Fact of the matter is cash shops make a player pay 5 times more (if not more) than what they would normally pay for items that SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE across the board provided a flat monthly sub fee.
Never winter is a perfect example of how sleazy cash shops are.
Step #1-Produce and market a F2P game that at the most has two months worth of content (30.00 sub fee)
Step #2- Promise content patches without ever divulging a hard release date on content.
Step#3- Release cash shop content patches every two weeks that "make up for" the ever illusive "real" content patch (vanity items are no work opposed to real content) and......
Step#4- Watch people pay 150.00 in two months on cash shop items while pushing back the release of that ever illusive content patch.
It's textbook bait and switch. It's dirty. It's something I will never be fooled by again..ever.
True Story, I tried to log onto Rift Yesterday and was presented with a few cash options..... after which I logged off and uninstalled the game from my hard drive. Sitting and thinking about what had just happened I also uninstalled Tera and Neverwinter. I have come to the conclusion that F2P is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to MMOS and I refuse to further the trend by supporting their products.
Agreed. I think I will uninstall those games tonight too
Oh no, cash shop options! The horror! How will these games stay afloat now?Seriously? No complaints about the WoW cash shop, or the Dead Space 3 cash shop, games that are not F2P?Your evidence doesn't point to F2P being the "worst thing that has happened to MMOs". In fact, your evidence doesn't point to anything, because there is none. So you saw some "cash shop options". What were they? Were they xp boosters? Special mounts? Cosmetic items?You can't just say "I saw x and came to the conclusion that y". We need to see evidence, evidence that you can expand upon, otherwise your conclusion is pretty much pointless.Oh and Zuv, why are you just agreeing with him? Did you see the exact same things he did and come to the exact same conclusion, or are you just in an agreeable mood?To everyone reading this, this comment is not a troll or flame or anything, so please do not treat it as such; I'm just sick and tired of people hating on games or business models within games without giving any evidence, that's all.
So,
How's the meta-gaming in those F2P Publisher controlled economy?
Every game I have played with a Cash Shop where I have a high level character has sucked.
Anarchy Online- OMG where to start.. And where to finish for that matter. Aside from the fact that their Cash Shop makes the game P2W, Funcom uses the cash shop to fix all the games woes now. Not to mention the stealth nerfs to many of the methods the game used to have y which players could make money in the game. I'm just going to stop here becuase I can go on for pages on that game.
Rappelz- Everythig in that game is RNG and gues what? RNG modifiers all over the place in the Cash Shop. The economy is based on items from the Cash Shop being traded. P2W. Etc.
PWI games are pretty much the same.
GW2- Cash Shop itself is actually not that bad. But the less than subtle RNG mechanics, the 15% tax on TP use, the lack of inter-player trade functions, the fact that nothing in the game that isn't tied to Precursors is of little to no value and the precursors are staggeringly over priced, and the biggest poison of all time in a Cash Shop driven game. Selling Gold! ........ I meant to go on with this list, but honestly, Why?
Cash Shops suck and they ruin the games they are in.
We....that is, those of us who have rallied in support of a P2P game with no Cash Shop in a 50 something page thread, do not want a Cash Shop. I know it's difficult to believe but there enough people who don't feel entitled to an experience someone else pays for to actually support this title as a subscription based game. This is the only new game coming out to offer this. If you don't like it, there are tons of other options for you. But for god's sake let us have this one game dammit!
Oh man, I can't WAIT to see your face when Blizzard unveils their cash shop in WoW.
Wow is of no consequence to me. FF14 is the last option, not WoW. As long as this game's quality remains at least equal to or above that of Rift's, I'll remain subbed for as long as they don't have a Cash Shop. But if they do add one, I will pretty much be done with MMORPGs since, in my estimation, the genre that I once enjoyed will be officially dead. If knowing that gives you the warm fuzzies, I am happy to have made your forum time more enjoyable.
True Story, I tried to log onto Rift Yesterday and was presented with a few cash options..... after which I logged off and uninstalled the game from my hard drive. Sitting and thinking about what had just happened I also uninstalled Tera and Neverwinter. I have come to the conclusion that F2P is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to MMOS and I refuse to further the trend by supporting their products.
Agreed. I think I will uninstall those games tonight too
Oh no, cash shop options! The horror! How will these games stay afloat now?Seriously? No complaints about the WoW cash shop, or the Dead Space 3 cash shop, games that are not F2P?Your evidence doesn't point to F2P being the "worst thing that has happened to MMOs". In fact, your evidence doesn't point to anything, because there is none. So you saw some "cash shop options". What were they? Were they xp boosters? Special mounts? Cosmetic items?You can't just say "I saw x and came to the conclusion that y". We need to see evidence, evidence that you can expand upon, otherwise your conclusion is pretty much pointless.Oh and Zuv, why are you just agreeing with him? Did you see the exact same things he did and come to the exact same conclusion, or are you just in an agreeable mood?To everyone reading this, this comment is not a troll or flame or anything, so please do not treat it as such; I'm just sick and tired of people hating on games or business models within games without giving any evidence, that's all.
So,
How's the meta-gaming in those F2P Publisher controlled economy?
Every game I have played with a Cash Shop where I have a high level character has sucked.
Anarchy Online- OMG where to start.. And where to finish for that matter. Aside from the fact that their Cash Shop makes the game P2W, Funcom uses the cash shop to fix all the games woes now. Not to mention the stealth nerfs to many of the methods the game used to have y which players could make money in the game. I'm just going to stop here becuase I can go on for pages on that game.
Rappelz- Everythig in that game is RNG and gues what? RNG modifiers all over the place in the Cash Shop. The economy is based on items from the Cash Shop being traded. P2W. Etc.
PWI games are pretty much the same.
GW2- Cash Shop itself is actually not that bad. But the less than subtle RNG mechanics, the 15% tax on TP use, the lack of inter-player trade functions, the fact that nothing in the game that isn't tied to Precursors is of little to no value and the precursors are staggeringly over priced, and the biggest poison of all time in a Cash Shop driven game. Selling Gold! ........ I meant to go on with this list, but honestly, Why?
Cash Shops suck and they ruin the games they are in.
We....that is, those of us who have rallied in support of a P2P game with no Cash Shop in a 50 something page thread, do not want a Cash Shop. I know it's difficult to believe but there enough people who don't feel entitled to an experience someone else pays for to actually support this title as a subscription based game. This is the only new game coming out to offer this. If you don't like it, there are tons of other options for you. But for god's sake let us have this one game dammit!
Oh man, I can't WAIT to see your face when Blizzard unveils their cash shop in WoW.
Wow is of no consequence to me. FF14 is the last option, not WoW. As long as this game's quality remains at least equal to or above that of Rift's, I'll remain subbed for as long as they don't have a Cash Shop. But if they do add one, I will pretty much be done with MMORPGs since, in my estimation, the genre that I once enjoyed will be officially dead. If knowing that gives you the warm fuzzies, I am happy to have made your forum time more enjoyable.
Quite the contrary. You are letting something inconsequential ruin your good time. If you let a little optional thing like a cash shop keep you from enjoying playing an MMO, can you really say you ever enjoyed it in the first place? I believe that the real reason that you are leaving is because some misplaced sense of "f2p games and games with cash shops are for losers" and that if you play either a f2p game or a game with a cash hop, you will feel as though you are no better than the "losers"?
True Story, I tried to log onto Rift Yesterday and was presented with a few cash options..... after which I logged off and uninstalled the game from my hard drive. Sitting and thinking about what had just happened I also uninstalled Tera and Neverwinter. I have come to the conclusion that F2P is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to MMOS and I refuse to further the trend by supporting their products.
Agreed. I think I will uninstall those games tonight too
Oh no, cash shop options! The horror! How will these games stay afloat now?Seriously? No complaints about the WoW cash shop, or the Dead Space 3 cash shop, games that are not F2P?Your evidence doesn't point to F2P being the "worst thing that has happened to MMOs". In fact, your evidence doesn't point to anything, because there is none. So you saw some "cash shop options". What were they? Were they xp boosters? Special mounts? Cosmetic items?You can't just say "I saw x and came to the conclusion that y". We need to see evidence, evidence that you can expand upon, otherwise your conclusion is pretty much pointless.Oh and Zuv, why are you just agreeing with him? Did you see the exact same things he did and come to the exact same conclusion, or are you just in an agreeable mood?To everyone reading this, this comment is not a troll or flame or anything, so please do not treat it as such; I'm just sick and tired of people hating on games or business models within games without giving any evidence, that's all.
So,
How's the meta-gaming in those F2P Publisher controlled economy?
Every game I have played with a Cash Shop where I have a high level character has sucked.
Anarchy Online- OMG where to start.. And where to finish for that matter. Aside from the fact that their Cash Shop makes the game P2W, Funcom uses the cash shop to fix all the games woes now. Not to mention the stealth nerfs to many of the methods the game used to have y which players could make money in the game. I'm just going to stop here becuase I can go on for pages on that game.
Rappelz- Everythig in that game is RNG and gues what? RNG modifiers all over the place in the Cash Shop. The economy is based on items from the Cash Shop being traded. P2W. Etc.
PWI games are pretty much the same.
GW2- Cash Shop itself is actually not that bad. But the less than subtle RNG mechanics, the 15% tax on TP use, the lack of inter-player trade functions, the fact that nothing in the game that isn't tied to Precursors is of little to no value and the precursors are staggeringly over priced, and the biggest poison of all time in a Cash Shop driven game. Selling Gold! ........ I meant to go on with this list, but honestly, Why?
Cash Shops suck and they ruin the games they are in.
We....that is, those of us who have rallied in support of a P2P game with no Cash Shop in a 50 something page thread, do not want a Cash Shop. I know it's difficult to believe but there enough people who don't feel entitled to an experience someone else pays for to actually support this title as a subscription based game. This is the only new game coming out to offer this. If you don't like it, there are tons of other options for you. But for god's sake let us have this one game dammit!
Oh man, I can't WAIT to see your face when Blizzard unveils their cash shop in WoW.
Wow is of no consequence to me. FF14 is the last option, not WoW. As long as this game's quality remains at least equal to or above that of Rift's, I'll remain subbed for as long as they don't have a Cash Shop. But if they do add one, I will pretty much be done with MMORPGs since, in my estimation, the genre that I once enjoyed will be officially dead. If knowing that gives you the warm fuzzies, I am happy to have made your forum time more enjoyable.
Quite the contrary. You are letting something inconsequential ruin your good time. If you let a little optional thing like a cash shop keep you from enjoying playing an MMO, can you really say you ever enjoyed it in the first place? I believe that the real reason that you are leaving is because some misplaced sense of "f2p games and games with cash shops are for losers" and that if you play either a f2p game or a game with a cash hop, you will feel as though you are no better than the "losers"?
Am I close?
I enjoy getting items in an MMORPG. Even if there is some grind involved, but I still wouldn't buy them in a cash shop.
You are buying virtual goods. Virtual goods. They have no value, you are no different from people who bought gold in MMORPG's before except you are openly embracing the concept. I'm not going to call you a name, but I will say that not only are a lot of gamers sickened by f2p cash shop and purchasers, but if actual society knew the extent of the problem (people spending hundreds of dollars per month ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS) you would have a 60 minutes special all to yourself.
You simply cannot compare paying for a video game, or paying a subscription for content delivery to someone who spends money on fantasy items that don't exist at all in the real world but only inside of a game. They are not the same, psychologically they are not the same, economically they are not the same, and it is just appalling that so many people out there stoop to it. You are literally throwing your money away for virtual attainment, you are engaging in hapless consumerism. It is beyond explanation or understanding.
And that is just talking about the shame of purchasing things in a cash shop. What about the fact that everything in F2P cash shops are just run of the mill items that players have always obtained through enjoying the game itself. Through crafting, through defeating content, and you are letting them scam you into thinking that it deserves a separate purchase. I just don't understand you people, and I suspect I never will.
So I can't speak for the person you were responding to but I will say that personally yes I don't want to play a game with it. It would make me ashamed of a hobby I enjoy knowing that it had been reduced to microtransactions. Just like I wouldn't play monopoly with people who were sneaking money to the dealer. It is a game, and I find what cash shops do embarrassing personally.
You are buying virtual goods. Virtual goods. They have no value, you are no different from people who bought gold in MMORPG's before except you are openly embracing the concept. I'm not going to call you a name, but I will say that not only are a lot of gamers sickened by f2p cash shop and purchasers, but if actual society knew the extent of the problem (people spending hundreds of dollars per month ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS) you would have a 60 minutes special all to yourself.
You simply cannot compare paying for a video game, or paying a subscription for content delivery to someone who spends money on fantasy items that don't exist at all in the real world but only inside of a game. They are not the same, psychologically they are not the same, economically they are not the same, and it is just appalling that so many people out there stoop to it. You are literally throwing your money away for virtual attainment, you are engaging in hapless consumerism. It is beyond explanation or understanding.
Quite the contrary. You are letting something inconsequential ruin your good time. If you let a little optional thing like a cash shop keep you from enjoying playing an MMO, can you really say you ever enjoyed it in the first place? I believe that the real reason that you are leaving is because some misplaced sense of "f2p games and games with cash shops are for losers" and that if you play either a f2p game or a game with a cash hop, you will feel as though you are no better than the "losers"?
Am I close?
No, I am sorry, you are way off.
See, it's not about the items in the shop. Frankly it's not even the P2W stuff that bugs me..OK, it does, but in all honesty, the Whales that buy demigod powers are few and far enough in between where the few times I would encounter them, it's not enough to ruin the experience. Certainly diminish it greatly, but if the game was otherwise worthy, I could live with that.
I am a meta-gamer. I play MMORPGs not just for leveling and questing etc. I am a huge crafter and I really enjoy playing off my MMO's economy to use money to make money. The ability to use real money to acquire something of value in the game and to be able to trade it for Gold destroys the meta-games. That is how a cash shop always affects me, it' a constant obstacle always blocking me when ever I try to engage in those activities since they are set up to do just that.
As for everything else above that line, it's just far too subjective to take you seriously. "Inconsequential"? I cannot even begin to wrap my head around the idea you can say that to me without you even knowing what is important to me in the 1st place.
You are buying virtual goods. Virtual goods. They have no value, you are no different from people who bought gold in MMORPG's before except you are openly embracing the concept. I'm not going to call you a name, but I will say that not only are a lot of gamers sickened by f2p cash shop and purchasers, but if actual society knew the extent of the problem (people spending hundreds of dollars per month ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS) you would have a 60 minutes special all to yourself.
You simply cannot compare paying for a video game, or paying a subscription for content delivery to someone who spends money on fantasy items that don't exist at all in the real world but only inside of a game. They are not the same, psychologically they are not the same, economically they are not the same, and it is just appalling that so many people out there stoop to it. You are literally throwing your money away for virtual attainment, you are engaging in hapless consumerism. It is beyond explanation or understanding.
Well, when you put it that way...
You know what's even sadder? Take a game like Anarchy Online where it's a double dipper. It is still subscription based but also has a cash shop. Now go into the Cash Shop and buy that really cool looking social armor and now you have a complete badass look that you just purchased with real money..........then stop paying your subscription.
You get where I went with that right?
Yep, you guessed it, That money you paid to the publisher of your game could have been more effective if you used it as toilet paper since you don't even have access to the items you paid for.
any developer that market their MMO as F2P is a scammer in my eyes since any game that has a shop should not be called FREE to play. They give the illusion you can play the game for free, sure I can log on and attack monsters, but aside from that I am bound to buy many stuff in their shop to truly unlock the game. So in a summary, you were only provided a Demo of the game, and to buy the full version you have to continuously pay them to keep the full version of the game. tell me that is not a scam?
moreover, items in shop even mounts gives less sense for players to feel proud of their achievements, and lets be honest here everyone wants to show their achievements in game. Best example, I would work hard to get a mount for 2 month straight, and then a player who quit long time ago came just once I got the mount and next day he has the same one, except he just bought it from the shop?
Meh I wont go over more explaining, but the fact remain F2P MMOs are a marketing scam.
So is FFXIV really going to be Subscription based? And if so will it have a cash shop? I'm finding it hard to believe. I don't think there's been a new triple A subscription based MMORPG since WoW in 2004.
It is the highest quality game on the market,weather you like it or not is not the point.You pay for quality and there are lots of good reasons for subbed as well as they have mentioned them several times.
It gives them a much better idea of how much money they are operating with,rather than random cash shop sales.
Also something most important to me is that Square Enix is probably the ONLY developer ever and left ,to not throw a cash shop at us.I absolutely hate cash shops,their only agenda is to try and get more money out of us,i enjoy straight up front,NO MISLEADING costs.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I preordered this game yesterday not because i think the game will be great that i don't know till i played it . I bought the game because its tab targeting and because the owner said he would close the game down rather than go F2P and have a cash shop. I am supporting that way of thinking because he is taking a risk and i hate F2P. Plus the sub is only 10 euro a month.
Originally posted by keenber I preordered this game yesterday not because i think the game will be great that i don't know till i played it . I bought the game because its tab targeting and because the owner said he would close the game down rather than go F2P and have a cash shop. I am supporting that way of thinking because he is taking a risk and i hate F2P. Plus the sub is only 10 euro a month.
The problem for P2P right now isn't the business model as many suggest. If you wish to offer any product or service, you 1st need to find out if it fills a need. Then, how long can you fill that need. Then you have to match your business model to the offering.
In the past few years we have seen products that do not fill any needs at least not long term. So you have these developers who release games that players do not wish to play for more than a month or two. So for a game like that, a sub model is a mismatch.
So, when the player bases dry up, these publishers aren't about to blame their product for being crap. They blame the economy and the changes to the market. The market hasn't changed. If you have a product people want at a reasonable price, they will pay for it. But if you are going to release a game with a subscription, the 1st priority would be to make sure you have something players will want to continue to pay to log in month after month.
Originally posted by keenber I preordered this game yesterday not because i think the game will be great that i don't know till i played it . I bought the game because its tab targeting and because the owner said he would close the game down rather than go F2P and have a cash shop. I am supporting that way of thinking because he is taking a risk and i hate F2P. Plus the sub is only 10 euro a month.
The problem for P2P right now isn't the business model as many suggest. If you wish to offer any product or service, you 1st need to find out if it fills a need. Then, how long can you fill that need. Then you have to match your business model to the offering.
In the past few years we have seen products that do not fill any needs at least not long term. So you have these developers who release games that players do not wish to play for more than a month or two. So for a game like that, a sub model is a mismatch.
So, when the player bases dry up, these publishers aren't about to blame their product for being crap. They blame the economy and the changes to the market. The market hasn't changed. If you have a product people want at a reasonable price, they will pay for it. But if you are going to release a game with a subscription, the 1st priority would be to make sure you have something players will want to continue to pay to log in month after month.
What you are talking about is market value of your game and that is a huge factor in a game worth as P2P, B2P or F2P. If you are going to charge a price you better have the goods to back it up. This brings this to perceived market value. This is where the people that buy the product see a product as being worth no more then a set price. Looking around the forums what do you think the perceived value is for MMOs is now? MMOs like FF14 moving to consoles, what is the perceived value of console games? Taking this main stream console do you think console players will be happy to pay a sub? (Most console games have free online service) Good questions, what is the answers?
Originally posted by keenber I preordered this game yesterday not because i think the game will be great that i don't know till i played it . I bought the game because its tab targeting and because the owner said he would close the game down rather than go F2P and have a cash shop. I am supporting that way of thinking because he is taking a risk and i hate F2P. Plus the sub is only 10 euro a month.
The problem for P2P right now isn't the business model as many suggest. If you wish to offer any product or service, you 1st need to find out if it fills a need. Then, how long can you fill that need. Then you have to match your business model to the offering.
In the past few years we have seen products that do not fill any needs at least not long term. So you have these developers who release games that players do not wish to play for more than a month or two. So for a game like that, a sub model is a mismatch.
So, when the player bases dry up, these publishers aren't about to blame their product for being crap. They blame the economy and the changes to the market. The market hasn't changed. If you have a product people want at a reasonable price, they will pay for it. But if you are going to release a game with a subscription, the 1st priority would be to make sure you have something players will want to continue to pay to log in month after month.
What you are talking about is market value of your game and that is a huge factor in a game worth as P2P, B2P or F2P. If you are going to charge a price you better have the goods to back it up. This brings this to perceived market value. This is where the people that buy the product see a product as being worth no more then a set price. Looking around the forums what do you think the perceived value is for MMOs is now? MMOs like FF14 moving to consoles, what is the perceived value of console games? Taking this main stream console do you think console players will be happy to pay a sub? (Most console games have free online service) Good questions, what is the answers?
The perception has been established right now. It's an obstacle to have to overcome for certain. We are already seeing it. "I'm not paying a sub for an MMO ever again" But this really is a false perception based on a long string of games that were not worthy of a subscription. We didn't get here overnight and I'd dare say one game isn't going to break that perception. Although I suppose one good unexpected sleeper could but that's rather unlikely. The solution is for games like this one to pay attention to what makes players want to keep coming back to the game, develop games that have long term playability and make sure the games have quality. Just like this didn't happen with one failed sub model, it will take a string of successful sub models to re establish P2P. But the current F2P trend started with LOTRO. So, who knows, mybe FF14 will be the 1st in a string of returning P2P model games. If it isn't, it will certainly be the last nail in the coffin for non-cash shop games. That much is obvious. The entire future of P2P probably rests on the success of this one game right now. which is why I have said, If this one fails, I see myself walking away from MMORPGs since IMO, this is the only MMORPG left.
True Story, I tried to log onto Rift Yesterday and was presented with a few cash options..... after which I logged off and uninstalled the game from my hard drive. Sitting and thinking about what had just happened I also uninstalled Tera and Neverwinter. I have come to the conclusion that F2P is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to MMOS and I refuse to further the trend by supporting their products.
Agreed. I think I will uninstall those games tonight too
Oh no, cash shop options! The horror! How will these games stay afloat now?Seriously? No complaints about the WoW cash shop, or the Dead Space 3 cash shop, games that are not F2P?Your evidence doesn't point to F2P being the "worst thing that has happened to MMOs". In fact, your evidence doesn't point to anything, because there is none. So you saw some "cash shop options". What were they? Were they xp boosters? Special mounts? Cosmetic items?You can't just say "I saw x and came to the conclusion that y". We need to see evidence, evidence that you can expand upon, otherwise your conclusion is pretty much pointless.Oh and Zuv, why are you just agreeing with him? Did you see the exact same things he did and come to the exact same conclusion, or are you just in an agreeable mood?To everyone reading this, this comment is not a troll or flame or anything, so please do not treat it as such; I'm just sick and tired of people hating on games or business models within games without giving any evidence, that's all.
So,
How's the meta-gaming in those F2P Publisher controlled economy?
Every game I have played with a Cash Shop where I have a high level character has sucked.
Anarchy Online- OMG where to start.. And where to finish for that matter. Aside from the fact that their Cash Shop makes the game P2W, Funcom uses the cash shop to fix all the games woes now. Not to mention the stealth nerfs to many of the methods the game used to have y which players could make money in the game. I'm just going to stop here becuase I can go on for pages on that game.
Rappelz- Everythig in that game is RNG and gues what? RNG modifiers all over the place in the Cash Shop. The economy is based on items from the Cash Shop being traded. P2W. Etc.
PWI games are pretty much the same.
GW2- Cash Shop itself is actually not that bad. But the less than subtle RNG mechanics, the 15% tax on TP use, the lack of inter-player trade functions, the fact that nothing in the game that isn't tied to Precursors is of little to no value and the precursors are staggeringly over priced, and the biggest poison of all time in a Cash Shop driven game. Selling Gold! ........ I meant to go on with this list, but honestly, Why?
Cash Shops suck and they ruin the games they are in.
We....that is, those of us who have rallied in support of a P2P game with no Cash Shop in a 50 something page thread, do not want a Cash Shop. I know it's difficult to believe but there enough people who don't feel entitled to an experience someone else pays for to actually support this title as a subscription based game. This is the only new game coming out to offer this. If you don't like it, there are tons of other options for you. But for god's sake let us have this one game dammit!
Oh man, I can't WAIT to see your face when Blizzard unveils their cash shop in WoW.
Wow is of no consequence to me. FF14 is the last option, not WoW. As long as this game's quality remains at least equal to or above that of Rift's, I'll remain subbed for as long as they don't have a Cash Shop. But if they do add one, I will pretty much be done with MMORPGs since, in my estimation, the genre that I once enjoyed will be officially dead. If knowing that gives you the warm fuzzies, I am happy to have made your forum time more enjoyable.
Quite the contrary. You are letting something inconsequential ruin your good time. If you let a little optional thing like a cash shop keep you from enjoying playing an MMO, can you really say you ever enjoyed it in the first place? I believe that the real reason that you are leaving is because some misplaced sense of "f2p games and games with cash shops are for losers" and that if you play either a f2p game or a game with a cash hop, you will feel as though you are no better than the "losers"?
Am I close?
I enjoy getting items in an MMORPG. Even if there is some grind involved, but I still wouldn't buy them in a cash shop.
You are buying virtual goods. Virtual goods. They have no value, you are no different from people who bought gold in MMORPG's before except you are openly embracing the concept. I'm not going to call you a name, but I will say that not only are a lot of gamers sickened by f2p cash shop and purchasers, but if actual society knew the extent of the problem (people spending hundreds of dollars per month ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS) you would have a 60 minutes special all to yourself.
You simply cannot compare paying for a video game, or paying a subscription for content delivery to someone who spends money on fantasy items that don't exist at all in the real world but only inside of a game. They are not the same, psychologically they are not the same, economically they are not the same, and it is just appalling that so many people out there stoop to it. You are literally throwing your money away for virtual attainment, you are engaging in hapless consumerism. It is beyond explanation or understanding.
And that is just talking about the shame of purchasing things in a cash shop. What about the fact that everything in F2P cash shops are just run of the mill items that players have always obtained through enjoying the game itself. Through crafting, through defeating content, and you are letting them scam you into thinking that it deserves a separate purchase. I just don't understand you people, and I suspect I never will.
So I can't speak for the person you were responding to but I will say that personally yes I don't want to play a game with it. It would make me ashamed of a hobby I enjoy knowing that it had been reduced to microtransactions. Just like I wouldn't play monopoly with people who were sneaking money to the dealer. It is a game, and I find what cash shops do embarrassing personally.
And yet the same people who hate cash shops have no problem with buying DLC, despite it being the exact same thing.
True Story, I tried to log onto Rift Yesterday and was presented with a few cash options..... after which I logged off and uninstalled the game from my hard drive. Sitting and thinking about what had just happened I also uninstalled Tera and Neverwinter. I have come to the conclusion that F2P is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to MMOS and I refuse to further the trend by supporting their products.
Agreed. I think I will uninstall those games tonight too
Oh no, cash shop options! The horror! How will these games stay afloat now?Seriously? No complaints about the WoW cash shop, or the Dead Space 3 cash shop, games that are not F2P?Your evidence doesn't point to F2P being the "worst thing that has happened to MMOs". In fact, your evidence doesn't point to anything, because there is none. So you saw some "cash shop options". What were they? Were they xp boosters? Special mounts? Cosmetic items?You can't just say "I saw x and came to the conclusion that y". We need to see evidence, evidence that you can expand upon, otherwise your conclusion is pretty much pointless.Oh and Zuv, why are you just agreeing with him? Did you see the exact same things he did and come to the exact same conclusion, or are you just in an agreeable mood?To everyone reading this, this comment is not a troll or flame or anything, so please do not treat it as such; I'm just sick and tired of people hating on games or business models within games without giving any evidence, that's all.
So,
How's the meta-gaming in those F2P Publisher controlled economy?
Every game I have played with a Cash Shop where I have a high level character has sucked.
Anarchy Online- OMG where to start.. And where to finish for that matter. Aside from the fact that their Cash Shop makes the game P2W, Funcom uses the cash shop to fix all the games woes now. Not to mention the stealth nerfs to many of the methods the game used to have y which players could make money in the game. I'm just going to stop here becuase I can go on for pages on that game.
Rappelz- Everythig in that game is RNG and gues what? RNG modifiers all over the place in the Cash Shop. The economy is based on items from the Cash Shop being traded. P2W. Etc.
PWI games are pretty much the same.
GW2- Cash Shop itself is actually not that bad. But the less than subtle RNG mechanics, the 15% tax on TP use, the lack of inter-player trade functions, the fact that nothing in the game that isn't tied to Precursors is of little to no value and the precursors are staggeringly over priced, and the biggest poison of all time in a Cash Shop driven game. Selling Gold! ........ I meant to go on with this list, but honestly, Why?
Cash Shops suck and they ruin the games they are in.
We....that is, those of us who have rallied in support of a P2P game with no Cash Shop in a 50 something page thread, do not want a Cash Shop. I know it's difficult to believe but there enough people who don't feel entitled to an experience someone else pays for to actually support this title as a subscription based game. This is the only new game coming out to offer this. If you don't like it, there are tons of other options for you. But for god's sake let us have this one game dammit!
Oh man, I can't WAIT to see your face when Blizzard unveils their cash shop in WoW.
Wow is of no consequence to me. FF14 is the last option, not WoW. As long as this game's quality remains at least equal to or above that of Rift's, I'll remain subbed for as long as they don't have a Cash Shop. But if they do add one, I will pretty much be done with MMORPGs since, in my estimation, the genre that I once enjoyed will be officially dead. If knowing that gives you the warm fuzzies, I am happy to have made your forum time more enjoyable.
Quite the contrary. You are letting something inconsequential ruin your good time. If you let a little optional thing like a cash shop keep you from enjoying playing an MMO, can you really say you ever enjoyed it in the first place? I believe that the real reason that you are leaving is because some misplaced sense of "f2p games and games with cash shops are for losers" and that if you play either a f2p game or a game with a cash hop, you will feel as though you are no better than the "losers"?
Am I close?
I enjoy getting items in an MMORPG. Even if there is some grind involved, but I still wouldn't buy them in a cash shop.
You are buying virtual goods. Virtual goods. They have no value, you are no different from people who bought gold in MMORPG's before except you are openly embracing the concept. I'm not going to call you a name, but I will say that not only are a lot of gamers sickened by f2p cash shop and purchasers, but if actual society knew the extent of the problem (people spending hundreds of dollars per month ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS) you would have a 60 minutes special all to yourself.
You simply cannot compare paying for a video game, or paying a subscription for content delivery to someone who spends money on fantasy items that don't exist at all in the real world but only inside of a game. They are not the same, psychologically they are not the same, economically they are not the same, and it is just appalling that so many people out there stoop to it. You are literally throwing your money away for virtual attainment, you are engaging in hapless consumerism. It is beyond explanation or understanding.
And that is just talking about the shame of purchasing things in a cash shop. What about the fact that everything in F2P cash shops are just run of the mill items that players have always obtained through enjoying the game itself. Through crafting, through defeating content, and you are letting them scam you into thinking that it deserves a separate purchase. I just don't understand you people, and I suspect I never will.
So I can't speak for the person you were responding to but I will say that personally yes I don't want to play a game with it. It would make me ashamed of a hobby I enjoy knowing that it had been reduced to microtransactions. Just like I wouldn't play monopoly with people who were sneaking money to the dealer. It is a game, and I find what cash shops do embarrassing personally.
And yet the same people who hate cash shops have no problem with buying DLC, despite it being the exact same thing.
That depends entirely on what the DLC is. If it's a full content DLC featuring new gameplay, systems, items, etc. all in one package (and where the players earn the rewards by playing the new content) then it is essentially an expansion pack no different to those of older MMOs, though perhaps smaller in size.
If it is a random item that you just outright buy then it isn't DLC, it's a cash shop purchase, even if it's the only item in the shop.
FYI we're only talking about MMOs here, not single player games... that's a completely different issue.
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Just because you're supporting this game doesn't guarantee a change. Final Fantasy is a huge franchise with decades of history and a huge, huge fan base. The MMOs with original lore don't have that, so going either f2p or b2p is the safest choice for them, because it's 2013, not 2004. This is an age will gamers will jump from one game to another for the smallest of reasons.
And I personally, for me, paying a sub will eventually turn my games into a job. I want to be able to pay what I want, when I want, and I'd rather not be shamed for that.
PS. This myth that p2p communities are so much more mature is crap. As much as I hear about what happens in WoW and Tera before it went free to play, I highly doubt there's a huge difference. Join the right guild or whatever in any game and you'll be away from the jerks, crazies and children.
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Yeah sure. I'd like to borrow that crystal ball of yours.
The majority of F2P MMO's is garbage nobody wants to play (FlyFF).
Rift went F2P after it killed itself with the expac and probably all the background stuff Trion is doing. Rift was a new game that did just fine for a few years without F2P.
Most other F2P games are also transfers from P2P (WAR, SW:TOR) and represent failed games.
Some are non-failed transfers but the games became considerably worse (SOE).
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Yeah sure. I'd like to borrow that crystal ball of yours.
The majority of F2P MMO's is garbage nobody wants to play (FlyFF).
Rift went F2P after it killed itself with the expac and probably all the background stuff Trion is doing. Rift was a new game that did just fine for a few years without F2P.
Most other F2P games are also transfers from P2P (WAR, SW:TOR) and represent failed games.
Some are non-failed transfers but the games became considerably worse (SOE).
Also want to point out a lot of the p2p games that went f2p only offer all content to people with subscriptions. I don't consider those f2p (f2p has to have all content for free with no subscriptions or pay per content requirement)
In fact the only games I can think of that went from p2p to legit f2p were L2, Aion, and Tera (correct me if im wrong)
I agree that f2p games are generally garbage, and any game that plans to go f2p off the bat I typically skip
In fact a game like this, which did fail, and chooses to stick with p2p, I can respect that, shows dedication to good development and respect for those who did pay to play it.
Nothing is a bigger kick in the face, and turn off, than a p2p going f2p like SWTOR where they completely forget that a lot of its past players paid for the game, and are now restricted in content among other things unless they pay again...Tera did it right, gave past players founder status and removed silly restrictions.
couldn't agree more I beta'd for SWTOR and played it heavily for 6 months. I went back recently and was nauseated by the "subscribe now" tabs every where. They should rename it SNTOR (Subscribe Nau the Old Reacharound)
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
Your reasoning kinda falls flat when faced with games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2, as well as games that obviously see updates like Rift, TERA, and Neverwinter.
Do you know why new "swag" is developed to sell in the cash shop? So that people have stuff to buy. They can't just buy the same things over and over again in a game like an MMO; the human mind just doesn't work that way. Not only that, but the money made from cash shop sales goes into updates and expansions more than they do for "swag".
Neverwinter is dying on the vine.. Only thing keeping them afloat is new players.95% of beta members don't even play that game anymore and have stopped creating in the foundry. Their servers went from 50 to 20.
I'm sure it will be a dead zone like other subscription based MMO's.
World of Warcraft,
EVE Online.
Total wasteland.
ya exept they arnt, bu the way WoW is STILL making more money then any other MMO out there so I don't think you can call it a failure yet.
that aside this game being a sub game without cash shop, is just icing on the cake, for me. now that im in beta I can see for myself first hand the gme is well made better then most MMOs comeing out of late, and I know I will get more then my monies worth.
WoW is still making tons of cash but honestly , WoW's pvp right now is a mess fest this expansion, PVE is pretty nice and difficult but blizzard still can't balance their game for **** and the amount of RNG is also awful design.. It also is not engaging in the slightest, since all story is told through gaining rep through awfully generated daily quests.
FFXIV feels like polished and balanced vanilla WoW, gives you that epic sense of when you first started playing WoW. I will also gladly pay 13 a month for it, I prefer p2p.
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Yeah sure. I'd like to borrow that crystal ball of yours.
The majority of F2P MMO's is garbage nobody wants to play (FlyFF).
Rift went F2P after it killed itself with the expac and probably all the background stuff Trion is doing. Rift was a new game that did just fine for a few years without F2P.
Most other F2P games are also transfers from P2P (WAR, SW:TOR) and represent failed games.
Some are non-failed transfers but the games became considerably worse (SOE).
Also want to point out a lot of the p2p games that went f2p only offer all content to people with subscriptions. I don't consider those f2p (f2p has to have all content for free with no subscriptions or pay per content requirement)
In fact the only games I can think of that went from p2p to legit f2p were L2, Aion, and Tera (correct me if im wrong)
I agree that f2p games are generally garbage, and any game that plans to go f2p off the bat I typically skip
In fact a game like this, which did fail, and chooses to stick with p2p, I can respect that, shows dedication to good development and respect for those who did pay to play it.
Nothing is a bigger kick in the face, and turn off, than a p2p going f2p like SWTOR where they completely forget that a lot of its past players paid for the game, and are now restricted in content among other things unless they pay again...Tera did it right, gave past players founder status and removed silly restrictions.
Agreed. Too many people don't know how to do f2p and cash shops correctly.
If I could compare this to anything, its the next gen consoles. After Microsoft made all those blunders with the XBox One "features" (akin to a poorly implemented cash shop), all Sony had to do was say, "We are learning from Microsoft's mistakes and not forcing those restrictions on the PS4" (learning from the mistakes of games with poorly implemented cash shops and implementing their cash shop in a much better way), and bam, everyone flocked to the PS4.
Comments
Fact of the matter is cash shops make a player pay 5 times more (if not more) than what they would normally pay for items that SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE across the board provided a flat monthly sub fee.
Never winter is a perfect example of how sleazy cash shops are.
Step #1-Produce and market a F2P game that at the most has two months worth of content (30.00 sub fee)
Step #2- Promise content patches without ever divulging a hard release date on content.
Step#3- Release cash shop content patches every two weeks that "make up for" the ever illusive "real" content patch (vanity items are no work opposed to real content) and......
Step#4- Watch people pay 150.00 in two months on cash shop items while pushing back the release of that ever illusive content patch.
It's textbook bait and switch. It's dirty. It's something I will never be fooled by again..ever.
Wow is of no consequence to me. FF14 is the last option, not WoW. As long as this game's quality remains at least equal to or above that of Rift's, I'll remain subbed for as long as they don't have a Cash Shop. But if they do add one, I will pretty much be done with MMORPGs since, in my estimation, the genre that I once enjoyed will be officially dead. If knowing that gives you the warm fuzzies, I am happy to have made your forum time more enjoyable.
Quite the contrary. You are letting something inconsequential ruin your good time. If you let a little optional thing like a cash shop keep you from enjoying playing an MMO, can you really say you ever enjoyed it in the first place? I believe that the real reason that you are leaving is because some misplaced sense of "f2p games and games with cash shops are for losers" and that if you play either a f2p game or a game with a cash hop, you will feel as though you are no better than the "losers"?
Am I close?
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I enjoy getting items in an MMORPG. Even if there is some grind involved, but I still wouldn't buy them in a cash shop.
You are buying virtual goods. Virtual goods. They have no value, you are no different from people who bought gold in MMORPG's before except you are openly embracing the concept. I'm not going to call you a name, but I will say that not only are a lot of gamers sickened by f2p cash shop and purchasers, but if actual society knew the extent of the problem (people spending hundreds of dollars per month ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS) you would have a 60 minutes special all to yourself.
You simply cannot compare paying for a video game, or paying a subscription for content delivery to someone who spends money on fantasy items that don't exist at all in the real world but only inside of a game. They are not the same, psychologically they are not the same, economically they are not the same, and it is just appalling that so many people out there stoop to it. You are literally throwing your money away for virtual attainment, you are engaging in hapless consumerism. It is beyond explanation or understanding.
And that is just talking about the shame of purchasing things in a cash shop. What about the fact that everything in F2P cash shops are just run of the mill items that players have always obtained through enjoying the game itself. Through crafting, through defeating content, and you are letting them scam you into thinking that it deserves a separate purchase. I just don't understand you people, and I suspect I never will.
So I can't speak for the person you were responding to but I will say that personally yes I don't want to play a game with it. It would make me ashamed of a hobby I enjoy knowing that it had been reduced to microtransactions. Just like I wouldn't play monopoly with people who were sneaking money to the dealer. It is a game, and I find what cash shops do embarrassing personally.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Well, when you put it that way...
No, I am sorry, you are way off.
See, it's not about the items in the shop. Frankly it's not even the P2W stuff that bugs me..OK, it does, but in all honesty, the Whales that buy demigod powers are few and far enough in between where the few times I would encounter them, it's not enough to ruin the experience. Certainly diminish it greatly, but if the game was otherwise worthy, I could live with that.
I am a meta-gamer. I play MMORPGs not just for leveling and questing etc. I am a huge crafter and I really enjoy playing off my MMO's economy to use money to make money. The ability to use real money to acquire something of value in the game and to be able to trade it for Gold destroys the meta-games. That is how a cash shop always affects me, it' a constant obstacle always blocking me when ever I try to engage in those activities since they are set up to do just that.
As for everything else above that line, it's just far too subjective to take you seriously. "Inconsequential"? I cannot even begin to wrap my head around the idea you can say that to me without you even knowing what is important to me in the 1st place.
You know what's even sadder? Take a game like Anarchy Online where it's a double dipper. It is still subscription based but also has a cash shop. Now go into the Cash Shop and buy that really cool looking social armor and now you have a complete badass look that you just purchased with real money..........then stop paying your subscription.
You get where I went with that right?
Yep, you guessed it, That money you paid to the publisher of your game could have been more effective if you used it as toilet paper since you don't even have access to the items you paid for.
any developer that market their MMO as F2P is a scammer in my eyes since any game that has a shop should not be called FREE to play. They give the illusion you can play the game for free, sure I can log on and attack monsters, but aside from that I am bound to buy many stuff in their shop to truly unlock the game. So in a summary, you were only provided a Demo of the game, and to buy the full version you have to continuously pay them to keep the full version of the game. tell me that is not a scam?
moreover, items in shop even mounts gives less sense for players to feel proud of their achievements, and lets be honest here everyone wants to show their achievements in game. Best example, I would work hard to get a mount for 2 month straight, and then a player who quit long time ago came just once I got the mount and next day he has the same one, except he just bought it from the shop?
Meh I wont go over more explaining, but the fact remain F2P MMOs are a marketing scam.
It is the highest quality game on the market,weather you like it or not is not the point.You pay for quality and there are lots of good reasons for subbed as well as they have mentioned them several times.
It gives them a much better idea of how much money they are operating with,rather than random cash shop sales.
Also something most important to me is that Square Enix is probably the ONLY developer ever and left ,to not throw a cash shop at us.I absolutely hate cash shops,their only agenda is to try and get more money out of us,i enjoy straight up front,NO MISLEADING costs.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The problem for P2P right now isn't the business model as many suggest. If you wish to offer any product or service, you 1st need to find out if it fills a need. Then, how long can you fill that need. Then you have to match your business model to the offering.
In the past few years we have seen products that do not fill any needs at least not long term. So you have these developers who release games that players do not wish to play for more than a month or two. So for a game like that, a sub model is a mismatch.
So, when the player bases dry up, these publishers aren't about to blame their product for being crap. They blame the economy and the changes to the market. The market hasn't changed. If you have a product people want at a reasonable price, they will pay for it. But if you are going to release a game with a subscription, the 1st priority would be to make sure you have something players will want to continue to pay to log in month after month.
What you are talking about is market value of your game and that is a huge factor in a game worth as P2P, B2P or F2P. If you are going to charge a price you better have the goods to back it up. This brings this to perceived market value. This is where the people that buy the product see a product as being worth no more then a set price. Looking around the forums what do you think the perceived value is for MMOs is now? MMOs like FF14 moving to consoles, what is the perceived value of console games? Taking this main stream console do you think console players will be happy to pay a sub? (Most console games have free online service) Good questions, what is the answers?
The perception has been established right now. It's an obstacle to have to overcome for certain. We are already seeing it. "I'm not paying a sub for an MMO ever again" But this really is a false perception based on a long string of games that were not worthy of a subscription. We didn't get here overnight and I'd dare say one game isn't going to break that perception. Although I suppose one good unexpected sleeper could but that's rather unlikely. The solution is for games like this one to pay attention to what makes players want to keep coming back to the game, develop games that have long term playability and make sure the games have quality. Just like this didn't happen with one failed sub model, it will take a string of successful sub models to re establish P2P. But the current F2P trend started with LOTRO. So, who knows, mybe FF14 will be the 1st in a string of returning P2P model games. If it isn't, it will certainly be the last nail in the coffin for non-cash shop games. That much is obvious. The entire future of P2P probably rests on the success of this one game right now. which is why I have said, If this one fails, I see myself walking away from MMORPGs since IMO, this is the only MMORPG left.
I said for the longest this game will be sub based and boy did I get flamed.
God am I glad I'm right and it's proven that it sub based.
Avant Garde.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
And yet the same people who hate cash shops have no problem with buying DLC, despite it being the exact same thing.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
That depends entirely on what the DLC is. If it's a full content DLC featuring new gameplay, systems, items, etc. all in one package (and where the players earn the rewards by playing the new content) then it is essentially an expansion pack no different to those of older MMOs, though perhaps smaller in size.
If it is a random item that you just outright buy then it isn't DLC, it's a cash shop purchase, even if it's the only item in the shop.
FYI we're only talking about MMOs here, not single player games... that's a completely different issue.
I'm all for this subscription and definitely will be jumping in this as soon as I can. I like the idea that the money I'm putting into the subscription will help fund updates/expansions/material for the game as a whole and not for the development of more "swag" that they can try to sell in a cash shop.
f2p is here to stay. Nothing you can do about it, except ignore it if you hate it so much. People who bash f2p never once look at the games with fair f2p models like Tera and Rift. Most of these games people are referring to have faded into irrelevancy.
Just because you're supporting this game doesn't guarantee a change. Final Fantasy is a huge franchise with decades of history and a huge, huge fan base. The MMOs with original lore don't have that, so going either f2p or b2p is the safest choice for them, because it's 2013, not 2004. This is an age will gamers will jump from one game to another for the smallest of reasons.
And I personally, for me, paying a sub will eventually turn my games into a job. I want to be able to pay what I want, when I want, and I'd rather not be shamed for that.
PS. This myth that p2p communities are so much more mature is crap. As much as I hear about what happens in WoW and Tera before it went free to play, I highly doubt there's a huge difference. Join the right guild or whatever in any game and you'll be away from the jerks, crazies and children.
Yeah sure. I'd like to borrow that crystal ball of yours.
The majority of F2P MMO's is garbage nobody wants to play (FlyFF).
Rift went F2P after it killed itself with the expac and probably all the background stuff Trion is doing. Rift was a new game that did just fine for a few years without F2P.
Most other F2P games are also transfers from P2P (WAR, SW:TOR) and represent failed games.
Some are non-failed transfers but the games became considerably worse (SOE).
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Also want to point out a lot of the p2p games that went f2p only offer all content to people with subscriptions. I don't consider those f2p (f2p has to have all content for free with no subscriptions or pay per content requirement)
In fact the only games I can think of that went from p2p to legit f2p were L2, Aion, and Tera (correct me if im wrong)
I agree that f2p games are generally garbage, and any game that plans to go f2p off the bat I typically skip
In fact a game like this, which did fail, and chooses to stick with p2p, I can respect that, shows dedication to good development and respect for those who did pay to play it.
Nothing is a bigger kick in the face, and turn off, than a p2p going f2p like SWTOR where they completely forget that a lot of its past players paid for the game, and are now restricted in content among other things unless they pay again...Tera did it right, gave past players founder status and removed silly restrictions.
Your reasoning kinda falls flat when faced with games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2, as well as games that obviously see updates like Rift, TERA, and Neverwinter.
Do you know why new "swag" is developed to sell in the cash shop? So that people have stuff to buy. They can't just buy the same things over and over again in a game like an MMO; the human mind just doesn't work that way. Not only that, but the money made from cash shop sales goes into updates and expansions more than they do for "swag".
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
WoW is still making tons of cash but honestly , WoW's pvp right now is a mess fest this expansion, PVE is pretty nice and difficult but blizzard still can't balance their game for **** and the amount of RNG is also awful design.. It also is not engaging in the slightest, since all story is told through gaining rep through awfully generated daily quests.
FFXIV feels like polished and balanced vanilla WoW, gives you that epic sense of when you first started playing WoW. I will also gladly pay 13 a month for it, I prefer p2p.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Agreed. Too many people don't know how to do f2p and cash shops correctly.
If I could compare this to anything, its the next gen consoles. After Microsoft made all those blunders with the XBox One "features" (akin to a poorly implemented cash shop), all Sony had to do was say, "We are learning from Microsoft's mistakes and not forcing those restrictions on the PS4" (learning from the mistakes of games with poorly implemented cash shops and implementing their cash shop in a much better way), and bam, everyone flocked to the PS4.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?