Everquest has always been a pure PVE experience where little kids and brats you find in PVP games were shunned.
If EQ Next has any form of forced PVP at all. I will not touch the game.
Fans have been playing these games for over a decade, none of them are PVP fans.
I play RPG for the roleplaying and lore, not to fight with little kids.
I played Ultima Online for a very long time (still do) and while it is mostly PVE/Gear based today, guilds always had the option to war each other, and many RP guilds on the Europa (european shard) took advantage of this.. I say, why not have BOTH?
This was the results of the RP-War ring on Europa and while there was PVP, we had our rules PVP in UO and when warring, looting each other was allowed, guild members could always attack each other, but we knew better and players knew better and while we had our RP-Warring, there was much more, we built taverns, ran player cities and RP'd as barmaids, bartenders, merchants, sailors, pirates, guardsmen and even RP'd as orcs(which isn't a player race in UO..) And this is what made Ultima Online such a great game compared to Everquest in Ultima Online, the possibilities were ENDLESS and that's what makes great roleplaying, is with those endless possibilities and that's why I support having PVP in a MMORPG though I support safe zones as well, I also support the freedom to do whatever it is you want to do, to be able to do things that the developers had not intended for you to be able to do and it is that type of thinking that is missing from today's MMORPG's..
There is simply more to roleplaying than RP-PVE.. The purpose of Ultima Online, the WHOLE reason, even though we had PVP with Full Loot in the beginning, was for social interaction in an online world, people and characters and roleplayers developed real relationships, real feelings, our characters to us were real.. Links below..
Come on now, there will be PvE servers, PVP (Hardcore), PVP (Light), RP....
If there is demand, they will supply. When there isn't demand, they will remove or condense.
Everyone seems full steam ahead on the idea of "open-world sandbox" "freedom" yada yada yada, yet people want to force each other into their ruleset and preferred style of play. They will cater to everyone or make a dumb/pointless mistake.
Fairly easy for them to just hit a switch and allow us to attach each other or not, then it's up to us to handle it from there.
I can't wait for Aug 2nd so we can see what's to come and the argument can turn to something else (elves ears are too pointy!!!!).
Good read, but dang, for all the "freedom" talk, sure seems like everyone wants to control each others gaming experience.
If the game looks decent, I will be on board, but hoping for some PVP fun.
I hate unfair systems and watched Andred/Mordred die in DAoC (FFA servers from a PVP based game) and got sick of running over people in WoW that wouldn't fight back in the world cause they were too busy PVEing.
Give me a game that allows "fair" fights and a challenge, but most of all, a reason to PVP to begin with. I have TF2 if I want to mindlessly kill others nonstop.
Let the PVPers kill each other off until the next "PVP" game comes out and let the PVErs play whack a mole forever, we all win.
The trick is to design something that puts the two together in harmony and we will all reap the benefits of playing together, enhancing the total experience, instead of bickering about which is better or more true to EQ or whatever.
Has everyone forgotten was MMORPG's were about? Let's take PVE AND PVP out of the equation for a moment, what are you left with in a MMORPG if you take out the PVE and PVP? You're left with the world itself.. If you're developing a SANDBOX game especially, you want to have realism, realism and sandbox go hand in hand, but not because it makes better PVE or PVP, it makes a better community in general, always has, always will.. And mind you, players get grief'd more on WoW PVP servers than they ever will in a sandbox MMO because in a sandbox world, it is more alive, its seamless, there is more possibilities, and more involvement from the players..
An MMO should be about SOCIAL interaction and should rewards those who are roleplaying.. It is the roleplayers in EVERY MMO, I don't care what it is, that make up the community, instead you kids come in here and treat it as another counterstrike, well, that's great! GO PLAY COUNTERSTRIKE! Go play Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or Call of Duty, that's what you want isn't it!?
In my opinion, it has ZERO place in a real MMORPG.. I don't play sandbox games because I like to OMFG PVP AND PWN THE N00BZ!! I play them because there is better roleplaying, more social aspects and more freedom and in most cases it feels more alive, granted, yes I like PVP as much as the next guy, but I am not into managed PVP and what that means is I don't like pointless battlegrounds.. I like diplomacy, making trade deals, running caravans, politics, declaring war, forging alliances, backstabbing my friends, infiltrating other guilds, laying siege to their cities out in the open world. That to me is what true PVP in a RPG is and it is time to put the RPG back into MMORPG.. This is also one of the reasons I am against things like auction houses, there is less interaction involved and it makes the game more casual.. I am in favor of NPC player vendors to sell wares.. Where the player can own a vendor and keep it stocked, set the prices, and so forth.. Players should instead be able to write out full written profiles that others can read where they can come up with a story for their character, or list items they have for sale, etc.. Kinda like a journal..
I truly believe that a player should be able to play as ANYTHING they wish to be, weather it be a pirate, a sailor, a merchant or a bartender running a tavern or a trading company and serving drinks or weather you wanna RP as a savage or a brigand or in a military and raise a barracks, an armory or RP as a cleric or a templar and build a church for yourself or even a vampire, I am alright with ALL of it.. It should have endless roleplaying possibilities, ALL things in a real sandbox MMORPG would be possible and every day would be a new adventure..
I don't believe the small but vocal "sandbox" minority will be satisfied here. Smedley will promise pretty much everything to include a pony to get the initial box sales. Sandbox means so many different things to an MMO gamer, that regardless of what they produce, alot of people will be disappointed. Also making the game a griefer's playground by not separating the PvE and PvP crowds will greatly decrease the market they can tap into. Who goes into the design meeting with the thought of making game play architectures that exclude the majority of your potential customers? That's just plain stupid if you want your game to sell and gain market share.
Originally posted by Lugors I don't believe the small but vocal "sandbox" minority will be satisfied here. Smedley will promise pretty much everything to include a pony to get the initial box sales. Sandbox means so many different things to an MMO gamer, that regardless of what they produce, alot of people will be disappointed. Also making the game a griefer's playground by not separating the PvE and PvP crowds will greatly decrease the market they can tap into. Who goes into the design meeting with the thought of making game play architectures that exclude the majority of your potential customers? That's just plain stupid if you want your game to sell and gain market share.
What I highlighted says it all. These forums prove time and time again that not matter how much a game is different from the norm, people will still want it to conform to their vision of perfection. If the genre goes down hill, it will be because of bitching players and not devs.
Has everyone forgotten was MMORPG's were about? Let's take PVE AND PVP out of the equation for a moment, what are you left with in a MMORPG if you take out the PVE and PVP? You're left with the world itself.. If you're developing a SANDBOX game especially, you want to have realism, realism and sandbox go hand in hand, but not because it makes better PVE or PVP, it makes a better community in general, always has, always will.. And mind you, players get grief'd more on WoW PVP servers than they ever will in a sandbox MMO because in a sandbox world, it is more alive, its seamless, there is more possibilities, and more involvement from the players..
An MMO should be about SOCIAL interaction and should rewards those who are roleplaying.. It is the roleplayers in EVERY MMO, I don't care what it is, that make up the community, instead you kids come in here and treat it as another counterstrike, well, that's great! GO PLAY COUNTERSTRIKE! Go play Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or Call of Duty, that's what you want isn't it!?
In my opinion, it has ZERO place in a real MMORPG.. I don't play sandbox games because I like to OMFG PVP AND PWN THE N00BZ!! I play them because there is better roleplaying, more social aspects and more freedom and in most cases it feels more alive, granted, yes I like PVP as much as the next guy, but I am not into managed PVP and what that means is I don't like pointless battlegrounds.. I like diplomacy, making trade deals, running caravans, politics, declaring war, forging alliances, backstabbing my friends, infiltrating other guilds, laying siege to their cities out in the open world. That to me is what true PVP in a RPG is and it is time to put the RPG back into MMORPG.. This is also one of the reasons I am against things like auction houses, there is less interaction involved and it makes the game more casual.. I am in favor of NPC player vendors to sell wares.. Where the player can own a vendor and keep it stocked, set the prices, and so forth.. Players should instead be able to write out full written profiles that others can read where they can come up with a story for their character, or list items they have for sale, etc.. Kinda like a journal..
I truly believe that a player should be able to play as ANYTHING they wish to be, weather it be a pirate, a sailor, a merchant or a bartender running a tavern or a trading company and serving drinks or weather you wanna RP as a savage or a brigand or in a military and raise a barracks, an armory or RP as a cleric or a templar and build a church for yourself or even a vampire, I am alright with ALL of it.. It should have endless roleplaying possibilities, ALL things in a real sandbox MMORPG would be possible and every day would be a new adventure..
Sounds like you might prefer something like Second Life....but
"Realism" is that people aren't going to play nice and all RP pirates and sailors. While I don't care what we end up with, I highly doubt a large chunk of potential players want to be forced to play with CS kids by default. To me "realism" is your church burned to the ground, me standing over your corpse until you log off. Sounds great? Probably not. I only hope I have other options, but we shall see.
Over my 17 years of online gaming, I've seen the community go down hill and without some sort of structure and loss of some freedom, games don't thrive or at least not at the level SOE would like (betting company's future on EQN).
Instead of forcing PVP down on PVE players or having "can't attack" pop up when PVPers go to gank someone, provide different rules and we all get what we want. Like I said, it is possible (not easy) to accommodate everyone and get everyone to play together, but they will probably go the easy way out and have multiple server rulesets to make it as painless as possible. I just find it funny that so many claim they want a game that allows "freedom" but what they really want is a game with their best interest in mind that others have to play along in.
I would love the utopian game world you describe, but sadly without a lot of checks in place, it would be ruined by a handful of jerks. I'd love a age, IQ, personality type requirement for games, too bad that isn't possible. What we are left with is some really great people invested and others there just to cause some havoc and move on. Too bad they have plenty of replacements.
Comments
Yup, and it's easy to tell which games. They are the ones with a player base larger than the number of occupants allowed in a gas station bathroom.
I played Ultima Online for a very long time (still do) and while it is mostly PVE/Gear based today, guilds always had the option to war each other, and many RP guilds on the Europa (european shard) took advantage of this.. I say, why not have BOTH?
This was the results of the RP-War ring on Europa and while there was PVP, we had our rules PVP in UO and when warring, looting each other was allowed, guild members could always attack each other, but we knew better and players knew better and while we had our RP-Warring, there was much more, we built taverns, ran player cities and RP'd as barmaids, bartenders, merchants, sailors, pirates, guardsmen and even RP'd as orcs(which isn't a player race in UO..) And this is what made Ultima Online such a great game compared to Everquest in Ultima Online, the possibilities were ENDLESS and that's what makes great roleplaying, is with those endless possibilities and that's why I support having PVP in a MMORPG though I support safe zones as well, I also support the freedom to do whatever it is you want to do, to be able to do things that the developers had not intended for you to be able to do and it is that type of thinking that is missing from today's MMORPG's..
There is simply more to roleplaying than RP-PVE.. The purpose of Ultima Online, the WHOLE reason, even though we had PVP with Full Loot in the beginning, was for social interaction in an online world, people and characters and roleplayers developed real relationships, real feelings, our characters to us were real.. Links below..
http://www.uoforums.com/memory-box-nostalgia-central/94909-festivals-celebrations-big-occasions.html
http://www.uoforums.com/memory-box-nostalgia-central/94906-wars-battles.html
http://www.uoforums.com/memory-box-nostalgia-central/94912-lineup-montage.html
http://www.uoforums.com/memory-box-nostalgia-central/94911-quests-em-events.html
Come on now, there will be PvE servers, PVP (Hardcore), PVP (Light), RP....
If there is demand, they will supply. When there isn't demand, they will remove or condense.
Everyone seems full steam ahead on the idea of "open-world sandbox" "freedom" yada yada yada, yet people want to force each other into their ruleset and preferred style of play. They will cater to everyone or make a dumb/pointless mistake.
Fairly easy for them to just hit a switch and allow us to attach each other or not, then it's up to us to handle it from there.
I can't wait for Aug 2nd so we can see what's to come and the argument can turn to something else (elves ears are too pointy!!!!).
Good read, but dang, for all the "freedom" talk, sure seems like everyone wants to control each others gaming experience.
If the game looks decent, I will be on board, but hoping for some PVP fun.
I hate unfair systems and watched Andred/Mordred die in DAoC (FFA servers from a PVP based game) and got sick of running over people in WoW that wouldn't fight back in the world cause they were too busy PVEing.
Give me a game that allows "fair" fights and a challenge, but most of all, a reason to PVP to begin with. I have TF2 if I want to mindlessly kill others nonstop.
Let the PVPers kill each other off until the next "PVP" game comes out and let the PVErs play whack a mole forever, we all win.
The trick is to design something that puts the two together in harmony and we will all reap the benefits of playing together, enhancing the total experience, instead of bickering about which is better or more true to EQ or whatever.
The above post is missing the point ^
Has everyone forgotten was MMORPG's were about? Let's take PVE AND PVP out of the equation for a moment, what are you left with in a MMORPG if you take out the PVE and PVP? You're left with the world itself.. If you're developing a SANDBOX game especially, you want to have realism, realism and sandbox go hand in hand, but not because it makes better PVE or PVP, it makes a better community in general, always has, always will.. And mind you, players get grief'd more on WoW PVP servers than they ever will in a sandbox MMO because in a sandbox world, it is more alive, its seamless, there is more possibilities, and more involvement from the players..
An MMO should be about SOCIAL interaction and should rewards those who are roleplaying.. It is the roleplayers in EVERY MMO, I don't care what it is, that make up the community, instead you kids come in here and treat it as another counterstrike, well, that's great! GO PLAY COUNTERSTRIKE! Go play Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or Call of Duty, that's what you want isn't it!?
In my opinion, it has ZERO place in a real MMORPG.. I don't play sandbox games because I like to OMFG PVP AND PWN THE N00BZ!! I play them because there is better roleplaying, more social aspects and more freedom and in most cases it feels more alive, granted, yes I like PVP as much as the next guy, but I am not into managed PVP and what that means is I don't like pointless battlegrounds.. I like diplomacy, making trade deals, running caravans, politics, declaring war, forging alliances, backstabbing my friends, infiltrating other guilds, laying siege to their cities out in the open world. That to me is what true PVP in a RPG is and it is time to put the RPG back into MMORPG.. This is also one of the reasons I am against things like auction houses, there is less interaction involved and it makes the game more casual.. I am in favor of NPC player vendors to sell wares.. Where the player can own a vendor and keep it stocked, set the prices, and so forth.. Players should instead be able to write out full written profiles that others can read where they can come up with a story for their character, or list items they have for sale, etc.. Kinda like a journal..
I truly believe that a player should be able to play as ANYTHING they wish to be, weather it be a pirate, a sailor, a merchant or a bartender running a tavern or a trading company and serving drinks or weather you wanna RP as a savage or a brigand or in a military and raise a barracks, an armory or RP as a cleric or a templar and build a church for yourself or even a vampire, I am alright with ALL of it.. It should have endless roleplaying possibilities, ALL things in a real sandbox MMORPG would be possible and every day would be a new adventure..
Let's also not forget that if players aren't out loosing their stuff, the game's economy will stagnate and die.
This would be bad for the game, and you don't want that. Inflation is actually a thing that happens.
What I highlighted says it all. These forums prove time and time again that not matter how much a game is different from the norm, people will still want it to conform to their vision of perfection. If the genre goes down hill, it will be because of bitching players and not devs.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Sounds like you might prefer something like Second Life....but
"Realism" is that people aren't going to play nice and all RP pirates and sailors. While I don't care what we end up with, I highly doubt a large chunk of potential players want to be forced to play with CS kids by default. To me "realism" is your church burned to the ground, me standing over your corpse until you log off. Sounds great? Probably not. I only hope I have other options, but we shall see.
Over my 17 years of online gaming, I've seen the community go down hill and without some sort of structure and loss of some freedom, games don't thrive or at least not at the level SOE would like (betting company's future on EQN).
Instead of forcing PVP down on PVE players or having "can't attack" pop up when PVPers go to gank someone, provide different rules and we all get what we want. Like I said, it is possible (not easy) to accommodate everyone and get everyone to play together, but they will probably go the easy way out and have multiple server rulesets to make it as painless as possible. I just find it funny that so many claim they want a game that allows "freedom" but what they really want is a game with their best interest in mind that others have to play along in.
I would love the utopian game world you describe, but sadly without a lot of checks in place, it would be ruined by a handful of jerks. I'd love a age, IQ, personality type requirement for games, too bad that isn't possible. What we are left with is some really great people invested and others there just to cause some havoc and move on. Too bad they have plenty of replacements.