... You people obviously don't care about details because you haven't seen a working version of the actual game and are just jumping to conclusions and wild accusations based on speculation . It's sad. "Gosh this doesn't feel like eq" how would you know ? Have you seen actual gameplay and not just a tech demo ? Has all the details been fleshed out and we know everything there is to know about the game? No. So you don't have any clue how it "feels " like
Now if we have a franchise that has a legacy stretching for over 10 years that we as fans have invested hard earned money in and respect. One would think that the devs would hear our cry from below and listen so that the game they are making is a success. Not just any success, but the real competition with which every mmo tries to live up to.
But here it is....
the core...
EQ was all about mana management and buffs that could last a good while. Now if the buffs lasting a while is thrown out the window....there will actually be no difference between EQ franchise and other actual classics.
Well you talk about their 10 year franchise and how they owe it to their loyal base....then go on to talk about what made eq great and what they need to do to recapture eq.....
What about eq2? What about legends of norrath?
I think there are a lot of folks, and correct me if I'm wrong....who think this game should emulate eq - be a successor or re-birth of EQ.
It isn't supposed to be that at all. It is suppose to be new. And sure there are resemblances to GW2; but there are so many things that aren't....
The destructable world....vertical content (air, land, subterranean) -
Skills accessed through discovery...
Extensive tool set for player created content...
But to me....
the core...
I don't know enough to formulate any opinion on whether I will like this game - and if it turns out not to be designed to be my new home for years - but rather a casualish game - I'll play it as intended - and if fun, I'll enjoy it. But won't create hopes and expectations about it being my new "EQ" reborn - they never told me it would be. They never told me it would be like EQ at all, in fact what they told me is it is NEW, not a resurrection.
Wasn't EQN described for some time as a reimagining of EQ1? Maybe you don't know what that means but it sure doesn't mean we plan on changing every damn thing about the game.
I literally can't think of a single structural mechanism that is similar to EQ1, its literally as different as an MMO could possibly be.
It's truly amazing what you can learn when you read the dictionary....
reimagining -
1. to imagine again or anew; especially to form a new conception of
2. re-create
similar-
Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.
(of figures) Having the same shape, with the same angles and proportions, though of different sizes.
So which part of that did you not understand? Reimagining is EXACTLY, by it's definition, what that means.
Ya, put down the bong. Even by the definition that you posted its clear that this is not a reimagining of everquest in any form. Reimagining means to create a similar product with SOME changes, not every single mechanic.
The amount of change in this product from its historical predecessors is akin to making a Friday the 13th (whatever number) sequel and deciding that your going to "reimagine it" as a romantic comedy. Anyone that has a historical interest in the product line has every right to feel that cynical about the marketing and the misleading nature of the naming of the product.
Ummm.... reimagining does not always mean to recreate with subtle differences. You can reimage something to the point that the overall tone is slightly familiar while places/names/events are completely different. Hollywood does this all the time. Comic Books do the same from time to time.
Hell, even Video Games - Fallout ring a bell?
What reality are you living in? When they remade the hulk movie was the hulk now a telapath who goes around fighting white collar crime? When they remain the spider man movies was spider now a meglomeniacal anti hero chick who was half spider/half human?
Give one example of a reimagining that is even close to the complete opposite of all the previous versions like this?
Nobody was expecting EQ1 with updated graphics, but this is rediculous.
Now if we have a franchise that has a legacy stretching for over 10 years that we as fans have invested hard earned money in and respect. One would think that the devs would hear our cry from below and listen so that the game they are making is a success. Not just any success, but the real competition with which every mmo tries to live up to.
But here it is....
the core...
EQ was all about mana management and buffs that could last a good while. Now if the buffs lasting a while is thrown out the window....there will actually be no difference between EQ franchise and other actual classics.
Well you talk about their 10 year franchise and how they owe it to their loyal base....then go on to talk about what made eq great and what they need to do to recapture eq.....
What about eq2? What about legends of norrath?
I think there are a lot of folks, and correct me if I'm wrong....who think this game should emulate eq - be a successor or re-birth of EQ.
It isn't supposed to be that at all. It is suppose to be new. And sure there are resemblances to GW2; but there are so many things that aren't....
The destructable world....vertical content (air, land, subterranean) -
Skills accessed through discovery...
Extensive tool set for player created content...
But to me....
the core...
I don't know enough to formulate any opinion on whether I will like this game - and if it turns out not to be designed to be my new home for years - but rather a casualish game - I'll play it as intended - and if fun, I'll enjoy it. But won't create hopes and expectations about it being my new "EQ" reborn - they never told me it would be. They never told me it would be like EQ at all, in fact what they told me is it is NEW, not a resurrection.
Wasn't EQN described for some time as a reimagining of EQ1? Maybe you don't know what that means but it sure doesn't mean we plan on changing every damn thing about the game.
I literally can't think of a single structural mechanism that is similar to EQ1, its literally as different as an MMO could possibly be.
It's truly amazing what you can learn when you read the dictionary....
reimagining -
1. to imagine again or anew; especially to form a new conception of
2. re-create
similar-
Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.
(of figures) Having the same shape, with the same angles and proportions, though of different sizes.
So which part of that did you not understand? Reimagining is EXACTLY, by it's definition, what that means.
Ya, put down the bong. Even by the definition that you posted its clear that this is not a reimagining of everquest in any form. Reimagining means to create a similar product with SOME changes, not every single mechanic.
The amount of change in this product from its historical predecessors is akin to making a Friday the 13th (whatever number) sequel and deciding that your going to "reimagine it" as a romantic comedy. Anyone that has a historical interest in the product line has every right to feel that cynical about the marketing and the misleading nature of the naming of the product.
Ummm.... reimagining does not always mean to recreate with subtle differences. You can reimage something to the point that the overall tone is slightly familiar while places/names/events are completely different. Hollywood does this all the time. Comic Books do the same from time to time.
Hell, even Video Games - Fallout ring a bell?
What reality are you living in? When they remade the hulk movie was the hulk now a telapath who goes around fighting white collar crime? When they remain the spider man movies was spider now a meglomeniacal anti hero chick who was half spider/half human?
Give one example of a reimagining that is even close to the complete opposite of all the previous versions like this?
Nobody was expecting EQ1 with updated graphics, but this is rediculous.
What you are referring to are 'remakes'
Re-imaging: 10 Things I Hate About You. It was a re-imaging of Shakespeares 'The Taming of the Shrew'
And again, Fallout - Bethesda's version totally changed the story, characters and fundamental mechanics. Completely different game from the original.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Now if we have a franchise that has a legacy stretching for over 10 years that we as fans have invested hard earned money in and respect. One would think that the devs would hear our cry from below and listen so that the game they are making is a success. Not just any success, but the real competition with which every mmo tries to live up to.
But here it is....
the core...
EQ was all about mana management and buffs that could last a good while. Now if the buffs lasting a while is thrown out the window....there will actually be no difference between EQ franchise and other actual classics.
Well you talk about their 10 year franchise and how they owe it to their loyal base....then go on to talk about what made eq great and what they need to do to recapture eq.....
What about eq2? What about legends of norrath?
I think there are a lot of folks, and correct me if I'm wrong....who think this game should emulate eq - be a successor or re-birth of EQ.
It isn't supposed to be that at all. It is suppose to be new. And sure there are resemblances to GW2; but there are so many things that aren't....
The destructable world....vertical content (air, land, subterranean) -
Skills accessed through discovery...
Extensive tool set for player created content...
But to me....
the core...
I don't know enough to formulate any opinion on whether I will like this game - and if it turns out not to be designed to be my new home for years - but rather a casualish game - I'll play it as intended - and if fun, I'll enjoy it. But won't create hopes and expectations about it being my new "EQ" reborn - they never told me it would be. They never told me it would be like EQ at all, in fact what they told me is it is NEW, not a resurrection.
Wasn't EQN described for some time as a reimagining of EQ1? Maybe you don't know what that means but it sure doesn't mean we plan on changing every damn thing about the game.
I literally can't think of a single structural mechanism that is similar to EQ1, its literally as different as an MMO could possibly be.
It's truly amazing what you can learn when you read the dictionary....
reimagining -
1. to imagine again or anew; especially to form a new conception of
2. re-create
similar-
Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.
(of figures) Having the same shape, with the same angles and proportions, though of different sizes.
So which part of that did you not understand? Reimagining is EXACTLY, by it's definition, what that means.
Ya, put down the bong. Even by the definition that you posted its clear that this is not a reimagining of everquest in any form. Reimagining means to create a similar product with SOME changes, not every single mechanic.
The amount of change in this product from its historical predecessors is akin to making a Friday the 13th (whatever number) sequel and deciding that your going to "reimagine it" as a romantic comedy. Anyone that has a historical interest in the product line has every right to feel that cynical about the marketing and the misleading nature of the naming of the product.
Ummm.... reimagining does not always mean to recreate with subtle differences. You can reimage something to the point that the overall tone is slightly familiar while places/names/events are completely different. Hollywood does this all the time. Comic Books do the same from time to time.
Hell, even Video Games - Fallout ring a bell?
What reality are you living in? When they remade the hulk movie was the hulk now a telapath who goes around fighting white collar crime? When they remain the spider man movies was spider now a meglomeniacal anti hero chick who was half spider/half human?
Give one example of a reimagining that is even close to the complete opposite of all the previous versions like this?
Nobody was expecting EQ1 with updated graphics, but this is rediculous.
No in those movies they didn't change the main character, the Hulk was still the Hulk and Spiderman was still Spiderman. Just like in EQ Next.. Norrath is still Norrath. I'm looking forward to the changes they are making, I'm getting tired of the same ole game with a new skin. I don't want to go backwards to how EQ was.. I want to move forward into new experiences.
Also what about PvP? non of this has been really talked much about.
I think the pvp reveals are going to be crazy and rustle a lot of jimmies. The devs have hinted they have some really cool ideas planned, especially when it comes to the destruction of player owned houses and items in pvp. I don't think it's gonna be as traditional and carebear as many people are expecting, at least not on the pvp servers.
Also what about PvP? non of this has been really talked much about.
I think the pvp reveals are going to be crazy and rustle a lot of jimmies. The devs have hinted they have some really cool ideas planned, especially when it comes to the destruction of player owned houses and items. I don't think it's gonna be as traditional and carebear as many people are expecting, at least on the pvp servers.
Well Dave has already stated that player owned property cannot be touched without that players permission, So we know destroying player housing will not be an option. That is unless the rules are different on PvP servers.
I think it might have more to do with guild warfare...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I played EQ1 from beta up untill right before EQ2 came out... I just felt I needed a break from it before the new installment. EQ2 was a big disappointment when it first came out. However due to the fact I loved Norrath so much I returned years later to try to re explore the game and found great enjoyment there.
Over the years I have played now what seems countless MMOs or at least tried them. Some were fun. Some not so much. Throughout it all there EQ1 definately holds that one spot for me that I always look back to. I realize many times I'm looking back through rose colored glasses. But I constantly find myself making comparisons to the wonderful game and world of EQ1.
I have been watching and waiting for the next installment of EQ since before it was dubbed EQNEXT. As the story developed and Smed would talk about it. I started speculating like many others what the next installment would bring.
This last weekend we got our "teaser" because in all honesty that's what it was. I like many others was a bit shocked at the cartoony characters at least at first. However i actually admit to liking the style somewhat so that really isnt going to be a problem. Anyway I listened at what they were doing with some of the core principles of the game and in all honesty like what I am seeing.
I don't feel mislead. Everytime I read about EQNEXT, it was clear this is not going to be the EQ1 or 2. However it will have familiar places and people in it.
Now all the doom and gloom speculation that's going on in these forums is pretty ridiculous. All the talk of its going to be GW2.75 is absurd. Why? Because we just don't know from a "teaser" that has been given. All this talk of lack of roles which definately did not come from the developers they said the exact opposite. That players could still play roles, but were not forced into them or dependent upon having to rely on them, is also just crazy.
In closing from an EQ1 and 2 fan. I will say I like what I see currently. Not all EQ fans feel jaded or mislead. At least the ones who actually listened to what's been said up untill this point. Now I will sit back and wait for more information to be released and take part in round table discussions to try to be constructive in the games development, instead of being like so many we have seen here who seem to only want to be destructive and spread doom and gloom over a game we still really know very little about.
Let me first say this is still a game in development. SOE can still hear and listen to gamers who only want for the future of the game to be great.
This is kind of a call to arms, maybe e-mailing them with buckets of mail will help, but I know the system they currently have "Roundtable" is almost like a "hot or not" style in which players don't actually give anything constructive to the conversation.
There are other companies out there listening to the players as they build the game and even modifying some of it as they go based on player input.
I, as a player would really like to see this game succeed and get many players involved and be "that game". The one people will be talking about and playing 10 years from now. One of the greats that changed the landscape as UO, EQ, and WoW did.
It is through this mindset I am writing this.
I see in the fly over video how these areas have some similarity to the lands of old. The names will be the same such as Halas in the frozen area and so on. I can clearly see the wizard spires in a few of the fly overs or screen shots. There is a wizard and warrior class and they have moves that befit such classes. The warrior whirlwind attack looked like it had been ripped right out of diablo which is fine. I like the destructive environments. The way some of the abilities go together reminds me of combo's from GW2 or some fighting games which is fine. The crafting sounds deep but mostly unknown at this time. The multi-classing sounds interesting as well if it can be pulled off well.
Problem is not in the over all presentation to me, or the re-imagining. I just don't want them to screw it up and just make a small dent in the market with all these great concepts. They should shine "head and shoulders" above the competition. But it only takes a few core mechanics to turn a great idea into something that is shallow and gets dull in a month and move on....that is my concern. I guess most of it is in not knowing the mechanics totally or how the gui changes when you switch character rolls or weapons and such. Nobody knows accept the devs and they didn't seem to spill the beans about it much. When Guildwars 2 was not even out, they had fairly comprehensive information on the webpage about many of these mechanics and as classes were revealed, there were even short videos of some of the moves. the devs for GW2 even had some gaming website writers test drive some of the classes and give break downs of how they worked after announcing as well.
As time goes on we all will know more. I just hope that it's not all 3 to 10 second buffs and such. I really think having longer lasting buffs that you apply before combat adds a deeper level to the game than the GW2 mechanics for buffs. There are people who will disagree and that's ok. One person's pool may be another persons ocean (depthwise). I am not looking for the exact EQ with 40 GUI buttons. I am looking for something fun with less handholding, more challenge, more depth, and the flavor of EQ complete with many mobs, places, and familiar faces and classes all redone in a grand fashion.
So far what I have seen will have me playing the first month to try it and go from there. Maybe more info will make me want to be hooked it for years....and that is what I hope for.
However even guild wars 2 did not come out with everything at the beginning. It took time to get the information out there. This was a first view of EQN. We have a long way to go.
Let me first say this is still a game in development. SOE can still hear and listen to gamers who only want for the future of the game to be great.
This is kind of a call to arms, maybe e-mailing them with buckets of mail will help, but I know the system they currently have "Roundtable" is almost like a "hot or not" style in which players don't actually give anything constructive to the conversation.
There are other companies out there listening to the players as they build the game and even modifying some of it as they go based on player input.
I, as a player would really like to see this game succeed and get many players involved and be "that game". The one people will be talking about and playing 10 years from now. One of the greats that changed the landscape as UO, EQ, and WoW did.
It is through this mindset I am writing this.
I see in the fly over video how these areas have some similarity to the lands of old. The names will be the same such as Halas in the frozen area and so on. I can clearly see the wizard spires in a few of the fly overs or screen shots. There is a wizard and warrior class and they have moves that befit such classes. The warrior whirlwind attack looked like it had been ripped right out of diablo which is fine. I like the destructive environments. The way some of the abilities go together reminds me of combo's from GW2 or some fighting games which is fine. The crafting sounds deep but mostly unknown at this time. The multi-classing sounds interesting as well if it can be pulled off well.
Problem is not in the over all presentation to me, or the re-imagining. I just don't want them to screw it up and just make a small dent in the market with all these great concepts. They should shine "head and shoulders" above the competition. But it only takes a few core mechanics to turn a great idea into something that is shallow and gets dull in a month and move on....that is my concern. I guess most of it is in not knowing the mechanics totally or how the gui changes when you switch character rolls or weapons and such. Nobody knows accept the devs and they didn't seem to spill the beans about it much. When Guildwars 2 was not even out, they had fairly comprehensive information on the webpage about many of these mechanics and as classes were revealed, there were even short videos of some of the moves. the devs for GW2 even had some gaming website writers test drive some of the classes and give break downs of how they worked after announcing as well.
As time goes on we all will know more. I just hope that it's not all 3 to 10 second buffs and such. I really think having longer lasting buffs that you apply before combat adds a deeper level to the game than the GW2 mechanics for buffs. There are people who will disagree and that's ok. One person's pool may be another persons ocean (depthwise). I am not looking for the exact EQ with 40 GUI buttons. I am looking for something fun with less handholding, more challenge, more depth, and the flavor of EQ complete with many mobs, places, and familiar faces and classes all redone in a grand fashion.
So far what I have seen will have me playing the first month to try it and go from there. Maybe more info will make me want to be hooked it for years....and that is what I hope for.
It seems they are pretty far from release of the full game. Landmark will just be a stepping stone into EQN itself.
Either they are still ironing out the details themselves or like they said, they didn't want to spill all the beans at once. Look at all the chaos from the little they did reveal. Sounds like they want to release info in a stream instead of a flood. They want to hear our feedback and if we overload them with every single thing at once instead of focusing on specifics, they won't be able to listen to everyone shouting at once.
Fun seems to be very important to them and they want the entire game to be welcoming to all types of players, instead of only the "hardcore" or "casual." They said they are betting SOE's future on EQN and want something that will last 10+ years.
So far, I see more challenge and depth then most if not all games out. No more !showing the quest givers, no more easy to find dungeon entrances, all actions having consequences.
I don't believe EQN or any game will be "the game" for everyone, but it sure sounds like it will cater to a huge variety of players. Bringing in some Minecrafters (which is hugely popular) who have never played a MMORPG is a feat in itself.
You mentioned buffs a few times. I'm a huge lover of buffs and fluff abilities. Even if they are pointless (+int, +str, +AC) which everyone has before a fight or fun/helpful ones like SOW, Shrink, Grow, Leviate, I enjoy them all and gravitate to classes that have them.
They barely scratched the surface of classes, abilities, and gear enhancements (boots that made them glide).
I don't believe they mentioned anything about buffs (short or long term) which is unsettling, but hopefully they give some info soon. One of the biggest gripes I have with GW2 is no traditional buffing or "fun" abilities. It's all serious business!
I want to have drunken races while levitating and stuff that had zero real purpose, but was great fun.
They went from basically zero info to a small flood over the coarse of 2 days. There are still months until Landmark and who knows how long until EQN. We will have plenty of time to go over all the details as they come out and hopefully actually make an impact on how the game ends up.
For me, I'm very excited (nothing else out or coming that holds my attention) and will sadly be checking every day for any news from the devs. Until release, I'll stick to TF2 and mindlessly killing others in a similarly "cartoon" looking game that is a lot of fun.
Game is going to be free to play so I will play it just to see how it is . If it sucks then obviously it will cost me nothing to remove it from my hard drive and never play it again .
Originally posted by Theocritus Really it sounds like EQ next is a misleading name....Many of us were expecting this to be similar in the spirit of the prior EQ games and it surely is not....To me it seems like they are just using the Everquest name for name recognition sake only...... From waht I have read and seen EQN has little to do with Everquest and more to do with seizing the opportunity to take advantage of other hot games and get their piece of the pie (like SOE always does).....
Bingo.
Everyone keeps attacking the everquest vets, as if we are assholes for expecting one thing and being shown another. A lot of the vets are craving that old school feeling to return in a next gen title.
By that i mean:
- Difficult combat
- DEEP character progression along with ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT
- Heritage quest lines
-Intricate raids, even if they arent 40man.
-Loot..LOOT...LOOOT! The feeling of completing a hard fight, killing that boss and having him drop that new shiny sword OR NOTHING AT ALL. Was all part of the fun, which was snuffed out by the inclusion of progress tokens, where you dont expect your gear to come from the boss, but from the vendor who sells it all if you give him enough tokens.
There isnt a single feature announced in this game so far that makes it everquest.. this game couldve been called "New Fantasy Game #329" and it wouldve had the same effect.
Instead, they called it Everquest Next to draw in the veterans, and then design a game for the new players that most veterans hate.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Originally posted by evilastro They said long ago that EQN would be familiar yet different. Why was everyone expecting EQ1.5? Its mind boggling.
There will be fan service in EQN, but it will not be a rehash of a game they still plan to keep up and running. Not sure why that is so hard for people to understand.
Where's the familiar part? With the change in art style, combat style, no trinity, no need to group as no roles, classes not really being classes as you can do anything, etc.-I don't see anything familiar. I'm not one that wanted EQ 1.5. I was hoping for changes as improvements, but keeping some of the things that fostered grouping mechanics and difficulty, but they seem to have just made a game and threw the name EQ on it. I do like what I've read about how the quest content will be, finding hidden things/places and things like being on opposite sides of an event from other players, but was hoping some things from the original would be used, but improved on.
The setting, the lore, the classes.
What isn't the same is the mechanics.
Why would you expect more of the same from something called 'Everquest Next'. Surely it would have been called 'Everquest Same' or 'Everquest HD' if it was just a carbon copy of EQ1 with better graphics.
The name Everquest relates to the lore and setting. That's all. And Everquest Next has both of them. EQ1 and EQ2 play nothing alike, yet both share the same name. Final Fantasy Tactics plays nothing like anything else in the Final Fantasy series. Remember Mortal Kombat Shoulin Monks? Yeah it played nothing like Mortal Kombat.
See where I am getting at? Everquest just means its set in Norrath. Its an easy to understand name so people know what lore setting it has. Like how Star Wars: The Old Republic and Star Wars Battlefield shared the 'Star Wars' part in the title. The games are nothing alike, yet share the Star Wars name because it lets you know the lore setting.
I really didn't think it was that hard to comprehend.
Originally posted by Theocritus Really it sounds like EQ next is a misleading name....Many of us were expecting this to be similar in the spirit of the prior EQ games and it surely is not....To me it seems like they are just using the Everquest name for name recognition sake only...... From waht I have read and seen EQN has little to do with Everquest and more to do with seizing the opportunity to take advantage of other hot games and get their piece of the pie (like SOE always does).....
Bingo.
Everyone keeps attacking the everquest vets, as if we are assholes for expecting one thing and being shown another. A lot of the vets are craving that old school feeling to return in a next gen title.
By that i mean:
- Difficult combat
- DEEP character progression along with ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT
- Heritage quest lines
-Intricate raids, even if they arent 40man.
-Loot..LOOT...LOOOT! The feeling of completing a hard fight, killing that boss and having him drop that new shiny sword OR NOTHING AT ALL. Was all part of the fun, which was snuffed out by the inclusion of progress tokens, where you dont expect your gear to come from the boss, but from the vendor who sells it all if you give him enough tokens.
There isnt a single feature announced in this game so far that makes it everquest.. this game couldve been called "New Fantasy Game #329" and it wouldve had the same effect.
Instead, they called it Everquest Next to draw in the veterans, and then design a game for the new players that most veterans hate.
Actually then you mislead yourself. Because every single time EQN has been talked about in any type of detail. They have stated that it will be different yet have familiar places and NPCs.
We know nothing right now about how challenging the content or in depth the content will be.
Originally posted by Theocritus Really it sounds like EQ next is a misleading name....Many of us were expecting this to be similar in the spirit of the prior EQ games and it surely is not....To me it seems like they are just using the Everquest name for name recognition sake only...... From waht I have read and seen EQN has little to do with Everquest and more to do with seizing the opportunity to take advantage of other hot games and get their piece of the pie (like SOE always does).....
Bingo.
Everyone keeps attacking the everquest vets, as if we are assholes for expecting one thing and being shown another. A lot of the vets are craving that old school feeling to return in a next gen title.
By that i mean:
- Difficult combat
- DEEP character progression along with ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT
- Heritage quest lines
-Intricate raids, even if they arent 40man.
-Loot..LOOT...LOOOT! The feeling of completing a hard fight, killing that boss and having him drop that new shiny sword OR NOTHING AT ALL. Was all part of the fun, which was snuffed out by the inclusion of progress tokens, where you dont expect your gear to come from the boss, but from the vendor who sells it all if you give him enough tokens.
There isnt a single feature announced in this game so far that makes it everquest.. this game couldve been called "New Fantasy Game #329" and it wouldve had the same effect.
Instead, they called it Everquest Next to draw in the veterans, and then design a game for the new players that most veterans hate.
Actually then you mislead yourself. Because every single time EQN has been talked about in any type of detail. They have stated that it will be different yet have familiar places and NPCs.
We know nothing right now about how challenging the content or in depth the content will be.
Its not everquest, thats the whole point.
What in the fuck does different yet familiar even mean? Its nonsense.
What we know is the combat system, guild wars 2 was shallow and it only had 10 skills. You arent going to convince me at all that eqnext will be deep and engaging with 8 buttons and the promise of AI so advanced it will revolutionize the genre.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
What reality are you living in? When they remade the hulk movie was the hulk now a telapath who goes around fighting white collar crime? When they remain the spider man movies was spider now a meglomeniacal anti hero chick who was half spider/half human?
Give one example of a reimagining that is even close to the complete opposite of all the previous versions like this?
Nobody was expecting EQ1 with updated graphics, but this is rediculous.
The Ang Lee movie 'Hulk' was a re-imagining that was so far off from what comic book fans thought it should be, it was widely panned for its re-imagining.
Spider-man movies decided that the webs would be a genetic alteration rather than a scientific invention of Peter Parker's - drew wide spread criticism from comic book fans as it 'downplayed' Peter's scientific genius and thus detracted from a very important concept in the franchise - but in Spider-man 3 he is a meglomeniacal anti hero who is consumed by the suit...
Ask Iron Man fans how they feel about The Mandarin in IM3.
My example of a re-imagining that is complete opposite of the previous versions:
EQ2 - casual based, quest hub based, heavily instanced, soloable to max, wildly different models, new races, changing Erudites from black people with big heads to aliens with glowing tattoos - the geography of Norrath can't even be explained by whatever cataclysm happened between games.....
My second example is Legends of Norrath - again pretty wildly different in almost everyway from EQ.
The example you seek is right under your nose. EQ. They have done it with every new game in the franchise - my question to you - why would this one be different?
If you like EQ so much - y'know, its servers are still live. You'll have better luck convincing developers to tweak the game you loved than convincing them to change directions to re-make EQ into EQN.
I'm sorry you expected 're-imagining' to be a 're-creation' of your old favorite game and it isn't. I'm sorry you expected to see them re-hash old systems and ideas slapped with modern graphics and instead it is new systms and new ideas. I know you say 'no one expected them to reskin EQ" - What did you expect? It's Norrath. It's EQ lore. It's fantasy based. It has exploration as a major component. You fight magical foes to obtain skills and loot. What were your expectations?
Most of us want someting new. Something we haven't played before. I don't know if EQN will deliver - but I'll be pretty let down if I load it up and find it is a game I've already played 10000 times before.
When someone re-imagines something - I want them to use their imagination.
What in the fuck does different yet familiar even mean? Its nonsense.
What we know is the combat system, guild wars 2 was shallow and it only had 10 skills. You arent going to convince me at all that eqnext will be deep and engaging with 8 buttons and the promise of AI so advanced it will revolutionize the genre.
Say what you want but don't pretend you can represent the whole player base of EQ. I've been playing EQ since day one back when I could barely read, thanks to my nerdy programmer father. I love how EQ1&2 was and is, but I don't want SOE to just give us a EQ3. You can probably imagine how fucking easy that would be... just reskin everything with the same old art style and the whole EQ fans will jump at it like crazy, but no... they decide to "fix" the genre with the resource and experience they have.
These guys are not idiots, they know what they're doing and they see where GW2 got hit. Have some faith in the devs, or go back to EQ1&2 if you want to. The choice is yours.
Now if we have a franchise that has a legacy stretching for over 10 years that we as fans have invested hard earned money in and respect. One would think that the devs would hear our cry from below and listen so that the game they are making is a success. Not just any success, but the real competition with which every mmo tries to live up to.
But here it is....
the core...
EQ was all about mana management and buffs that could last a good while. Now if the buffs lasting a while is thrown out the window....there will actually be no difference between EQ franchise and other actual classics.
Well you talk about their 10 year franchise and how they owe it to their loyal base....then go on to talk about what made eq great and what they need to do to recapture eq.....
What about eq2? What about legends of norrath?
I think there are a lot of folks, and correct me if I'm wrong....who think this game should emulate eq - be a successor or re-birth of EQ.
It isn't supposed to be that at all. It is suppose to be new. And sure there are resemblances to GW2; but there are so many things that aren't....
The destructable world....vertical content (air, land, subterranean) -
Skills accessed through discovery...
Extensive tool set for player created content...
But to me....
the core...
I don't know enough to formulate any opinion on whether I will like this game - and if it turns out not to be designed to be my new home for years - but rather a casualish game - I'll play it as intended - and if fun, I'll enjoy it. But won't create hopes and expectations about it being my new "EQ" reborn - they never told me it would be. They never told me it would be like EQ at all, in fact what they told me is it is NEW, not a resurrection.
Wasn't EQN described for some time as a reimagining of EQ1? Maybe you don't know what that means but it sure doesn't mean we plan on changing every damn thing about the game.
I literally can't think of a single structural mechanism that is similar to EQ1, its literally as different as an MMO could possibly be.
It's truly amazing what you can learn when you read the dictionary....
reimagining -
1. to imagine again or anew; especially to form a new conception of
2. re-create
similar-
Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.
(of figures) Having the same shape, with the same angles and proportions, though of different sizes.
So which part of that did you not understand? Reimagining is EXACTLY, by it's definition, what that means.
Ya, put down the bong. Even by the definition that you posted its clear that this is not a reimagining of everquest in any form. Reimagining means to create a similar product with SOME changes, not every single mechanic.
The amount of change in this product from its historical predecessors is akin to making a Friday the 13th (whatever number) sequel and deciding that your going to "reimagine it" as a romantic comedy. Anyone that has a historical interest in the product line has every right to feel that cynical about the marketing and the misleading nature of the naming of the product.
It most certainly does not mean to create a similar product with SOME changes as that would be a REMAKE; Which they CLEARLY said they were not doing. They said it was a REIMAGINING...to form a NEW CONCEPTION. I'll say it again....a NEW CONCEPTION. So yeah, using your analogy, Friday the 13th being REIMAGINED as a romantic comedy would fulfill EXACTLY that...a REIMAGINING....a NEW CONCEPTION. From the very start they told us it was a REIMAGINING and NOT A REMAKE. Nothing will change your cynicism if you can't distinguish what the definition of what a REIMAGINING is....and therein lies YOUR problem. YOU mislead yourself. Now if you'll excuse me, i'll go pick my bong back up.
I find it a bit amusing that people are acting like this was a surprise. The devs said a LOT about this being a very different game that is deliberately not EQN. And that it wouldn't eat up the populations of EQ1 or EQ2. Some desperately clung to the comments about reimagining and ignored everything else about it being different. This is your own fault for being ignorant... Not SOEs fault.
As for the similarities... Well, you are going to see Norrath and many of the cities in Norrath, but much of how the universe functions will be different. You got a good heads up about this from SOE and they don't owe you anything.
The thing is.. and I know I'm right, I just wish I could find the interview today that I read over a year ago.. The lead dev had made the statement that EQ 3 was going to be the TRUE successor to EverQuest., not the error that EQ2 became.. Now obviously things have changed.. When that dev made that comment in that interview, can we assume that was last year before the second reboot of EQ 3? I can only think that is was.. and When EQ3 reboot became EQ Next, their focus changed..
I have no issues they are doing that.. BUT in years past it was implied greatly, even on their own forums, that people were expecting and looking for a true successor to EQ, which this game is not.. This should of been cleared up LONG before EQ3 was announced so people would not be disappointed in the debut......
It was cleared up long ago. The most recent reboot was done because what they were planning was too much like the games they made in the past and weren't different enough.
Comments
What reality are you living in? When they remade the hulk movie was the hulk now a telapath who goes around fighting white collar crime? When they remain the spider man movies was spider now a meglomeniacal anti hero chick who was half spider/half human?
Give one example of a reimagining that is even close to the complete opposite of all the previous versions like this?
Nobody was expecting EQ1 with updated graphics, but this is rediculous.
"Do they care?", I believe is the ultimate question.
Of course not, it's SoE...
What you are referring to are 'remakes'
Re-imaging: 10 Things I Hate About You. It was a re-imaging of Shakespeares 'The Taming of the Shrew'
And again, Fallout - Bethesda's version totally changed the story, characters and fundamental mechanics. Completely different game from the original.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
You are a person on mmorpg, does that mean you're a speculative ignorant?
No in those movies they didn't change the main character, the Hulk was still the Hulk and Spiderman was still Spiderman. Just like in EQ Next.. Norrath is still Norrath. I'm looking forward to the changes they are making, I'm getting tired of the same ole game with a new skin. I don't want to go backwards to how EQ was.. I want to move forward into new experiences.
I think the pvp reveals are going to be crazy and rustle a lot of jimmies. The devs have hinted they have some really cool ideas planned, especially when it comes to the destruction of player owned houses and items in pvp. I don't think it's gonna be as traditional and carebear as many people are expecting, at least not on the pvp servers.
Well Dave has already stated that player owned property cannot be touched without that players permission, So we know destroying player housing will not be an option. That is unless the rules are different on PvP servers.
I think it might have more to do with guild warfare...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I played EQ1 from beta up untill right before EQ2 came out... I just felt I needed a break from it before the new installment. EQ2 was a big disappointment when it first came out. However due to the fact I loved Norrath so much I returned years later to try to re explore the game and found great enjoyment there.
Over the years I have played now what seems countless MMOs or at least tried them. Some were fun. Some not so much. Throughout it all there EQ1 definately holds that one spot for me that I always look back to. I realize many times I'm looking back through rose colored glasses. But I constantly find myself making comparisons to the wonderful game and world of EQ1.
I have been watching and waiting for the next installment of EQ since before it was dubbed EQNEXT. As the story developed and Smed would talk about it. I started speculating like many others what the next installment would bring.
This last weekend we got our "teaser" because in all honesty that's what it was. I like many others was a bit shocked at the cartoony characters at least at first. However i actually admit to liking the style somewhat so that really isnt going to be a problem. Anyway I listened at what they were doing with some of the core principles of the game and in all honesty like what I am seeing.
I don't feel mislead. Everytime I read about EQNEXT, it was clear this is not going to be the EQ1 or 2. However it will have familiar places and people in it.
Now all the doom and gloom speculation that's going on in these forums is pretty ridiculous. All the talk of its going to be GW2.75 is absurd. Why? Because we just don't know from a "teaser" that has been given. All this talk of lack of roles which definately did not come from the developers they said the exact opposite. That players could still play roles, but were not forced into them or dependent upon having to rely on them, is also just crazy.
In closing from an EQ1 and 2 fan. I will say I like what I see currently. Not all EQ fans feel jaded or mislead. At least the ones who actually listened to what's been said up untill this point. Now I will sit back and wait for more information to be released and take part in round table discussions to try to be constructive in the games development, instead of being like so many we have seen here who seem to only want to be destructive and spread doom and gloom over a game we still really know very little about.
I see the conversation has gone sideways a bit.
Let me first say this is still a game in development. SOE can still hear and listen to gamers who only want for the future of the game to be great.
This is kind of a call to arms, maybe e-mailing them with buckets of mail will help, but I know the system they currently have "Roundtable" is almost like a "hot or not" style in which players don't actually give anything constructive to the conversation.
There are other companies out there listening to the players as they build the game and even modifying some of it as they go based on player input.
I, as a player would really like to see this game succeed and get many players involved and be "that game". The one people will be talking about and playing 10 years from now. One of the greats that changed the landscape as UO, EQ, and WoW did.
It is through this mindset I am writing this.
I see in the fly over video how these areas have some similarity to the lands of old. The names will be the same such as Halas in the frozen area and so on. I can clearly see the wizard spires in a few of the fly overs or screen shots. There is a wizard and warrior class and they have moves that befit such classes. The warrior whirlwind attack looked like it had been ripped right out of diablo which is fine. I like the destructive environments. The way some of the abilities go together reminds me of combo's from GW2 or some fighting games which is fine. The crafting sounds deep but mostly unknown at this time. The multi-classing sounds interesting as well if it can be pulled off well.
Problem is not in the over all presentation to me, or the re-imagining. I just don't want them to screw it up and just make a small dent in the market with all these great concepts. They should shine "head and shoulders" above the competition. But it only takes a few core mechanics to turn a great idea into something that is shallow and gets dull in a month and move on....that is my concern. I guess most of it is in not knowing the mechanics totally or how the gui changes when you switch character rolls or weapons and such. Nobody knows accept the devs and they didn't seem to spill the beans about it much. When Guildwars 2 was not even out, they had fairly comprehensive information on the webpage about many of these mechanics and as classes were revealed, there were even short videos of some of the moves. the devs for GW2 even had some gaming website writers test drive some of the classes and give break downs of how they worked after announcing as well.
As time goes on we all will know more. I just hope that it's not all 3 to 10 second buffs and such. I really think having longer lasting buffs that you apply before combat adds a deeper level to the game than the GW2 mechanics for buffs. There are people who will disagree and that's ok. One person's pool may be another persons ocean (depthwise). I am not looking for the exact EQ with 40 GUI buttons. I am looking for something fun with less handholding, more challenge, more depth, and the flavor of EQ complete with many mobs, places, and familiar faces and classes all redone in a grand fashion.
So far what I have seen will have me playing the first month to try it and go from there. Maybe more info will make me want to be hooked it for years....and that is what I hope for.
It seems they are pretty far from release of the full game. Landmark will just be a stepping stone into EQN itself.
Either they are still ironing out the details themselves or like they said, they didn't want to spill all the beans at once. Look at all the chaos from the little they did reveal. Sounds like they want to release info in a stream instead of a flood. They want to hear our feedback and if we overload them with every single thing at once instead of focusing on specifics, they won't be able to listen to everyone shouting at once.
Fun seems to be very important to them and they want the entire game to be welcoming to all types of players, instead of only the "hardcore" or "casual." They said they are betting SOE's future on EQN and want something that will last 10+ years.
So far, I see more challenge and depth then most if not all games out. No more ! showing the quest givers, no more easy to find dungeon entrances, all actions having consequences.
I don't believe EQN or any game will be "the game" for everyone, but it sure sounds like it will cater to a huge variety of players. Bringing in some Minecrafters (which is hugely popular) who have never played a MMORPG is a feat in itself.
You mentioned buffs a few times. I'm a huge lover of buffs and fluff abilities. Even if they are pointless (+int, +str, +AC) which everyone has before a fight or fun/helpful ones like SOW, Shrink, Grow, Leviate, I enjoy them all and gravitate to classes that have them.
They barely scratched the surface of classes, abilities, and gear enhancements (boots that made them glide).
I don't believe they mentioned anything about buffs (short or long term) which is unsettling, but hopefully they give some info soon. One of the biggest gripes I have with GW2 is no traditional buffing or "fun" abilities. It's all serious business!
I want to have drunken races while levitating and stuff that had zero real purpose, but was great fun.
They went from basically zero info to a small flood over the coarse of 2 days. There are still months until Landmark and who knows how long until EQN. We will have plenty of time to go over all the details as they come out and hopefully actually make an impact on how the game ends up.
For me, I'm very excited (nothing else out or coming that holds my attention) and will sadly be checking every day for any news from the devs. Until release, I'll stick to TF2 and mindlessly killing others in a similarly "cartoon" looking game that is a lot of fun.
Game is going to be free to play so I will play it just to see how it is . If it sucks then obviously it will cost me nothing to remove it from my hard drive and never play it again .
Bingo.
Everyone keeps attacking the everquest vets, as if we are assholes for expecting one thing and being shown another. A lot of the vets are craving that old school feeling to return in a next gen title.
By that i mean:
- Difficult combat
- DEEP character progression along with ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT
- Heritage quest lines
-Intricate raids, even if they arent 40man.
-Loot..LOOT...LOOOT! The feeling of completing a hard fight, killing that boss and having him drop that new shiny sword OR NOTHING AT ALL. Was all part of the fun, which was snuffed out by the inclusion of progress tokens, where you dont expect your gear to come from the boss, but from the vendor who sells it all if you give him enough tokens.
There isnt a single feature announced in this game so far that makes it everquest.. this game couldve been called "New Fantasy Game #329" and it wouldve had the same effect.
Instead, they called it Everquest Next to draw in the veterans, and then design a game for the new players that most veterans hate.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
The setting, the lore, the classes.
What isn't the same is the mechanics.
Why would you expect more of the same from something called 'Everquest Next'. Surely it would have been called 'Everquest Same' or 'Everquest HD' if it was just a carbon copy of EQ1 with better graphics.
The name Everquest relates to the lore and setting. That's all. And Everquest Next has both of them. EQ1 and EQ2 play nothing alike, yet both share the same name. Final Fantasy Tactics plays nothing like anything else in the Final Fantasy series. Remember Mortal Kombat Shoulin Monks? Yeah it played nothing like Mortal Kombat.
See where I am getting at? Everquest just means its set in Norrath. Its an easy to understand name so people know what lore setting it has. Like how Star Wars: The Old Republic and Star Wars Battlefield shared the 'Star Wars' part in the title. The games are nothing alike, yet share the Star Wars name because it lets you know the lore setting.
I really didn't think it was that hard to comprehend.
Actually then you mislead yourself. Because every single time EQN has been talked about in any type of detail. They have stated that it will be different yet have familiar places and NPCs.
We know nothing right now about how challenging the content or in depth the content will be.
Its not everquest, thats the whole point.
What in the fuck does different yet familiar even mean? Its nonsense.
What we know is the combat system, guild wars 2 was shallow and it only had 10 skills. You arent going to convince me at all that eqnext will be deep and engaging with 8 buttons and the promise of AI so advanced it will revolutionize the genre.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
The Ang Lee movie 'Hulk' was a re-imagining that was so far off from what comic book fans thought it should be, it was widely panned for its re-imagining.
Spider-man movies decided that the webs would be a genetic alteration rather than a scientific invention of Peter Parker's - drew wide spread criticism from comic book fans as it 'downplayed' Peter's scientific genius and thus detracted from a very important concept in the franchise - but in Spider-man 3 he is a meglomeniacal anti hero who is consumed by the suit...
Ask Iron Man fans how they feel about The Mandarin in IM3.
My example of a re-imagining that is complete opposite of the previous versions:
EQ2 - casual based, quest hub based, heavily instanced, soloable to max, wildly different models, new races, changing Erudites from black people with big heads to aliens with glowing tattoos - the geography of Norrath can't even be explained by whatever cataclysm happened between games.....
My second example is Legends of Norrath - again pretty wildly different in almost everyway from EQ.
The example you seek is right under your nose. EQ. They have done it with every new game in the franchise - my question to you - why would this one be different?
If you like EQ so much - y'know, its servers are still live. You'll have better luck convincing developers to tweak the game you loved than convincing them to change directions to re-make EQ into EQN.
I'm sorry you expected 're-imagining' to be a 're-creation' of your old favorite game and it isn't. I'm sorry you expected to see them re-hash old systems and ideas slapped with modern graphics and instead it is new systms and new ideas. I know you say 'no one expected them to reskin EQ" - What did you expect? It's Norrath. It's EQ lore. It's fantasy based. It has exploration as a major component. You fight magical foes to obtain skills and loot. What were your expectations?
Most of us want someting new. Something we haven't played before. I don't know if EQN will deliver - but I'll be pretty let down if I load it up and find it is a game I've already played 10000 times before.
When someone re-imagines something - I want them to use their imagination.
Was EQ deep and engaging?
Warrior at release:
-autoattack
-taunt
-kick
-bash
That's it.
Some will like it and some won't.
Say what you want but don't pretend you can represent the whole player base of EQ. I've been playing EQ since day one back when I could barely read, thanks to my nerdy programmer father. I love how EQ1&2 was and is, but I don't want SOE to just give us a EQ3. You can probably imagine how fucking easy that would be... just reskin everything with the same old art style and the whole EQ fans will jump at it like crazy, but no... they decide to "fix" the genre with the resource and experience they have.
These guys are not idiots, they know what they're doing and they see where GW2 got hit. Have some faith in the devs, or go back to EQ1&2 if you want to. The choice is yours.
It most certainly does not mean to create a similar product with SOME changes as that would be a REMAKE; Which they CLEARLY said they were not doing. They said it was a REIMAGINING...to form a NEW CONCEPTION. I'll say it again....a NEW CONCEPTION. So yeah, using your analogy, Friday the 13th being REIMAGINED as a romantic comedy would fulfill EXACTLY that...a REIMAGINING....a NEW CONCEPTION. From the very start they told us it was a REIMAGINING and NOT A REMAKE. Nothing will change your cynicism if you can't distinguish what the definition of what a REIMAGINING is....and therein lies YOUR problem. YOU mislead yourself. Now if you'll excuse me, i'll go pick my bong back up.
As for the similarities... Well, you are going to see Norrath and many of the cities in Norrath, but much of how the universe functions will be different. You got a good heads up about this from SOE and they don't owe you anything.
The thing is.. and I know I'm right, I just wish I could find the interview today that I read over a year ago.. The lead dev had made the statement that EQ 3 was going to be the TRUE successor to EverQuest., not the error that EQ2 became.. Now obviously things have changed.. When that dev made that comment in that interview, can we assume that was last year before the second reboot of EQ 3? I can only think that is was.. and When EQ3 reboot became EQ Next, their focus changed..
I have no issues they are doing that.. BUT in years past it was implied greatly, even on their own forums, that people were expecting and looking for a true successor to EQ, which this game is not.. This should of been cleared up LONG before EQ3 was announced so people would not be disappointed in the debut......