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Lack of options?
TLDR at bottom, btw.
Hi everyone. I have been looking for a good and unbiased place to make this post. Which is why I steered clear of Wildstar fansite forums. They are simply terrible for discussing anything, because anything you post that is not 100% in line with what the devs are giving you gets a huge amount of scorn. You can't discuss anything with only one side to every debate. So here's hoping that the audience here is slightly less glazed over with thoughtless fanboyism. Sorry for the rant, and now onto my topic.
I feel there is a serious lack of options for players in Wildstar. They want to cater to everyone, including hardcore raider types, but It seems to be very dumbed down in many aspects. We already know why they are implementing these elements the way they are, but knowing is only half the battle.
-Race and class combination options.
Wildstar as of yet has two unannounced classes, but even so, there seems to be a huge lack of options from my viewpoint. Here are the numbers currently.
Human - 4 classes, Granok - 1 class, Aurin - 3 classes, Mordesh - 3 classes
Cassian - 4 classes, Draken - 3 classes, Mechari - 2 classes, Chua - 2 classes
Total available released race and class combinations: 22
Again, there are two unreleased classes, so I will add them into the mix. I think we all know that not every race will be able to be both of these classes, but lets pretend that every single race can be both.
New total available race and class combinations at the absolute maximum: 38
Just for fun, total number of classic World of Warcraft class race combinations available at launch: 40
Launching a new MMORPG in this day and age that is supposed to contend with other major players and only launching with 6 classes seems a bit lackluster to me.
Aside from the total race and class combinations, there are certain instances where a player will be pigeonholed into either playing a class they don't want, or switching to a race they don't desire to play. Want to play a Granok? Better like being a warrior. That's literally your only option. Lore aside, that is simply dreadful. You're alienating every single player that wants to play Granok as a race, and doesn't want to play as a warrior. Want to play Chua? They have zero melee options. Zilch. I hope you enjoy casting, or playing as engineer which is supposedly one of the unreleased classes. Alright, they can't be warriors, I understand. Mind you I had great fun on many a small warrior in my lifetime (gnome war ftw). They can't be stalkers either. I guess their hands are too dainty to hold things such as weapons, but bombs and probably guns are A-OK. If you truly want options, the best way to do it is to roll a human as they can be everything released so far, and most likely both unreleased classes as well. I still don't see the appeal of humans, but to each their own.
Overall, this will definitely be one nail in the coffin for me.
-Weapon options.
One type of weapon only, per class. This may not seem like a huge deal, but try and ponder it for a moment and imagine yourself really playing the game. Are you happy only having a single weapon type and no other option for the entirety of your character's waking life? Lets say you roll a warrior. The only weapon type you will ever be able to equip out of all the loot you pick up, dungeon bosses you defeat, chests you open, etc will be a tech sword. You might claim that they will have many different skins for said sword, but I would like to counter with a sword is a sword is a sword. I don't see how anyone can honestly be in support of this lack of options. It's almost like they honestly believe that this is a good idea. 30 skills so I can swing my sword in 30 different ways? Perfect! When that beta feel wears off, these issues will be glaring.
...but they will add to the game after launch! There's nothing to worry about!
Bullshit. Utter bullshit. This is a company that is trying to get their foot into the door of the gaming world, and this is their flagship product under the guise of an MMORPG. Yes, the exact same type of game that has burned literally millions of players in the past. This type of gamer is likely to be hugely jaded, and will quickly dump any game around the end of the first month if the game is not up to speed. What is the ultimate bane of any MMORPG game? Lack, of, players. Lack of interest. Before they have a chance to fix their game, they will be judged, and people will drop it. You know about first impressions, right? It goes double, or even triple these days for this game type. If you don't hit everything perfectly upon launch, you've already failed. You might as well settle for sub-par or decent.
There is a stigma surrounding Wildstar. I'm not saying I agree with it, as I certainly don't, but it is there. Wildstar is another overly-stylized, cartoony looking WoW clone. Another failure of an MMORPG trying to get its nasty claws around the throats of consumers. The same game we see come out every few months from a different company that grabs players for first month, and then loses them in droves. Players look at Wildstar, and they take it at face value. Some of us know differently, but it's looking like a huge amount of people will not even spend time researching the game to find out what kind of potential it has.
Anyway, sorry for the long post and hurrah if you actually read through all of it. There are always things that we dislike about games that will be coming out, and there is simply no way to prevent that since everyone has different opinions of what makes a game great. These are currently two of the major issues for me, but I'm sure there will be plenty more as the game comes to release stage. If they plan to implement a cash shop I'll probably have a lot to hate about it, but that's just me. I'm mainly posting this to check and see if anyone else feels the same way about the direction Wildstar is headed in.
TLDR;
Wildstar has far less class/race options than even classic WoW had on release day, and many races have so few options that quite a few people will find themselves out of luck getting a race/class combo that they would be happy with. 6 classes is pretty low for the release of an MMORPG that is actually trying to compete in the market. One weapon per class seems very underwhelming, and I think players will tire quickly of this model.
Agree/disagree?
Comments
I completely agree with you on the race front. I too have a issue with all races not being able to play all classes. I love playing small characters and I really wanted to be a warrior... When I saw that the little fur balls could not play warriors it was a HUGE let down...
I'm really hoping that one of the new classes will be able to melee and tank and that Chuas will be able to play both classes.. But I really really doubt it.
As far as only 1 weapon, I haven't heard that one.. That just cannot be, I can't imagine they would do something as foolish as that?....
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
One weapon was a design choice so we could get actual animations that don't suck. Personally, I am more than fine with one weapon as you tend to get pigeon holed into a single weapon anyway.
As for the race/class those are not yet set in stone. Even in the current beta that has already switched a little. The opening everything up to everybody was something I found pretty absurd in WoW (Taurn and Blood Elf paladins, really?) and I like that limitation, especially since racials can be gotten by anyone.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
This is interesting if true.
I learned my lesson probably about a year ago " don't look into the marketing bull crap too soon ". Warhammer thought me that !
They are gonna play their marketing crap for several more months if not going into next year. Fun Fun videos have no baring on game play.
Were starving for an mmo, developers know that and will capitalize on it. FF14 is coming in August. So far It's seems like $30 for the game and $13 a month ( this is good ). So far no talks about that wicked cash shop !....I'm loosing respect with developers for Wildstar and any other game that keeps payment a secret !
"I completely agree with you on the race front. I too have a issue with all races not being able to play all classes. I love playing small characters and I really wanted to be a warrior... When I saw that the little fur balls could not play warriors it was a HUGE let down..."
I think its ok, an ogre for example shouldn't be a druid or such. and gnomes should forget being a warrior
WS has 6 classes with 2 unique roles = 12 specs
Everyone in classic WoW was pigeon holed into 1 spec.
Thus, WS actually has more.
There are 8 races and 6 classes with 2 roles each. There are 30 unique class/race combinations! How is that not enough?
There are some MMOs like TSW, Eve, ESO, etc... that pretty much only launch with one spec.
You get to do almost everything!
What is the magic number to compete in the MMO market?
Sounds like utter bollocks to me. There are far more pressing issues with current day MMOs than the number of races, which is why most recent MMOs fail.
1 Weapon is plenty.
Having more than one weapon is for show, and nothing more. It adds nothing to the game.
Reading the opening paragraph I expected some heavy duty critique of the game but these 2 issues are very much non issues for me regarding whether to actually buy the game, I suspect they may be for many others as well. I have at least never heard these reasons listen for anyone quitting / deciding not to get a game.
Regarding the game itself my judgement are still out, the vid's are fun yes but ultimately we know next to nothing about the actually gameplay or the state of the game and how many of the interesting features will actually play out.
I had an impression that "a final product" would feature all classes (or was it roles?) available to every race.
I would recommend just waiting til you actually can experience the game for yourself. Official videos tend to be misleading as hell, so don't base your opinion on them.
For weapons, they might have same deal GW2 has for classes.
Payment model, I would be surprised if it's something other than the standard P2P model with CS for vanity items. I.e. $XX for the game which includes one month prepaid then $14.99 (or whatever is the "standard") per month.
Cheers.
One weapon per class sounds a bit disappointing indeed.
which recent game I played had the same limitation? Don't remember. I do remember that I didn't link the limitation.
Haven't followed this game in details, because sometimes details are less important than for example the setting of the game.
But 6 classes sound a bit low indeed, even if each class has 2 roles. Let's first see how varied and unique those roles are.
There are 8 races and 6 classes with 2 roles each. There are 30 unique class/race combinations! How is that not enough?
There are some MMOs like TSW, Eve, ESO, etc... that pretty much only launch with one spec.
You get to do almost everything!
For most classes the only difference in weapon is aesthetics.
No one even looks at the weapons, they look at what gets them the better stats/dmg and use that.
Calm down! :-)
Let's be honest. 6 classes isn't much. The roles have not proven to be good yet, but I guess if the roles truly give a unique experience than it's cool.
It's more than aesthetics. By limiting to one weapon, you simply limit the range of weapons you can wear (duh). What I mean is that you will miss on other weapons with good and fitting stats. But I suppose it depends how they'll distribute the stats. I wouldn't be surprised they distribute class unique stats to. Stats that are only useful for one class. Otherwise it would make no sense. It will still be a loss though.
And aesthetics alone is a good argument as well.
Class =/= role. Modern games all include the feature to spec your class to different roles, and Wildstar looks like it's doing the same thing.
Weapons aren't shoehorned into the "real world" application anymore either. Plenty games allow you to throw you sword, making it a ranged weapon, or pistol whip with your gun, adding melee features.
Race-class restrictions add some flavor IMO. Or will we have complaints about healers not being able to tank and dps at the same time? Or that certain races are dominion only?
And by declaring WS to be a failure this early I can see why you got laughed out of the WS-centric forums.
I am perfectly calm. I am just trying to inject some rational logical thinking into this whine discussion.
No, 1 isn't much. 30 combinations is a shitload.
"The roles have not been proven to be good." That doesn't even make sense. Good by what standards? Why would you assume some of the roles are bad? Just so you can subtract them to further you pathetic argument of not enough variety? HA!
A good representation is the only standard that matters, and we won't know that until the game launches.
Limit the range of weapons you can wear? Ok! That is aesthetics. duh
You are not missing out on any distribution of stats. That doesn't even make sense! There wasn't a 2nd weapon to begin with; never mind a 2nd weapon with different stats.
WS is a game for old school raiding MMO fans.
We don't care if we are using 1h axe or a 1h sword. We always use what performs the best.
This game is appealing to a niche market, so don't expect them to make this game for everyone.Well to be fair, look at current day wow? Yeah... they destroyed that element of customization.
Still, it does seem to lack options from what I do see. While I'm sure there are more in depth elements to really allow customization, its how much it actually allows that will matter. Its a shame the game can't have more choices of classes or perhaps having the classes with just many varients like rift does with soul trees.
Its something I'm looking at for sure before I jump in guns blazing into the game expecting a long time investment in it. For me, class has always been one of the biggest elements in a game and something that really needs to be focused on. People don't mind imbalance as much if you have so much choice (particularly considering limiting classes STILL provides imbalance which no game has pulled off fixing, most instead homogenizing classes to try and do it and only weakening the 'flavor' of the class). Its always possible they will have much customization and other elements to really make each one stand out and give a sense of choice.
Speaking about completely missing the point...did I express myself so badly?
First of all my comments were not whine comments. It's just an opinion based on previous games I played.
Second I don't care about combinations. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else in the thread, I mean seriously, check it out before you answer.
If role one and two of each class resembles to each other and barely make any difference, than to me the roles are bad. That is why I said let's see how much variety they bring. Remember, that is what we were talking about? Variety? Options?
And the weapon thing...If there are 6 types of weapons in the game. And you can only wear one. But your favorite or useful stat appears regularly on 3 weapons, that limits your range of weapons and it's beyond aesthetics. It's ironic, because it's my way of thinking that actually encourages to not care about aesthetics, in contrast to what you seem to think. I'd much rather have overlapping weapon interests between classes, that create tension and interaction. That's just a personal feeling. But don't say it's only about aesthetics because you clearly don't think far.
30 unique choices
2 roles per class
60 unique race/roles
Your LAS has 8 buttons, and you have over 30 spells to choose from.
How is this not enough variety? What is the magic number of enough?
This is a hardcore raiding style game. You won't have 10 max level alts like in WoW.
Some class/gender aren't even available yet on beta. They will most likely unlock the other mix next big update.
I always hated the idea of gnome warrior, "insert big dump muscle monster name" being "mage/caster" or other stupid mix like this in any MMO. Not enough choice is bad too, but I prefer more "logic" class/race match.
As for the only one weapon per class, I don't really care since we can keep the look of any weapon and just swap some stats as we like. Like someone else said, I prefer nice animation over 10 different weapons and look at my avatar swing a polearm like it was a sword or a sledge hammer.
My main problem with the game so far is related to the path, which feel more like optional side-mission instead of being really important to our faction. The path choice need to have a bigger impact on our character.
The highlighted... really, come on man...
What is the problem? There is 1 spec those games. If you even get an option it doesn't matter, because in the end everyone gets to do everything equally.
I hate that style with a passion!
You havnt played ESO and your honestly saying EvE only has one spec???? TSW doesnt even have classes. And I dont even know where you all got your 30 unique classes.
4 known classes and 2 unknown. !!!!!!!!!!!!Thats 6 Classes!!!!!!!!!!!!....... You cant count the same class twice cause one is female and the other male, nor one has blue hair while the other is bald. Nor can you count Race even in WoW cause One freaking Skill on a long timer doesnt equal a new class. How long have you guys been playing games and you realy think a race changes your class?!?!?!??!....
To much fanboi dreaming in this thread.
So 6 Classes Total. Two ways to spec the class thats 12 Classes which is pushing the term classes. After all what game doesnt allow two ways to spec and play a class. SWTOR does, WAR does, AoC etc......And I think pretty much any themepark since WoW does. And a class that can either do Ranged dps or heal... lol many devs have tried that and very few players would spec healers. WAR had that issue and had to change things to get people to spec healer instead of dps.
I don't have to play ESO. The information is out there. You can get basically get nearly every skill. Wear any armor, and do anything. Same with Eve. Same with TSW.
I said 30 unique Class/races. That means there are on average 5 races per class.
5 * 6 = 30
Two different roles is the important factor, not specs. There are no pure dps or hybrids in this game.
Every therempark after WoW stunk, so I am not sure what argument you are making. WS needs to copy failure?
Class/Race Options: The fundamental problem with any class based system is honestly, what difference will a Gnome Warrior make vs. an Ogre Warrior. Let's be honest, race plays a big role in the earlier levels depending on the starting stats and/or racial abilities. However, as you hit mid to cap level; it is meaningless. To me, the race is nothing more than something I need to look at for 50 levels (or whatever cap may be). So I agree, I'd rather not be pidgeonholed into something I don't want to look at all the time.
Weapons: My problem with the whole "weapon" thing in MMOs is they pretty much are nothing more than stat sticks that you swing around and do damage with. Generally speaking a Sword with 10 Dmg and 100 Str is the same as a Spear, Hammer, or Dagger with the same stats. That's boring and bland.
Weapon Skills, manuevers, and Attacks should be based upon the weapon and the stance you're in. That would add a level of depth that most games don't have behind certain console game. GW2 was on the right track (even though I didn't really like their implementation...at least not completely)
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That being said, it is sad that race doesn't bear more importance like it should. A giant warrior should have very different aptitudes than a much shorter, but perhaps quicker, one. In a similar fight you would think that an Ogre would have a lower to-hit chance due to the slower swings of the weapon but would do greater damage per hit due to its increased size and strength (as compared to a Dwarf)
So wouldnt that mean WoW has 143 unique Class/Races.
Oh and role and specs are kinda the same. As in how you spec determines the role your class will take. For instance there site says esper can be ranged dps or healer. Kinda like WoWs priest.
Let me clear up a few things for you.
First of all, a question. Where did I say exactly that WS will fail? Quote it for me, thanks.
Next, I didn't get laughed out of any forum. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people starting discussions that aren't about how amazing this game is going to be and how everyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
Restrictions add flavor. Alright, I'm open to all kinds of opinions. I think there are more creative ways to add flavor to a game than creating needless restrictions, or if you're going to add restrictions, have enough options that it doesn't feel too restrictive. Also, I'm glad I'll be able to use my 2 handed sword in 30 different and interesting ways. What ever happened to the time when warrior players enjoyed having a variety of weapons available to them? Warriors that enjoyed feeling like masters of many types of weaponry. It's almost like the games these days are designed by algorithms of how players should enjoy playing the game, even when that means limiting everything to almost nil, rather than knowledgeable devs innovating or expanding on old ideas.
I guess bright, shiny, simple is the new way to make games.
Good post, and well said.