ITT: People with no imagination who seem to think OP's suggestion literally means an exact copy of EVE in a fantasy environment as opposed to an adaptation of its focus and features, based on EVE's alluring territorial conflict and consequence-based world with both PvE and PvP with harsh penalties to create a supply and demand economy.
Ultima Online 2: Dark Age of Shadowbane
Lol. Good summary. Although i miss somewhat the smooth action oriented combat system in the 3 games above. But as i don't know any good mmorpg with a good action combat system the "2" part have to stand for that.
@VengeSunsour: Of course it is not that simple. Combat is indeed a bit more. But to call combat "action based" is just feature of a feature... the pace of combat, the targeting system of combat and maybe some evade mechanics. Other things may be converted very well.
As example. In EvE combat it is all about fitting your ship. Look for different weapon systems (Weapons) and different ways to migrate damage (Armor). The system could be converted, but of course you can not have space ships.
But that as example. Heavy blunt weapons(big ass two handed Slashhammer) are better against heavy armor (plate mail), whereas a light piercing weapons (like rapier) are better against light armor (surcoat). This equipment choices would have to relate with the more action prinicple, like moving/dodging faster with the light armor, in comparsion to heavy combat. This is more or less done in "War of the Roses", and was somewhat done in DAoC.
And in a similar manner you could convert a lot of EvEs parts of combat into a fantasy more action oriented combat system.
And nevertheless.. combat will not change the overall mood, will not change the core elements, which define EvE.
I notice no one has brought up Mortal Online or Darkfall. I'm just going to say it. It has been done, and none of you came or stayed. So why bother doing it again?
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
ITT: People with no imagination who seem to think OP's suggestion literally means an exact copy of EVE in a fantasy environment as opposed to an adaptation of its focus and features, based on EVE's alluring territorial conflict and consequence-based world with both PvE and PvP with harsh penalties to create a supply and demand economy.
You are wonderful.
Originally posted by DocBrody
OP
you are talking about EQ Next?
For this thread I'm pondering more generally, but yeah, I did get the idea from everything I've read about EQ Next. Smedley seems to be a huge EVE fan.
I wouldn't really say he's an sandbox fan at all. Just a developer that realizes all these people are playing sub-par games, which means that the audience and/or convertible audience is larger than is the current player base.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
We have imagined it. IN fact there are games made to fill that void already. They just...don't. For one, they tend not to take economy as seriously as CCP did (they hired real world economists for this). For another the combat mechanics never seem to hold up and there aren't enough ways to ease a player into the game or offer them havens to be safe from FFAPVP
Originally posted by Konfess I notice no one has brought up Mortal Online or Darkfall. I'm just going to say it. It has been done, and none of you came or stayed. So why bother doing it again?
Because, no, it hasn't been done. Neither of those games even begins to approach the quality and complexity of EVE.
ITT: People with no imagination who seem to think OP's suggestion literally means an exact copy of EVE in a fantasy environment as opposed to an adaptation of its focus and features, based on EVE's alluring territorial conflict and consequence-based world with both PvE and PvP with harsh penalties to create a supply and demand economy.
So imagination is copying bits of other games and cobbling them together...blizzard would agree with you wholeheartedly.
CCP could never do Eve any justice,they are imo a very weak developer.
I am surprised nobody has stepped up to take on EVE,would take much effort to make a better game.However after seeing STO ,and the enormous amount of money SWTOR spent on an average game,i have to conclude there just ins't enough good minds in this industry.Perhaps they spent too many hours in class room learning all the different computer languages and never had time to get in touch with real game development.
Even the great john Carmack avoided Microsoft licensing,he went OpenGL,so there always seems to be a catch,either a smart mind with no money or a rich entrepreneur with no mind for gaming.
Yes i could imagine Eve if done like a triple A MMO,it would be a really great game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It would be better to try a fantasy Planetside 1, than to repeat the mistakes of Darkfall.
A fantasy Planetside 1 remake would be:
PVP only.
Combined-arms warfare with melee weapons, stealth, archery, magic, heavy golems, mounted combat, siege weapons, and dragon-riders.
3 kingdoms to join, each with a few unique weapons/mounts.
10 massive continents to wage war over
12-16 castles per continent, with many smaller keeps and towers spread throughout
250 players per empire per continent (250v250v250) -- most fights you get into will be pop-locked by both sides, leading to epic multi-hour struggles where tactics and strategy really matter.
Skill focused. Lateral progression means that right from day 1 you're on the same competitive footing as your opponents -- you may not have access to as many different types of loadouts, but with the loadouts you do choose you're fighting at 100% effectiveness.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Lol wizardry, not bitter. Eve is probably the most successful and sophisticated mmorg on the market. 10 years, 2 expansions a year, full player driven economy, only game that has managed to balance hardcore pvp and pve. Btw real development requires constant learning of new languages and soft skills.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
CCP could never do Eve any justice,they are imo a very weak developer.
I am surprised nobody has stepped up to take on EVE,would take much effort to make a better game.However after seeing STO ,and the enormous amount of money SWTOR spent on an average game,i have to conclude there just ins't enough good minds in this industry.Perhaps they spent too many hours in class room learning all the different computer languages and never had time to get in touch with real game development.
Even the great john Carmack avoided Microsoft licensing,he went OpenGL,so there always seems to be a catch,either a smart mind with no money or a rich entrepreneur with no mind for gaming.
Yes i could imagine Eve if done like a triple A MMO,it would be a really great game.
No one has tried to out-do Eve. The competition has been virtually non-existent. That is why Eve has lasted so long.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
ITT: People with no imagination who seem to think OP's suggestion literally means an exact copy of EVE in a fantasy environment as opposed to an adaptation of its focus and features, based on EVE's alluring territorial conflict and consequence-based world with both PvE and PvP with harsh penalties to create a supply and demand economy.
Bingo.
EVE Online perhaps has done well because space is easier world to develop graphically, and also it's carved it's own niche where there is little competition.
Even though I've become bored with fantasy MMORPGs (like many), I'd put it behind me and play the hell out of a game like this. I also think, if done well, it's success would shock a great many in the industry and of course on these forums.
So many people love the concept of EVE, but simply do not like "being a Space ship" in a Sci Fi setting.
Or are not really engaged by the rather boring EvE combat or both. Yeap.. i can imagine that a lot of people would be interesting playing it. Me included.
Indeed!
Could even be Sci-fi or modern day/near future TPS, eve has almost everything right, except those afore mentioned parts, i didn't like being "a ship" nor the utterly boring combat.
Originally posted by arieste One problem is that you can't decorate an endless number of overland zones with the same 100 distant stars and 20 space-station graphics. It just doesn't work.
They (devs) can't......you can.
They should introdice vast wastelands and let people build their stuff.
I am sure many clans/guilds/whatever would jump on the sandbox and build villages, keeps as it would be 'theirs'.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
It would become garbage. Adding something to combat would be interesting, but turning it into action based combat would kill the game in larger battles.
But I do welcome anyone that tries to make a game like this on a different setting - would be interesting to see but there is already WoD in development from a company that already shows results.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol wizardry, not bitter. Eve is probably the most successful and sophisticated mmorg on the market. 10 years, 2 expansions a year, full player driven economy, only game that has managed to balance hardcore pvp and pve. Btw real development requires constant learning of new languages and soft skills.
That what he said!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write. So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.
So in other words... massive sandbox with a healthy population of PVE and PVP players. But with swords, magic, castles, etc.
Thoughts?
action combat would ruin it.
eve is about tactics not ability to click fast. particularly not in tidi and 1000 v 1000 fights or bigger.
cycle casting works good for eve, no need to change. in fact its one of very few MMOs to use cycle casting and parallel casting.
you really want to fire all 8 turrets manually every shot one by one ?
Good MMO combat consists of 3 layers
-strategical
-tactical
-execution
Many people confuse action combat with fast clicking, but its more about reacting to the things that happen, about movement and choosing positions...<
It would not attract the same players, but adding a good ballanced combat system with all 3 components above would not make it a different game.. just the combat would be more active, but not at the cost of tactics and strategy. face it, a fantasy world has different needs then a space MMO.
Personally i am wondering how they would translate all teh other stuff that makes EVE so good intoo a fantasy world... So would you say that your ship would be like your armor, or would it be more like a company of soldiers you are commanding?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
So in other words... massive sandbox with a healthy population of PVE and PVP players. But with swords, magic, castles, etc.
Thoughts?
Isn't this basically what Darkfall is?
If Darkfall was even remotely close to the production quality of EVE, it would be known... ;-)
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eve is probably the most successful and sophisticated mmorg on the market.
Blizzard and a few others laugh all the way to the bank when they read this.
Eve is definitely successful, but not even remotely close of being "most". It's the most successful SANDBOX MMO, yeah, on that I could agree.
About Darkfall and MO comments. Both don't even have half of the features of EvE, nor do they assembly the complexity, nor is the quality production anywhere near to EvE. And in the case of MO, it isnt even barely playable.
About Pathfinder Online.. yeap on Paper it is very similar to EvE, and could be somewhat like the OP described.. although i doubt Pathfinder will have a action combat system.. not that much known about it yet. And another question.. are they capable of producing a quality mmo. Can they realize their design on paper into a breathing, living world, which is not bug ridden like hell, or with just half of the features they want to have? All this remains to be seen.
Edit/PS: About the successful comment. You can discard "a few others", because in MMO space there is noone laughing about EvE. Smedly adore how EvE worked out and a lot of other do the same. And how many companies were growing from a staff of 24 to over 600? And all that because of one game?
And a lot of you maybe didn't realize that one. 500 k sub is more or less 2 million sold copies a year. And no other mmo is growing constantly since 10 years. Not even WoW did accomplish that one.. although WoW is a complete different level and you can't compare WoW with anything else.
Originally posted by ThisIsEd This seems to be Pathfinder Online.
Yes:
1) Skill-Training
2) Hex-Based world map "analogous" to star system of territorial control though each hex can be different "security status" aka "lawfulness".
3) Economy-driven gameplay
4) Even Pricing model is similar with plex equivalent
5) The equiping of characters is sort of similar idea also in terms of value of what you are using on the avatar.
6) ... a few more too eg player factions, single-server world map...
It's not going to be actiony combat however (tech, cost, scaling up numbers in combat atst etc) - and in fact there's an argument to be had over who is drawn to actiony combat and the current wow-style standard. That said, I think they need to do something innovative/different from that as everyone has played that for years.
Throw in the good things from Eve, add what people loved about RTS games and create a dark creepy fantasy core world around that. resource wars here we come.
then add another layer around that gives people access to the lore and PvE. like portals to other places and time to get their PvE experience with stories and quests and stuff like that... However here is the trick, the ofworld adventuring is in essence nothing but the resource gathering in safe zones, but how do you get those resources back home or to the open market? You could decide to sell the stuff at your safe spot, for much less then its value in the open world. You could call in your friends to protect you while traveling home..
Anyway, its all a matter of how you translate the main ingredients...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
Lol. Good summary. Although i miss somewhat the smooth action oriented combat system in the 3 games above. But as i don't know any good mmorpg with a good action combat system the "2" part have to stand for that.
@VengeSunsour: Of course it is not that simple. Combat is indeed a bit more. But to call combat "action based" is just feature of a feature... the pace of combat, the targeting system of combat and maybe some evade mechanics. Other things may be converted very well.
As example. In EvE combat it is all about fitting your ship. Look for different weapon systems (Weapons) and different ways to migrate damage (Armor). The system could be converted, but of course you can not have space ships.
But that as example. Heavy blunt weapons(big ass two handed Slashhammer) are better against heavy armor (plate mail), whereas a light piercing weapons (like rapier) are better against light armor (surcoat). This equipment choices would have to relate with the more action prinicple, like moving/dodging faster with the light armor, in comparsion to heavy combat. This is more or less done in "War of the Roses", and was somewhat done in DAoC.
And in a similar manner you could convert a lot of EvEs parts of combat into a fantasy more action oriented combat system.
And nevertheless.. combat will not change the overall mood, will not change the core elements, which define EvE.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I wouldn't really say he's an sandbox fan at all. Just a developer that realizes all these people are playing sub-par games, which means that the audience and/or convertible audience is larger than is the current player base.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Because, no, it hasn't been done. Neither of those games even begins to approach the quality and complexity of EVE.
So imagination is copying bits of other games and cobbling them together...blizzard would agree with you wholeheartedly.
Really bad pve combat with little challenge. Little and bad pve content.
I will pass.
CCP could never do Eve any justice,they are imo a very weak developer.
I am surprised nobody has stepped up to take on EVE,would take much effort to make a better game.However after seeing STO ,and the enormous amount of money SWTOR spent on an average game,i have to conclude there just ins't enough good minds in this industry.Perhaps they spent too many hours in class room learning all the different computer languages and never had time to get in touch with real game development.
Even the great john Carmack avoided Microsoft licensing,he went OpenGL,so there always seems to be a catch,either a smart mind with no money or a rich entrepreneur with no mind for gaming.
Yes i could imagine Eve if done like a triple A MMO,it would be a really great game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It would be better to try a fantasy Planetside 1, than to repeat the mistakes of Darkfall.
A fantasy Planetside 1 remake would be:
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
No one has tried to out-do Eve. The competition has been virtually non-existent. That is why Eve has lasted so long.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Bingo.
EVE Online perhaps has done well because space is easier world to develop graphically, and also it's carved it's own niche where there is little competition.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Indeed!
Could even be Sci-fi or modern day/near future TPS, eve has almost everything right, except those afore mentioned parts, i didn't like being "a ship" nor the utterly boring combat.
They (devs) can't......you can.
They should introdice vast wastelands and let people build their stuff.
I am sure many clans/guilds/whatever would jump on the sandbox and build villages, keeps as it would be 'theirs'.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
It would become garbage. Adding something to combat would be interesting, but turning it into action based combat would kill the game in larger battles.
But I do welcome anyone that tries to make a game like this on a different setting - would be interesting to see but there is already WoD in development from a company that already shows results.
That what he said!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.
Isn't this basically what Darkfall is?
Good MMO combat consists of 3 layers
-strategical
-tactical
-execution
Many people confuse action combat with fast clicking, but its more about reacting to the things that happen, about movement and choosing positions...<
It would not attract the same players, but adding a good ballanced combat system with all 3 components above would not make it a different game.. just the combat would be more active, but not at the cost of tactics and strategy. face it, a fantasy world has different needs then a space MMO.
Personally i am wondering how they would translate all teh other stuff that makes EVE so good intoo a fantasy world... So would you say that your ship would be like your armor, or would it be more like a company of soldiers you are commanding?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
About Darkfall and MO comments. Both don't even have half of the features of EvE, nor do they assembly the complexity, nor is the quality production anywhere near to EvE. And in the case of MO, it isnt even barely playable.
About Pathfinder Online.. yeap on Paper it is very similar to EvE, and could be somewhat like the OP described.. although i doubt Pathfinder will have a action combat system.. not that much known about it yet. And another question.. are they capable of producing a quality mmo. Can they realize their design on paper into a breathing, living world, which is not bug ridden like hell, or with just half of the features they want to have? All this remains to be seen.
Edit/PS: About the successful comment. You can discard "a few others", because in MMO space there is noone laughing about EvE. Smedly adore how EvE worked out and a lot of other do the same. And how many companies were growing from a staff of 24 to over 600? And all that because of one game?
And a lot of you maybe didn't realize that one. 500 k sub is more or less 2 million sold copies a year. And no other mmo is growing constantly since 10 years. Not even WoW did accomplish that one.. although WoW is a complete different level and you can't compare WoW with anything else.
Yes:
1) Skill-Training
2) Hex-Based world map "analogous" to star system of territorial control though each hex can be different "security status" aka "lawfulness".
3) Economy-driven gameplay
4) Even Pricing model is similar with plex equivalent
5) The equiping of characters is sort of similar idea also in terms of value of what you are using on the avatar.
6) ... a few more too eg player factions, single-server world map...
It's not going to be actiony combat however (tech, cost, scaling up numbers in combat atst etc) - and in fact there's an argument to be had over who is drawn to actiony combat and the current wow-style standard. That said, I think they need to do something innovative/different from that as everyone has played that for years.
MMORPG.com:
Pathfinder Online (PFO)
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
then add another layer around that gives people access to the lore and PvE. like portals to other places and time to get their PvE experience with stories and quests and stuff like that... However here is the trick, the ofworld adventuring is in essence nothing but the resource gathering in safe zones, but how do you get those resources back home or to the open market? You could decide to sell the stuff at your safe spot, for much less then its value in the open world. You could call in your friends to protect you while traveling home..
Anyway, its all a matter of how you translate the main ingredients...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)