I have to agree with the OP, I loved to have MY warrior, MY mage, MY Jedi Knight, MY <class name>. They were unique characters and all felt very different to me. With the jack of all trade characters that feeling is lost, I just have a character like everybody else who has access to everything.
The devs said that the system is not only one that allows you to pick from multiple different classes but that those classes will not as such have a specific role in the first place. It certainly sounds like they are creating the classes so that the majority of the game (if not all of it) can be done by many many different mixes of classes so they can do content equally and not have to rely on anyone ever.
This is what retracts from the whole community aspect and your individuality of your character within the grand scheme of things. In the minority of things then you will seem individual but there is no greater purpose for you.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
I do not understand why devs of more recent games always say that a class/skill system that allows you to mix and match skills helps give a player more of a feeling of individuality because you can customize your character to how you want it.
I would have to disagree with all these devs who boast of an open ended system like that....
If you have a specific class (as long as there is a nice selection) I believe that gives you more of a sense of individuality within your class choice and its specific role. Then after your personal choice of class, you should have a lot of customization within that class.
If you have a system that allows everyone to fend for themselves in any situation, then that takes away individuality. If everyone can pick up whatever classes they like and mix and match then no one will feel individual because of the very fact that anyone can be the same or similar if they really wanted. They will be able to deal with any situation just like you.
That boggles my mind.... I think they have it the wrong way around!
Someone in the audience mentioned about EQ1 on the recent panel when talking about classes. The devs mentioned about the annoyance of not being able to, for example, do a raid because a tank or healer is not online at the time.
Well I sort of disagree with that being such a bad thing, it gives you a sense of identity and purpose in the game and helps you to feel like more of an individual in the game because they would like you because of your personal choice of role. Eq1 had so many classes and each one had a lot of specific spells and abilities which would help out A LOT in different situations.
It was more like instead of getting a party and thinking ah it is a shame we don't have a rogue but it does not matter in the end... It was more like if we had a necromancer right now, the ease at which we could gain experience would be 10 fold.
I really liked that about EQ1. In my opinion there were enough classes, each one with specific situational abilities, to make you feel like an individual a lot more so than games with a system where you can mix and match any skills.
I agree that being good at a role gives you a sense of identity and purpose.
But, I disagree that a multi-classing system destroys that. EQ2 (much like EQ1) has very clearly defined roles. And you can't do a dungeon without a healer or tank, etc. However, what happens about 90% of the time is that if you have a group of 5 that's missing a healer, someone in the group logs in their healer alt and you just pick up whatever. So now instead of playing Warlock, you're playing a Warden. That doesn't change the fact that you're an awesome Warlock or that you're best as a Warlock or that you're an amazing player. All it does is allow you to fill a role in the group that's needed to succeed.
All that multi-classing (or freeform loadout system) does is allow you to have alts without having to log out and in. Take a look at Rift or TSW or even EVE... people are still known for being amazing healers or amazing DPS or whatever, despite the fact that they can switch to something else in order to make the group/raid happen.
Multi-classing is not the enemy. (IMO, the lack of role interdependence is, but thta is a separate discussion that's already happening 20 other threads.)
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
If your guild has 54 people who can spec tank, healer, dps, or utility - there is no community unless they lock themselves into one of the roles for that character?
There would not be 54 man raids to begin with I think, the complexity of big raids demands a certain rigidity where everyone has a specific role enforced by the game.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
Type /camp to get to a different role. Change name.
Swap templates to get to a different role. Keep same name.
If your guild has 54 people who can spec tank, healer, dps, or utility - there is no community unless they lock themselves into one of the roles for that character?
There would not be 54 man raids to begin with I think, the complexity of big raids demands a certain rigidity where everyone has a specific role enforced by the game.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
Type /camp to get to a different role. Change name.
Swap templates to get to a different role. Keep same name.
You mean camping out to another character?
That's probably why having no vertical progression is not the smartest idea. A character should mean something, what's the point if it's an unmemorable experience of a few weeks. I don't play the game to get to max level, I play it to be with my friends, but there should be a clear progression path to support this.
I just have my tank character, I do have alts but they're not powerful enough to support either me or the guild, so I solely depend on others. I can't solo worth a damn on the character, but I don't mind.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
In a way the trinity system forces you to make friends, and in the beginning it might just be because that's how you play the game, but after a while they're true friends. This doesn't happen when everyone can fulfill every roll.
Sorry but If I'm LFG some night after my guild has logged off I don't want to be forced to invite you. If everyone can heal on the server, the only reason I'd want you is if you're good.
If I rolled a healer, and my best friend rolled a healer, I want us to both to be able to complete dungeons together instead of having to kick him out for some random tank I don't know, who could be a horrible person/player and having to put up with it in order to advance.
Most people are perfectly able to make friends with people they don't need.
If your guild has 54 people who can spec tank, healer, dps, or utility - there is no community unless they lock themselves into one of the roles for that character?
There would not be 54 man raids to begin with I think, the complexity of big raids demands a certain rigidity where everyone has a specific role enforced by the game.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
Type /camp to get to a different role. Change name.
Swap templates to get to a different role. Keep same name.
Not quite that simple.
Just switching builds to fill a role doesn't mean you'll actually *fill* that role. If you spend the majority of your time with one or two builds, and you're needed to switch to a third build that you have access to but have never played, you're useless to the group.
In the case of logging out and back in - to fill that role you had to take the time to play that character, to level it up and understand it's abilities and how it works.
Multiclassing is again shown to be more detriment than anything.
Anyone who supports the tank/heal/dps trinity is power hungry.
My ex-gf would sometimes just leave raids because "because I can." This sort of thought needs to be given to the single player games. The only reason to play a multi-player game is to play a social game. Not to play a game, and know that because you picked the right class, you can piss off anyone you want and get away with it.
I've seen thousands of people do and say the same thing! "Because I can," needs to go back to the days of, "No sleep till WE beat THIS encounter!"
While I hope there are heals / support, I would rather play with good players than take a bad player who rolled an in-demand class. Hopefully the combat system encourages player skill rather than relying on class crutches.
Also the multi class system is pretty heavily controlled. You are picking between a few flavour abilities but the core skills are tied to your primary class and weapon choice.
Just switching builds to fill a role doesn't mean you'll actually *fill* that role. If you spend the majority of your time with one or two builds, and you're needed to switch to a third build that you have access to but have never played, you're useless to the group.
Exactly. So what you're saying there, is that despite the ability to fill all possible roles, people will still be only good at a few and known for those few. Hence the whole idea of "role and identity" remains the same. You're just able to fill more than one.
I knew tons of people in Rift that - despite the ability to fill multiple roles - still only chose to play one. For those people, the system worked fine. For other, who usually have a ton of alts and can play them all, the system also worked fine. Seems like a win-win to me. So long as there ARE actual roles to be filled.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by Rockniss Classes and class system individual spell casting effects are for heroic feelings and todays standard of gameplay doesnt invite such feelings
And your argument differs from "We can do it all, we don't need x class or y class, or even another person because we'll just switch builds as needed." how exactly? I'd rather feel heroic by being heroic as opposed to being a architect/hacker/engineer/chemist/professor of physics/botanist/cobbler/every other job in existence. In real life, you're lucky to have the brain capacity to handle one profession, yet you think it's more heroic to be that one profession than every profession ever made? WTF are you smoking? rofl
You are picking between a few flavour abilities but the core skills are tied to your primary class and weapon choice.
Where did you hear about "primary class"? (Not trolling, honest question, i've been wondering about this.).
The example given at the panel was that you can be a Wizard (one of the 8 starting classes) and pick up the Rogue class (another one of the starting classes) and mix abilities between the two - and all classes use all weapons. I am not sure what would be considered "primary" class in this case. Although, now that i think about it.. they did say that "every class will use the same weapon differently", so uhm.. which weapon use am i going to get out of the Mage/Rogue? Hrmm...
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
If your guild has 54 people who can spec tank, healer, dps, or utility - there is no community unless they lock themselves into one of the roles for that character?
There would not be 54 man raids to begin with I think, the complexity of big raids demands a certain rigidity where everyone has a specific role enforced by the game.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
Type /camp to get to a different role. Change name.
Swap templates to get to a different role. Keep same name.
Not quite that simple.
Just switching builds to fill a role doesn't mean you'll actually *fill* that role. If you spend the majority of your time with one or two builds, and you're needed to switch to a third build that you have access to but have never played, you're useless to the group.
In the case of logging out and back in - to fill that role you had to take the time to play that character, to level it up and understand it's abilities and how it works.
Multiclassing is again shown to be more detriment than anything.
Hm. You will be useless to a group because your other build is still at tier 0. You haven't started. The character you described was already created and leveled. Time invested. The other build had 0 time invested.
The one-class trinity system has always supported me from day 1. While it's not perfect, people quickly realise that you need to group with others in such systems, and you quickly have a support base.
In action and multiclass games I see many people solo, wondering why no one talks or groups.
Games that rely on community have a much more streamlined uptake of newbees into the game, because they quickly get confronted with the grouping dilemma, which makes them make contact with the server community.
If your guild has 54 people who can spec tank, healer, dps, or utility - there is no community unless they lock themselves into one of the roles for that character?
There would not be 54 man raids to begin with I think, the complexity of big raids demands a certain rigidity where everyone has a specific role enforced by the game.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
Type /camp to get to a different role. Change name.
Swap templates to get to a different role. Keep same name.
Not quite that simple.
Just switching builds to fill a role doesn't mean you'll actually *fill* that role. If you spend the majority of your time with one or two builds, and you're needed to switch to a third build that you have access to but have never played, you're useless to the group.
In the case of logging out and back in - to fill that role you had to take the time to play that character, to level it up and understand it's abilities and how it works.
Multiclassing is again shown to be more detriment than anything.
Hm. You will be useless to a group because your other build is still at tier 0. You haven't started. The character you described was already created and leveled. Time invested. The other build had 0 time invested.
But you're nitpicking personal choice vs. game mechanic necessity.
If your guild has 54 people who can spec tank, healer, dps, or utility - there is no community unless they lock themselves into one of the roles for that character?
There would not be 54 man raids to begin with I think, the complexity of big raids demands a certain rigidity where everyone has a specific role enforced by the game.
And no there wouldn't be the same community, my healer would mean nothing to me if everyone on the server can heal. The reason my healer is also my friend, is because of the trinity system. You become friends with those individuals.
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
Type /camp to get to a different role. Change name.
Swap templates to get to a different role. Keep same name.
You mean camping out to another character?
That's probably why having no vertical progression is not the smartest idea. A character should mean something, what's the point if it's an unmemorable experience of a few weeks. I don't play the game to get to max level, I play it to be with my friends, but there should be a clear progression path to support this.
I just have my tank character, I do have alts but they're not powerful enough to support either me or the guild, so I solely depend on others. I can't solo worth a damn on the character, but I don't mind.
Yes, I meant camping.
In a world where there is no vertical progression, you will not become more powerful, you will become more capable. The 'meaning' is your ability to overcome adversity, as any RPG strives to do. This way, content will remain perilous and difficult. Not being out leveled and trivial after you do it once.
Just switching builds to fill a role doesn't mean you'll actually *fill* that role. If you spend the majority of your time with one or two builds, and you're needed to switch to a third build that you have access to but have never played, you're useless to the group.
Exactly. So what you're saying there, is that despite the ability to fill all possible roles, people will still be only good at a few and known for those few. Hence the whole idea of "role and identity" remains the same. You're just able to fill more than one.
I knew tons of people in Rift that - despite the ability to fill multiple roles - still only chose to play one. For those people, the system worked fine. For other, who usually have a ton of alts and can play them all, the system also worked fine. Seems like a win-win to me. So long as there ARE actual roles to be filled.
That is the thing. In this game it is said that roles are pretty much going out of the window. Every person will be close to being able to fill any "role" whenever they want but just mix and match to lean your character one way or the other. That is how it is balanced.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
I didn't really realize the significance of everyone being able to switch classes willy nilly, until you brought up the topic.
I have great memories of my times in EQ1 and the need for team work and other players to get things done.
I can now see that not having to rely on certain classes will be more of a disadvantage rather than an advantage. I hope you bring this to the EQN devs attention.
Someone in the audience mentioned about EQ1 on the recent panel when talking about classes. The devs mentioned about the annoyance of not being able to, for example, do a raid because a tank or healer is not online at the time.
Well I sort of disagree with that being such a bad thing, it gives you a sense of identity and purpose in the game and helps you to feel like more of an individual in the game because they would like you because of your personal choice of role. Eq1 had so many classes and each one had a lot of specific spells and abilities which would help out A LOT in different situations.
I really liked that about EQ1. In my opinion there were enough classes, each one with specific situational abilities, to make you feel like an individual a lot more so than games with a system where you can mix and match any skills.
Same sentiment as you. Not everyone needs to be a jack-of-all-trades. Learn to communicate, if you can't find a healer, start talking to people, start finding your healer. Talk to the server and ask for a healer. Make your own groups.
This "QQ I can't find a group and am LFG all day" is such a pansy response.
If your whole guild breaks down because your healer left, the issue is your guild, not the game.
Don't blame the trinity system when thousands of people and guilds do not have an issue with it. The issue is you, not trinity.
You are right, that argument is pointless. It doesn't support the use of a stupid trinity mechanic that was used to compensate for old tech though. The system is old and needs to be changed. It is a lazy mechanic for lazy players. Mobs shouldn't stand there and let people stab it in the back while a heavy armor wearing insult slinger just yells at it. Would you? I think not and if so then you deserve to die from that DPSer stabbing you in the back.
stop thinking about it from a OMG they are changing things and think about it from the mobs point of view. Who are you going to attack? The idiot yelling at you (tank), the healer, or the guy whooping your arse? The tank would be dead last. Kind of funny, that's the generally how you kill a group of mobs ain't it?
As an example, my partner and I started fresh on EQ2 on the PvP server. I wanted to play conjurer and he wanted to play troubadour. Unfortunately due to the large amount of terrible tanks and healers who use those classes as a clutch, I had to swap to my shadowknight and he swapped to fury just so we could clear the content. I think thats what they are trying to avoid with EQN. While I like heals and support, they should be value adding rather than mandatory. GW1 handled it very well and had multiclassing to boot.
Originally posted by evilastro As an example, my partner and I started fresh on EQ2 on the PvP server. I wanted to play conjurer and he wanted to play troubadour. Unfortunately due to the large amount of terrible tanks and healers who use those classes as a clutch, I had to swap to my shadowknight and he swapped to fury just so we could clear the content. I think thats what they are trying to avoid with EQN. While I like heals and support, they should be value adding rather than mandatory. GW1 handled it very well and had multiclassing to boot.
You're comparing a pvp server with EQN which for all we know about thus far is only being talked about in a pve sense. Were you a troubador on EQ2 pve servers, you'd have had easymode on soloing clear to endgame. There's a huge difference between pvp and pve, and there should be.
Seems like a win-win to me. So long as there ARE actual roles to be filled.
In this game it is said that roles are pretty much going out of the window.
That - as i said - is the main issue. The existence of roles, rather than how many one person can switch to on the same character.
I started my MMO career in AO - it was very much a trinity game - but my Fixer was able to fill DPS role, tank Role or backup Healer role. It all depended on how i played him - and the game was spectacular
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by evilastro As an example, my partner and I started fresh on EQ2 on the PvP server. I wanted to play conjurer and he wanted to play troubadour. Unfortunately due to the large amount of terrible tanks and healers who use those classes as a clutch, I had to swap to my shadowknight and he swapped to fury just so we could clear the content. I think thats what they are trying to avoid with EQN. While I like heals and support, they should be value adding rather than mandatory. GW1 handled it very well and had multiclassing to boot.
This is a good example. It made me think (again) of Rift. If this were Rift instead of EQ2, then you (as a mage) would be able to switch to healer when required for group and your friend (the scout) would be able to tank when required for group. So you'd be able to play BOTH: the classes that you each wanted to play AND the classes that you found yourself needing in order to advance.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Comments
The devs said that the system is not only one that allows you to pick from multiple different classes but that those classes will not as such have a specific role in the first place. It certainly sounds like they are creating the classes so that the majority of the game (if not all of it) can be done by many many different mixes of classes so they can do content equally and not have to rely on anyone ever.
This is what retracts from the whole community aspect and your individuality of your character within the grand scheme of things. In the minority of things then you will seem individual but there is no greater purpose for you.
I agree that being good at a role gives you a sense of identity and purpose.
But, I disagree that a multi-classing system destroys that. EQ2 (much like EQ1) has very clearly defined roles. And you can't do a dungeon without a healer or tank, etc. However, what happens about 90% of the time is that if you have a group of 5 that's missing a healer, someone in the group logs in their healer alt and you just pick up whatever. So now instead of playing Warlock, you're playing a Warden. That doesn't change the fact that you're an awesome Warlock or that you're best as a Warlock or that you're an amazing player. All it does is allow you to fill a role in the group that's needed to succeed.
All that multi-classing (or freeform loadout system) does is allow you to have alts without having to log out and in. Take a look at Rift or TSW or even EVE... people are still known for being amazing healers or amazing DPS or whatever, despite the fact that they can switch to something else in order to make the group/raid happen.
Multi-classing is not the enemy. (IMO, the lack of role interdependence is, but thta is a separate discussion that's already happening 20 other threads.)
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I guess the question becomes, "Which is correct?"
You mean camping out to another character?
That's probably why having no vertical progression is not the smartest idea. A character should mean something, what's the point if it's an unmemorable experience of a few weeks. I don't play the game to get to max level, I play it to be with my friends, but there should be a clear progression path to support this.
I just have my tank character, I do have alts but they're not powerful enough to support either me or the guild, so I solely depend on others. I can't solo worth a damn on the character, but I don't mind.
Sorry but If I'm LFG some night after my guild has logged off I don't want to be forced to invite you. If everyone can heal on the server, the only reason I'd want you is if you're good.
If I rolled a healer, and my best friend rolled a healer, I want us to both to be able to complete dungeons together instead of having to kick him out for some random tank I don't know, who could be a horrible person/player and having to put up with it in order to advance.
Most people are perfectly able to make friends with people they don't need.
Not quite that simple.
Just switching builds to fill a role doesn't mean you'll actually *fill* that role. If you spend the majority of your time with one or two builds, and you're needed to switch to a third build that you have access to but have never played, you're useless to the group.
In the case of logging out and back in - to fill that role you had to take the time to play that character, to level it up and understand it's abilities and how it works.
Multiclassing is again shown to be more detriment than anything.
Anyone who supports the tank/heal/dps trinity is power hungry.
My ex-gf would sometimes just leave raids because "because I can." This sort of thought needs to be given to the single player games. The only reason to play a multi-player game is to play a social game. Not to play a game, and know that because you picked the right class, you can piss off anyone you want and get away with it.
I've seen thousands of people do and say the same thing! "Because I can," needs to go back to the days of, "No sleep till WE beat THIS encounter!"
Also the multi class system is pretty heavily controlled. You are picking between a few flavour abilities but the core skills are tied to your primary class and weapon choice.
Exactly. So what you're saying there, is that despite the ability to fill all possible roles, people will still be only good at a few and known for those few. Hence the whole idea of "role and identity" remains the same. You're just able to fill more than one.
I knew tons of people in Rift that - despite the ability to fill multiple roles - still only chose to play one. For those people, the system worked fine. For other, who usually have a ton of alts and can play them all, the system also worked fine. Seems like a win-win to me. So long as there ARE actual roles to be filled.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
And your argument differs from "We can do it all, we don't need x class or y class, or even another person because we'll just switch builds as needed." how exactly? I'd rather feel heroic by being heroic as opposed to being a architect/hacker/engineer/chemist/professor of physics/botanist/cobbler/every other job in existence. In real life, you're lucky to have the brain capacity to handle one profession, yet you think it's more heroic to be that one profession than every profession ever made? WTF are you smoking? rofl
Where did you hear about "primary class"? (Not trolling, honest question, i've been wondering about this.).
The example given at the panel was that you can be a Wizard (one of the 8 starting classes) and pick up the Rogue class (another one of the starting classes) and mix abilities between the two - and all classes use all weapons. I am not sure what would be considered "primary" class in this case. Although, now that i think about it.. they did say that "every class will use the same weapon differently", so uhm.. which weapon use am i going to get out of the Mage/Rogue? Hrmm...
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Hm. You will be useless to a group because your other build is still at tier 0. You haven't started. The character you described was already created and leveled. Time invested. The other build had 0 time invested.
The comment about power hungry.
The one-class trinity system has always supported me from day 1. While it's not perfect, people quickly realise that you need to group with others in such systems, and you quickly have a support base.
In action and multiclass games I see many people solo, wondering why no one talks or groups.
Games that rely on community have a much more streamlined uptake of newbees into the game, because they quickly get confronted with the grouping dilemma, which makes them make contact with the server community.
But you're nitpicking personal choice vs. game mechanic necessity.
Yes, I meant camping.
In a world where there is no vertical progression, you will not become more powerful, you will become more capable. The 'meaning' is your ability to overcome adversity, as any RPG strives to do. This way, content will remain perilous and difficult. Not being out leveled and trivial after you do it once.
That is the thing. In this game it is said that roles are pretty much going out of the window. Every person will be close to being able to fill any "role" whenever they want but just mix and match to lean your character one way or the other. That is how it is balanced.
@OP I agree with your post.
I didn't really realize the significance of everyone being able to switch classes willy nilly, until you brought up the topic.
I have great memories of my times in EQ1 and the need for team work and other players to get things done.
I can now see that not having to rely on certain classes will be more of a disadvantage rather than an advantage. I hope you bring this to the EQN devs attention.
You are right, that argument is pointless. It doesn't support the use of a stupid trinity mechanic that was used to compensate for old tech though. The system is old and needs to be changed. It is a lazy mechanic for lazy players. Mobs shouldn't stand there and let people stab it in the back while a heavy armor wearing insult slinger just yells at it. Would you? I think not and if so then you deserve to die from that DPSer stabbing you in the back.
stop thinking about it from a OMG they are changing things and think about it from the mobs point of view. Who are you going to attack? The idiot yelling at you (tank), the healer, or the guy whooping your arse? The tank would be dead last. Kind of funny, that's the generally how you kill a group of mobs ain't it?
You're comparing a pvp server with EQN which for all we know about thus far is only being talked about in a pve sense. Were you a troubador on EQ2 pve servers, you'd have had easymode on soloing clear to endgame. There's a huge difference between pvp and pve, and there should be.
That - as i said - is the main issue. The existence of roles, rather than how many one person can switch to on the same character.
I started my MMO career in AO - it was very much a trinity game - but my Fixer was able to fill DPS role, tank Role or backup Healer role. It all depended on how i played him - and the game was spectacular
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
This is a good example. It made me think (again) of Rift. If this were Rift instead of EQ2, then you (as a mage) would be able to switch to healer when required for group and your friend (the scout) would be able to tank when required for group. So you'd be able to play BOTH: the classes that you each wanted to play AND the classes that you found yourself needing in order to advance.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO