Guild Wars 2 only did a cheap lifetime subscription. They kept the price of game high and did digital sales mostly instead of box. To me, that was the price of game plus a lifetime subscription, but they marketed it as "buy to play". LoTRO had the same thing, only that in order to do that in that game you had to pay about $130. total for the lifetime subscription. Why not call LoTRO a B2P game with a high price-tag instead?
Anyways, there are many of us that still appreciate having to pay a monthly subscription because it is a show of support for a game you believe in, and it allows them to use those funds to bring out more content in the game as well.
If you are gullible enough to believe that you can get anything for free in this world, then you really need to re-evaluate your knowledge of how the world works.
I have been playing final fantasy XI since day one and still have an active account, That 11 year old game is still P2P and I could not be happier. The community has fewer members than it has over the last decade but all of the remaining members are serious about their game. Their is no cash shop and everything that is in the game can be attained by anyone who plays the game through hard work.
My wife and son are both addicted to several "Free to play" games and from what I have experienced first and second hand these games are generally devoid of actual in game content and are a complete cash grab. My son has spent more on a flash based game than I have on DCUO ( I tried to play DCUO as a F2P game and eventually went back to a sub seeing as I constantly ran out of money and did not have enough inventory space for my several sets of gear.) and FFXI combined in the last two years. He also plays Blacklight and Rift which both seem to get very expensive in spurts.
I guess my point is I would rather pay a set amount of money a month/year for a good game that provides a steady stream of content that generally takes more than a week to complete. (Using FFXI as an example) Sometimes the new content can take several weeks or even months to actually complete. I do not like the pay to win model or the F2P seeing as both of them are much more costly than an actual sub and generally provide much less content.
I have been playing final fantasy XI since day one and still have an active account, That 11 year old game is still P2P and I could not be happier. The community has fewer members than it has over the last decade but all of the remaining members are serious about their game. Their is no cash shop and everything that is in the game can be attained by anyone who plays the game through hard work.
My wife and son are both addicted to several "Free to play" games and from what I have experienced first and second hand these games are generally devoid of actual in game content and are a complete cash grab. My son has spent more on a flash based game than I have on DCUO ( I tried to play DCUO as a F2P game and eventually went back to a sub seeing as I constantly ran out of money and did not have enough inventory space for my several sets of gear.) and FFXI combined in the last two years. He also plays Blacklight and Rift which both seem to get very expensive in spurts.
I guess my point is I would rather pay a set amount of money a month/year for a good game that provides a steady stream of content that generally takes more than a week to complete. (Using FFXI as an example) Sometimes the new content can take several weeks or even months to actually complete. I do not like the pay to win model or the F2P seeing as both of them are much more costly than an actual sub and generally provide much less content.
Final fantasy Reborn is a really great Game.. its Triple A for real.. and there are alot of games like wow,,
Rift,Tera,Neverwinter,Guild wars 2 all had the potential to be bigger. but they only reason those games wont get as many sub is because world of warcraft is so old and known to all people that when they leave it well then they will return again after some time.
and Wildstar will be a nice game and also Final fantasy Reborn will, both games are much bigger then wow and have much more fun content
oh ye if u dont like a game because u have to sub Gtfo out.. cause its Worth it..
It will not be bigger than wow at its prime. No MMO will be probably. Except Blizzards second MMO but I doubt it will hold them all. That's mainly just because people loved WoW and will have to try the new one.
Rift managed to be pay to play for quite a while, and I believe their turning point was Storm Legion, which kind of screwed the game up for what I consider some crucial parts of the game. A high quality WoW clone and a half could work, and FFXIV seems different enough, anyway. Please let's not compare it to SW:TOR, it at least bothers to have a unique class system and isn't under NDA up until release.
Some games go or even start F2P, but some, mysteriously (EVE, UO, DF) stay P2P...
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Originally posted by Shatter30 This game will fail as a sub MMO. If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse.
Did you really write this?
You could write Star Wars on a turd and it would still be a turd. My point is: The IP barely matters when the people who made the game have no idea what they are doing and what people want. Who plays a game based on IP alone? The most hardcore fans of the IP, right? Well, that's still a minority. How many people do you know, have walls full of Star Wars figures, posters, every single Star Wars digital material released and such? That's the kind that will stick even if the product is crap. And that's a minority!
Support fact to your claims. Done worse how, exactly? If it's a WoW Clone, why does it have dynamic events? Why can I mix in abilities and spells from other classes? Why is there stat allocation? WoW Clone is such a god damn ignorant term that all the kids like to use so very loosely. It's not because you move around, press 1 to use the ability assigned to 1, and complete quests that it's a WoW Clone. It's an MMORPG Clone. Cause every single MMORPG has done that.
I love WoW, but it's brought some pretty clueless people to the genre.
Mark my words, this game will end up going f2p at some point, this day and age there won't be enough people paying and playing to support this, regardless of the FF title. I played the beta and I have yet to see what's so great about it.
So is FFXIV really going to be Subscription based? And if so will it have a cash shop? I'm finding it hard to believe. I don't think there's been a new triple A subscription based MMORPG since WoW in 2004.
.... SWTOR. EQ2. SWG, Age of Conan, LOTRO. I could go on. They went free to play later, but they all started out as Pay to Play
i will be playing it because it is sub based and the story actually engaging and i cant remember the last time i actually read a quest line since this game. lets not forget it will have console support and that should keep the numbers profitable
Originally posted by FireWalkWithme Mark my words, this game will end up going f2p at some point, this day and age there won't be enough people paying and playing to support this, regardless of the FF title. I played the beta and I have yet to see what's so great about it.
People... Please... Just stop.
It will never...ever...ever...ever go f2p.
FFXI is still p2p after 11 years and it's subs are lower than 50k probably. FFXIV will not go f2p. Not in 6 months. Not in 12 months. Not-in-ever.
This game has enough end game content at (second) launch (which none of the current MMO crop had at launch) that people will not only be subbed after the first month, but for a long period of time to complete the content. The good thing about this game relaunching is that it not only has to have content for 1-50, but endgame as well for the people with all maxed out classes. It has a TON of content at endgame. Oh, and it's pretty much bug free.
I can't promise the game will be good, I have no idea. But there is enough stuff to do, and knowing the company, I can guarantee this will never go f2p.
wow, do you live under a MMo Rock or something, ohh never mind you mentioned WoW so I guess that's a yes? This is the only other sub MMo you've ever seen... I think you spent too much time in the other one.
Yeah guess it's not free huh... but hey if it were free I'm sure this would be a discussion about how they shouldn't make the cash shop OP for the ones that support the game in that manor. You know by giving the ones buying things in it good items that might be better then what you can get?
/moves off to the next tired thread
Aint that some truth? Freeloaders who have no intention to pay for anything bitching about cash shops being fair for them and not the people spending money. Then come here and question why this game isn't free for them too.
Originally posted by Shatter30 This game will fail as a sub MMO. If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse.
TOR couldnt survive as a sub MMO cause it was sub-PAR. Get the point? In order for people to be willing to pay to play, it has to be top notch and have a seemingly endless list of things to do. Thats why Rift failed, Tera failed, TOR failed, SWTOR failed. They were all sub par and or didn't have enough to do at end game(mainly cause they all let people rush to end game)
When WoW first came out, it took semi-hardcore people like 1-2 months to hit cap. Which means casuals would be taking like 6 months or longer. Then you got into the raids. Which WoW had plenty at release. And i'm counting the now 5man dungeons as raids cause they were. Nowadays however, a semi-hardcore can get cap in 4-5 days and there's only 1.5 raids to do at max for 4-6 months. No ones gonna pay for that shit.
Originally posted by Shatter30 This game will fail as a sub MMO. If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse.
TOR couldnt survive as a sub MMO cause it was sub-PAR. Get the point? In order for people to be willing to pay to play, it has to be top notch and have a seemingly endless list of things to do. Thats why Rift failed, Tera failed, TOR failed, SWTOR failed. They were all sub par and or didn't have enough to do at end game(mainly cause they all let people rush to end game)
When WoW first came out, it took semi-hardcore people like 1-2 months to hit cap. Which means casuals would be taking like 6 months or longer. Then you got into the raids. Which WoW had plenty at release. And i'm counting the now 5man dungeons as raids cause they were. Nowadays however, a semi-hardcore can get cap in 4-5 days and there's only 1.5 raids to do at max for 4-6 months. No ones gonna pay for that shit.
WoW had no end game. I dont know where you are getting your info but all WoW had at release was low level dungeons and raiding the other factions cities. We waited months for molten core to be added. That was the only end game. And servers were so unstable they were handing out weeks of free game time to try and keep people happy. I often wonder how WoW did so well at the start. My only guess was the easy quests to level with was a fun new way to level.
Rift and SWToR had way more end game at launch then WoW ever had.
Originally posted by Shatter30 This game will fail as a sub MMO. If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse.
TOR couldnt survive as a sub MMO cause it was sub-PAR. Get the point? In order for people to be willing to pay to play, it has to be top notch and have a seemingly endless list of things to do. Thats why Rift failed, Tera failed, TOR failed, SWTOR failed. They were all sub par and or didn't have enough to do at end game(mainly cause they all let people rush to end game)
When WoW first came out, it took semi-hardcore people like 1-2 months to hit cap. Which means casuals would be taking like 6 months or longer. Then you got into the raids. Which WoW had plenty at release. And i'm counting the now 5man dungeons as raids cause they were. Nowadays however, a semi-hardcore can get cap in 4-5 days and there's only 1.5 raids to do at max for 4-6 months. No ones gonna pay for that shit.
WoW had no end game. I dont know where you are getting your info but all WoW had at release was low level dungeons and raiding the other factions cities. We waited months for molten core to be added. That was the only end game. And servers were so unstable they were handing out weeks of free game time to try and keep people happy. I often wonder how WoW did so well at the start. My only guess was the easy quests to level with was a fun new way to level.
Rift and SWToR had way more end game at launch then WoW ever had.
WoW had BRD/LBRS/UBRS/DM/Mauradon and MC at launch. You never played WoW at launch if you think MC wasnt at launch because it was. Onyxia and BWL came months later. But MC was at launch. And those "low" dungeons were actually pretty challenging to do, mostly cause people were dumb even back then and would always fuck up certain areas, like the eggs in UBRS. But they took a long time to complete. Thus they were a raid(since they were 10man)
You talking about launch woes falls on deaf ears. Every game goes through them. Also no game experienced the insane amount of people at launch that WoW did back then. So yes WoW had epic levels of a fail-launch, but thats due to the amount of people trying to play that it was literally not possible for them to expect that high of a number.
Edit: Forgot to add Scholo/Strat. Probably a couple others.
Also no game experienced the insane amount of people at launch that WoW did back then.
Even though WoW has so many players it did not experience "an insane amount of people at launch", it's playerbase grew over-time. If anything there were substantially less people playing at launch than many modern MMO's with millions of players in the first few weeks. WoW did not start with millions of players, lol.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
FFXI is still going strong with a sub after a decade... why shouldn't FFXIV go sub route?
You guys do know that even with only players from Japan, the game would still be a "success" to them, they don't even NEED the western audiences to stay profitable.
SWTOR's end game was one of the major factors in its plummet. You play through this amazing story, then suddenly you reach the end and the magical story / character growth ends and you're left with a gear grind.
I disagree with any notion that a subscription cannot work. Honestly, how often do people decide to play a game because it's F2P? Sure, you might try it. When I heard Rift was F2P, I didn't touch it. Rift, EQ2, LotRO, DnD, SWTOR, the list goes on. I didn't want to play the game before hand. The game goes F2P, but the game itself hasn't changed. I don't play MMOs because of cost. I play it for the fun of the game. So if the game is the same, only free, it's not going to make me want to play it any more than previous. Even Guild Wars 2, which I played at launch. I don't touch it, because the game isn't of interest to me.
I have no issues paying a subscription for a game I find enjoyable. None whatsoever. If the game is solid, I'll gladly pay a subscription. If it's not worth it, I'll cancel. Whatever, $15. I spend $10 at Chipotle every time I go.
I think anyone who dismisses subscription right off the bat as outdated or antiquated is foolish. Gamers will go to the games that are worth playing. If FFXIV is worthy of play, people will play it; subscription or not. People quit SWTOR because of the game, not the subscription.
SWTOR's end game was one of the major factors in its plummet. You play through this amazing story, then suddenly you reach the end and the magical story / character growth ends and you're left with a gear grind.
I really think we should squash this myth that SW:TOR had a good leveling game or amazing story. SW:TOR had a terrible leveling game that was vastly inferior to Vanilla WoW, and the story was OK at best. I didn't quit on SW:TOR because of the endgame, I've never seen it. I quit on SW:TOR because it had horribly designed claustrophobic zones, copy-pasted WoW talent system, poor-looking artstyle/graphics that also put pressure on the PC, limited leveling paths, highly linear questing system, and a bunch of mechanics that broke grouping.
SW:TOR was a bad game from beginning to end, there was absolutely nothing good about it, and that includes the story. It doesn't matter what endgame it had because it was never worth playing in any capacity. This was NOT true for Vanilla WoW. Vanilla WoW had a solid, long leveling game that you could thoroughly enjoy.
The fact that people think it's an example of sub games failing is preposterous... it's like pointing at DNF and saying FPS games are not profitable...
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
SWTOR's end game was one of the major factors in its plummet. You play through this amazing story, then suddenly you reach the end and the magical story / character growth ends and you're left with a gear grind.
I really think we should squash this myth that SW:TOR had a good leveling game or amazing story. SW:TOR had a terrible leveling game that was vastly inferior to Vanilla WoW, and the story was OK at best. I didn't quit on SW:TOR because of the endgame, I've never seen it. I quit on SW:TOR because it had horribly designed claustrophobic zones, copy-pasted WoW talent system, poor-looking artstyle/graphics that also put pressure on the PC, limited leveling paths, highly linear questing system, and a bunch of mechanics that broke grouping.
SW:TOR was a bad game from beginning to end, there was absolutely nothing good about it, and that includes the story. It doesn't matter what endgame it had because it was never worth playing in any capacity. This was NOT true for Vanilla WoW. Vanilla WoW had a solid, long leveling game that you could thoroughly enjoy.
The fact that people think it's an example of sub games failing is preposterous... it's like pointing at DNF and saying FPS games are not profitable...
/offtopic
What happened to DNF/DFO anyway? I used to play it a lot about a year ago. I went to try and play the other day and it was removed from nexon's website? :O
/ontopic
Eff F2P for a major, AAA title. Works really well for smaller/indie devs though....that is all
Comments
Guild Wars 2 only did a cheap lifetime subscription. They kept the price of game high and did digital sales mostly instead of box. To me, that was the price of game plus a lifetime subscription, but they marketed it as "buy to play". LoTRO had the same thing, only that in order to do that in that game you had to pay about $130. total for the lifetime subscription. Why not call LoTRO a B2P game with a high price-tag instead?
Anyways, there are many of us that still appreciate having to pay a monthly subscription because it is a show of support for a game you believe in, and it allows them to use those funds to bring out more content in the game as well.
If you are gullible enough to believe that you can get anything for free in this world, then you really need to re-evaluate your knowledge of how the world works.
*edited for clarity*
I have been playing final fantasy XI since day one and still have an active account, That 11 year old game is still P2P and I could not be happier. The community has fewer members than it has over the last decade but all of the remaining members are serious about their game. Their is no cash shop and everything that is in the game can be attained by anyone who plays the game through hard work.
My wife and son are both addicted to several "Free to play" games and from what I have experienced first and second hand these games are generally devoid of actual in game content and are a complete cash grab. My son has spent more on a flash based game than I have on DCUO ( I tried to play DCUO as a F2P game and eventually went back to a sub seeing as I constantly ran out of money and did not have enough inventory space for my several sets of gear.) and FFXI combined in the last two years. He also plays Blacklight and Rift which both seem to get very expensive in spurts.
I guess my point is I would rather pay a set amount of money a month/year for a good game that provides a steady stream of content that generally takes more than a week to complete. (Using FFXI as an example) Sometimes the new content can take several weeks or even months to actually complete. I do not like the pay to win model or the F2P seeing as both of them are much more costly than an actual sub and generally provide much less content.
Best first post ever? Yes.
Final fantasy Reborn is a really great Game.. its Triple A for real.. and there are alot of games like wow,,
Rift,Tera,Neverwinter,Guild wars 2 all had the potential to be bigger. but they only reason those games wont get as many sub is because world of warcraft is so old and known to all people that when they leave it well then they will return again after some time.
and Wildstar will be a nice game and also Final fantasy Reborn will, both games are much bigger then wow and have much more fun content
oh ye if u dont like a game because u have to sub Gtfo out.. cause its Worth it..
Rift managed to be pay to play for quite a while, and I believe their turning point was Storm Legion, which kind of screwed the game up for what I consider some crucial parts of the game. A high quality WoW clone and a half could work, and FFXIV seems different enough, anyway. Please let's not compare it to SW:TOR, it at least bothers to have a unique class system and isn't under NDA up until release.
Some games go or even start F2P, but some, mysteriously (EVE, UO, DF) stay P2P...
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Yeah so is Trion, if you haven't realized.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Did you really write this?
You could write Star Wars on a turd and it would still be a turd. My point is: The IP barely matters when the people who made the game have no idea what they are doing and what people want. Who plays a game based on IP alone? The most hardcore fans of the IP, right? Well, that's still a minority. How many people do you know, have walls full of Star Wars figures, posters, every single Star Wars digital material released and such? That's the kind that will stick even if the product is crap. And that's a minority!
Support fact to your claims. Done worse how, exactly? If it's a WoW Clone, why does it have dynamic events? Why can I mix in abilities and spells from other classes? Why is there stat allocation? WoW Clone is such a god damn ignorant term that all the kids like to use so very loosely. It's not because you move around, press 1 to use the ability assigned to 1, and complete quests that it's a WoW Clone. It's an MMORPG Clone. Cause every single MMORPG has done that.
I love WoW, but it's brought some pretty clueless people to the genre.
I hate current teenagers.
#truestory
.... SWTOR. EQ2. SWG, Age of Conan, LOTRO. I could go on. They went free to play later, but they all started out as Pay to Play
People... Please... Just stop.
It will never...ever...ever...ever go f2p.
FFXI is still p2p after 11 years and it's subs are lower than 50k probably. FFXIV will not go f2p. Not in 6 months. Not in 12 months. Not-in-ever.
This game has enough end game content at (second) launch (which none of the current MMO crop had at launch) that people will not only be subbed after the first month, but for a long period of time to complete the content. The good thing about this game relaunching is that it not only has to have content for 1-50, but endgame as well for the people with all maxed out classes. It has a TON of content at endgame. Oh, and it's pretty much bug free.
I can't promise the game will be good, I have no idea. But there is enough stuff to do, and knowing the company, I can guarantee this will never go f2p.
Aint that some truth? Freeloaders who have no intention to pay for anything bitching about cash shops being fair for them and not the people spending money. Then come here and question why this game isn't free for them too.
LOL.
TOR couldnt survive as a sub MMO cause it was sub-PAR. Get the point? In order for people to be willing to pay to play, it has to be top notch and have a seemingly endless list of things to do. Thats why Rift failed, Tera failed, TOR failed, SWTOR failed. They were all sub par and or didn't have enough to do at end game(mainly cause they all let people rush to end game)
When WoW first came out, it took semi-hardcore people like 1-2 months to hit cap. Which means casuals would be taking like 6 months or longer. Then you got into the raids. Which WoW had plenty at release. And i'm counting the now 5man dungeons as raids cause they were. Nowadays however, a semi-hardcore can get cap in 4-5 days and there's only 1.5 raids to do at max for 4-6 months. No ones gonna pay for that shit.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
if people want to pay for a average game good luck to them,i refuse to
support any average games anymore.
WoW had no end game. I dont know where you are getting your info but all WoW had at release was low level dungeons and raiding the other factions cities. We waited months for molten core to be added. That was the only end game. And servers were so unstable they were handing out weeks of free game time to try and keep people happy. I often wonder how WoW did so well at the start. My only guess was the easy quests to level with was a fun new way to level.
Rift and SWToR had way more end game at launch then WoW ever had.
WoW had BRD/LBRS/UBRS/DM/Mauradon and MC at launch. You never played WoW at launch if you think MC wasnt at launch because it was. Onyxia and BWL came months later. But MC was at launch. And those "low" dungeons were actually pretty challenging to do, mostly cause people were dumb even back then and would always fuck up certain areas, like the eggs in UBRS. But they took a long time to complete. Thus they were a raid(since they were 10man)
You talking about launch woes falls on deaf ears. Every game goes through them. Also no game experienced the insane amount of people at launch that WoW did back then. So yes WoW had epic levels of a fail-launch, but thats due to the amount of people trying to play that it was literally not possible for them to expect that high of a number.
Edit: Forgot to add Scholo/Strat. Probably a couple others.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Even though WoW has so many players it did not experience "an insane amount of people at launch", it's playerbase grew over-time. If anything there were substantially less people playing at launch than many modern MMO's with millions of players in the first few weeks. WoW did not start with millions of players, lol.
FFXI is still going strong with a sub after a decade... why shouldn't FFXIV go sub route?
You guys do know that even with only players from Japan, the game would still be a "success" to them, they don't even NEED the western audiences to stay profitable.
Because Western MMO players despise proper dev support on their MMO.
SWTOR's end game was one of the major factors in its plummet. You play through this amazing story, then suddenly you reach the end and the magical story / character growth ends and you're left with a gear grind.
I disagree with any notion that a subscription cannot work. Honestly, how often do people decide to play a game because it's F2P? Sure, you might try it. When I heard Rift was F2P, I didn't touch it. Rift, EQ2, LotRO, DnD, SWTOR, the list goes on. I didn't want to play the game before hand. The game goes F2P, but the game itself hasn't changed. I don't play MMOs because of cost. I play it for the fun of the game. So if the game is the same, only free, it's not going to make me want to play it any more than previous. Even Guild Wars 2, which I played at launch. I don't touch it, because the game isn't of interest to me.
I have no issues paying a subscription for a game I find enjoyable. None whatsoever. If the game is solid, I'll gladly pay a subscription. If it's not worth it, I'll cancel. Whatever, $15. I spend $10 at Chipotle every time I go.
I think anyone who dismisses subscription right off the bat as outdated or antiquated is foolish. Gamers will go to the games that are worth playing. If FFXIV is worthy of play, people will play it; subscription or not. People quit SWTOR because of the game, not the subscription.
FFXI had awful support. I think the devs for that game secretly hated the players.
I really think we should squash this myth that SW:TOR had a good leveling game or amazing story. SW:TOR had a terrible leveling game that was vastly inferior to Vanilla WoW, and the story was OK at best. I didn't quit on SW:TOR because of the endgame, I've never seen it. I quit on SW:TOR because it had horribly designed claustrophobic zones, copy-pasted WoW talent system, poor-looking artstyle/graphics that also put pressure on the PC, limited leveling paths, highly linear questing system, and a bunch of mechanics that broke grouping.
SW:TOR was a bad game from beginning to end, there was absolutely nothing good about it, and that includes the story. It doesn't matter what endgame it had because it was never worth playing in any capacity. This was NOT true for Vanilla WoW. Vanilla WoW had a solid, long leveling game that you could thoroughly enjoy.
The fact that people think it's an example of sub games failing is preposterous... it's like pointing at DNF and saying FPS games are not profitable...
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
/offtopic
What happened to DNF/DFO anyway? I used to play it a lot about a year ago. I went to try and play the other day and it was removed from nexon's website? :O
/ontopic
Eff F2P for a major, AAA title. Works really well for smaller/indie devs though....that is all