in the old days of MMOs I think the majority of players used the game as their social life. They were mostly the people that got called nerds and geeks at school and had no real life outside the games. They were anti-social outside of gaming.
So, they found people in games to be their friends and it felt like a real virtual world to them. Log in each day talk for hours with friends in the game about the game and life and form long lasting friendships in the game
Nowadays everyone plays MMOS. So, the majority of the people playing also have social lives and friends in their day to day life at school, work, home.
Not many have time to sit and chat a long time to strangers. They want to just game and play and do as much as they can in the short time they have to play. If you use voice chat in game I think more people would be social also. They just dont like typing it all out.
People don't enjoy a dungeon lasting over an hour now, in the old days they could last 4+ hours. People want to solo 90% of content today, before it was around 50/50 at least.
The players of today aren't anti social, they just dont want to waste time typing to strangers since they have friends and people to talk to all day outside of game IMO.
I have noticed in World of Tanks of late a number of people who seem to be playing the game to have a social life. They bring in their whatever chit chat when they should be focusing on winning the game/killing the enemy. They often die early which leads to more dialog in the chat panel that should be used to coordinate information.
The same goes with running instances. I don't care to know about your family life in an instance run. Nor do I want to hear a list of what you think the game should change to make it correct. Etc.
IMO, there is also the path of least resistance. We are running this through a lfd tool, we won't see each other again. Loot systems (not all games) tend to allow everyone to grab anything they can without regard to what someone might really need for their character.
Where is the incentive to be more social in LFD runs?
pardon me but that is the anti social behavior. you just want to shut the **** up. and rush and if it dont happen as fast as you want you ruin the run for others.
Honestly? I blame "civilization" and the removal of "survival of the fittest" allowing every inbred person to continue to multiply. Hence you get a lower quality human being generation after generation. At least till some civilization collapses and the slate gets wiped clean again. Disturbing but honest answer. Applies to most issues today.In addition, games cater more and more to anti-socials. Only accelerating the issue.
Oh I get it! We antisocials are the peak of humanity and must be driven from video games so that we will go out and breed, therefore ensuring the fitness of the human gene pool. Right? That's what you're saying, right? Right?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I Think the words agressive and sociopathic behaviour and or immotional immature behaviour would have been more suiting in describing this issue. Personally I dont mind antisocial people as they dont make noise. I am not that much of a chit chatting guy myself, and can be goaldriven in MMO's as well, that however does not translate into me being an agressive idiot that kick somebody or verbally assult some random person (a 10 year old for instance). I hate arrogance and I have hated it since my young days, it is a threat to what we call good. If you happen to belive in good and bad. So can you kill the monster without becomming it?
I do believe that things related to our culture plays a role in this, long workhours long workweek, less time for quality upbringing. The excessive focus on career, our own lifeprojects that society constructs in a signicant way, gives less meaningfullness to the ideology and practice of family - the most basic and important social construction? I dont like where this is going.
I also agree that gamemechanics, as described recently in this post, helps bring in the trash.
I have noticed in World of Tanks of late a number of people who seem to be playing the game to have a social life. They bring in their whatever chit chat when they should be focusing on winning the game/killing the enemy. They often die early which leads to more dialog in the chat panel that should be used to coordinate information.
The same goes with running instances. I don't care to know about your family life in an instance run. Nor do I want to hear a list of what you think the game should change to make it correct. Etc.
IMO, there is also the path of least resistance. We are running this through a lfd tool, we won't see each other again. Loot systems (not all games) tend to allow everyone to grab anything they can without regard to what someone might really need for their character.
Where is the incentive to be more social in LFD runs?
pardon me but that is the anti social behavior. you just want to shut the **** up. and rush and if it dont happen as fast as you want you ruin the run for others.
Originally posted by khameleon in the old days of MMOs I think the majority of players used the game as their social life. They were mostly the people that got called nerds and geeks at school and had no real life outside the games. They were anti-social outside of gaming.So, they found people in games to be their friends and it felt like a real virtual world to them. Log in each day talk for hours with friends in the game about the game and life and form long lasting friendships in the gameNowadays everyone plays MMOS. So, the majority of the people playing also have social lives and friends in their day to day life at school, work, home.Not many have time to sit and chat a long time to strangers. They want to just game and play and do as much as they can in the short time they have to play. If you use voice chat in game I think more people would be social also. They just dont like typing it all out.People don't enjoy a dungeon lasting over an hour now, in the old days they could last 4+ hours. People want to solo 90% of content today, before it was around 50/50 at least.The players of today aren't anti social, they just dont want to waste time typing to strangers since they have friends and people to talk to all day outside of game IMO.
I don't think it's just 'normal' people who are spending time socializing outside of the games. Those people who were socializing in the games are doing it too. They're on Facebook, Twitter or Google+ (haha).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Chuckanar Lack of corpse runs had caused this.
Loved that
It's all the devs fault!...not.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I watched my brother play PUGs in Pandaria and it was nauseating to watch. Everyone is an asshole, everyone is the greatest player ever not to mention that a 6 year old could play that game now, and as soon as its over everyone just leaves immediately. It just seemed so shallow and not what I remember an MMO being.
This is all true but this topic is not about whether it's bad or not. It's more about whether it has gotten worse and why.
Cross-server LFG in WOW has been around for many years and, yes, it creates an environment where it's easy to be anti-social or an ass without many consequences. But in 2013, using the same system with the same problems, it feels a lot worse to me than it did 3 years ago (the last time I was there.)
IMHO, this is a reflection of society in general. It has become conventional wisdom that if you're being selfish and aggressive you're being "real" and if you're being polite and helpful you're being "fake." This is reflected in movies, TV, pop music, etc. So why would anyone think MMOS are exempt?
I disagree completely.
I don't believe it to be a reflection of society. I believe the increase over the past couple years is because MMO Producers (the real yes/no'ers on a game) are catering to ultra-casuals who want no responsibilities tied to their characters.
One of the features I've noticed is a primary carrier of anti-social behavior is the LF-Dungeon tool. It's a simple button that allows you automated group matching without having to know or be nice to anyone for the group to succeed. Anti-social at its core, and a good reason to never include it in any other products on the market.
You can disagree all you want but you're still wrong. Which part of using an example of my own impression of the very same game, WOW, 3 years ago vs. now confuses you? Same LFG tool then and now but many more asshats now... but it's the LFG tool that does it? Yeah right.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Gnarv The question You all should be asking is how to make ways to avoid these apes, I realize I, making this claim, insult the spicies of apes, and for this I am truely sorry and apologize to all apes. I hold no grudge against apes. We do however need efficient tools to wrid our games of these aggressive primates once and for all. Only with the backing of the devs these lesser beings can be singled out and punished properly. I am tired of having to seek out my happy place while bending for the soap, turning the other cheek, or trying by acting kind to reinforce good behaviour. I believe it is time for using the axe, sticks are overrated.
Or you can just quit.
I hear that works in real life as well.
nah ... we are talking about games.
it is not that hard to hit the "quit" button when you have a bad group.
But even in games there are different levels of "quit." There is group quit, guild quit and game quit. Just like there is job quit, friend quit and life quit. And there's always the "why should I quit? you quit" option.
But back on topic... the group member kick option in WOW has been around for a long time. A couple of months back when I went back to WOW for a quick visit, I found that it's being used, in my own unscientific estimation, in about 50% of PUGs I was in... this is much more often than I remember. I've also seen the deliberate wipe followed by "hahahaha I wiped you!" used much more often than I remember... things are different.
Yeah .. so it is working.
Just kick whoever you don't like, or quit the group.
To be succinct, I agree with those who suggest that it's a change in the culture. My generation grew up with pretty limited faceless socialization. For many kids today, it's the standard way to interact with others. Many are afraid of socializing even online just because of all the vitriol out there. Online interaction allows them to avoid conflict--not face it.
You can disagree all you want but you're still wrong.
Ah, the essence of open-minded mutual rapport.
(Ahm just teasin')
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
in the old days of MMOs I think the majority of players used the game as their social life. They were mostly the people that got called nerds and geeks at school and had no real life outside the games. They were anti-social outside of gaming.
So, they found people in games to be their friends and it felt like a real virtual world to them. Log in each day talk for hours with friends in the game about the game and life and form long lasting friendships in the game
Nowadays everyone plays MMOS. So, the majority of the people playing also have social lives and friends in their day to day life at school, work, home.
Not many have time to sit and chat a long time to strangers. They want to just game and play and do as much as they can in the short time they have to play. If you use voice chat in game I think more people would be social also. They just dont like typing it all out.
People don't enjoy a dungeon lasting over an hour now, in the old days they could last 4+ hours. People want to solo 90% of content today, before it was around 50/50 at least.
The players of today aren't anti social, they just dont want to waste time typing to strangers since they have friends and people to talk to all day outside of game IMO.
GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!
pardon me but that is the anti social behavior. you just want to shut the **** up. and rush and if it dont happen as fast as you want you ruin the run for others.
Oh I get it! We antisocials are the peak of humanity and must be driven from video games so that we will go out and breed, therefore ensuring the fitness of the human gene pool. Right? That's what you're saying, right? Right?I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I Think the words agressive and sociopathic behaviour and or immotional immature behaviour would have been more suiting in describing this issue. Personally I dont mind antisocial people as they dont make noise. I am not that much of a chit chatting guy myself, and can be goaldriven in MMO's as well, that however does not translate into me being an agressive idiot that kick somebody or verbally assult some random person (a 10 year old for instance). I hate arrogance and I have hated it since my young days, it is a threat to what we call good. If you happen to belive in good and bad. So can you kill the monster without becomming it?
I do believe that things related to our culture plays a role in this, long workhours long workweek, less time for quality upbringing. The excessive focus on career, our own lifeprojects that society constructs in a signicant way, gives less meaningfullness to the ideology and practice of family - the most basic and important social construction? I dont like where this is going.
I also agree that gamemechanics, as described recently in this post, helps bring in the trash.
I like you, we should be friends Faxnadu.
I don't think it's just 'normal' people who are spending time socializing outside of the games. Those people who were socializing in the games are doing it too. They're on Facebook, Twitter or Google+ (haha).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Loved that
It's all the devs fault!...not.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You can disagree all you want but you're still wrong. Which part of using an example of my own impression of the very same game, WOW, 3 years ago vs. now confuses you? Same LFG tool then and now but many more asshats now... but it's the LFG tool that does it? Yeah right.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yeah .. so it is working.
Just kick whoever you don't like, or quit the group.
Ah, the essence of open-minded mutual rapport.
(Ahm just teasin')
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.