Quite simple - they (NP3/AD) don't realize just how much DnL/SoG sucks and they don't expect the reaction from the playerbase that is inevitably going to happen, despite the pre-release hype. Thus why I am waiting with glee for December 8th. It will finally shut up all you uninformed fanbois and slap you with the cold, hard reality of what DnL/SoG is - a collossal failure of the same dimensions as Mourning was. Just that the DnL/AD people are more adept at hiding their failure before release, but the telling signs are already there, as Zippy posted in another thread. I suggest you carefully read Zippy's posts, because so far he has posted a lot of interesting things, which I fully agree with and they are nothing but the truth. I (and probably the other "haters") don't fear the release of SoG/DnL, because it will confirm our points entirely. The fanbois should fear the release, because it will shatter their most intimate dreams of their perfect little MMOG, which DnL never will be.
Although I'm rather cynical about the whole DnL thing these days... I don't understand why you would be "gleeful" that a lot of people will be disappointed and lose money, Inferno. That's just nasty.
Nah, it's the joy of knowing that I and others here are right the whole time, yet facing fanbois of insane proportions every day, fighting an uphill battle against the dumbed down hordes of DnL-fanboyism in the quest to save one or two people from wasting their money on this overhyped excuse of a game. It is with glee that I await the day when I can say: "Told ya so!" Because inevitably, someone will whine about that nobody told them about the true state of the game, while we did tell it the whole time but were ignored. Maybe it can be a lesson for the people trusting in the success of a game they know close to nothing about - don't trust the marketing hype of devs. They want your money primarily. DnL's release will serve as an example what happens when you unquestioningly support a game company, despite knowing better or suspecting that there might be something fishy going on. If people for once would say "No!" to unfinished games and lieing devs, maybe we'd not have to deal with collossal MMOG failures all the time and for once get a game that actually does give us what we want - the perfect MMOG experience.
I am evil. I wanted to play Dark - until I figured out that DnL will fail and I gave up on the plan to rule Ganareth. My current game is City of Villains. I like playing a flame-covered, smoke-dispensing, horned demon
Originally posted by fulmanfu then why do you still linger here other than to be a dik?
People take things way to personally. The idea here is discuss games not take personal attacks at other people.
Many of us have been DnL fans for a longtime and have come to a conclusion that the game is a farce and will be very bad. We offer anyalysis and comparison to other games to support such arguments. I have not seen any anyalsis by the fanboys except blind faith. That being said, I doubt that anyone here actually wants the game to be bad. We all want the same thing a good game. Many of us also feel that one of the biggest impediments to good games is blindless faith by fanboys. Which again ups the emotions. Essentially what many of the naysayers are saying is hey we were where you are now 2 years ago or with another game 5 years ago don't make the same mistakes we made.
So we come here to discuss and share our wisdom not to root against the game. We cannot say discuss DnL openly on the official forums as the mods will not allow it as they only want fanboys there. Like Mourning they have been locking and removing non positive posts in record rates of late. So people come here where there can be a more balanced discussion.
Essentialy we all want the same thing. A good game. There is no reason to get upset at each other. We are all on the same side even if we disagree. I sincerely doubt that there is even one DnL critic on this board who would not be overjoyed if DnL actually turns out to be a good game.
Originally posted by -Inferno- Why do you linger here other than to be a fanboi/-gyrl?
nice try. but find me one post ive ever made praising this game. kthxbye
and yeah i do come here for information or talk about the game, but thats impossible because these trolls who know absolutly nothing except saying ..im not in beta but i know the game.. its impossible to even put up a semi-informative or interesting post without you idiots jumping all over it.
just look at the recent post dakarios put up recently , screenshots facts and whatever.
nice post, some information, nice screenshots. first reply, troll.. not long after , more trolls , more trolls and more trolls.
so yeah its nice you dont like the game and want to warn others(not that i think thats why you come here) but we get the point, let us have at least one thread without you jumping in and acting like an 8 year old who didn't get picked first in kickball
I wonder what exactly makes you think that we don't have any information. There may be a NDA, but that doesn't mean that we are ignorant about the things going on behind the scenes.
Originally posted by Zippy Originally posted by fulmanfu then why do you still linger here other than to be a dik? People take things way to personally. The idea here is discuss games not take personal attacks at other people. Many of us have been DnL fans for a longtime and have come to a conclusion that the game is a farce and will be very bad. We offer anyalysis and comparison to other games to support such arguments. I have not seen any anyalsis by the fanboys except blind faith. That being said, I doubt that anyone here actually wants the game to be bad. We all want the same thing a good game. Many of us also feel that one of the biggest impediments to good games is blindless faith by fanboys. Which again ups the emotions. Essentially what many of the naysayers are saying is hey we were where you are now 2 years ago or with another game 5 years ago don't make the same mistakes we made. So we come here to discuss and share our wisdom not to root against the game. We cannot say discuss DnL openly on the official forums as the mods will not allow it as they only want fanboys there. Like Mourning they have been locking and removing non positive posts in record rates of late. So people come here where there can be a more balanced discussion. Essentialy we all want the same thing. A good game. There is no reason to get upset at each other. We are all on the same side even if we disagree. I sincerely doubt that there is even one DnL critic on this board who would not be overjoyed if DnL actually turns out to be a good game.
so why is it most of the naysayers just troll these boards then? your post was definitely not a troll but that is a rarity. i see waaaaaay more naysayers troll the Dnl forums vs fanboys, please explain that
ive already explained IMO why the naysayers do this in another thread so im not going to repeat myself but it is far more than just "trying to warn people".
if the naysayers want to discuss Dnl that is fine by me but why must they bombard these forums with crap that has been posted 1000 times before? or why must they troll every single thread that is made with the same crap over and over again?
I'm really looking forward to the game, but the fact that they're offering it for free has nothing to do with their confidence in the game. EDIT: It has to do with the numbers of people you're trying to attract.
1. If you release a game for free before you really release the game, you're trying to figure out all the bugs before you have people paying for it so that they're not paying for a piece of crap for a few months until the bugs are all worked out (cough cough EQ2).
2. Most people are so skeptical about games that they probably wouldn't buy the game without a free trial. By releasing this pre-game SoG (Settlers of Ganareth) IMO they don't want to give out a free so-many-day trial so they're doing this instead.
But all-in-all most things that you can try for free, are that way because it attracts more people. Check out some infomercials sometime. They offer all kinds of crap for free just to attract the masses of americans that are like "what that's free? Hell yeah I'll play it"
I.E. Anarchy Online. I play it because it's free. The game is far outdated and way under par as it goes for MMORPG's, but it's free.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
I can't qualify as a DnL h8ter or fanboi, as I am really into another game, but I have been following the evolution of DnL for some time out of personal curiosity. I would like to venture an answer to the original question asked: Why would NPCube release SoG if the weren't confident in their product?
My theory is that the former release date of November (for open beta of DnL) had actually been the result of an ultimatum of DnL's investors. When NPCube realized that they could not release the game at that time, they were faced with an immediate closure of their line of credit, except if they could find some new investors. The solution they chose was to release the current beta as a special offering alongside with some kind of collector's offer that would allow them to raise half a million dollar quickly. This credit probably buys them 6 month, at which point they will be forced to either release what they have at that point, or delay the project once more and find some new investors or shut down the company.
So from my point of view, the release of SoG alongside with the 6 month delay really bears all the hallmarks of a desperate measure from the developers to save the game and the company. I can easily understand that kind of attitude from people that have been investing so much of their time in one project, and I wish them the best.
Originally posted by ukulele I can't qualify as a DnL h8ter or fanboi, as I am really into another game, but I have been following the evolution of DnL for some time out of personal curiosity. I would like to venture an answer to the original question asked: Why would NPCube release SoG if the weren't confident in their product? My theory is that the former release date of November (for open beta of DnL) had actually been the result of an ultimatum of DnL's investors. When NPCube realized that they could not release the game at that time, they were faced with an immediate closure of their line of credit, except if they could find some new investors. The solution they chose was to release the current beta as a special offering alongside with some kind of collector's offer that would allow them to raise half a million dollar quickly. This credit probably buys them 6 month, at which point they will be forced to either release what they have at that point, or delay the project once more and find some new investors or shut down the company.
My theory on the release of SoG is somwwhat similar but different.
NP3 has been doing their best to not release any information to its player base or let its player base play DnL as they know the game is very bad. Unfortunately for them is the playerbase and even the fanboys have been growing quite impatient.
So in comes their plan to release SoG. Bear in mind that SoG has absolutely no features. No weather effects, no crafting, no preofessions at lvl 20, nothing all it is a small part of DnL's world. The way its described SoG sounds like a 2005 version of Pong. The beta leaks have consisently said that DNL has one good point and one asset its world. They have said the world is stunning, seamless and you can see forever. So by releasing SoG they can show off their one asset, appear to be the good guy and better yet the fan boys will say don't worry if SoG stinks its not the real game.
SoG buys them another 6 months with the playerbase and keeps open the hope that they can with enough time make the game fun to play or in the worst case scenario they can still make money releasing a game that no one has ever played or knows nothing about except vague theories. SoG IMHO was really brilliant. NP3 had their backs against the wall and were in a position where they either had to show the public what they have been hiding for the last 5 years or fold up their tent. Instead they have bought themseves another 6 months where they continue to play hide the ball with their fanbsae. Plus they made themselves a quick $500,000 on pre-orders.
Of course all of this are just theories, but I do feel that in the various forums, people have been focusing exclusively on the relationship (or lack thereof) between the developers and the community, while ignoring that there also exists a relationship between investors and developers.
If someone gives you money to do something that you tell them will take 6 months and after 1 year you come back to tell them that it will actually take 2 years more and that you have already spent all the money you got, there is bound to be a trust issue. Well established game publishers realize that this is the cold hard reality of game development, so they take this into account in their original plan, but normal investors might not have that kind of patience nor understanding.
This is also why most game publishers are reticent to fund any developer that doesn't have an established track record of finishing a product within acceptable delays and budget. This is the the unfortunate catch-22 that most wannabe developers face.
Oh man, now people are posting imagined investor ultimatums as the reason for the devs releasing SoG.
What's that saying........... The simplest explanation is usually correct.
So what's more likely:
1. They are releasing SoG to placate their fanbase and keep them hooked until they can finish the final product in time for an April release. The reason they opened preorders in advance of SoG was to pay for the servers and bandwith since SoG is free of charge.
or
2. SoG is just an elaborate scheme to keep their investors happy and pull the wool over the players eyes. The developers realize their game is horrible and want to suck as much money out of people as possible before having to release the actual game, hence the preorders. The developers are also naive enough to think that people won't make up their mind about the quality of DnL based on SoG. If SoG is horrible and fails miserably they will just remind everyone that SoG is NOT DnL and that they should be patient and buy the game in April to see the big improvements. This tatic will be wildly successful and presents no risk of say, I dunno, maybe everyone realizing that SoG is a steaming pile of $hit and not buying DnL in April like they might have had they NOT PLAYED A VERSION OF IT FOR FREE FOR 5 MONTHS.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say scenario 1 is probably closest to the reality of the situation.
Actually, given past experience with MMORPGs, your second scenario seems more likely, Newbert. It was a nice try, though. I am having a hard time remembering ANY game that did not have problems at launch that could have been fixed with a longer beta time. In this, I also mean that I cannot remember a game that was not pressured to realease earlier than they should because of lack of funds. Seeing that DnL has delayed its launch to a year longer than first estimated, there is no doubt in my mind that they are starting to have financial problems. Whether SoG is good or not, and whether DnL is good or not, remains to be seen. But I do not think this was a ploy to astonish players into having 5 months of interest and fun in DnL. I feel it was a way to temporarily appease the impatience of its fanbase and receive the funds they need to HOPEFULLY finish the game.
It is extremely likely that the cause of pre-ordering was a lack of money. The real question is whether or not the money will buy them time enough to save the game.
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Originally posted by Marauder Seeing that DnL has delayed its launch to a year longer than first estimated,
They have delayed their release a little longer than a year. Back in the summer of 2002 they announced a release date of December 2002. If they indeed release in April that will only be 3.5 years late.
Originally posted by MarauderIn this, I also mean that I cannot remember a game that was not pressured to realease earlier than they should because of lack of funds. Seeing that DnL has delayed its launch to a year longer than first estimated, there is no doubt in my mind that they are starting to have financial problems.
You are all over the place here man. You say that games are released earlier as a result of not enough money, and then you state that the delays DnL is suffering is a result of lack of funds? Wouldn't they release early if they were struggling with money?
It is extremely likely that the cause of pre-ordering was a lack of money. The real question is whether or not the money will buy them time enough to save the game.
That is possible. Although, if they were in desperate need of money, why limit the pre-orders to just 8881, when they know they could get more?
Originally posted by MarauderIn this, I also mean that I cannot remember a game that was not pressured to realease earlier than they should because of lack of funds. Seeing that DnL has delayed its launch to a year longer than first estimated, there is no doubt in my mind that they are starting to have financial problems.
You are all over the place here man. You say that games are released earlier as a result of not enough money, and then you state that the delays DnL is suffering is a result of lack of funds? Wouldn't they release early if they were struggling with money?
It is extremely likely that the cause of pre-ordering was a lack of money. The real question is whether or not the money will buy them time enough to save the game.
That is possible. Although, if they were in desperate need of money, why limit the pre-orders to just 8881, when they know they could get more?
It doesn't make sense because it's not true. It's the paranoid fantasy of a bunch of disgruntled fanbois who wanted their new toy 2 years ago.
Interesting reading, I love the number of trolls on here for a game they hate. Especially considering its not released yet. The warm feeling they'll get inside if does go tits up is kinda sad really.
Anyway, I'm not too concerned about the negative stuff. I see SOG as the game I bought with my $60, which really isn't much money. The fact is, when it boils down to it, SOG is the first time in 2 years me and all my mates will be playing the same MMORPG. I dont care about gfx overly and I dont care if its buggy.
Compare it to SW:G. SW:G had profs and massive land to explore. It lacked content, it was HORRENDOUSLY buggy. But it was fun. We explored, we crafted, we fooled around annoying rebels in pvp. Not omg take over my life fun, but enjoyable. Which is all I'm looking for in a game.
I've spent similar amounts on money on turkeys of games (Red faction 2 for example) and sure i'll be pissed if it all goes to hell, but its hardly gonna be the end of the world.
I play for the community, and I know that this is what SOG will have, my two best mates are playing. The other stuff will just be a bonus.
Come dec 8th (2006 if Jackdogs predictions are correct). We'll see, but seriously put it in perspective. I think ziggy came up with the best attitude. Fanbois fan, flamers flame. If its a fun game you'll all win.
I have to agree with Blunder. If the game is in decent shape when it launches, it should do okay. There are enough people interested, it seems, to make sure it has at least a modicum of success. Not WoW success, maybe, but something that's able to support itself and guarantee future content. People look for all sorts of different things in a game. If community is at the top of your list and the game makes it easy to socialise, it'll score well with you. Personally, I want it all... excellent graphics, exciting PvP, chock full of luscious content, the best guild controls ever... but I'm not silly enough to think I'll get all that in any game. At least, not at the start... probably not ever.
If you look at the state a lot of games release in, being a bit buggy and unstable is nothing new. For the most part, games get fixed in inches not all in one shot, even after release. Of course, this doesn't make it right but veteran gamer's will know to expect it and cope if they think the game has potential. It's not hugely serious... not like having a Ford Explorer with exploding tires. It's entertainment... if it entertains you, it's doing it's job. It might look great on the trailers and, yet, you still might hate it once you start playing. Who knows? It's a small monetary risk to buy a game... any game.
Having said that, the delays are getting kind of old. I'm sure a lot of people became disillusioned and stopped following the game years ago. If the developers had known they would run into the problems they did, or that it would take the time it's taken, they would have probably done a lot of things differently... like not set launch dates that became unrealistic as time passed. Stuff happens.
The naysayers also have a right to be suspicious. After the Horizons fiasco and the Mourning scam, people should be more careful. Not quite as militant about it as some here, but at least look at things with eyes wide open... and I think a lot of people do. There's a happy medium that can be met... cautious anticipation or something, I guess. In any case, I think most people here are not fanbois -OR- Slambois... they are something in between... hopeful but not blind.
If the fans are right, they'll dive in to the game, peruse the boards a bit less and eventually forget all about the naysayers. If the naysayers are right, they'll have their day of "I told you so"s, wander off to find a new game and will eventually forget all about it, too. Same as it ever was, really.
Basically, with out the legal jargon, it goes like this:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
A guy makes a mapping program. This mapping program is special because most mapping programs make everything look good from far away, but, the closer you get the images become grainy and out of proportion. He created a way to effectively 'zoom' in on huge parcels of land without loosing image detail. He effectively proved this by mapping the entire Italian peninsula. Why is this so special? Basically, it does for computer mapping what mp3 does for music files. Compressed with minimal loss of data or accessibility.
So, fast forward. NP3/Farlan approaches this dood about consulting on DnL. He basically adapts the program to their software allowing DnL to cover those 10,000km or w/e without much issue. This, of course is of great value to NP3 because one of the biggest complaints in MMOs today is "the explorable area is too small."
The guy realizes that most of the catch to DnL is the large amount of explorable land. He also understands that he wrote the program that allows DnL to have this unique feature. Naturally he wants to be paid for his services.
DnL won't pay him what he wants because they claim the program is theirs, the guy is upset because he claims the program is his... It comes down to judge's arbitration. The judge rules that the game is Farlan/NP3's and the program is within the game, so, the guy is pretty much out of luck.
Who's wrong or right is not up to us.
The fact that you have a major contributor so upset with the developing company that he's willing to leave and sue speaks volumes. It says that he was willing to pass up all his time/effort because he felt he was screwed over.
Thats heck of a problem.. feel sorry for the guy.. he makes it and then looses it to a company that is bigger than him.. I'm sure he has Copyright on it..
Well, I guess I will refrain from stating my opinion in order to stop being looked at as a h8er. Fact is I have been following this game for 2 years (not long compared to some), and I still have hopes for this game. However, I also realize the realities behind the game, and my honest opinion is that they are starting to run out of money. This is nothing far-fetched or original about any company. Many games have done something similar, just not something exactly like this.
I posted nothing that was not based on information, and I did not try to force my opinion on anyone else. I merely stated the opinion that I had, and then I get insults shot at me. Honestly I did not even give my opinion of the game, just the situation it is in. Some of the people posting need to cool down and stop taking everything other people say personally.
------------------- 98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Linkster from: -Battlefield 2 -Delta Force: Black Hawk Down (Retired) -SWG (Retired) -EQ2 (Retired)
Comments
Quite simple - they (NP3/AD) don't realize just how much DnL/SoG sucks and they don't expect the reaction from the playerbase that is inevitably going to happen, despite the pre-release hype. Thus why I am waiting with glee for December 8th. It will finally shut up all you uninformed fanbois and slap you with the cold, hard reality of what DnL/SoG is - a collossal failure of the same dimensions as Mourning was. Just that the DnL/AD people are more adept at hiding their failure before release, but the telling signs are already there, as Zippy posted in another thread. I suggest you carefully read Zippy's posts, because so far he has posted a lot of interesting things, which I fully agree with and they are nothing but the truth. I (and probably the other "haters") don't fear the release of SoG/DnL, because it will confirm our points entirely. The fanbois should fear the release, because it will shatter their most intimate dreams of their perfect little MMOG, which DnL never will be.
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
Although I'm rather cynical about the whole DnL thing these days... I don't understand why you would be "gleeful" that a lot of people will be disappointed and lose money, Inferno. That's just nasty.
Nah, it's the joy of knowing that I and others here are right the whole time, yet facing fanbois of insane proportions every day, fighting an uphill battle against the dumbed down hordes of DnL-fanboyism in the quest to save one or two people from wasting their money on this overhyped excuse of a game. It is with glee that I await the day when I can say: "Told ya so!" Because inevitably, someone will whine about that nobody told them about the true state of the game, while we did tell it the whole time but were ignored. Maybe it can be a lesson for the people trusting in the success of a game they know close to nothing about - don't trust the marketing hype of devs. They want your money primarily. DnL's release will serve as an example what happens when you unquestioningly support a game company, despite knowing better or suspecting that there might be something fishy going on. If people for once would say "No!" to unfinished games and lieing devs, maybe we'd not have to deal with collossal MMOG failures all the time and for once get a game that actually does give us what we want - the perfect MMOG experience.
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
hehe... ok then. As long as you're not, like, evil or anything.
I am evil. I wanted to play Dark - until I figured out that DnL will fail and I gave up on the plan to rule Ganareth. My current game is City of Villains. I like playing a flame-covered, smoke-dispensing, horned demon
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
People take things way to personally. The idea here is discuss games not take personal attacks at other people.
Many of us have been DnL fans for a longtime and have come to a conclusion that the game is a farce and will be very bad. We offer anyalysis and comparison to other games to support such arguments. I have not seen any anyalsis by the fanboys except blind faith. That being said, I doubt that anyone here actually wants the game to be bad. We all want the same thing a good game. Many of us also feel that one of the biggest impediments to good games is blindless faith by fanboys. Which again ups the emotions. Essentially what many of the naysayers are saying is hey we were where you are now 2 years ago or with another game 5 years ago don't make the same mistakes we made.
So we come here to discuss and share our wisdom not to root against the game. We cannot say discuss DnL openly on the official forums as the mods will not allow it as they only want fanboys there. Like Mourning they have been locking and removing non positive posts in record rates of late. So people come here where there can be a more balanced discussion.
Essentialy we all want the same thing. A good game. There is no reason to get upset at each other. We are all on the same side even if we disagree. I sincerely doubt that there is even one DnL critic on this board who would not be overjoyed if DnL actually turns out to be a good game.
nice try. but find me one post ive ever made praising this game. kthxbye
and yeah i do come here for information or talk about the game, but thats impossible because these trolls who know absolutly nothing except saying ..im not in beta but i know the game.. its impossible to even put up a semi-informative or interesting post without you idiots jumping all over it.
just look at the recent post dakarios put up recently , screenshots facts and whatever.
nice post, some information, nice screenshots. first reply, troll.. not long after , more trolls , more trolls and more trolls.
so yeah its nice you dont like the game and want to warn others(not that i think thats why you come here) but we get the point, let us have at least one thread without you jumping in and acting like an 8 year old who didn't get picked first in kickball
I wonder what exactly makes you think that we don't have any information. There may be a NDA, but that doesn't mean that we are ignorant about the things going on behind the scenes.
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
so why is it most of the naysayers just troll these boards then? your post was definitely not a troll but that is a rarity. i see waaaaaay more naysayers troll the Dnl forums vs fanboys, please explain that
ive already explained IMO why the naysayers do this in another thread so im not going to repeat myself but it is far more than just "trying to warn people".
if the naysayers want to discuss Dnl that is fine by me but why must they bombard these forums with crap that has been posted 1000 times before? or why must they troll every single thread that is made with the same crap over and over again?
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I'm really looking forward to the game, but the fact that they're offering it for free has nothing to do with their confidence in the game. EDIT: It has to do with the numbers of people you're trying to attract.
1. If you release a game for free before you really release the game, you're trying to figure out all the bugs before you have people paying for it so that they're not paying for a piece of crap for a few months until the bugs are all worked out (cough cough EQ2).
2. Most people are so skeptical about games that they probably wouldn't buy the game without a free trial. By releasing this pre-game SoG (Settlers of Ganareth) IMO they don't want to give out a free so-many-day trial so they're doing this instead.
But all-in-all most things that you can try for free, are that way because it attracts more people. Check out some infomercials sometime. They offer all kinds of crap for free just to attract the masses of americans that are like "what that's free? Hell yeah I'll play it"
I.E. Anarchy Online. I play it because it's free. The game is far outdated and way under par as it goes for MMORPG's, but it's free.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
I can't qualify as a DnL h8ter or fanboi, as I am really into another game, but I have been following the evolution of DnL for some time out of personal curiosity. I would like to venture an answer to the original question asked: Why would NPCube release SoG if the weren't confident in their product?
My theory is that the former release date of November (for open beta of DnL) had actually been the result of an ultimatum of DnL's investors. When NPCube realized that they could not release the game at that time, they were faced with an immediate closure of their line of credit, except if they could find some new investors. The solution they chose was to release the current beta as a special offering alongside with some kind of collector's offer that would allow them to raise half a million dollar quickly. This credit probably buys them 6 month, at which point they will be forced to either release what they have at that point, or delay the project once more and find some new investors or shut down the company.
So from my point of view, the release of SoG alongside with the 6 month delay really bears all the hallmarks of a desperate measure from the developers to save the game and the company. I can easily understand that kind of attitude from people that have been investing so much of their time in one project, and I wish them the best.
My theory on the release of SoG is somwwhat similar but different.
NP3 has been doing their best to not release any information to its player base or let its player base play DnL as they know the game is very bad. Unfortunately for them is the playerbase and even the fanboys have been growing quite impatient.
So in comes their plan to release SoG. Bear in mind that SoG has absolutely no features. No weather effects, no crafting, no preofessions at lvl 20, nothing all it is a small part of DnL's world. The way its described SoG sounds like a 2005 version of Pong. The beta leaks have consisently said that DNL has one good point and one asset its world. They have said the world is stunning, seamless and you can see forever. So by releasing SoG they can show off their one asset, appear to be the good guy and better yet the fan boys will say don't worry if SoG stinks its not the real game.
SoG buys them another 6 months with the playerbase and keeps open the hope that they can with enough time make the game fun to play or in the worst case scenario they can still make money releasing a game that no one has ever played or knows nothing about except vague theories. SoG IMHO was really brilliant. NP3 had their backs against the wall and were in a position where they either had to show the public what they have been hiding for the last 5 years or fold up their tent. Instead they have bought themseves another 6 months where they continue to play hide the ball with their fanbsae. Plus they made themselves a quick $500,000 on pre-orders.
Of course all of this are just theories, but I do feel that in the various forums, people have been focusing exclusively on the relationship (or lack thereof) between the developers and the community, while ignoring that there also exists a relationship between investors and developers.
If someone gives you money to do something that you tell them will take 6 months and after 1 year you come back to tell them that it will actually take 2 years more and that you have already spent all the money you got, there is bound to be a trust issue. Well established game publishers realize that this is the cold hard reality of game development, so they take this into account in their original plan, but normal investors might not have that kind of patience nor understanding.
This is also why most game publishers are reticent to fund any developer that doesn't have an established track record of finishing a product within acceptable delays and budget. This is the the unfortunate catch-22 that most wannabe developers face.
Oh man, now people are posting imagined investor ultimatums as the reason for the devs releasing SoG.
What's that saying........... The simplest explanation is usually correct.
So what's more likely:
1. They are releasing SoG to placate their fanbase and keep them hooked until they can finish the final product in time for an April release. The reason they opened preorders in advance of SoG was to pay for the servers and bandwith since SoG is free of charge.
or
2. SoG is just an elaborate scheme to keep their investors happy and pull the wool over the players eyes. The developers realize their game is horrible and want to suck as much money out of people as possible before having to release the actual game, hence the preorders. The developers are also naive enough to think that people won't make up their mind about the quality of DnL based on SoG. If SoG is horrible and fails miserably they will just remind everyone that SoG is NOT DnL and that they should be patient and buy the game in April to see the big improvements. This tatic will be wildly successful and presents no risk of say, I dunno, maybe everyone realizing that SoG is a steaming pile of $hit and not buying DnL in April like they might have had they NOT PLAYED A VERSION OF IT FOR FREE FOR 5 MONTHS.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say scenario 1 is probably closest to the reality of the situation.
We'll all find out on Dec 8th for sure though.
such a child
Actually, given past experience with MMORPGs, your second scenario seems more likely, Newbert. It was a nice try, though. I am having a hard time remembering ANY game that did not have problems at launch that could have been fixed with a longer beta time. In this, I also mean that I cannot remember a game that was not pressured to realease earlier than they should because of lack of funds. Seeing that DnL has delayed its launch to a year longer than first estimated, there is no doubt in my mind that they are starting to have financial problems. Whether SoG is good or not, and whether DnL is good or not, remains to be seen. But I do not think this was a ploy to astonish players into having 5 months of interest and fun in DnL. I feel it was a way to temporarily appease the impatience of its fanbase and receive the funds they need to HOPEFULLY finish the game.
It is extremely likely that the cause of pre-ordering was a lack of money. The real question is whether or not the money will buy them time enough to save the game.
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You are all over the place here man. You say that games are released earlier as a result of not enough money, and then you state that the delays DnL is suffering is a result of lack of funds? Wouldn't they release early if they were struggling with money?
That is possible. Although, if they were in desperate need of money, why limit the pre-orders to just 8881, when they know they could get more?
You are all over the place here man. You say that games are released earlier as a result of not enough money, and then you state that the delays DnL is suffering is a result of lack of funds? Wouldn't they release early if they were struggling with money?
That is possible. Although, if they were in desperate need of money, why limit the pre-orders to just 8881, when they know they could get more?
It doesn't make sense because it's not true. It's the paranoid fantasy of a bunch of disgruntled fanbois who wanted their new toy 2 years ago.
Interesting reading, I love the number of trolls on here for a game they hate. Especially considering its not released yet. The warm feeling they'll get inside if does go tits up is kinda sad really.
Anyway, I'm not too concerned about the negative stuff. I see SOG as the game I bought with my $60, which really isn't much money. The fact is, when it boils down to it, SOG is the first time in 2 years me and all my mates will be playing the same MMORPG. I dont care about gfx overly and I dont care if its buggy.
Compare it to SW:G. SW:G had profs and massive land to explore. It lacked content, it was HORRENDOUSLY buggy. But it was fun. We explored, we crafted, we fooled around annoying rebels in pvp. Not omg take over my life fun, but enjoyable. Which is all I'm looking for in a game.
I've spent similar amounts on money on turkeys of games (Red faction 2 for example) and sure i'll be pissed if it all goes to hell, but its hardly gonna be the end of the world.
I play for the community, and I know that this is what SOG will have, my two best mates are playing. The other stuff will just be a bonus.
Come dec 8th (2006 if Jackdogs predictions are correct). We'll see, but seriously put it in perspective. I think ziggy came up with the best attitude. Fanbois fan, flamers flame. If its a fun game you'll all win.
I have to agree with Blunder. If the game is in decent shape when it launches, it should do okay. There are enough people interested, it seems, to make sure it has at least a modicum of success. Not WoW success, maybe, but something that's able to support itself and guarantee future content. People look for all sorts of different things in a game. If community is at the top of your list and the game makes it easy to socialise, it'll score well with you. Personally, I want it all... excellent graphics, exciting PvP, chock full of luscious content, the best guild controls ever... but I'm not silly enough to think I'll get all that in any game. At least, not at the start... probably not ever.
If you look at the state a lot of games release in, being a bit buggy and unstable is nothing new. For the most part, games get fixed in inches not all in one shot, even after release. Of course, this doesn't make it right but veteran gamer's will know to expect it and cope if they think the game has potential. It's not hugely serious... not like having a Ford Explorer with exploding tires. It's entertainment... if it entertains you, it's doing it's job. It might look great on the trailers and, yet, you still might hate it once you start playing. Who knows? It's a small monetary risk to buy a game... any game.
Having said that, the delays are getting kind of old. I'm sure a lot of people became disillusioned and stopped following the game years ago. If the developers had known they would run into the problems they did, or that it would take the time it's taken, they would have probably done a lot of things differently... like not set launch dates that became unrealistic as time passed. Stuff happens.
The naysayers also have a right to be suspicious. After the Horizons fiasco and the Mourning scam, people should be more careful. Not quite as militant about it as some here, but at least look at things with eyes wide open... and I think a lot of people do. There's a happy medium that can be met... cautious anticipation or something, I guess. In any case, I think most people here are not fanbois -OR- Slambois... they are something in between... hopeful but not blind.
If the fans are right, they'll dive in to the game, peruse the boards a bit less and eventually forget all about the naysayers. If the naysayers are right, they'll have their day of "I told you so"s, wander off to find a new game and will eventually forget all about it, too. Same as it ever was, really.
Why the delay? Here's something you may have read already..
The DnL Engine Designer was Fired about the time and they have been using his illegally, so they have to make a new engine .. thus the delays..
P.S this is only Rumor.. but the DnL Engine Designer has placed a Forum Update on his situation..
Basically, with out the legal jargon, it goes like this:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
A guy makes a mapping program. This mapping program is special because most mapping programs make everything look good from far away, but, the closer you get the images become grainy and out of proportion. He created a way to effectively 'zoom' in on huge parcels of land without loosing image detail. He effectively proved this by mapping the entire Italian peninsula. Why is this so special? Basically, it does for computer mapping what mp3 does for music files. Compressed with minimal loss of data or accessibility.
So, fast forward. NP3/Farlan approaches this dood about consulting on DnL. He basically adapts the program to their software allowing DnL to cover those 10,000km or w/e without much issue. This, of course is of great value to NP3 because one of the biggest complaints in MMOs today is "the explorable area is too small."
The guy realizes that most of the catch to DnL is the large amount of explorable land. He also understands that he wrote the program that allows DnL to have this unique feature. Naturally he wants to be paid for his services.
DnL won't pay him what he wants because they claim the program is theirs, the guy is upset because he claims the program is his... It comes down to judge's arbitration. The judge rules that the game is Farlan/NP3's and the program is within the game, so, the guy is pretty much out of luck.
Who's wrong or right is not up to us.
The fact that you have a major contributor so upset with the developing company that he's willing to leave and sue speaks volumes. It says that he was willing to pass up all his time/effort because he felt he was screwed over.
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Back from the land of the b&.
Thats heck of a problem.. feel sorry for the guy.. he makes it and then looses it to a company that is bigger than him.. I'm sure he has Copyright on it..
Still.. Bring on DNL!!
Well, I guess I will refrain from stating my opinion in order to stop being looked at as a h8er. Fact is I have been following this game for 2 years (not long compared to some), and I still have hopes for this game. However, I also realize the realities behind the game, and my honest opinion is that they are starting to run out of money. This is nothing far-fetched or original about any company. Many games have done something similar, just not something exactly like this.
I posted nothing that was not based on information, and I did not try to force my opinion on anyone else. I merely stated the opinion that I had, and then I get insults shot at me. Honestly I did not even give my opinion of the game, just the situation it is in. Some of the people posting need to cool down and stop taking everything other people say personally.
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