They would be dumb not to put red mage somewhere down the line as its one of the most popular Jobs in the series.
Yeah but the prob is.. it is a class that does the things that 2-3 other classes do, but not as good as any of them. At least in FFXI it was one of the best buffers. In XIV they already have some serious buffer classes. RDM DPS won't be greater than BLM. It's heals won't be greater than WHM. It's buffs won't be greater than Bards/Scholars.
Games shoot themselves in the foot with these hybrid classes, but then again you can never have too many healers. I am sure they will add both of these, but I have never seen the draw of the RDM.
this really sucks to hear I was on the fence if i would bother to try this after trying it and them noit hearing a damn thing and it crashed and burned the 1st release. Still socked that alpha till release lasted all but 3 months the 1st time. I may try it later if blue mage come down the pipe but with out the red really kills it for me I love playing a red mage when I play any FF game FFXI red mage was a blast .
Originally posted by banshe13 this really sucks to hear I was on the fence if i would bother to try this after trying it and them noit hearing a damn thing and it crashed and burned the 1st release. Still socked that alpha till release lasted all but 3 months the 1st time. I may try it later if blue mage come down the pipe but with out the red really kills it for me I love playing a red mage when I play any FF game FFXI red mage was a blast .
Just wait then. Or skip it altogether. It seems 1.0 didn't settle well with you and you are a bit stuck on that.
Not sure what google + does FFXIV have a red mage wouldn't do for you that you are trying to get out of us?
I do expect a Red Mage at some point in the future, however I think it will be after they get some of the other Jobs in. All of the upcoming Jobs are probably going to be based around the current 30/15 class setup. Red Mage is more a combination of Gladiator, Conjurer, and Thaumeteurge; so that will be a difficult setup to decide without making it too easy to level to.
15/15/15 is too easy
30/15/15 is a possibility though.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I can't see how red mage would work in this when the class system itself allows the essential construction of a red mage in all but name. If it ever has an incarnation in XIV it will have to be unrecognisably different in order to be of any use.
Blue mage on the other hand could obviously be done eventually. I expect it will at some point.
They would be dumb not to put red mage somewhere down the line as its one of the most popular Jobs in the series.
Yeah but the prob is.. it is a class that does the things that 2-3 other classes do, but not as good as any of them. At least in FFXI it was one of the best buffers. In XIV they already have some serious buffer classes. RDM DPS won't be greater than BLM. It's heals won't be greater than WHM. It's buffs won't be greater than Bards/Scholars.
Games shoot themselves in the foot with these hybrid classes, but then again you can never have too many healers. I am sure they will add both of these, but I have never seen the draw of the RDM.
Well in FF11 we had BRD COR RDM and later SCH and all of them were able to buff the pt at the same time i dont see why it couldnt work like that in FF14.
Just give RDM refresh and its all good anyways lol (maybe generating MP/TP)
THM is very close to RDM. all these dots heal stuff from scholar makes me think its very close to Red mage therefore it will be hard to implement a RDM class unless you can branch out 3 jobs from 1 class
If they do add red mage I dont think it will be a support buffer class this time. It will prolly be a dps class but not burst damage like black mage. And it will prolly have more emphasis on its sword fighting combined with black and white magic.
Originally posted by tkreep If they do add red mage I dont think it will be a support buffer class this time. It will prolly be a dps class but not burst damage like black mage. And it will prolly have more emphasis on its sword fighting combined with black and white magic.
Agreed for the most part, though I don't see why they can't be a melee support/buff dps in the way that bard is currently (in FFXIV) a ranged support/buffer dps.
I'm thinking they will have hybrid melee/magic abilities moreso than pure black or white spells plus melee - for instance, 'red lotus blade', a fiery sword attack, etc. - or perhaps they will have a class mechanic which allows them to switch between weapon enchants (enfire, enthunder, etc.) and each enchant changes the effects of a set of base melee weaponskills.
They could make it work just fine with the current system, if they were so inclined.
I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class. It's primarily a healer and if you add arcanist it is a healer with DoTs and possibly some debuffs - you'd still be missing a lot of the red mage kit there and playstyle would be more like a healer and less like a hybrid character, even if the other class you drew from was a melee class (which is highly unlikely for Scholar).
You could combine some class skills to make some kind of barely-hybrid, but then you probably aren't getting into any group that is pushing challenging content - that'd be what the jobs are geared for.
Still, I'm pretty confident there will eventually be some job geared to people who want this sort of hybrid job (hybrid melee/mage) in the game.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class. It's primarily a healer and if you add arcanist it is a healer with DoTs and possibly some debuffs - you'd still be missing a lot of the red mage kit there and playstyle would be more like a healer and less like a hybrid character, even if the other class you drew from was a melee class (which is highly unlikely for Scholar).
You could combine some class skills to make some kind of barely-hybrid, but then you probably aren't getting into any group that is pushing challenging content - that'd be what the jobs are geared for.
Still, I'm pretty confident there will eventually be some job geared to people who want this sort of hybrid job (hybrid melee/mage) in the game.
It'll be interesting to see exactly which class they chose to do it with. You could use Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, even Ninja if you really want to push it.
Honestly I think with Summoner and Scholar they should stop making jobs for a while. Let the playerbase get their hands on them and see how they play before making anything else.
FFXI's biggest flaws was that although it had tons of jobs....most were "loljobs" that were nearly useless endgame. Let's not encourage them to do the same thing just because we want to see X job added to the game.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class. It's primarily a healer and if you add arcanist it is a healer with DoTs and possibly some debuffs - you'd still be missing a lot of the red mage kit there and playstyle would be more like a healer and less like a hybrid character, even if the other class you drew from was a melee class (which is highly unlikely for Scholar).
You could combine some class skills to make some kind of barely-hybrid, but then you probably aren't getting into any group that is pushing challenging content - that'd be what the jobs are geared for.
Still, I'm pretty confident there will eventually be some job geared to people who want this sort of hybrid job (hybrid melee/mage) in the game.
It'll be interesting to see exactly which class they chose to do it with. You could use Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, even Ninja if you really want to push it.
I'm pretty sure they have at least alluded strongly to Dark Knight and Ninja being in eventually - not as sure about the others. Hard to say with ninja whether they will be treated as 'magic' oriented at all - not in the same way red mage would be probably. I'm thinking even if those two make it in, there will still be a place for a separate melee/magic support/dps hybrid to be filled by Red or Blue Mage or even something more obscure like Rune Fencer or Mystic Knight, just so that that particular niche is filled.
Honestly I think with Summoner and Scholar they should stop making jobs for a while. Let the playerbase get their hands on them and see how they play before making anything else.
FFXI's biggest flaws was that although it had tons of jobs....most were "loljobs" that were nearly useless endgame. Let's not encourage them to do the same thing just because we want to see X job added to the game.
I don't think FFXIV will have the same problem as XI did - with the GCD combat system ala WoW, jobs are easier to balance, especially since they lack XI's subjobs. When a new job is added, they will always know what class it will grow out of, and can select any other classes it might draw abilities from, so they will know exactly which abilities will be available to it and how it measures up against other jobs. Like WoW, it is going to be easier to think in terms of general roles filled in a raid (Tank, Healer, DPS) moreso than particular jobs, because all classes belonging to those roles will all be fairly balanced in regards to them.
Furthermore, there will be less adjustment time between the release of a new job and the community mastering it, since they will generally grow out of existing classes (unless they add new classes at the same time that they add new jobs growing from them, as they might in expansions or some such) - therefore they already have a familiar base of abilities to build upon. Especially since leveling a class to 50 currently means leveling all its jobs and all possible future jobs growing out of it to 50 simultaneously, I'm thinking there is going to be a high community demand for more jobs sooner than you'd think, and not just so that all the franchise classics are in.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class. It's primarily a healer and if you add arcanist it is a healer with DoTs and possibly some debuffs - you'd still be missing a lot of the red mage kit there and playstyle would be more like a healer and less like a hybrid character, even if the other class you drew from was a melee class (which is highly unlikely for Scholar).
You could combine some class skills to make some kind of barely-hybrid, but then you probably aren't getting into any group that is pushing challenging content - that'd be what the jobs are geared for.
Still, I'm pretty confident there will eventually be some job geared to people who want this sort of hybrid job (hybrid melee/mage) in the game.
It'll be interesting to see exactly which class they chose to do it with. You could use Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, even Ninja if you really want to push it.
I'm pretty sure they have at least alluded strongly to Dark Knight and Ninja being in eventually - not as sure about the others. Hard to say with ninja whether they will be treated as 'magic' oriented at all - not in the same way red mage would be probably. I'm thinking even if those two make it in, there will still be a place for a separate melee/magic support/dps hybrid to be filled by Red or Blue Mage or even something more obscure like Rune Fencer or Mystic Knight, just so that that particular niche is filled.
Honestly I think with Summoner and Scholar they should stop making jobs for a while. Let the playerbase get their hands on them and see how they play before making anything else.
FFXI's biggest flaws was that although it had tons of jobs....most were "loljobs" that were nearly useless endgame. Let's not encourage them to do the same thing just because we want to see X job added to the game.
I don't think FFXIV will have the same problem as XI did - with the GCD combat system ala WoW, jobs are easier to balance, especially since they lack XI's subjobs. When a new job is added, they will always know what class it will grow out of, and can select any other classes it might draw abilities from, so they will know exactly which abilities will be available to it and how it measures up against other jobs. Like WoW, it is going to be easier to think in terms of general roles filled in a raid (Tank, Healer, DPS) moreso than particular jobs, because all classes belonging to those roles will all be fairly balanced in regards to them.
Furthermore, there will be less adjustment time between the release of a new job and the community mastering it, since they will generally grow out of existing classes (unless they add new classes at the same time that they add new jobs growing from them, as they might in expansions or some such) - therefore they already have a familiar base of abilities to build upon. Especially since leveling a class to 50 currently means leveling all its jobs and all possible future jobs growing out of it to 50 simultaneously, I'm thinking there is going to be a high community demand for more jobs sooner than you'd think, and not just so that all the franchise classics are in.
Good observation. On top of the fact that the current system works on having multiple jobs per class, there are all of the vets who have their classes fully leveled whom they need to create something new for.
Although the VAST majority of those people who do have all max level classes also used dual-boxing PL for them >.>
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class. It's primarily a healer and if you add arcanist it is a healer with DoTs and possibly some debuffs - you'd still be missing a lot of the red mage kit there and playstyle would be more like a healer and less like a hybrid character, even if the other class you drew from was a melee class (which is highly unlikely for Scholar).
You could combine some class skills to make some kind of barely-hybrid, but then you probably aren't getting into any group that is pushing challenging content - that'd be what the jobs are geared for.
Still, I'm pretty confident there will eventually be some job geared to people who want this sort of hybrid job (hybrid melee/mage) in the game.
It'll be interesting to see exactly which class they chose to do it with. You could use Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, even Ninja if you really want to push it.
I'm pretty sure they have at least alluded strongly to Dark Knight and Ninja being in eventually - not as sure about the others. Hard to say with ninja whether they will be treated as 'magic' oriented at all - not in the same way red mage would be probably. I'm thinking even if those two make it in, there will still be a place for a separate melee/magic support/dps hybrid to be filled by Red or Blue Mage or even something more obscure like Rune Fencer or Mystic Knight, just so that that particular niche is filled.
Honestly I think with Summoner and Scholar they should stop making jobs for a while. Let the playerbase get their hands on them and see how they play before making anything else.
FFXI's biggest flaws was that although it had tons of jobs....most were "loljobs" that were nearly useless endgame. Let's not encourage them to do the same thing just because we want to see X job added to the game.
I don't think FFXIV will have the same problem as XI did - with the GCD combat system ala WoW, jobs are easier to balance, especially since they lack XI's subjobs. When a new job is added, they will always know what class it will grow out of, and can select any other classes it might draw abilities from, so they will know exactly which abilities will be available to it and how it measures up against other jobs. Like WoW, it is going to be easier to think in terms of general roles filled in a raid (Tank, Healer, DPS) moreso than particular jobs, because all classes belonging to those roles will all be fairly balanced in regards to them.
Furthermore, there will be less adjustment time between the release of a new job and the community mastering it, since they will generally grow out of existing classes (unless they add new classes at the same time that they add new jobs growing from them, as they might in expansions or some such) - therefore they already have a familiar base of abilities to build upon. Especially since leveling a class to 50 currently means leveling all its jobs and all possible future jobs growing out of it to 50 simultaneously, I'm thinking there is going to be a high community demand for more jobs sooner than you'd think, and not just so that all the franchise classics are in.
Good observation. On top of the fact that the current system works on having multiple jobs per class, there are all of the vets who have their classes fully leveled whom they need to create something new for.
Although the VAST majority of those people who do have all max level classes also used dual-boxing PL for them >.>
Yes, let's not forget the legacy players - they will be the first ones pushing for additional jobs, I'm sure - good point.
As a legacy player with BRD at 50 and a few others imbetween i'm more than okay with waiting for new jobs. Quality >>>>>>quantity for me. Then again I didn't dual-box everything to max level....guess im old fashioned that way.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class.
Red mage... the PvP class =-) What works just ok in PvE often is awesome in PvP. Same with what sucks in PvP (like tanking) works well in PvE. All sorts of reasons to add Blue and Red mage we just may not have the whole picture yet.
Where oh where are barspells, spike spells, refresh, haste, bio, poison, silence, phalanx, fast cast passives, chainspell, slow, paralyze, I think on the beta forums that a few jobs were confirmed to be coming down the road, red mage was one of them.
Let's face it in ballista chainspell paralyze ruled, so did chainspell aspir on some unsuspecting blm. If I recall Paralyze was very OP in PvP.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class.
You get all arcanist skills plus 5 scholar skills plus 5 skills chosen from 2 other classes. Just fyi.
edit: and if RDM is a melee/magic class then couldnt my idea to make your own work with GLD?
I linked a very similar (though possibly less up to date) spreadsheet in another thread...I'm not seeing anywhere on there where it says "and 5 skills chosen from 2 other classes", where are you getting that information?
Sure you could try to make it work with GLD, but GLD is a tank and its skills are geared primarily for that, not dps - and it has a very small MP pool so you wouldn't be casting a ton of spells...nothing's stopping you from messing around with it solo but if you want to do challenging group content, I don't think such a combo would be viable.
Originally posted by svann I didnt play 1.0 enough to say for sure but by what Im reading in this thread it seems like you could make a RDM using arcanist or scholar plus some skills from other classes. You wouldnt have the name but you could have the game.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class.
You get all arcanist skills plus 5 scholar skills plus 5 skills chosen from 2 other classes. Just fyi.
edit: and if RDM is a melee/magic class then couldnt my idea to make your own work with GLD?
I linked a very similar (though possibly less up to date) spreadsheet in another thread...I'm not seeing anywhere on there where it says "and 5 skills chosen from 2 other classes", where are you getting that information?
Sure you could try to make it work with GLD, but GLD is a tank and its skills are geared primarily for that, not dps - and it has a very small MP pool so you wouldn't be casting a ton of spells...nothing's stopping you from messing around with it solo but if you want to do challenging group content, I don't think such a combo would be viable.
Im not sure where it came from but I think its common knowledge that classes can use 10 skills from other classes (at 50), and jobs get 5 skills from their job and 5 from other classes. Maybe someone else can cite a source or correct me if Im wrong.
GLD ---> PLD so having mana isnt too out there of an idea. They could always gear for mana, couldnt they? Ill admit I chose GLD as an example because they duel wield, and didnt consider they are a tank so might not fit. Maybe lancer then? Or pug? One thing I just noticed though is that by the current spreadsheet no class seems to be able to take any real THM damage spells. That might be a thorn that prevents RDM, but they could change things in 4 and there is also the arcanist that we know next to nothing of.
edit: to the question of whether classes can choose from 1 or 2 classes - on the spreadsheet notice most of the jobs have 2 other classes they can choose from. Only BLM and WHM dont seem to. Im guessing that its just missing information on the spreadsheet.
Comments
They would be dumb not to put red mage somewhere down the line as its one of the most popular Jobs in the series.
Yeah but the prob is.. it is a class that does the things that 2-3 other classes do, but not as good as any of them. At least in FFXI it was one of the best buffers. In XIV they already have some serious buffer classes. RDM DPS won't be greater than BLM. It's heals won't be greater than WHM. It's buffs won't be greater than Bards/Scholars.
Games shoot themselves in the foot with these hybrid classes, but then again you can never have too many healers. I am sure they will add both of these, but I have never seen the draw of the RDM.
Just wait then. Or skip it altogether. It seems 1.0 didn't settle well with you and you are a bit stuck on that.
Not sure what google + does FFXIV have a red mage wouldn't do for you that you are trying to get out of us?
I do expect a Red Mage at some point in the future, however I think it will be after they get some of the other Jobs in. All of the upcoming Jobs are probably going to be based around the current 30/15 class setup. Red Mage is more a combination of Gladiator, Conjurer, and Thaumeteurge; so that will be a difficult setup to decide without making it too easy to level to.
15/15/15 is too easy
30/15/15 is a possibility though.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
WELCOME TO RED MAGE.
Never really been the class you want long-term but (as you mentioned) they added some stuff in FFXI which made it nice.
I'm sure they can do similar for XIV.
The best answer one can give right now is - no, but probably eventually.
However, don't expect them, especially red mage, to be the uber-class they were in FFXI - they will be more limited.
I can't see how red mage would work in this when the class system itself allows the essential construction of a red mage in all but name. If it ever has an incarnation in XIV it will have to be unrecognisably different in order to be of any use.
Blue mage on the other hand could obviously be done eventually. I expect it will at some point.
Well in FF11 we had BRD COR RDM and later SCH and all of them were able to buff the pt at the same time i dont see why it couldnt work like that in FF14.
Just give RDM refresh and its all good anyways lol (maybe generating MP/TP)
Agreed for the most part, though I don't see why they can't be a melee support/buff dps in the way that bard is currently (in FFXIV) a ranged support/buffer dps.
I'm thinking they will have hybrid melee/magic abilities moreso than pure black or white spells plus melee - for instance, 'red lotus blade', a fiery sword attack, etc. - or perhaps they will have a class mechanic which allows them to switch between weapon enchants (enfire, enthunder, etc.) and each enchant changes the effects of a set of base melee weaponskills.
They could make it work just fine with the current system, if they were so inclined.
This wouldn't work - scholar is a job, so it will use arcanist skills and draw from maybe one other class. It's primarily a healer and if you add arcanist it is a healer with DoTs and possibly some debuffs - you'd still be missing a lot of the red mage kit there and playstyle would be more like a healer and less like a hybrid character, even if the other class you drew from was a melee class (which is highly unlikely for Scholar).
You could combine some class skills to make some kind of barely-hybrid, but then you probably aren't getting into any group that is pushing challenging content - that'd be what the jobs are geared for.
Still, I'm pretty confident there will eventually be some job geared to people who want this sort of hybrid job (hybrid melee/mage) in the game.
It'll be interesting to see exactly which class they chose to do it with. You could use Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, even Ninja if you really want to push it.
Honestly I think with Summoner and Scholar they should stop making jobs for a while. Let the playerbase get their hands on them and see how they play before making anything else.
FFXI's biggest flaws was that although it had tons of jobs....most were "loljobs" that were nearly useless endgame. Let's not encourage them to do the same thing just because we want to see X job added to the game.
Good observation. On top of the fact that the current system works on having multiple jobs per class, there are all of the vets who have their classes fully leveled whom they need to create something new for.
Although the VAST majority of those people who do have all max level classes also used dual-boxing PL for them >.>
Yes, let's not forget the legacy players - they will be the first ones pushing for additional jobs, I'm sure - good point.
2 other classes, but ok.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsPI9Wq6z6GwdHJEYmR0Qjk4QzV2SmYzVzhYTVdCSkE&pli=1#gid=0
You get all arcanist skills plus 5 scholar skills plus 5 skills chosen from 2 other classes. Just fyi.
edit: and if RDM is a melee/magic class then couldnt my idea to make your own work with GLD?
Where oh where are barspells, spike spells, refresh, haste, bio, poison, silence, phalanx, fast cast passives, chainspell, slow, paralyze, I think on the beta forums that a few jobs were confirmed to be coming down the road, red mage was one of them.
Let's face it in ballista chainspell paralyze ruled, so did chainspell aspir on some unsuspecting blm. If I recall Paralyze was very OP in PvP.
I linked a very similar (though possibly less up to date) spreadsheet in another thread...I'm not seeing anywhere on there where it says "and 5 skills chosen from 2 other classes", where are you getting that information?
Sure you could try to make it work with GLD, but GLD is a tank and its skills are geared primarily for that, not dps - and it has a very small MP pool so you wouldn't be casting a ton of spells...nothing's stopping you from messing around with it solo but if you want to do challenging group content, I don't think such a combo would be viable.
Im not sure where it came from but I think its common knowledge that classes can use 10 skills from other classes (at 50), and jobs get 5 skills from their job and 5 from other classes. Maybe someone else can cite a source or correct me if Im wrong.
GLD ---> PLD so having mana isnt too out there of an idea. They could always gear for mana, couldnt they? Ill admit I chose GLD as an example because they duel wield, and didnt consider they are a tank so might not fit. Maybe lancer then? Or pug? One thing I just noticed though is that by the current spreadsheet no class seems to be able to take any real THM damage spells. That might be a thorn that prevents RDM, but they could change things in 4 and there is also the arcanist that we know next to nothing of.
edit: to the question of whether classes can choose from 1 or 2 classes - on the spreadsheet notice most of the jobs have 2 other classes they can choose from. Only BLM and WHM dont seem to. Im guessing that its just missing information on the spreadsheet.