, public quests, and welfare epics. They make things easier for players, which most players really like (though they shouldn't). Unfortunately they also have the side effect of making more players obnoxious because said players are not actually required to interact in any meaningful way with other people to accomplish their goals.
MMOs should always be social games that force players to interact with one another in order to achieve meaningful ambitions they may have. Additionally, if games help to foster positive interaction, they are less likely to be failures, since players would feel connected to their community, and could continue to play for the social aspects long after the content has run out.
At this low point in MMO gaming, I refuse to play even the shiniest turd.
Honestly? I blame "civilization" and the removal of "survival of the fittest" allowing every inbred person to continue to multiply. Hence you get a lower quality human being generation after generation. At least till some civilization collapses and the slate gets wiped clean again. Disturbing but honest answer. Applies to most issues today.
In addition, games cater more and more to anti-socials. Only accelerating the issue.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
It may be true the gaming world has gotten a bit bigger, I'm pretty sure it has but to go so far as to say well gee wiz more players means more id10ts seems...well it seems stupid. I can't truly swallow that as a answer. I'm at a loss of how to really put it that doesn't come off harsh so I'll leave that to the readers.
Why can't you swallow that? We swallow it every day.
There is a fundamental difference between living in Manhattan and living in Bugtussle, TN.
Why would it be unreasonable to expect a fundamental difference between the early mmo experience ('boutique' games, by any modern standard) and the 'big city' Massive MMOs after the gamer population explosion?
Players have persisted in treating it as a Generation Gap problem...when there's every indication that's it's simply a question of Scale.
But grandpa crossed his arms and proclaimed "It's no use, we're all doomed", too. Problem is that so did Socrates. For the 5000 years or so of recorded human history, the worst prophecies have failed to come to pass.
That won't stop every stump-thumping preacher from telling us "the end is nigh" any time soon, of course. Particularly not every stump-thumping Forum preacher (we have many, many locally).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Right. But why is it designed so that solo play is the fastest way to progress? That is the design flaw. People should be rewarded for taking the time to create groups and socialize instead of punished for it.
Why? Is socializing more fun? It is just one of the many preferences of gamers. Certainly not everyone think it is that important. Otherwise, we won't have the trend of solo-content, and convenience.
There is no flaw. Just a design to give in to basic human instincts. Heck, if someone create a game very hostile to solo-ing, the ones that cater to solo-ing will win out. You can't fight basic supply & demand (well you can but you will lose lots of money).
The goal of games are providing fun to their customers. Socialization is just a by-product .. and it seems it is not even a very wanted one.
PUGs haven't been friendly for a very long time. They are apparently for speed runs. If you want social activity, you have to join guilds that don't really want you because you haven't done enough speed runs.
So... start a guild that's for people who haven't done so many "speed runs" (whatever they are), but which focuses on enjoyable social interaction as much as gear scores and DPS.
PUGs haven't been friendly for a very long time. They are apparently for speed runs. If you want social activity, you have to join guilds that don't really want you because you haven't done enough speed runs.
So... start a guild that's for people who haven't done so many "speed runs" (whatever they are), but which focuses on enjoyable social interaction as much as gear scores and DPS.
There are plenty of social guilds which do nothing but chat. I don't see a problem.
The question You all should be asking is how to make ways to avoid these apes, I realize I, making this claim, insult the spicies of apes, and for this I am truely sorry and apologize to all apes. I hold no grudge against apes. We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all. Only with the backing of the devs these lesser beings can be singled out and punished properly. I am tired of having to seek out my happy place while bending for the soap, turning the other cheek, or trying by acting kind to reinforce good behaviour. I believe it is time for using the axe, sticks are overrated.
Originally posted by Gnarv We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all.
"I yam the law"--Sly Stallone
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Gnarv The question You all should be asking is how to make ways to avoid these apes, I realize I, making this claim, insult the spicies of apes, and for this I am truely sorry and apologize to all apes. I hold no grudge against apes. We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all. Only with the backing of the devs these lesser beings can be singled out and punished properly. I am tired of having to seek out my happy place while bending for the soap, turning the other cheek, or trying by acting kind to reinforce good behaviour. I believe it is time for using the axe, sticks are overrated.
Originally posted by StonesDK People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences
Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.
I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can
Things have changed, but blacklisting isn't the reason why. There were thousands of people on a server to play with. Even "back in the day" there were more people than any person could effectively keep track of.
It happened frequently. Back then you didn't have 50 guilds all doing raid content. You had a handful. I even remember a few guilds that were formed by bad apples because they couldn't get an invite to any of the key guilds that did content nobody else did. You see the top end content were only done by a small group of people. Not half the server and people talked and shared their bad experiences. If somebody stole something then it was a huge deal. Not like today where you are told to shut up if you mentioned being ninja'd from
The lower levels were a bit easier but again, because it took longer to advance, people didn't just race through, There weren't infinite group spots where one could hide. You would often come across the same people in your level bracket.
I guess you and I just have much different experiences with EQ. I wouldn't even try to argue this point if I didn't see it with my own eyes. Hell I even personally know people who had to re-roll. A poor mans namechange
I'm with Stones on this one.
Even getting into a guild they wanted to know what guild you were in before and why you left and the GL's would normally have a conversation about you.
We are in the age of gaming ADD.
You can solo your way to max level so there is no reason to make friends really. And if you do need someone to help you there better be something in it for them because the days of camping rear drops from rear mobs for the priests clicker are long dead.
Right. But why is it designed so that solo play is the fastest way to progress? That is the design flaw. People should be rewarded for taking the time to create groups and socialize instead of punished for it.
Why? Is socializing more fun? It is just one of the many preferences of gamers. Certainly not everyone think it is that important. Otherwise, we won't have the trend of solo-content, and convenience.There is no flaw. Just a design to give in to basic human instincts. Heck, if someone create a game very hostile to solo-ing, the ones that cater to solo-ing will win out. You can't fight basic supply & demand (well you can but you will lose lots of money).The goal of games are providing fun to their customers. Socialization is just a by-product .. and it seems it is not even a very wanted one.
This doesn't even make sense... If people prefer to play by themselves there is an entire genre ready and waiting for them called Singleplayer games. There is a flaw. When you manipulate what an MMORPG was intentionally designed for Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game, it was intended to be played with everyone around you. To create lasting relationships and experiences with everyone around you. Is socializing fun? Of course it is. Would you rather be slaying that dragon by yourself in easy mode? Or would you rather be working with a massive amount of friends taking it down? If you answer with the former you should go to singleplayer games the gameplay is much more advanced than a MMO's.
FFXI is a game that does wonderfully and forces grouping. It is in fact one of the most successful games in the MMO market. Even being huge company SOE's largest and most profitable game to date.
According to these forums and many others, socialization is a very wanted thing in MMOs.
Go back to singleplayer games and consoles and leave the actual MMORPG fans alone, stop ruining our genre with your easy-mode gameplay and antisocial attitude.
Originally posted by faxnadulfg tool is to blame.
This is true. But also I think if you look above, people like the guy I'm arguing with are also to blame
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
After thinking this one over and trying to recall "the good old days", I now remember the following things happening to me:
Being scammed out of the first gold I made in EQ1 when I was a noob and people took advantage of it.
Having people kill steal Krayt Dragons and Acklay off of me in SWG when I would have been more than happy to work with them. Dorks!
Having people steal from the guild and city in SWG which were meant to help everyone.
Having people kill steal in WoW for no reason at all. (Probably gold farmers though to be honest)
I feel that the internet has always had its fair share of scum and villainy. The only difference between then and now... is that more people know it to be true.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
The surge of anti-social players is due to all the things that people FOR YEARS claimed for 'part of the game'.
FFA PvP
Spawn Camping
Ninja Looting
No Dungeon Finder - People say without it you talk more. You don't. Without it you afk and watch tv until the group fills up, then you rush through the dungeon cuz you're already tired of standing around doing nothing.
World/Area Chat Trolling
Elitist Guilds
etc., etc., etc. Basically, the MMO environment has become anti-social because it was allowed to degrade to that point via elements used and abused in the game that made people feel battered and unwelcomed. In real life, when someone is raised in that kind of environment, they grow up jaded, cynical and anti-social. It's a defensive mechanism. Sure enough, we see that in the new generation of games and gamers now, as well.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Originally posted by Gnarv The question You all should be asking is how to make ways to avoid these apes, I realize I, making this claim, insult the spicies of apes, and for this I am truely sorry and apologize to all apes. I hold no grudge against apes. We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all. Only with the backing of the devs these lesser beings can be singled out and punished properly. I am tired of having to seek out my happy place while bending for the soap, turning the other cheek, or trying by acting kind to reinforce good behaviour. I believe it is time for using the axe, sticks are overrated.
Or you can just quit.
I hear that works in real life as well.
nah ... we are talking about games.
it is not that hard to hit the "quit" button when you have a bad group.
Originally posted by Gnarv The question You all should be asking is how to make ways to avoid these apes, I realize I, making this claim, insult the spicies of apes, and for this I am truely sorry and apologize to all apes. I hold no grudge against apes. We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all. Only with the backing of the devs these lesser beings can be singled out and punished properly. I am tired of having to seek out my happy place while bending for the soap, turning the other cheek, or trying by acting kind to reinforce good behaviour. I believe it is time for using the axe, sticks are overrated.
Or you can just quit.
I hear that works in real life as well.
nah ... we are talking about games.
it is not that hard to hit the "quit" button when you have a bad group.
But even in games there are different levels of "quit." There is group quit, guild quit and game quit. Just like there is job quit, friend quit and life quit. And there's always the "why should I quit? you quit" option.
But back on topic... the group member kick option in WOW has been around for a long time. A couple of months back when I went back to WOW for a quick visit, I found that it's being used, in my own unscientific estimation, in about 50% of PUGs I was in... this is much more often than I remember. I've also seen the deliberate wipe followed by "hahahaha I wiped you!" used much more often than I remember... things are different.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Gnarv The question You all should be asking is how to make ways to avoid these apes, I realize I, making this claim, insult the spicies of apes, and for this I am truely sorry and apologize to all apes. I hold no grudge against apes. We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all. Only with the backing of the devs these lesser beings can be singled out and punished properly. I am tired of having to seek out my happy place while bending for the soap, turning the other cheek, or trying by acting kind to reinforce good behaviour. I believe it is time for using the axe, sticks are overrated.
Or you can just quit.
I hear that works in real life as well.
nah ... we are talking about games.
it is not that hard to hit the "quit" button when you have a bad group.
But even in games there are different levels of "quit." There is group quit, guild quit and game quit. Just like there is job quit, friend quit and life quit. And there's always the "why should I quit? you quit" option.
But back on topic... the group member kick option in WOW has been around for a long time. A couple of months back when I went back to WOW for a quick visit, I found that it's being used, in my own unscientific estimation, in about 50% of PUGs I was in... this is much more often than I remember. I've also seen the deliberate wipe followed by "hahahaha I wiped you!" used much more often than I remember... things are different.
That is because there are no consequences in games like that anymore for acting like a asshole. Especially in a huge game like WoW you are playing with people on servers you probably never heard of. Support tickets go unanswered for days or weeks. If you randomly queue the chances of running into any of those people again are slim. Players can just pay a bit and change their name, character, and server before anything could be done. There have always been people like this, but the server knew about them and avoided them at all costs or did things to grief them back if the chance arose. And finally there weren't millions of them!
I watched my brother play PUGs in Pandaria and it was absolutely nauseating. Everyone is an asshole, everyone is the greatest player ever not to mention that a 6 year old could play that game now, and as soon as its over everyone just leaves immediately. It just seemed so shallow and not what I remember an MMO being.
Playing : DayZ
Played : EVE, GW, SB, DF, AoC, WoW, WaR, L1, L2, Rift, AA, WS
The surge of anti-social players is due to all the things that people FOR YEARS claimed for 'part of the game'.
FFA PvP
Spawn Camping
Ninja Looting
No Dungeon Finder - People say without it you talk more. You don't. Without it you afk and watch tv until the group fills up, then you rush through the dungeon cuz you're already tired of standing around doing nothing.
World/Area Chat Trolling
Elitist Guilds
etc., etc., etc. Basically, the MMO environment has become anti-social because it was allowed to degrade to that point via elements used and abused in the game that made people feel battered and unwelcomed. In real life, when someone is raised in that kind of environment, they grow up jaded, cynical and anti-social. It's a defensive mechanism. Sure enough, we see that in the new generation of games and gamers now, as well.
All of those reasons, save for FFA PvP, are why most believe anti-social gamers are surging.
FFA PvP, what games employ this that have an anti-social mentality? In Darkfall Online you either get a social guild or you quit. FFA PvP FORCES you to become social or be ganked and quit.
Spawn Camping? I've not seen a game yet that has spawn camping.....maybe Age of Conan pvp servers in their early days, but that was really re-spawn camping?
Ninja-Looting has been around since UO, and is not a cause.
Dungeon Finders are a direct cause to anti-social gaming. You don't have to know anyone in your group, or even be nice. You just click it, insta-group, don't talk, do the instance, done. Classic anti-social behavior in one button.
Elitist guilds? How is this even an anti-social causing item? That doesn't even make sense. Just because a particular group of people like their own type of player (hardcore raider, hardcore pvper, hardcore crafters, etc) doesn't make that anti-social.....at ALL.
World/Area chat trolling, again, has been in since the first MMO, and is only a symptom of people being bored wanting something to do. Or, very sad individuals who like to start arguments for the sake of it (aka: trolls). this is more of a symptom than anything else.
I watched my brother play PUGs in Pandaria and it was nauseating to watch. Everyone is an asshole, everyone is the greatest player ever not to mention that a 6 year old could play that game now, and as soon as its over everyone just leaves immediately. It just seemed so shallow and not what I remember an MMO being.
This is all true but this topic is not about whether it's bad or not. It's more about whether it has gotten worse and why.
Cross-server LFG in WOW has been around for many years and, yes, it creates an environment where it's easy to be anti-social or an ass without many consequences. But in 2013, using the same system with the same problems, it feels a lot worse to me than it did 3 years ago (the last time I was there.)
IMHO, this is a reflection of society in general. It has become conventional wisdom that if you're being selfish and aggressive you're being "real" and if you're being polite and helpful you're being "fake." This is reflected in movies, TV, pop music, etc. So why would anyone think MMOS are exempt?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I watched my brother play PUGs in Pandaria and it was nauseating to watch. Everyone is an asshole, everyone is the greatest player ever not to mention that a 6 year old could play that game now, and as soon as its over everyone just leaves immediately. It just seemed so shallow and not what I remember an MMO being.
This is all true but this topic is not about whether it's bad or not. It's more about whether it has gotten worse and why.
Cross-server LFG in WOW has been around for many years and, yes, it creates an environment where it's easy to be anti-social or an ass without many consequences. But in 2013, using the same system with the same problems, it feels a lot worse to me than it did 3 years ago (the last time I was there.)
IMHO, this is a reflection of society in general. It has become conventional wisdom that if you're being selfish and aggressive you're being "real" and if you're being polite and helpful you're being "fake." This is reflected in movies, TV, pop music, etc. So why would anyone think MMOS are exempt?
I disagree completely.
I don't believe it to be a reflection of society. I believe the increase over the past couple years is because MMO Producers (the real yes/no'ers on a game) are catering to ultra-casuals who want no responsibilities tied to their characters.
One of the features I've noticed is a primary carrier of anti-social behavior is the LF-Dungeon tool. It's a simple button that allows you automated group matching without having to know or be nice to anyone for the group to succeed. Anti-social at its core, and a good reason to never include it in any other products on the market.
I still dont believe that a LFD tool causes any sort of anti-social behavior, at least not to the degree that people seem to think it does. Of course all evidence is anecdotal, but the vast majority of my groups across many games go fine, yea there are ALWAYS those groups that are horrible, but I had those long before LFD tools.
I do get more of those bad groups than before, but thats because im generally doing many more dungeons a day than I did before a tool.
I believe, it mostly has to do with a massive increase in the general player base for MMOs not to mention that most seem fairly transient in their dealings with new MMOs, play for a little, then on to the next.
I still dont believe that a LFD tool causes any sort of anti-social behavior, at least not to the degree that people seem to think it does. Of course all evidence is anecdotal, but the vast majority of my groups across many games go fine, yea there are ALWAYS those groups that are horrible, but I had those long before LFD tools.
I do get more of those bad groups than before, but thats because im generally doing many more dungeons a day than I did before a tool.
I believe, it mostly has to do with a massive increase in the general player base for MMOs not to mention that most seem fairly transient in their dealings with new MMOs, play for a little, then on to the next.
I've never, ever, had a positive experience from the LFD tool, however personal experiences are....well...personal.
That being said, you can't argue against the LFD tool killing "Open World" gameplay. Therefore, SOE won't include it in EQ:Next since they're aiming for OpenWorld game design.
Comments
I solo'd in UO all day long. So your point is moot.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The surge has been caused by the games themselves. Nearly every MMO that has come out in recent years places 'convenience' mechanics into the game that actually undermine it. Specifically I am referring to tools like group finders, public quests, and welfare epics. They make things easier for players, which most players really like (though they shouldn't). Unfortunately they also have the side effect of making more players obnoxious because said players are not actually required to interact in any meaningful way with other people to accomplish their goals.
MMOs should always be social games that force players to interact with one another in order to achieve meaningful ambitions they may have. Additionally, if games help to foster positive interaction, they are less likely to be failures, since players would feel connected to their community, and could continue to play for the social aspects long after the content has run out.
At this low point in MMO gaming, I refuse to play even the shiniest turd.
Honestly? I blame "civilization" and the removal of "survival of the fittest" allowing every inbred person to continue to multiply. Hence you get a lower quality human being generation after generation. At least till some civilization collapses and the slate gets wiped clean again. Disturbing but honest answer. Applies to most issues today.
In addition, games cater more and more to anti-socials. Only accelerating the issue.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Why can't you swallow that? We swallow it every day.
There is a fundamental difference between living in Manhattan and living in Bugtussle, TN.
Why would it be unreasonable to expect a fundamental difference between the early mmo experience ('boutique' games, by any modern standard) and the 'big city' Massive MMOs after the gamer population explosion?
Players have persisted in treating it as a Generation Gap problem...when there's every indication that's it's simply a question of Scale.
But grandpa crossed his arms and proclaimed "It's no use, we're all doomed", too. Problem is that so did Socrates. For the 5000 years or so of recorded human history, the worst prophecies have failed to come to pass.
That won't stop every stump-thumping preacher from telling us "the end is nigh" any time soon, of course. Particularly not every stump-thumping Forum preacher (we have many, many locally).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Why? Is socializing more fun? It is just one of the many preferences of gamers. Certainly not everyone think it is that important. Otherwise, we won't have the trend of solo-content, and convenience.
There is no flaw. Just a design to give in to basic human instincts. Heck, if someone create a game very hostile to solo-ing, the ones that cater to solo-ing will win out. You can't fight basic supply & demand (well you can but you will lose lots of money).
The goal of games are providing fun to their customers. Socialization is just a by-product .. and it seems it is not even a very wanted one.
So... start a guild that's for people who haven't done so many "speed runs" (whatever they are), but which focuses on enjoyable social interaction as much as gear scores and DPS.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
There are plenty of social guilds which do nothing but chat. I don't see a problem.
"I yam the law"--Sly StalloneSelf-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Or you can just quit.
I'm with Stones on this one.
Even getting into a guild they wanted to know what guild you were in before and why you left and the GL's would normally have a conversation about you.
We are in the age of gaming ADD.
You can solo your way to max level so there is no reason to make friends really. And if you do need someone to help you there better be something in it for them because the days of camping rear drops from rear mobs for the priests clicker are long dead.
What has caused the literal surge of anti-social gamers?
two words. "Elitist Dicks"
everyone seems to be an expert and are not tolerant to those who are not.
Why be social if you are going to be talked down to?
FFXI is a game that does wonderfully and forces grouping. It is in fact one of the most successful games in the MMO market. Even being huge company SOE's largest and most profitable game to date.
According to these forums and many others, socialization is a very wanted thing in MMOs.
Go back to singleplayer games and consoles and leave the actual MMORPG fans alone, stop ruining our genre with your easy-mode gameplay and antisocial attitude.
This is true. But also I think if you look above, people like the guy I'm arguing with are also to blame"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
After thinking this one over and trying to recall "the good old days", I now remember the following things happening to me:
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
The surge of anti-social players is due to all the things that people FOR YEARS claimed for 'part of the game'.
FFA PvP
Spawn Camping
Ninja Looting
No Dungeon Finder - People say without it you talk more. You don't. Without it you afk and watch tv until the group fills up, then you rush through the dungeon cuz you're already tired of standing around doing nothing.
World/Area Chat Trolling
Elitist Guilds
etc., etc., etc. Basically, the MMO environment has become anti-social because it was allowed to degrade to that point via elements used and abused in the game that made people feel battered and unwelcomed. In real life, when someone is raised in that kind of environment, they grow up jaded, cynical and anti-social. It's a defensive mechanism. Sure enough, we see that in the new generation of games and gamers now, as well.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
nah ... we are talking about games.
it is not that hard to hit the "quit" button when you have a bad group.
But even in games there are different levels of "quit." There is group quit, guild quit and game quit. Just like there is job quit, friend quit and life quit. And there's always the "why should I quit? you quit" option.
But back on topic... the group member kick option in WOW has been around for a long time. A couple of months back when I went back to WOW for a quick visit, I found that it's being used, in my own unscientific estimation, in about 50% of PUGs I was in... this is much more often than I remember. I've also seen the deliberate wipe followed by "hahahaha I wiped you!" used much more often than I remember... things are different.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That is because there are no consequences in games like that anymore for acting like a asshole. Especially in a huge game like WoW you are playing with people on servers you probably never heard of. Support tickets go unanswered for days or weeks. If you randomly queue the chances of running into any of those people again are slim. Players can just pay a bit and change their name, character, and server before anything could be done. There have always been people like this, but the server knew about them and avoided them at all costs or did things to grief them back if the chance arose. And finally there weren't millions of them!
I watched my brother play PUGs in Pandaria and it was absolutely nauseating. Everyone is an asshole, everyone is the greatest player ever not to mention that a 6 year old could play that game now, and as soon as its over everyone just leaves immediately. It just seemed so shallow and not what I remember an MMO being.
Playing : DayZ
Played : EVE, GW, SB, DF, AoC, WoW, WaR, L1, L2, Rift, AA, WS
Loved: DAoC, EVE, SB, old WoW, L2, GW2, EQ1-2
All of those reasons, save for FFA PvP, are why most believe anti-social gamers are surging.
FFA PvP, what games employ this that have an anti-social mentality? In Darkfall Online you either get a social guild or you quit. FFA PvP FORCES you to become social or be ganked and quit.
Spawn Camping? I've not seen a game yet that has spawn camping.....maybe Age of Conan pvp servers in their early days, but that was really re-spawn camping?
Ninja-Looting has been around since UO, and is not a cause.
Dungeon Finders are a direct cause to anti-social gaming. You don't have to know anyone in your group, or even be nice. You just click it, insta-group, don't talk, do the instance, done. Classic anti-social behavior in one button.
Elitist guilds? How is this even an anti-social causing item? That doesn't even make sense. Just because a particular group of people like their own type of player (hardcore raider, hardcore pvper, hardcore crafters, etc) doesn't make that anti-social.....at ALL.
World/Area chat trolling, again, has been in since the first MMO, and is only a symptom of people being bored wanting something to do. Or, very sad individuals who like to start arguments for the sake of it (aka: trolls). this is more of a symptom than anything else.
This is all true but this topic is not about whether it's bad or not. It's more about whether it has gotten worse and why.
Cross-server LFG in WOW has been around for many years and, yes, it creates an environment where it's easy to be anti-social or an ass without many consequences. But in 2013, using the same system with the same problems, it feels a lot worse to me than it did 3 years ago (the last time I was there.)
IMHO, this is a reflection of society in general. It has become conventional wisdom that if you're being selfish and aggressive you're being "real" and if you're being polite and helpful you're being "fake." This is reflected in movies, TV, pop music, etc. So why would anyone think MMOS are exempt?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I disagree completely.
I don't believe it to be a reflection of society. I believe the increase over the past couple years is because MMO Producers (the real yes/no'ers on a game) are catering to ultra-casuals who want no responsibilities tied to their characters.
One of the features I've noticed is a primary carrier of anti-social behavior is the LF-Dungeon tool. It's a simple button that allows you automated group matching without having to know or be nice to anyone for the group to succeed. Anti-social at its core, and a good reason to never include it in any other products on the market.
I still dont believe that a LFD tool causes any sort of anti-social behavior, at least not to the degree that people seem to think it does. Of course all evidence is anecdotal, but the vast majority of my groups across many games go fine, yea there are ALWAYS those groups that are horrible, but I had those long before LFD tools.
I do get more of those bad groups than before, but thats because im generally doing many more dungeons a day than I did before a tool.
I believe, it mostly has to do with a massive increase in the general player base for MMOs not to mention that most seem fairly transient in their dealings with new MMOs, play for a little, then on to the next.
I've never, ever, had a positive experience from the LFD tool, however personal experiences are....well...personal.
That being said, you can't argue against the LFD tool killing "Open World" gameplay. Therefore, SOE won't include it in EQ:Next since they're aiming for OpenWorld game design.