What has caused the literal surge of anti-social gamers?

BearKnight

I've been reading a lot, and experiencing...A LOT, of anti-social gamers recently in newer titles. Specifically in Rift, Neverwinter, and SWTOR when I gave them a test-drive. 

 

By anti-social, I mean PUG groups that act worse than your creepy next-door neighbor whom always yells at you about your cat running around your apartment at odd hours of the night. 

 

I'm used to PUG groups being fun & enjoyable from previous titles like EQ1, SWG, AC1, AC2, etc etc. It was all about socializing, getting to meet new people, learning how to play classes better because that one magician could solo 9 mobs at once that were 3 levels above him, etc.

 

Nowadays if I EVER do a "pickup group" I'm left with mute ninja-looting immature children whom scoff at the thought of using real words rather than short abbreviated statements such as "Nope LOL", "u Mad?", or [insert expletives as an adjective followed by your instead of you're].

 

Instead of being nostalgic for gameplay of the past I'm starting to become nostalgic for the communities of the past .

 

-Bear

 

TheLizardbones

PUGs haven't been friendly for a very long time. They are apparently for speed runs. If you want social activity, you have to join guilds that don't really want you because you haven't done enough speed runs.

StonesDK

People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences

 

Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.

 

I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can

BearKnight

Originally posted by StonesDK

People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences

 

Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.

 

I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can

If that's the case I genuinely hope that the "Game Industry Crash" people keep predicting for 2014-2015 happens. I'm seriously depressed at how people are completely willing to accept terrible quality products & service as "Good Enough". That, and MMOs were never meant to be super-casual friendly. That's what consoles are for .

ThaneUlfgar

I think it's really pretty simple. The more people who are playing games; the more likely you are to encounter unsavory individuals.

StonesDK

Originally posted by BearKnight

Originally posted by StonesDK

People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences

 

Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.

 

I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can

If that's the case I genuinely hope that the "Game Industry Crash" people keep predicting for 2014-2015 happens. I'm seriously depressed at how people are completely willing to accept terrible quality products & service as "Good Enough". That, and MMOs were never meant to be super-casual friendly. That's what consoles are for .

We have to adapt or find a new hobby I'm afraid. Server moves, name change, fast instance runs etc are all here to stay.

If a game lacks those "basic MMO features" they have become, then people either won't play it or complain enough until it gets added.

TheLizardbones

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Originally posted by StonesDK
People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares. I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can

---

Things have changed, but blacklisting isn't the reason why. There were thousands of people on a server to play with. Even "back in the day" there were more people than any person could effectively keep track of. It's just not feasible that everyone on the server could remember and keep track of all the people that should not be allowed to group. If someone got blacklisted from one group, they could just move to another group. I suppose it's possible they could get blacklisted from all groups eventually, but it would take a good bit of consistent effort on their part.

MindTrigger

The main issue is that the market is much larger now, and the vast majority of people playing these MMOs are either new players, or they came into the market while WoW was popular.  In other words, all they know are solo-friendly casual MMO games.  They know little or nothing of what a real RPG is, let alone what RP is.  They have played games where their characters are simple, and over powered.  They have played games where their hands are held through the entire experience.

They simply don't know anything else.  Hopefully this will change when some of these hybrid games start hitting the market over the next few years.

I came to MMORPG games from hardcore competitive FPS gaming.  You might think that would mean I would love PvP, which is true, but I found out years ago that I also love the social and non-combat aspects of these games, including crafting, entertaining, science, and whatever else is offered besides combat.  The majority of MMO gamers today haven't been exposed to anything deeper.  This is also one reason why we all fight over what an MMORPG is around here.  Some of us have a much larger definition with more expectations than others do.

StonesDK

Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar
I think it's really pretty simple. The more people who are playing games; the more likely you are to encounter unsavory individuals.

I think it's much simpler than that. No consequences and it's open game for everyone

Leiloni

Originally posted by StonesDK

Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.

 

One thing I remember Aion did was they had a database on their website that allowed you to track down people's name changes and server changes. The community was small enough and the endgame progression heavily reliant on grouping with others in your server, so reputation was important. People generally knew each other and if you tried to name change or server change to get away from a bad rep, people could track that on the website and continue to ignore you. I thought that was great.

 

I do like that idea and think new games need to add that in as well as other forms of accountability. Make people accountable for their actions just like in real life - you don't have jerks cursing at you all day in real life and doing other things to make you miserable, because there are consequences for that. Online games need to be the same way. Make a good community an important part of the game. Encourage player interactions, and positive ones at that. It's the 2nd M in MMORPG and one of the most essential parts of it. Yes people should join guilds, but an overall positive server and game community is the kind of thing that keeps people playing a game long after they've exhausted all the content, or when there are bugs and balance issues for Devs to work out, etc. Players can overlook a lot of stuff in a game and still have fun as long as they have good people to play with. I don't know why game companies don't realize how important a community is to a healthy game.

thinktank001

Originally posted by BearKnight

I've been reading a lot, and experiencing...A LOT, of anti-social gamers recently in newer titles. Specifically in Rift, Neverwinter, and SWTOR when I gave them a test-drive. 

 

By anti-social, I mean PUG groups that act worse than your creepy next-door neighbor whom always yells at you about your cat running around your apartment at odd hours of the night. 

 

I'm used to PUG groups being fun & enjoyable from previous titles like EQ1, SWG, AC1, AC2, etc etc. It was all about socializing, getting to meet new people, learning how to play classes better because that one magician could solo 9 mobs at once that were 3 levels above him, etc.

 

Nowadays if I EVER do a "pickup group" I'm left with mute ninja-looting immature children whom scoff at the thought of using real words rather than short abbreviated statements such as "Nope LOL", "u Mad?", or [insert expletives as an adjective followed by your instead of you're].

 

Instead of being nostalgic for gameplay of the past I'm starting to become nostalgic for the communities of the past .

 

-Bear

 

 

 

MMORPGs are being developed considerably different and don't allow time for players to socialize.   There is also the increased usage of verbal communication software.    

 

IMHO, this is probably the next big leap in MMOs.  A successful integration of verbal communication.

tawess

There is no real surge per se... I was there during the b-net era and the % of pants-on-head stupid was about the same back then as i remember it. It was just that the total community was about 10-15% of what it is today so you are more likely to run in to an a-hat these days.

 

Now ofc we as humans (and i'd guess most other sentient beings) do have a lot easier to remember the really good and the really bad things that happens, and bad things being the strongest of those. So a weekend of gaming might leave a imprint of about 20% split in to 5% good and 15% bad. The rest is lost to the void pretty much due to being neither good nor bad.

That is why we are more inclined to remember bad PUG's then both good pugs and average pugs.

 

With that being said i can agree to the environment becoming more charged and competitive and that is known to bring out the worst in people (like parents shouting abuse at the opposing team in a little-league match or even going so far as to physically abuse referees and other parents)  and that is something that we will need to deal with before we have our own firms and supporters beating on each other over a starcraft match.

VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by StonesDK
People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences

 

 

Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.

 

I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can

 

---

Things have changed, but blacklisting isn't the reason why. There were thousands of people on a server to play with. Even "back in the day" there were more people than any person could effectively keep track of. It's just not feasible that everyone on the server could remember and keep track of all the people that should not be allowed to group. If someone got blacklisted from one group, they could just move to another group. I suppose it's possible they could get blacklisted from all groups eventually, but it would take a good bit of consistent effort on their part.

 

That was my sense as well.  While I"m sure that some people did keep lists it was never big enough to make a difference.  In EQ you would see people trashing someone else and then both people in a few days would have new and nice gear. 

Blacklists just didn't make a difference. They may not be able to join one group but there were a hundred more waiting.

StonesDK

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by StonesDK
People used to be dependent on each other for advancement, which put them on their best behavior. Names were remembered and people were blacklisted which could cripple you, if you wanted to experience end game. In EQ people would for the most part be stationary for a long time so if you had a bad rep, getting a spot on a list would be nearly impossible. Bad behavior had consequences

 

 

Today nobody remembers your name and even if they did, you can just plop down a little cash for a name change or a server move. Nobody cares.

 

I don't necessarily think mentalities has changed. Games today just enables people to be themselves. Those like yourself, wanting a social experience get them from guilds instead and avoid the rabble as much as they can

---

Things have changed, but blacklisting isn't the reason why. There were thousands of people on a server to play with. Even "back in the day" there were more people than any person could effectively keep track of.

 

It happened frequently. Back then you didn't have 50 guilds all doing raid content. You had a handful. I even remember a few guilds that were formed by bad apples because they couldn't get an invite to any of the key guilds that did content nobody else did. You see the top end content were only done by a small group of people. Not half the server and people talked and shared their bad experiences. If somebody stole something then it was a huge deal. Not like today where you are told to shut up if you mentioned being ninja'd from

 

The lower levels were a bit easier but again, because it took longer to advance, people didn't just race through, There weren't infinite group spots where one could hide. You would often come across the same people in your level bracket.

 

I guess you and I just have much different experiences with EQ. I wouldn't even try to argue this point if I didn't see it with my own eyes. Hell I even personally know people who had to re-roll. A poor mans namechange

therealeasy

ive always been mostly anti social in mmos, except to people who earn my friendship and trust, the best thing about good mmo is you arent forced to be a carebear, i play mmo to compete with other players not team with them, i want to meet interesting people, and kill them

Bladestrom

Stagnation and unhappy players is causing anti social behaviour. On top of that you have addicted players refusing to admit to themselves that they are not enjoying their mmorg gaming experience.

Fusion

Answer to OP's question: World of Warcraft. Pre-WoW (when MMORPG's were a niche) most if not all gamers joined MMORPG's because of the community as much as the gaming aspect or even mostly because of the community aspect.

Axehilt

I still love PUGs in WOW (and RIFT too, last I played.)

Neverwinter's problem is if you have weak loot policing you create drama situations.  It's further compounded by the items in question being unidentified (so you don't know before you roll whether you're rolling for something significantly below you.)

SWTOR's problems were (at launch) a piss-poor LFG system, and conversations in groups harming grouping flow.

If you want to socialize, you socialize (join a guild; add some friends; run dungeons and raids with them.) If you want to group solo, you're going to have a solo group sort of experience -- and if the game isn't equipped to handle that (such as the problems mentioned above) then it's a design problem.

Ozivois

PUGs starting being anti-social when they introduced match-making systems to MMO's. auto-formed groups means no filtering. The more automatic they make social elements like grouping and raiding, the more anti-social the game becomes.  The same goes for the "dynamic" content of public quests and public encounters (in RIFT, the rifts or zone events). Since there is no need for socializing for these occurrences this content does not promote nor provide very much social interact at all.

Unfortunately, games that require more social effort will always have more down time and less action than the rest. This tradeoff makes it a tough call and will more gamers demanding more action rather than more social you can see where we are heading.

waynejr2

I have noticed in World of Tanks of late a number of people who seem to be playing the game to have a social life.  They bring in their whatever chit chat when they should be focusing on winning the game/killing the enemy.  They often die early which leads to more dialog in the chat panel that should be used to coordinate information.

The same goes with running instances.  I don't care to know about your family life in an instance run.  Nor do I want to hear a list of what you think the game should change to make it correct.  Etc.

IMO, there is also the path of least resistance.  We are running this through a lfd tool, we won't see each other again.  Loot systems (not all games) tend to allow everyone to grab anything they can without regard to what someone might really need for their character.

Where is the incentive to be more social in LFD runs? 

Bladestrom

Note 'no need to be social' is different from being ANTI social. It's the latter that is fouling the nest.

Wizardry

Blame the developers,they started creating this type of game play way back with WOW.

FFXI  was all about PUG groups,geesh before my friends got into the game,i spent every night with random Japanese gamer's and you know what,they were amazing people ,very friendly.

Also Square Enix put in the effort to create a language translator,no other game has put any effort into the social aspect.So not only was i able to do random with JPN,i was able to converse with them,it was great.

Games now i see exactly what the OP sees,just players running around like mad men,nothing organized what so ever,just zerg attacks and run at anything that moves.It seems i guess those that entered this genre since Wow are used to it and all they know however for myself it is really bad gaming and not fun at all.

TheKraut

MMOs are the fast food version of what they used to be. The lifespan of a person playing a game constantly used to be well over a year due to slow leveling, amount of grinding and the depth of content. Now, you can max level in a few days and everyone runs the same boring instances for the same gear to do the same instanced raids where throwing bodies into the instance is #1.

You used to have to keep somewhat of a reputation as word got around if you were good/bad/sucked/stupid and guilds wouldn't accept you or promptly spit you out to a life of PUGs. Did something very unsavory? A post about you went up on the official or unofficial forums; do something awe inspiring and you became a server legend.

Now its just a bunch of people racing towards a scripted endgame where everyone gets the same trophy. Then they move on to the next game with a different themed scripted endgame. All in all, there is no community anymore. It's all instanced, its all scripted, its all bullshit and there are no consequences because you didn't build anything and put so much time into something you would be worried about losing it.

Sovrath

I would say the genre has just attracted a "different" type of gamer than those who first started playing these games.

Just a different group of people.

therealeasy

Yes its a good point, gamers today did not play the original Prince of Persia when they were young, they would not be able to progress past the first fight let alone beat the game, everything is hold-my-hand easy mode everybody-wins

VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by therealeasy
Yes its a good point, gamers today did not play the original Prince of Persia when they were young, they would not be able to progress past the first fight let alone beat the game, everything is hold-my-hand easy mode everybody-wins

 I'm sure they could, I'm sure many of them were around during that time.  Many just didn't want to because they didn't find them fun.