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Lack of options?

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  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 711
    Originally posted by Ozivois
    Originally posted by Roguewiz

    Class/Race Options:  The fundamental problem with any class based system is honestly, what difference will a Gnome Warrior make vs. an Ogre Warrior.  Let's be honest, race plays a big role in the earlier levels depending on the starting stats and/or racial abilities.  However, as you hit mid to cap level; it is meaningless.  To me, the race is nothing more than something I need to look at for 50 levels (or whatever cap may be).  So I agree, I'd rather not be pidgeonholed into something I don't want to look at all the time.

    Weapons:  My problem with the whole "weapon" thing in MMOs is they pretty much are nothing more than stat sticks that you swing around and do damage with.  Generally speaking a Sword with 10 Dmg and 100 Str is the same as a Spear, Hammer, or Dagger with the same stats.  That's boring and bland.

    Weapon Skills, manuevers, and Attacks should be based upon the weapon and the stance you're in.  That would add a level of depth that most games don't have behind certain console game.  GW2 was on the right track (even though I didn't really like their implementation...at least not completely)

    That being said, it is sad that race doesn't bear more importance like it should. A giant warrior should have very different aptitudes than a much shorter, but perhaps quicker, one. In a similar fight you would think that an Ogre would have a lower to-hit chance due to the slower swings of the weapon but would do greater damage per hit due to its increased size and strength (as compared to a Dwarf)

    Therein lies the problem:  In any gear grind game, gear quickly offsets any penalty and/or benefit, from a stat standpoint.  If you have racials, it comes down to how powerful the benefit is, or if it is too powerful.  Balancing becomes a problem.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a system where race plays a bigger role.  DnD did it with Racial Level Adjustments.  However, there must be reasons for people to play the "lesser" races.

    Raquelis in various games
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    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • IsawaIsawa Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by zeeshzun

    -Race and class combination options.

     Want to play a Granok? Better like being a warrior. That's literally your only option. Lore aside, that is simply dreadful. You're alienating every single player that wants to play Granok as a race, and doesn't want to play as a warrior.

    -Weapon options.

    One type of weapon only, per class.

    ... Some of us know differently, but it's looking like a huge amount of people will not even spend time researching the game to find out what kind of potential it has.

    Agree/disagree?

    I'd suggest spending more time actually researching information other than scanning over the official site. Plenty of other sources with information from developers out there! That's not "literally" the only option for Granok. The other classes, which the Granok will be able to play both of, haven't been revealed - anyone "literally" following the game would know this image

    I've responded to similar weapon options comments several times. It really just depends on how great the aesthetics are. I'll examine one class, the 2 handed sword yielding warrior will be using weapons resembling axes and bludgeoning weapons as well. They have belt items like grenades and flash bangs. They have an arm attachment weapon, with different skins, that provides various forms of attack. So...there are actually 2 weapons for warriors.

    Although you have valid arguments, I'd personally prefer at least 1 more class per race and greater weapon variety, I don't feel like you actual looked into much. Your entire assessment can be made from reviewing the official race/class pages. That is far from researching anything, as you mention. So I disagree with your "research", but I agree with your underlining points.

  • jimprounerjimprouner Member Posts: 142
    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

    So wouldnt that mean WoW has 143 unique Class/Races. 

     

    Oh and role and specs are kinda the same. As in how you spec determines the role your class will take. For instance there site says esper can be ranged dps or healer. Kinda like WoWs priest.

    Idk, I don't play WoW anymore.  That number sounds about right I guess. 

    But WoW has been out for nearly a decade, and has had 4 expansions.

     

    Quality over quantity imo.

     

    Roles and specs are not the same.

    Specs fill roles in the raid. 

     

    A hunter in wow for instance has 3 specs, but only 1 role.

    A priest has 2 heal specs, and 1 dps spec.  That is 2 roles.

     

    WS gives you a LAS with way more skills than buttons.  That means you can alter your spec a lot, way more than WoW will let you.  You can be an AoE healer, or a single target healer, or even a mix of the two.

  • zeeshzunzeeshzun Member Posts: 13
    I'd suggest spending more time actually researching information other than scanning over the official site. Plenty of other sources with information from developers out there! That's not "literally" the only option for Granok. The other classes, which the Granok will be able to play both of, haven't been revealed - anyone "literally" following the game would know this image

    I've responded to similar weapon options comments several times. It really just depends on how great the aesthetics are. I'll examine one class, the 2 handed sword yielding warrior will be using weapons resembling axes and bludgeoning weapons as well. They have belt items like grenades and flash bangs. They have an arm attachment weapon, with different skins, that provides various forms of attack. So...there are actually 2 weapons for warriors.

    Although you have valid arguments, I'd personally prefer at least 1 more class per race and greater weapon variety, I don't feel like you actual looked into much. Your entire assessment can be made from reviewing the official race/class pages. That is far from researching anything, as you mention. So I disagree with your "research", but I agree with your underlining points.

    Well, for the record I did actually mention that Granok might be able to be the two unannounced classes, so I don't really see how that point of mine was uninformed. I have been following every single Wildstar video posted to youtube, a couple of fansites, reddit, and other forums such as this one, but it is still possible that I have missed some things. You also can't refute what I'm saying about warrior being the only current available class that Granok have, because it's not an opinion of mine, it's concrete at this moment. I'll assure you that I am as knowledgeable on this game as I need to be to start a valid discussion, but thanks for the concern.

    I'm very interested in the later part of your post however. I didn't know about grenades for warriors, but thinking back on how nearly every class in WoW, and many other classes in other games can use grenades and bomb consumables of various sorts, I'm not super interested in that aspect. Other than that, I believe you're talking about the temporary shield when you say there's an arm attachment weapon? It seems to pop up during certain defensive manuevers, but is hardly permanent. If I'm mistaken, please elaborate.

  • slikeytreslikeytre Member UncommonPosts: 40
    Im fine with the Race class combos.... Im not ok with the only 1 weapon per class.... That seems short sighted...  I do love the look of this game and have read up on it but never looked this in depth. Thanks for your eye opener post, i hope it inspires change.
  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by slikeytre

    Im fine with the Race class combos.... Im not ok with the only 1 weapon per class.... That seems short sighted...  I do love the look of this game and have read up on it but never looked this in depth. Thanks for your eye opener post, i hope it inspires change.

     

    It is merely graphics. Who cares? It should be the absolute lowest priority to any MMO fan. Besides, as another poster pointed out there is no reason that the 2h Sword can't take on the image of an axe or mace. Pistols can take on lots of different shapes too! There is so much variety even with 1 weapon type that I don't understand this complaint!
  • zero462usazero462usa Member Posts: 26

    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.

     

    TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by zero462usa

    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint. TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you...
    Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.
  • zero462usazero462usa Member Posts: 26

    Ok, here's an actual argument.

     

    Why cheap out and only do half the shit of what you could be doing? Why break immersion like this? Why not just do what you company will be getting paid for, quality content?

     

    because they're a fail company who doesn't have anything quality anymore. nevermind, that's not an argument.

  • weedman81weedman81 Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Originally posted by zeeshzun

    Agree/disagree?

    disagree

    Race, class and weapons can be added later, what i care about is the core of how this game would work, right now i feel they are trying to do too much to impress while using "change" as their campaign slogan and not having enough resources/time/creativity to back it up.

     

    if a game with just 1 single race and class and is still fun to play, that's a winner,  giving cosmetics that are only skin-deep won't really help a game with core issues and dynamic problems. Try any asian mmorpg, they all look cool on video, but once you get into it, you will see its the same old lady you been seeing just with new makeups done.

     

    I think you really care about this game and thus has given this much thought into it, i think anybody that read your post and replied show the same care and we want this game to succeed.

     

    P.S. I also want a race/class/gender combination that would work best to suit me, but for a fun game, i am willing to play any race/class/gender like i did with mario bros. 

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by zero462usa

    Ok, here's an actual argument. Why cheap out and only do half the shit of what you could be doing? Why break immersion like this? Why not just do what you company will be getting paid for, quality content? because they're a fail company who doesn't have anything quality anymore. nevermind, that's not an argument.

     

    The phrase 'Immersion Breaking' is an opinion that people throw around as an argument. It has no meaning! Cheap out? You don't know the anything about the variety of the weapon animations. Multiple weapons don't even make sense within this game!

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons, but that isn't the case here. For instance, a 1h axe could maybe be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless!

  • IsawaIsawa Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by zeeshzun
    ...

    Well, for the record I did actually mention that Granok might be able to be the two unannounced classes, so I don't really see how that point of mine was uninformed. I have been following every single Wildstar video posted to youtube, a couple of fansites, reddit, and other forums such as this one, but it is still possible that I have missed some things. You also can't refute what I'm saying about warrior being the only current available class that Granok have, because it's not an opinion of mine, it's concrete at this moment. I'll assure you that I am as knowledgeable on this game as I need to be to start a valid discussion, but thanks for the concern.

    I'm very interested in the later part of your post however. I didn't know about grenades for warriors, but thinking back on how nearly every class in WoW, and many other classes in other games can use grenades and bomb consumables of various sorts, I'm not super interested in that aspect. Other than that, I believe you're talking about the temporary shield when you say there's an arm attachment weapon? It seems to pop up during certain defensive manuevers, but is hardly permanent. If I'm mistaken, please elaborate.

    You could very well be better informed, just the information presented in the opening post revolves around a couple pages of information :)

    As to your question, this video features the warrior's arm cannon/sawblade/attachment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qo5nrkYYI0 at 0:19, 0:39, and a different model at 2:04. Several shots of warrior's throughout with the arm attachment. Even with that, still 1 primary weapon per class in a variety of skins.

     

     

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,069
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa

    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.

     

    TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

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  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa
    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.   TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

     

    No offense grandpa, but the sandbox genre is rightfully all but dead. I for one, am glad. The stuff you are talking about doesn't sound fun or interesting. It sounds boring and tedious. But I understand, that is all PCs were capable of back then. Things change though, and now our PCs are extremely powerful! This has enabled our MMOs to be lively, active, and most importantly fun.
  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,180
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa

    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.

     

    TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

     

    No offense grandpa, but the sandbox genre is rightfully all but dead. I for one, am glad. The stuff you are talking about doesn't sound fun or interesting. It sounds boring and tedious. That is all PCs were capable of back then though. Now our PCs are extremely powerful, and our MMOs have are able to be lively, active, and most importantly fun.

    "To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... " -Wildaboutwildstar
     

    No offence, Jim.. but you meet all the signs of rabid fanboy.

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by Xarko

    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa
    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.   TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

     

    No offense grandpa, but the sandbox genre is rightfully all but dead. I for one, am glad. The stuff you are talking about doesn't sound fun or interesting. It sounds boring and tedious. That is all PCs were capable of back then though. Now our PCs are extremely powerful, and our MMOs have are able to be lively, active, and most importantly fun.

    "To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... " -Wildaboutwildstar
     

    No offence, Jim.. but you meet all the signs of rabid fanboy.

     

    Touche sir. Problem is what I was saying wasn't merely opinion. The sandbox genre has one foot in the grave, and the other is on wet grass.

    I am a rabid fanboy, because I am telling you that sandbox games should stay dead in the past?
  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,180
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Xarko
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa

    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.

     

    TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

     

    No offense grandpa, but the sandbox genre is rightfully all but dead. I for one, am glad. The stuff you are talking about doesn't sound fun or interesting. It sounds boring and tedious. That is all PCs were capable of back then though. Now our PCs are extremely powerful, and our MMOs have are able to be lively, active, and most importantly fun.

    "To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... " -Wildaboutwildstar
     

    No offence, Jim.. but you meet all the signs of rabid fanboy.

     

    Touche sir. Problem is what I was saying wasn't merely opinion. The sandbox genre has one foot in the grave, and the other is on wet grass.

     

    I am a rabid fanboy, because I am telling you that sandbox games should stay dead in the past?

    No its a result of a whole week observation ;D.

    Sandbox idd seems to have a one foot in the grave, but saying its boring is an opinion an nothing else. I think thats because there was probably only one good game you could call sandbox in a last decade. Im not really all that much into sandboxes myself, but more and more devs are trying to do something like "Sandpark" now, including Wildstar devs. That means there must be something good about sandboxes right ? :)

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by Xarko

    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Xarko
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa
    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.   TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

     

    No offense grandpa, but the sandbox genre is rightfully all but dead. I for one, am glad. The stuff you are talking about doesn't sound fun or interesting. It sounds boring and tedious. That is all PCs were capable of back then though. Now our PCs are extremely powerful, and our MMOs have are able to be lively, active, and most importantly fun.

    "To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... " -Wildaboutwildstar
     

    No offence, Jim.. but you meet all the signs of rabid fanboy.

     

    Touche sir. Problem is what I was saying wasn't merely opinion. The sandbox genre has one foot in the grave, and the other is on wet grass.

     

    I am a rabid fanboy, because I am telling you that sandbox games should stay dead in the past?

    No its a result of a whole week observation ;D.

    Sandbox idd seems to have a one foot in the grave, but saying its boring is an opinion an nothing else. I think thats because there was probably only one good game you could call sandbox in a last decade. Im not really all that much into sandboxes myself, but more and more devs are trying to do something like "Sandpark" now, including Wildstar devs. That means there must be something good about sandboxes right ? :)

     

    It is an opinion, but it seems to be a quite popular opinion. Major game devs won't touch them with a 10ft pole, and the ones that are on the market are obscure. I don't really see much of what I would call sandbox in WS or any recent Triple A game. What elements are Sandbox like in WS?
  • IsawaIsawa Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    ...

     

    It is an opinion, but it seems to be a quite popular opinion. Major game devs won't touch them with a 10ft pole, and the ones that are on the market are obscure. I don't really see much of what I would call sandbox in WS or any recent Triple A game. What elements are Sandbox like in WS?

    To make it simple, the devs have made the game less restricting than some recent themepark games. The devs say their game has some sandbox elements, which is pretty much saying they have more content and options than some other themeparks.

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by Isawa
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    ...

     

    It is an opinion, but it seems to be a quite popular opinion. Major game devs won't touch them with a 10ft pole, and the ones that are on the market are obscure. I don't really see much of what I would call sandbox in WS or any recent Triple A game. What elements are Sandbox like in WS?

    To make it simple, the devs have made the game less restricting than some recent themepark games. The devs say their game has some sandbox elements, which is pretty much saying they have more content and options than some other themeparks.

     

    That is called PR BS.

    In the end the only thing that matters is raiding.

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Member UncommonPosts: 1,729
    Originally posted by jimprouner
    Originally posted by zeeshzun

    TLDR;

    Wildstar has far less class/race options than even classic WoW had on release day, and many races have so few options that quite a few people will find themselves out of luck getting a race/class combo that they would be happy with. 6 classes is pretty low for the release of an MMORPG that is actually trying to compete in the market. One weapon per class seems very underwhelming, and I think players will tire quickly of this model.

    Agree/disagree?

    WS has 6 classes with 2 unique roles = 12 specs

    Everyone in classic WoW was pigeon holed into 1 spec.

    Thus, WS actually has more.

     

    There are 8 races and 6 classes with 2 roles each.  There are 30 unique class/race combinations!  How is that not enough?

    There are some MMOs like TSW, Eve, ESO, etc... that pretty much only launch with one spec. 

    You get to do almost everything!

     

    What is the magic number to compete in the MMO market? 

    Sounds like utter bollocks to me.  There are far more pressing issues with current day MMOs than the number of races, which is why most recent MMOs fail.

     

    1 Weapon is plenty. 

    Having more than one weapon is for show, and nothing more.  It adds nothing to the game.

    Lol wut.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-LoL

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,069
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by zero462usa

    It's just stupid, that's the problem with the one weapon complaint.

     

    TO HAVE 1 WEAPON IS JUST STUPID

     

    To you maybe, but who cares about your opinion? Only you... Make an actual argument if you want to be taken seriously.

    Long ago and far way, weapons were better.  No seriously, they were.

    They used to do multiple types of damage, such as crush, slash, and pierce.  This was important because each was more effective against certain armor types, neutral to others and deficient against yet a 3rd.  (Armor came in many flavors, including cloth, leather, studded, chain, and plate, each with strengths and weakness to various damage types)

    Now add in the effect of stats on the above weapons, dexterity impacted pierce, strength affected crush, and slash sort of sat in the middle of the two stats.  So depending on where you character was the strongest in stats, determined which weapons you really should be using, though you could decide to use another type if the situation required it.

    Each race had different stats starting out, and players could allocate a small pool of points to improve the stats of their choosing, of course at the cost of other skills. Some folks kept them balanced, others through them all in one direction to optimize their damage.

    Finally, weapon speed mattered, faster weapons hit more, but did less damage, and of course slower weapons such as 2 handers and polearms did terrific damage, if....they landed.

    Through in armor stats that could improve the rates which the above performed, and could be used to help offset any deficiencies your character may have had, and you really had a rich system which provided lots of variety and many hours of fun and frustration trying to get your spec right.

    But at no point was it every boring, and no, everyone didn't build the exact same templates, there were just too many arguments made for so many of the alternatives.  (EVE was not the first MMO to require the extensive use of spreadsheets as part of the metagame)

    Seeing the discussion here in this thread makes me realize many player have completely missed out on such complexity in their MMO's and don't realize how much more they can be, if only developers will take the time to invest in them.

    Oh yeah, they can make them look cool too..... as if that every really mattered ...... image

     

     

    No offense grandpa, but the sandbox genre is rightfully all but dead. I for one, am glad. The stuff you are talking about doesn't sound fun or interesting. It sounds boring and tedious. But I understand, that is all PCs were capable of back then. Things change though, and now our PCs are extremely powerful! This has enabled our MMOs to be lively, active, and most importantly fun.

    LOL, the mechanics described above are in DAOC, which really has never been considered a sandbox style game by anyone who has a clue.

    Speaking of which, its pretty obvious you certainly aren't grasping the point or understand the above mechanics added such complexity to combat, and your lively, active "fun" combat has been reduced to mindless button pushing on a limited selection of keys.

    But go ahead and enjoy your "one weapon" might as well just bend over and say "thank you sir, may I please have another"

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    LOL, the mechanics described above are in DAOC, which really has never been considered a sandbox style game by anyone who has a clue.

    Speaking of which, its pretty obvious you certainly aren't grasping the point or understand the above mechanics added such complexity to combat, and your lively, active "fun" combat has been reduced to mindless button pushing on a limited selection of keys.

    But go ahead and enjoy your "one weapon" might as well just bend over and say "thank you sir, may I please have another"

     

    That just means it had sandbox elements in it.  

    Complexity my ass.  These games merely had the illusion of being complex and difficult.  In reality their mechanics were watered down to the point of being meaningless and all the 'challenges' were merely tedious tasks that took a long time to complete.  It was all an illusion! 

  • zeeshzunzeeshzun Member Posts: 13
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    LOL, the mechanics described above are in DAOC, which really has never been considered a sandbox style game by anyone who has a clue.

    Speaking of which, its pretty obvious you certainly aren't grasping the point or understand the above mechanics added such complexity to combat, and your lively, active "fun" combat has been reduced to mindless button pushing on a limited selection of keys.

    But go ahead and enjoy your "one weapon" might as well just bend over and say "thank you sir, may I please have another"

     

    That just means it had sandbox elements in it.  

    Complexity my ass.  These games merely had the illusion of being complex and difficult.  In reality their mechanics were watered down to the point of being meaningless and all the 'challenges' were merely tedious tasks that took a long time to complete.  It was all an illusion! 

    No, no it wasn't.

    Besides, you weren't even there, how would you know? You probably grew up on WoW.

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Member Posts: 38
    Originally posted by zeeshzun
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    LOL, the mechanics described above are in DAOC, which really has never been considered a sandbox style game by anyone who has a clue.

    Speaking of which, its pretty obvious you certainly aren't grasping the point or understand the above mechanics added such complexity to combat, and your lively, active "fun" combat has been reduced to mindless button pushing on a limited selection of keys.

    But go ahead and enjoy your "one weapon" might as well just bend over and say "thank you sir, may I please have another"

     

    That just means it had sandbox elements in it.  

    Complexity my ass.  These games merely had the illusion of being complex and difficult.  In reality their mechanics were watered down to the point of being meaningless and all the 'challenges' were merely tedious tasks that took a long time to complete.  It was all an illusion! 

    No, no it wasn't.

    Besides, you weren't even there, how would you know? You probably grew up on WoW.

    Sorry, but that is just nostalgia talking. 

    Sort of like when Faux News talk about the golden 50s in the US.

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