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MMOs do not work in the United States
ThomasN7
87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
Finally a publisher finally gets it. Take a look and I fully agree with them.
As evidence of the difficulty of getting an MMO off the ground in the US, Zelnick pointed to Blizzard Entertainment's recent announcement of a significant overhaul to its next-gen MMO Titan.
"A couple of our competitors have found out that through very, very expensive lessons--one of our competitors just recently announced they're restarting an MMO project in the US," Zelnick said. "We look at it and say 'How many MMOs have ever been successful in the US?' Two. World of Warcraft and EverQuest. That's kind of a bad slugging percentage."
Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/take-two-mmos-dont-work-in-the-us-6409047
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't agree. The problem is that they are looking to WoW as a measure of success. WoW was an anomaly: a once in a lifetime "perfect storm" situation. Apart from WoW, any MMO that recoups its initial investment and makes a modest profit should be labeled a "success". Also, look at the two examples they are using: WoW and EQ. Early pioneers when the genre was new to players and the market wasn't as saturated with competition.
If they don't want to make MMOs for the US market... fine, it's their choice. However, I think the reasons given are a sad excuse...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Ok I see your point but that is really nitpicking because when you look at the entire genre as a whole only WoW and Everquest really had major success. The rest are pretty much fighting for the remaing scraps from the table Blizzard and Sony left behind which according to the article a bad slugging percentage. Couldn't agree more.
I'd say DAoC was a success...people still say it has the best pvp in MMOs...and I agree.
Not to mention these on a lesser level of success:
FFXI
Lotro
Rift
Edit: As for defining success:
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
You're aware there are more games that clearly outsold EQ, right?
Which brings us back around to Kyleran's question. You're applying some standard other than subs or dollars, so what is it?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
that article is pretty lacking. gotta love it when professionals make broad sweeping statements like that and offer no meat as to why they are saying it or why it is true.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Yeah, says a guy whose only qualification is that he was an intern at Gamespot as a writer before... becoming a full time writer for Gamespot.
Complete and total garbage.
Ok, I'll bite. What's 'my game'?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I would say eve has likely had at least as much if not more success than everquest. I would say GW2 is successful, though that is going to vary depending on what you consider a success. That isn't nitpicking. If a game is profitable at 10k subs and has 15k subs, then that would be successful. Saying successful without defining what success is doesn't really mean anything.
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The real point the guy seemed to make he probably didn't even know he made it.
In America it's first place or nothing. EQ was the biggest game of it's time. It was dethroned by wow. No other game has surpassed wow so no other game has ever been successful.
It's a totally moronic way to measure success but it's what he's doing.
Success is making a game people enjoy playing and turns enough profit to keep it going and fund your next project.
I laughed aloud...
However I am a bit curious
LOL there are more successful than that. Blizzard screwed up with Titan, more than likely, so they are back-pedaling. There was LOTRO, GW1, etc as for as successes.
Blizzard's statements are utter nonsense.
I used this link in another thread, it shows how much the MMO market is growing:
http://infographicsmania.com/2012-mmo-games-market-report/
In the US up 14% in 2012 compared to 2011, with 50 million players reported. Not so much a downward trend then...
I'm not sure what Blizzard comments you are talking about. The article quotes someone from Take-Two. Really the only thing Blizzard said was that they were essentially going back to the drawing board with Titan.
Compared to Single Player games I think MMO's are a much better gamble for investors on the whole which is why we are seeing the turning of everything into them. Well if your going to invest in the video game market at all which I think is pretty dumb to start with that is.
Even a "failed" MMO can generate a lot more money than a poor SPG game does unless that SPG is backed by a big name IP and at the high end you have WoW which no other game can even come close to touching the kinds of revenue that game has turned over. WoW kinds of sales and retention is the golden carrot that drives investment into this industry and it's also the primary reason games have sucked so badly over the years since imitation is a lot safer than innovation.
Well let's see...my three longest-played titles; one's that WoW thing, one no longer exists, and one's a MUD.
So...I don't know, either. CoX?Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Is this talking about the MMO market in general in the US or games produced in the US? Because FFXI has been around for over 10 years now and had a pretty good following in North America, despite being primarily a Japanese game. It's also been their most profitable game to date, despite never having 12 million subscribers at any one time, let alone barely 2 million at its peak.
Like others say, success can have multiple meaning, it just depends on the metric in which it's being gauged. In the way the market is these days, any game that's managed to say P2P for 10 years is successful in my book. It's hard for me to think highly of games that start as P2P and then go F2P within a year. There was obviously something lacking in them that people didn't feel they were worth paying for monthly anymore, so it's hard to call them successful. Some games rebound after some time. If some of those games that converted to F2P are still around after 10 years, I'd probably say they're successful since they've managed to make enough money to keep the game running.
If you were to ask me, I think any MMO that's managed to not shut down after 5 years is "successful". Even though it may only have a niche following, it's still alive nonetheless.
I agree completely. The US has a huge mentality problem of being "the best" is all that matters. We Americans don't look at nuance very often, which is also why so much of our entertainment is so blunt...hell look at reality TV.
I would say that a large number of mmos have been successful by various standards.
Asheron's Call is successful to the effect that the game blended Sci-Fi and Fantasy themes and has delivered monthly content patches since '99. Probably the single most lore driven mmo created as well.
DAoC boasted I believe 225k subs at their peak, or was it 250k? It's still hailed as having the best pvp in a mmo. DAoC showed the genre that pvp with a purpose can be a pretty popular idea, and how much we nerds love siege warfare.
EVE has proved that persistence pays off. The game consistently grew from a small population to a very healthy one over the course of the years, and has created a rabid fanbase. Not to mention that player actions really have a true effect on the game as a whole.
Success can be judged in varying degrees. Of course, since it's seemingly MOST SUBS EVAH!!!!!! is the only rule for success, many great mmos get looked over. Ironically, when you see people asking for certain mechanics within a mmo, like housing or player driven economy, those systems already exist in older, less popular, mmos.
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I don't see it as "MMOs don't work in America." I see it as "You don't have to be all that good to make it in Asia." Any old crap can make money in Asia, just so long as it has the five G's: Grind, Gamble, Graphics, Girls and Gank. That formula alone won't work here very well. American audiences want a narrative and context, rather than just G5.
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