i agree i rather have a good p2p game then a f2p where somehow the gameplay will need to revolve around micro transactions (cause lets face it they wanna make money). rather have all the features for everyone and no pay to win or anything even close to it with a p2p system then previous mention shit you usually get with f2p even if it probably wont be as extreme as i said with pay to win its still gonna do more harm then good for me.
I don't want Wildstar to be free to play. I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's. Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.
I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why. 20 bucks a month... sound fair? Please give me back sub based gaming.
I agree but the sub's have always been just 15 a month. No need to raise it :P
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I am with you on this one. I prefer a sub to weed out some of the @#$hats that tend to ruin games. Won't stop all of them but two barriers to entry take out a good chunk. As far as I know, aside from guild wars, every game has launched with a box fee + sub
i doubt wildstar will go b2p route, and i dont see how f2p route helps them at all, they are focusing on endgame content and already promised monthly content updates. monthly story dungeons
there are 3 reasons for not playing f2p games
1: far more expensive than p2p
2 : selling advantages
3 : no new content in sight ever
personally my biggest would be third, mmo need content content updates or go screw yourself
rift is going f2p, might be first pve endgame focused mmorpg to do so ( well there was lotro, but it wasnt all that big on endgame pve, sure there was/is one ), we will see how rift does, but they said they will sell gear which is just so wrong for all rift stands , they got so many different ways to obtain gear , and even if cash shop gear wont be as good its still wrong, i hope its more a long the lines of wow leveling gear, gear that adds exp bonus and scales with levels, generally weaker than normal blues you get from dungeon but better than greens and always scales with gear, removes need for gear upgrades and reenchanting , wasnt easy to get and only good for multiple alts ,
anyway i dont see wildstar going p2p, it have enough hype to know it will sell well, and will retain subs, if it goes f2p in a year or so it will retain sub, but by then it will failed for all it stands, endgame focused mmorpg, noone would call wow endgame focused game as wow is far too lazy with updates, but its only mmorpg apart rift that you could slap such tag , so hopefully wildstar wont fail at retaining players
Originally posted by Smikis Originally posted by YalexyI'd like it to be subscription aswell, but without box- or expansion-pack prices.Simply let me download the client with a 7 day trial and if I like it then they can have my $15/month.Works with EvE, should work with any other solid MMO aswell.
eve used to have client price tag, and no doesnt work or any mmorpg that have content updates, shity mmorpgs doesnt count
When I started playing EvE in 2004 there was no initial price. I simply started with the trial and then paid $15/month.
And as of today you don't have a full box-price aswell. First month (aka client-activation) only costs $20 nstead of $15. And yeah, I'd be willing to pay those $5 for the client if the game is good.
And EvE Online has 2 expansions per year, not charging anything, and they have the most expensive server for a MMO to maintain aswell.
I have one source as to why this game will be F2P.... Housing.
So far there is no in game store or any of the usual micro-transaction mechanics in the BETA builds, GW2 had the store quite early so does every other F2P title.
All of the housing items so far are crafted, drops, or quest rewards so although they can have a fluff store ala WoW it won't be their main source of income.
An F2P title needs much more than some book shelves and tables to generate profit from a store, so far i don't see any hint of that being in the game.
I have one source as to why this game will be F2P.... Housing.
So far there is no in game store or any of the usual micro-transaction mechanics in the BETA builds, GW2 had the store quite early so does every other F2P title.
All of the housing items so far are crafted, drops, or quest rewards so although they can have a fluff store ala WoW it won't be their main source of income.
An F2P title needs much more than some book shelves and tables to generate profit from a store, so far i don't see any hint of that being in the game.
Go on the assumptions that any store that they have prepared for the game are not showing in the Public Closed Beta. Instead assume that there's one in the In House Closed Beta. Why is that? Because the public, much like yourself, cannot be trusted to keep their traps shut!
Why would they want to advertise something that no matter how miniscule the effect on the game would be, still would bring public outcries and bad press?
Questions:
How many races are currently in the closed Beta? Probably not all them, including the unrevealed ones.
How many character slots does one have during this closed Beta? I'd guess 2-5 at most.
And how about the number of bank/bag slots available? I'm sure there's some restriction there too.
Get my point? Things are hidden from the Beta Testers for a reason. This game WILL have a cash shop with the bare minimum standards of character slots, bank expansions, bag expansions, character customization post-creation, name changes, and so on. It may take them a while to get them all in there, sometimes 5-12 months, but they'll sure be in there no matter what.
I hear what your saying, but I agree with the op on this one. Obviously there are plans for a cash shop, to make an mmo without one these days is financial suicide. But I am hoping it is an if all else fails cash shop. Personally I hope they get enough subs, provided their game is fun, to keep the developers and investors happy enough that it does not affect game play. Sure I can budget enough money to multi box and rule in pvp or power level, I don't because it's just no fun.
You're a fool....a fool's fool, to believe that subscriptions have "perks and fun stuff" compared to non-sub games. Compare the monthly content updates of a game like Guild Wars 2 to a game like WoW. There's far more content updates in an not-so-polished, less than a year old game than there have been for an 8 year old, well polished game. Why is that? Where's the value in the subscription based game if a non-sub game can push out more content updates in a shorter amount of time for just the cost of the box as entry.
GW2 is a bad example of a B2P game. They launched incomplete with features people expect in modern MMOs. They don't have dueling, dungeon finder, Battleground finder, UI customization etc. It was probably due to their limited funds and payment model.
GW2 was launched with 8 dungeons and 1 PvP sPvP mode. That is extremely behind most modern MMOs, including Tera which had 16 at launch. Even if GW2 released a dungeon a month it was behind in "content". But their "content" has mostly been bug fixes.
If WildStar can pull of WoW/Rift style content with a B2P model I would be suprised. It isn't easy funding a team that can do things like 20 and 40 man raid updates with those models.
Wtf is wrong with you? Like I swear people these days...
By the way Rift is going F2P and also GW2 is already doinng that shit spite your hate for the game.
It can be done and it can damn sure be done without 15 dollars to, need a reality check ASAP.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I will never pay for a subscription to any game ever again in life. Not the way these developers and publishers move.
I would rather buy a game upfront, and purchase "DLC" content and cosmetic items as I desire.
All these games with these subscriptions or dishonest cash shops, fucking off game play to annoy players into buying currency... they're no good.
Developers should be selling content for their game, and making good cosmetic things WORTH peoples purchases. Anything else is uncivilized. Full stop.
The problem is that DLC can never be produced fast enough and it will require the game to be heavily instanced ontop of splitting the player base.
And no MMO can survive on cosmetic items not unless you make all base items look like brown robes and then you break one of the most important pillars in an RPG which is customization.
Games like LoL can do that since they are not RPG's, they don't add new content champions or skins do not split the player base.
We've seen what items work in MMO's and those items are breaking the game, GW2 is the best case scenario and it's still quite bad, and games like NWN are simply a scam I've seen many people spending over 200$ in it in a very short while simply because for the most part pretty much every realistically achievable item is locked behind a paywall even drops in instances.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern I'll pay for a box, sure. But I'm having a hard time these days justifying paying rent to play a game I've already purchased.
You did not buy the game, you bought access to a service. Generally said service requires a fee to keep getting access to said service.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
I will never pay for a subscription to any game ever again in life. Not the way these developers and publishers move.
I would rather buy a game upfront, and purchase "DLC" content and cosmetic items as I desire.
All these games with these subscriptions or dishonest cash shops, fucking off game play to annoy players into buying currency... they're no good.
Developers should be selling content for their game, and making good cosmetic things WORTH peoples purchases. Anything else is uncivilized. Full stop.
The problem is that DLC can never be produced fast enough and it will require the game to be heavily instanced ontop of splitting the player base.
And no MMO can survive on cosmetic items not unless you make all base items look like brown robes and then you break one of the most important pillars in an RPG which is customization.
Games like LoL can do that since they are not RPG's, they don't add new content champions or skins do not split the player base.
We've seen what items work in MMO's and those items are breaking the game, GW2 is the best case scenario and it's still quite bad, and games like NWN are simply a scam I've seen many people spending over 200$ in it in a very short while simply because for the most part pretty much every realistically achievable item is locked behind a paywall even drops in instances.
This is exactly why I would never ever in life pay for a subscription for a game again... EVER. If a developer isn't capable of creating new content or cosmetic things enticing enough to purchase as a one off, why would I pay a fee per month?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Originally posted by WhiteLantern I'll pay for a box, sure. But I'm having a hard time these days justifying paying rent to play a game I've already purchased.
So i take it you found a way to NOT pay a monthly Fee to your Cable or Cell phone provider?
After all you paid once so you will not pay monthly right?
Fact is that you paid for the software but for it to work you do need the Company you bought it from to provide the service like the Cell phone or Cable company.
So they make you pay for it.
Honestly i like Monthly subs way more than the F2P models first of all the main focus of all F2P developers is how to make money with the Item Shop.
Sure they will get out new Content and they need to make sure that the players are entertained BUT so does a P2P MMo but the P2P MMO only needs to focus on making the game fun and worth the Money while the F2P ones mainly think about how to milk the players cause without paying players the whole thing doesn't work.
Thats also a point i dislike why would i (and i admit i am a sucker for the Shops) pay someone elses fun?
Cause fact is that without me and all the other paying for stuff from the Item shop all the leeches would not be able to play so for me its like i am giving away my money not only for the game i wanna play but also to make it possible for other people to play.
Its like charity for the needy but instead of supporting something that is worthy of supporting my money supports people who are either way to cheap to spend 15$ a month or just to broke in which case they shouldn't play but get a job anyway.
Maybe i am just an Ass its possible but i just don't like that everytime i spend money on a F2P MMo i support someone not worthy of support.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern I'll pay for a box, sure. But I'm having a hard time these days justifying paying rent to play a game I've already purchased.
So i take it you found a way to NOT pay a monthly Fee to your Cable or Cell phone provider?
After all you paid once so you will not pay monthly right?
Fact is that you paid for the software but for it to work you do need the Company you bought it from to provide the service like the Cell phone or Cable company.
So they make you pay for it.
Honestly i like Monthly subs way more than the F2P models first of all the main focus of all F2P developers is how to make money with the Item Shop.
Sure they will get out new Content and they need to make sure that the players are entertained BUT so does a P2P MMo but the P2P MMO only needs to focus on making the game fun and worth the Money while the F2P ones mainly think about how to milk the players cause without paying players the whole thing doesn't work.
Thats also a point i dislike why would i (and i admit i am a sucker for the Shops) pay someone elses fun?
Cause fact is that without me and all the other paying for stuff from the Item shop all the leeches would not be able to play so for me its like i am giving away my money not only for the game i wanna play but also to make it possible for other people to play.
Its like charity for the needy but instead of supporting something that is worthy of supporting my money supports people who are either way to cheap to spend 15$ a month or just to broke in which case they shouldn't play but get a job anyway.
Maybe i am just an Ass its possible but i just don't like that everytime i spend money on a F2P MMo i support someone not worthy of support.
There's quite a big difference between what you're saying and what the other said... He's not continually paying a fee for the phone... He's paying a fee to use the wireless service.
Comments
Box price, DLC, cosmetic shop, housing decorations shop.
I agree but the sub's have always been just 15 a month. No need to raise it :P
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I'd like it to be subscription aswell, but without box- or expansion-pack prices.
Simply let me download the client with a 7 day trial and if I like it then they can have my $15/month.
Works with EvE, should work with any other solid MMO aswell.
i doubt wildstar will go b2p route, and i dont see how f2p route helps them at all, they are focusing on endgame content and already promised monthly content updates. monthly story dungeons
there are 3 reasons for not playing f2p games
1: far more expensive than p2p
2 : selling advantages
3 : no new content in sight ever
personally my biggest would be third, mmo need content content updates or go screw yourself
rift is going f2p, might be first pve endgame focused mmorpg to do so ( well there was lotro, but it wasnt all that big on endgame pve, sure there was/is one ), we will see how rift does, but they said they will sell gear which is just so wrong for all rift stands , they got so many different ways to obtain gear , and even if cash shop gear wont be as good its still wrong, i hope its more a long the lines of wow leveling gear, gear that adds exp bonus and scales with levels, generally weaker than normal blues you get from dungeon but better than greens and always scales with gear, removes need for gear upgrades and reenchanting , wasnt easy to get and only good for multiple alts ,
anyway i dont see wildstar going p2p, it have enough hype to know it will sell well, and will retain subs, if it goes f2p in a year or so it will retain sub, but by then it will failed for all it stands, endgame focused mmorpg, noone would call wow endgame focused game as wow is far too lazy with updates, but its only mmorpg apart rift that you could slap such tag , so hopefully wildstar wont fail at retaining players
eve used to have client price tag, and no doesnt work or any mmorpg that have content updates, shity mmorpgs doesnt count
I have one source as to why this game will be F2P.... Housing.
When I started playing EvE in 2004 there was no initial price. I simply started with the trial and then paid $15/month.
And as of today you don't have a full box-price aswell. First month (aka client-activation) only costs $20 nstead of $15. And yeah, I'd be willing to pay those $5 for the client if the game is good.
And EvE Online has 2 expansions per year, not charging anything, and they have the most expensive server for a MMO to maintain aswell.
So far there is no in game store or any of the usual micro-transaction mechanics in the BETA builds, GW2 had the store quite early so does every other F2P title.
All of the housing items so far are crafted, drops, or quest rewards so although they can have a fluff store ala WoW it won't be their main source of income.
An F2P title needs much more than some book shelves and tables to generate profit from a store, so far i don't see any hint of that being in the game.
Go on the assumptions that any store that they have prepared for the game are not showing in the Public Closed Beta. Instead assume that there's one in the In House Closed Beta. Why is that? Because the public, much like yourself, cannot be trusted to keep their traps shut!
Why would they want to advertise something that no matter how miniscule the effect on the game would be, still would bring public outcries and bad press?
Questions:
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Wtf is wrong with you? Like I swear people these days...
By the way Rift is going F2P and also GW2 is already doinng that shit spite your hate for the game.
It can be done and it can damn sure be done without 15 dollars to, need a reality check ASAP.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I will never pay for a subscription to any game ever again in life. Not the way these developers and publishers move.
I would rather buy a game upfront, and purchase "DLC" content and cosmetic items as I desire.
All these games with these subscriptions or dishonest cash shops, fucking off game play to annoy players into buying currency... they're no good.
Developers should be selling content for their game, and making good cosmetic things WORTH peoples purchases. Anything else is uncivilized. Full stop.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The problem is that DLC can never be produced fast enough and it will require the game to be heavily instanced ontop of splitting the player base.
And no MMO can survive on cosmetic items not unless you make all base items look like brown robes and then you break one of the most important pillars in an RPG which is customization.
Games like LoL can do that since they are not RPG's, they don't add new content champions or skins do not split the player base.
We've seen what items work in MMO's and those items are breaking the game, GW2 is the best case scenario and it's still quite bad, and games like NWN are simply a scam I've seen many people spending over 200$ in it in a very short while simply because for the most part pretty much every realistically achievable item is locked behind a paywall even drops in instances.
You did not buy the game, you bought access to a service. Generally said service requires a fee to keep getting access to said service.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Same here.
I'd be OK with even a higher sub than the usual to not have a cash shop.
This is exactly why I would never ever in life pay for a subscription for a game again... EVER. If a developer isn't capable of creating new content or cosmetic things enticing enough to purchase as a one off, why would I pay a fee per month?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So i take it you found a way to NOT pay a monthly Fee to your Cable or Cell phone provider?
After all you paid once so you will not pay monthly right?
Fact is that you paid for the software but for it to work you do need the Company you bought it from to provide the service like the Cell phone or Cable company.
So they make you pay for it.
Honestly i like Monthly subs way more than the F2P models first of all the main focus of all F2P developers is how to make money with the Item Shop.
Sure they will get out new Content and they need to make sure that the players are entertained BUT so does a P2P MMo but the P2P MMO only needs to focus on making the game fun and worth the Money while the F2P ones mainly think about how to milk the players cause without paying players the whole thing doesn't work.
Thats also a point i dislike why would i (and i admit i am a sucker for the Shops) pay someone elses fun?
Cause fact is that without me and all the other paying for stuff from the Item shop all the leeches would not be able to play so for me its like i am giving away my money not only for the game i wanna play but also to make it possible for other people to play.
Its like charity for the needy but instead of supporting something that is worthy of supporting my money supports people who are either way to cheap to spend 15$ a month or just to broke in which case they shouldn't play but get a job anyway.
Maybe i am just an Ass its possible but i just don't like that everytime i spend money on a F2P MMo i support someone not worthy of support.
There's quite a big difference between what you're saying and what the other said... He's not continually paying a fee for the phone... He's paying a fee to use the wireless service.