Sort of true. Consoles will never keep up with the most powerful PC because they update in 5 to ten year cycle and not every few months. But most people game on low-mid tier PC which the new consoles are comparable in power to, Mid tier PC.
IF sony were to aim at the super computer tier. That already limits the possible playerbase substantially, right out of the gate. Which is why WoW did it like they did.
Gameplay and access to gameplay trump the shiny everytime.
You will be able to buy a pc with lot more Power for same cash as ps4 cost for less money. If you rather use the console then you have to buy very expensive mouse and keyboard that fits.Those mouse and keyboard you take with you from your old computer when you buy a new.
The ps4 cost 100 less than my I5, 8GB ram, 500GB PC. And the ps4 has GDDR5. My pc didn't come with that. I don't know how weak or powerful the PS4 processor is in comparison to the I5 though.
The GDDR5 will be in your GPU. In fact CPUs, especially Intel ones like your core i5 don't see huge gains with faster memory.
If the PS4 processor was running windows it would be considerably slower than your i5, since it is based on AMD Jaguar cores.
So it is never apples to apples, especially because consoles output lower resolutions as well and PC games are generally cheaper.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If the combat system in EQNext doesn’t require players to work together in order to develop interesting strategies and tactics, then I won’t be spending any money on this game.
I hope they slow the pace of combat down a little bit and make each individual monster relatively powerful when compared to each individual player. In an action game like Diablo, it makes sense for the players to be able to easily slaughter large amounts of monsters at one time. In such games, the player is a demigod and should have near godlike power. However, in a mmorpg like Everquest, it doesn’t make sense for each player to be so powerful. In Everquest each player is supposed to be just another adventurer, not a god’s chosen one. For many of us, roleplaying a more down to earth character is ultimately more interesting and makes more sense in a massively multiplayer game where thousands of other characters are also a part of the story.
The combat system should reflect this reality: most monsters should have commensurate power to most players.
That has nothing to do with action or non action gameplay.
In GW2 dungeon silver (elite) trash mobs will wipe a new player really quick and even open world vets (bronze) can be a challenge for new players and according to this site there is no team work required.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
Not really.
UO had a limit.
EQ1 had a limit. Mage classes had to mem 8 spells and could have 6 skills or so. Rogue even fewer, and most of the time could be macro'd to 4 buttons.
EQ2 & WoW most people use mods / macros / special keyboard & mouse hardware macros to make roll face layouts. If you were raiding and clicking more than 6 clicks you were a noob.
Nope.
Developers are giving us what we really want.
Most people are just morons and think more is more.
Originally posted by termsy I think they're trying to make combat similar to MOBA's, which I'm totally fine with.
Yea it is the skillshot kontra hotkey system.
Combat in MMOs have so far been limited by technology. Skills / abilities have gone from being turn based, to turn based where the turns is executed fast enough that it feels real time - to actual real time. But still as a extension of old pen and paper D&D combat style where you announce that you cast a fireball - then roll a dice to see if it hits.
Abilities in mmo`s have always lacked a manual quality. As compensation there have been a whole bunch of them.
There is no need for a dozen different skills if you are plenty involved with doing a single one right - fps games only have a single attack but because of that attacks many variables it can take a long time before a player have perfected it.
MMO games have so far denied their players a big gameplay potentiale by doing the majority of combat for them - the only thing players have to do is decide what ability to use. Obviously when that is the essence of the gameplay, you need a variety of abilities to chose from.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
If you think it's more casual please show us some videos of you speed running GW2 or Neverwinter. Too many of you have absolutely never even touched the new system in depth and just jump onto a pillar to shout "casual" when you yourself only played the game casually and wouldn't know what it's capable of being at the hardcore stage.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
If you think it's more casual please show us some videos of you speed running GW2 or Neverwinter. Too many of you have absolutely never even touched the new system in depth and just jump onto a pillar to shout "casual" when you yourself only played the game casually and wouldn't know what it's capable of being at the hardcore stage.
I explained in detail why the GW2 system is shallow in this link
"We can start off by looking at the character builds. The Trait system they have is excellent. I love it. The way I can tweak my character's builds for my own playstyle is among the best I've seen. Unfortunately, they still haven't been successful from breaking the Cookie Cutter build issue. Why? The action bar/combat/equipped weapon system destroys it. Turns the whole thing into a button spam.
Looking at my Thief, I enjoy both the full Berzerker build with Dagger/Dagger. And also the Bleed build with Dagger/Dagger.
This is where I noticed an issue. Looking at the 1st 3 abilities, Backstab, Heartseeker and Deathblosm. They exist for any thief using D/D regardless of build. Yet one of those abilities is for condition build thieves and the other 2 aren't So no matter which build I was using, I've got an already limited slot taken by an ability I won't use with that build.
I noticed the same thing using a scepter on my Necro. Depending on the build, I would prefer certain abilities and not use others since different abilities are geared for different builds. But they are tied to the weapon and are always there and they take up slots. So now you really have even fewer effective abilities.
This is a very bad way to design a game. And now it may be that SoE is following suit with EQN? "
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
If you think it's more casual please show us some videos of you speed running GW2 or Neverwinter. Too many of you have absolutely never even touched the new system in depth and just jump onto a pillar to shout "casual" when you yourself only played the game casually and wouldn't know what it's capable of being at the hardcore stage.
I explained in detail why the GW2 system is shallow in this link
"We can start off by looking at the character builds. The Trait system they have is excellent. I love it. The way I can tweak my character's builds for my own playstyle is among the best I've seen. Unfortunately, they still haven't been successful from breaking the Cookie Cutter build issue. Why? The action bar/combat/equipped weapon system destroys it. Turns the whole thing into a button spam.
Looking at my Thief, I enjoy both the full Berzerker build with Dagger/Dagger. And also the Bleed build with Dagger/Dagger.
This is where I noticed an issue. Looking at the 1st 3 abilities, Backstab, Heartseeker and Deathblosm. They exist for any thief using D/D regardless of build. Yet one of those abilities is for condition build thieves and the other 2 aren't So no matter which build I was using, I've got an already limited slot taken by an ability I won't use with that build.
I noticed the same thing using a scepter on my Necro. Depending on the build, I would prefer certain abilities and not use others since different abilities are geared for different builds. But they are tied to the weapon and are always there and they take up slots. So now you really have even fewer effective abilities.
This is a very bad way to design a game. And now it may be that SoE is following suit with EQN? "
I asked you to demonstrate your abilities not give an argument. Do so and I'll shut up, but otherwise you aren't proven anything either way.
I asked you to demonstrate your abilities not give an argument. Do so and I'll shut up, but otherwise you aren't proven anything either way.
LOL,
You are limited to 5 slots. But ANET set up the weapons so different abilities work with different builds. So you don't get all 5 for your given build. This is a fact. I don't need a video to prove this.
I asked you to demonstrate your abilities not give an argument. Do so and I'll shut up, but otherwise you aren't proven anything either way.
LOL,
You are limited to 5 slots. But ANET set up the weapons so different abilities work with different builds. So you don't get all 5 for your given build. This is a fact. I don't need a video to prove this.
Oy...Ok, so let me explain what I'm trying to say here.
You posted that by having less abilities the game becomes casualized. This, is in every possible definition of the word: WRONG. Have you ever played Diablo 2? Or a DoTA game? Less abilities doesn't equal casual in the slightest sense. Just because Guild Wars 2 (If you ever read my earlier posts you'd know what I think) fucked up their game doesn't speak for the rest of them. Neverwinter is not a casual game, it also has only a few abilities. EQN Will allow you a massive pool of abilities for the back five and as for the 5 class abIlities that's rendered pointless because you're supposed to collect as many classes as you can and learn most of them. That turns 5 abilities for each weapon multiplied by 40, multiplied by near infinite with the freedom of the character abilities. Hell just look at EQ1, only had 8 abilities in the days before they decided to wow-ify everything. It was one of the most hardcore mmo's in history. EVE doesn't have thousands of abilities either, probably THE hardest MMO in history.
WOW combat is not hard, you just keybind all the abilities to a few anyways and even if you don't all you have to do is read enough wiki's to memorize some min/maxer's build and just repeat it over and over. Being DPS is a snooze fest and while tanking had a high learning curve the raids still just came down to being coordinated enough.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
I think....no, no, no....let me restate; I know that having access to all your skills at any time is not only a detriment to gameplay since the majority of players will be playing whack-a-mole with cool downs but it makes the game harder to balance, and you remove any input from the player in how he wishes to control his characters progression.
Limited hot bars offer a deck building approach to game play, i.e. another meta-game the player must traverse. It also takes the role of balance from the Developer but puts the onus on the player to come up with "decks" to offset the "FOTM" builds. On top of this is makes UI customization so much more intuitive and gets people playing the game and looking at the game and not the UI.
I feel pity for people who think having every skill available is somehow good gameplay and more importantly I loathe people who think multi-hotbar support is somehow more skillful. I'll never play a game that features 6 rows of hot bars like WoW, Rift, EQ2, SWTOR. Games like Neverwinter, TSW and soon EQN will always be more fun, more intuitive and more skillful for the player then the former.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Originally posted by Ginaz The "trend" is most likely an attempt to make MMO's more console friendly or to attract more console players. Most likely its both.
No the trend is to make people enjoy the game and not the UI.
Only a few masochists have the ability to macro and even fewer have the ability to commit to muscle memory 48+ keybinds. There's a reason why perceived "overly easy classes" are played more, its because people can do more with less.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Originally posted by evilastro I love how people think that more skills makes it more strategic and complex. If its so engaging, why are these games the most multi-boxed / botted? Oh that's right, because it isn't complex or engaging at all. You can download programs that can play EQ, EQ2 and WoW for you, that's how simple the multi-hotbar 30+ skill systems are.
And you can also download a bot for games with action combat. GW 2 had a HUGE problem with it, and they had to drop the major ban stick on a fairly big amount of their player base.
No less easier or harder for any type of game. People have been and will continue to Bot in any and all games imaginable, including MMO's. SO try not play it off as an Action Combat MMO issue.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
What I don't "get" is, Why is there so much resistance to having more options? I have nothing against minimalism, especially if it contributes to efficiency. If you have figured out how to run with a single hot bar, that's awesome. Many players have been doing that in WoW and other games for years. But even still, why would you not want the option to add another? I don't get that. There is no logical reason why anyone should be against the idea that if you like 1 bar, run 1 bar, if you like 2 bars, run with 2 bars so long as the game is designed to be functional either way. In this instance, no one comes away feeling like they are getting screwed. But when players are told they are getting 1 bar and that's it. You now have 2 groups. Those that like and those that don't. But those that don't have no options. In the other scenario, everyone has the option to play how they want and some of you guys don't see that. It really is a bad decision to do it this way.
i dont get it either, welcome to the mmo world whatever the new trend is thats why they emulate..
these new elitest mmo gamers do nothing but attack hot bars even tho they know themselves spent years playing hot bar games.
we are saying we want options, you can have your 4 skill slots if you want, thats what we are saying,
Correct me if I'm mistaken, this is what I interpreted watching the short videos.
All of this means diddly if there isn't on the fly class changes.
The thing people are missing here about the limited action bar is:
Each weapon has skills tied to it and are interchangable on the fly.
It's a multi class system to the core and on the fly.
In GW2 you can select a different weapon and change actions , but you are still the same class.
In EQN:
Play one class= 8 skills and four of them change depending on weapon equipped.
Unlock two classes= 16 skills and four of them per class change depending on weapon equipped.
Unlock 10 classes= 80 skills and four of them per class change depending on weapon.
Unlock 40 classes= 320 skills and four of them per class change depending on weapon.
No you won't have a 320 skill hotbar. But you can cycle through hotbar builds everytime you change a weapon or class on the fly. Each hotbar build is capped at 8. Each class when using the same weapon as another class wields it and plays differently/
i think it would be amazing if it worked like final fantasy " lighting returns where she changes class and abilities on the fly during combat.. visually it looks amazing and adds alot of cool abilities..
on another note: im tired of all these comments arguing that you dont need to see more abilities then 4.. serioulsy? in A ROLE PLAYING GAME? having a bunch of cool powers is a staple of the genre.. its basically a MOBA then inside of a giant mmo world
personally its not about being less skilled or more skilled with more abilities, I JUST WANT TO SEE MY CHARACTER DO LOTS OF COOL STUFF! i wanna see diversity in my characters abilities, watch it kick ass using lots of different tecniques..
so if the wizard in the demo already showed 2 abilities.. and really only has 2 more.. it will get stale and boring, its like watching naruto doing the same moves over and over..
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
I'll tell you a story, just recently I came back to EQ2 to check on my character. Not sooner than I got back into the game I was bombarded with a skill reset and a default hotbar. Now instead of trying to relearn everything I forgot about the skill system, synergies and rotations, I rolled another class. I honestly believe that if it were someone else, they would have took a look at the mess on their plate and promptly logged out/uninstall.
Simple does not always mean preskool easy. In this day and age if you already know your game is going to be F2P, why on earth would you create a convoluted system of skills with marginal damage/heal increases and minute duration changes? It would serve nothing more than being a hurdle if players wanted to come back.
Think about it. It's no surprise to anyone except you it seems that most new B2P or F2P games are releasing with simplified UIs. Hell even WoW learned this trick and adapted to it with the release of it's latest expansion. Their game was getting a bit top heavy, so they shaved a little off the top. There is a reason gamers rarely pick up a RPG again after a long hiatus (especially if they've finished about 60% but had to drop it for some reason), but play games with more intuitive controls for years on end.
I want a mmo with characters that respond more through situational awareness and intuitive controls rather than this:
I mean yeah sure I COULD learn to operate that, but honestly there are more complicated things in my life I could be diverting more energy to.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
I'll tell you a story, just recently I came back to EQ2 to check on my character. Not sooner than I got back into the game I was bombarded with a skill reset and a default hotbar. Now instead of trying to relearn everything I forgot about the skill system, synergies and rotations, I rolled another class. I honestly believe that if it were someone else, they would have took a look at the mess on their plate and promptly logged out/uninstall.
Simple does not always mean preskool easy. In this day and age if you already know your game is going to be F2P, why on earth would you create a convoluted system of skills with marginal damage/heal increases and minute duration changes? It would serve nothing more than being a hurdle if players wanted to come back.
Think about it. It's no surprise to anyone except you it seems that most new B2P or F2P games are releasing with simplified UIs. Hell even WoW learned this trick and adapted to it with the release of it's latest expansion. Their game was getting a bit top heavy, so they shaved a little off the top. There is a reason gamers rarely pick up a RPG again after a long hiatus (especially if they've finished about 60% but had to drop it for some reason), but play games with more intuitive controls for years on end.
I want a mmo with characters that respond more through situational awareness and intuitive controls rather than this:
I mean yeah sure I COULD learn to operate that, but honestly there are more complicated things in my life I could be diverting more energy to.
Well the problem is that simple is good for learning and getting started, but bad for longevity. I agree that ergonomic UIs are the best for not scaring off the new player, but isn't there some way to have the complexity and choice there for players who want it? Let me duplicate abilities or have bad specials on my bar if I want it. Can't I put equipment on the bar if it's clickable?
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I asked you to demonstrate your abilities not give an argument. Do so and I'll shut up, but otherwise you aren't proven anything either way.
LOL,
You are limited to 5 slots. But ANET set up the weapons so different abilities work with different builds. So you don't get all 5 for your given build. This is a fact. I don't need a video to prove this.
Oy...Ok, so let me explain what I'm trying to say here.
You posted that by having less abilities the game becomes casualized. This, is in every possible definition of the word: WRONG. Have you ever played Diablo 2? Or a DoTA game? Less abilities doesn't equal casual in the slightest sense. Just because Guild Wars 2 (If you ever read my earlier posts you'd know what I think) fucked up their game doesn't speak for the rest of them. Neverwinter is not a casual game, it also has only a few abilities. EQN Will allow you a massive pool of abilities for the back five and as for the 5 class abIlities that's rendered pointless because you're supposed to collect as many classes as you can and learn most of them. That turns 5 abilities for each weapon multiplied by 40, multiplied by near infinite with the freedom of the character abilities. Hell just look at EQ1, only had 8 abilities in the days before they decided to wow-ify everything. It was one of the most hardcore mmo's in history. EVE doesn't have thousands of abilities either, probably THE hardest MMO in history.
WOW combat is not hard, you just keybind all the abilities to a few anyways and even if you don't all you have to do is read enough wiki's to memorize some min/maxer's build and just repeat it over and over. Being DPS is a snooze fest and while tanking had a high learning curve the raids still just came down to being coordinated enough.
Well, I'd be foolish to say that GW2 is the only way to do something like this. And yes, They did fuck their game up with the way they tied the abilities to weapons. I'm willing to wait and see what SoE delivers before making a final judgement. I was just like this before GW2 launched. I was very cynical. And while I maintain I was right on many issues, I was also wrong too. And ended up enjoying GW2 more than I thought. Just not enough to keep me logging in every day a year later.
So, can I see what SoE is doing? No, I can only may guestimations same as anyone else, but I'll admit it's tainted by my cynical nature. I am a doubting Thomas for sure. I have little to no faith that SoE can deliver what they said the way they said it. ANET made similar promises and fell short in most areas. I expect similar results here as well. Sure, the game will have a destroyable environment. But experience tells me the resulting final game play isn't going to be what it's currently cracking up to be.
And yeah, I really hope I am wrong. Because if I am, then it means I'll be playing a great game.
People just write macros so they end up turning those 30+ skills into 8 different buttons anyway. Go play some TSW and tell me how shallow limiting the number of abilities makes a game. I don't know why anyone would want half a screen of action bars anyway. More buttons does not mean deeper game play. If a combat system is good it doesn't need to be hot mess of abilities. Take Arkham Asylum/City for example - the combat is pretty basic, but it's also very satisfying because it's well designed.
They are obviously making the game more suitable to console play this is Sony we are talking about.. The large market shift from PC's to consoles means people have to rely on proprietary hardware and have to get upgrades and replacements thru them they make more money etc etc.. Hell the new consoles coming out are just low grade gaming PCs.. just copying apples business model.. As much as id love to see SoE go back to its EQ1 roots in a lot of their "vision" I don't count on it happening.
One of the kickstarter campaign games has more a shot at coming thru with a game thats more RPG and not some hand holding ride thru a pretty landscape.. Some of their ideas they introduced at Live have some merit but they are hiding all the key details that make a game a game just showing off pretty things... Dying for a game that is worth playing and that sucks the souls of people like EQ1 did... WoW lead the market away from that kind of immersion making it easy to do everything, was a lot of bad publicity by christian groups etc in the news back then...
Comments
The GDDR5 will be in your GPU. In fact CPUs, especially Intel ones like your core i5 don't see huge gains with faster memory.
If the PS4 processor was running windows it would be considerably slower than your i5, since it is based on AMD Jaguar cores.
So it is never apples to apples, especially because consoles output lower resolutions as well and PC games are generally cheaper.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
That has nothing to do with action or non action gameplay.
In GW2 dungeon silver (elite) trash mobs will wipe a new player really quick and even open world vets (bronze) can be a challenge for new players and according to this site there is no team work required.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Not really.
UO had a limit.
EQ1 had a limit. Mage classes had to mem 8 spells and could have 6 skills or so. Rogue even fewer, and most of the time could be macro'd to 4 buttons.
EQ2 & WoW most people use mods / macros / special keyboard & mouse hardware macros to make roll face layouts. If you were raiding and clicking more than 6 clicks you were a noob.
Nope.
Developers are giving us what we really want.
Most people are just morons and think more is more.
a yo ho ho
Yea it is the skillshot kontra hotkey system.
Combat in MMOs have so far been limited by technology. Skills / abilities have gone from being turn based, to turn based where the turns is executed fast enough that it feels real time - to actual real time. But still as a extension of old pen and paper D&D combat style where you announce that you cast a fireball - then roll a dice to see if it hits.
Abilities in mmo`s have always lacked a manual quality. As compensation there have been a whole bunch of them.
There is no need for a dozen different skills if you are plenty involved with doing a single one right - fps games only have a single attack but because of that attacks many variables it can take a long time before a player have perfected it.
MMO games have so far denied their players a big gameplay potentiale by doing the majority of combat for them - the only thing players have to do is decide what ability to use. Obviously when that is the essence of the gameplay, you need a variety of abilities to chose from.
If you think it's more casual please show us some videos of you speed running GW2 or Neverwinter. Too many of you have absolutely never even touched the new system in depth and just jump onto a pillar to shout "casual" when you yourself only played the game casually and wouldn't know what it's capable of being at the hardcore stage.
I explained in detail why the GW2 system is shallow in this link
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5891334
I'll post an excerpt below.
"We can start off by looking at the character builds. The Trait system they have is excellent. I love it. The way I can tweak my character's builds for my own playstyle is among the best I've seen. Unfortunately, they still haven't been successful from breaking the Cookie Cutter build issue. Why? The action bar/combat/equipped weapon system destroys it. Turns the whole thing into a button spam.
Looking at my Thief, I enjoy both the full Berzerker build with Dagger/Dagger. And also the Bleed build with Dagger/Dagger.
This is where I noticed an issue. Looking at the 1st 3 abilities, Backstab, Heartseeker and Deathblosm. They exist for any thief using D/D regardless of build. Yet one of those abilities is for condition build thieves and the other 2 aren't So no matter which build I was using, I've got an already limited slot taken by an ability I won't use with that build.
I noticed the same thing using a scepter on my Necro. Depending on the build, I would prefer certain abilities and not use others since different abilities are geared for different builds. But they are tied to the weapon and are always there and they take up slots. So now you really have even fewer effective abilities.
This is a very bad way to design a game. And now it may be that SoE is following suit with EQN? "
I asked you to demonstrate your abilities not give an argument. Do so and I'll shut up, but otherwise you aren't proven anything either way.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
LOL,
You are limited to 5 slots. But ANET set up the weapons so different abilities work with different builds. So you don't get all 5 for your given build. This is a fact. I don't need a video to prove this.
Oy...Ok, so let me explain what I'm trying to say here.
You posted that by having less abilities the game becomes casualized. This, is in every possible definition of the word: WRONG. Have you ever played Diablo 2? Or a DoTA game? Less abilities doesn't equal casual in the slightest sense. Just because Guild Wars 2 (If you ever read my earlier posts you'd know what I think) fucked up their game doesn't speak for the rest of them. Neverwinter is not a casual game, it also has only a few abilities. EQN Will allow you a massive pool of abilities for the back five and as for the 5 class abIlities that's rendered pointless because you're supposed to collect as many classes as you can and learn most of them. That turns 5 abilities for each weapon multiplied by 40, multiplied by near infinite with the freedom of the character abilities. Hell just look at EQ1, only had 8 abilities in the days before they decided to wow-ify everything. It was one of the most hardcore mmo's in history. EVE doesn't have thousands of abilities either, probably THE hardest MMO in history.
WOW combat is not hard, you just keybind all the abilities to a few anyways and even if you don't all you have to do is read enough wiki's to memorize some min/maxer's build and just repeat it over and over. Being DPS is a snooze fest and while tanking had a high learning curve the raids still just came down to being coordinated enough.
I think....no, no, no....let me restate; I know that having access to all your skills at any time is not only a detriment to gameplay since the majority of players will be playing whack-a-mole with cool downs but it makes the game harder to balance, and you remove any input from the player in how he wishes to control his characters progression.
Limited hot bars offer a deck building approach to game play, i.e. another meta-game the player must traverse. It also takes the role of balance from the Developer but puts the onus on the player to come up with "decks" to offset the "FOTM" builds. On top of this is makes UI customization so much more intuitive and gets people playing the game and looking at the game and not the UI.
I feel pity for people who think having every skill available is somehow good gameplay and more importantly I loathe people who think multi-hotbar support is somehow more skillful. I'll never play a game that features 6 rows of hot bars like WoW, Rift, EQ2, SWTOR. Games like Neverwinter, TSW and soon EQN will always be more fun, more intuitive and more skillful for the player then the former.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
No the trend is to make people enjoy the game and not the UI.
Only a few masochists have the ability to macro and even fewer have the ability to commit to muscle memory 48+ keybinds. There's a reason why perceived "overly easy classes" are played more, its because people can do more with less.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
No less easier or harder for any type of game. People have been and will continue to Bot in any and all games imaginable, including MMO's. SO try not play it off as an Action Combat MMO issue.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
i dont get it either, welcome to the mmo world whatever the new trend is thats why they emulate..
these new elitest mmo gamers do nothing but attack hot bars even tho they know themselves spent years playing hot bar games.
we are saying we want options, you can have your 4 skill slots if you want, thats what we are saying,
i think it would be amazing if it worked like final fantasy " lighting returns where she changes class and abilities on the fly during combat.. visually it looks amazing and adds alot of cool abilities..
on another note: im tired of all these comments arguing that you dont need to see more abilities then 4.. serioulsy? in A ROLE PLAYING GAME? having a bunch of cool powers is a staple of the genre.. its basically a MOBA then inside of a giant mmo world
personally its not about being less skilled or more skilled with more abilities, I JUST WANT TO SEE MY CHARACTER DO LOTS OF COOL STUFF! i wanna see diversity in my characters abilities, watch it kick ass using lots of different tecniques..
so if the wizard in the demo already showed 2 abilities.. and really only has 2 more.. it will get stale and boring, its like watching naruto doing the same moves over and over..
credibility, gone.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I'll tell you a story, just recently I came back to EQ2 to check on my character. Not sooner than I got back into the game I was bombarded with a skill reset and a default hotbar. Now instead of trying to relearn everything I forgot about the skill system, synergies and rotations, I rolled another class. I honestly believe that if it were someone else, they would have took a look at the mess on their plate and promptly logged out/uninstall.
Simple does not always mean preskool easy. In this day and age if you already know your game is going to be F2P, why on earth would you create a convoluted system of skills with marginal damage/heal increases and minute duration changes? It would serve nothing more than being a hurdle if players wanted to come back.
Think about it. It's no surprise to anyone except you it seems that most new B2P or F2P games are releasing with simplified UIs. Hell even WoW learned this trick and adapted to it with the release of it's latest expansion. Their game was getting a bit top heavy, so they shaved a little off the top. There is a reason gamers rarely pick up a RPG again after a long hiatus (especially if they've finished about 60% but had to drop it for some reason), but play games with more intuitive controls for years on end.
I want a mmo with characters that respond more through situational awareness and intuitive controls rather than this:
I mean yeah sure I COULD learn to operate that, but honestly there are more complicated things in my life I could be diverting more energy to.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Well the problem is that simple is good for learning and getting started, but bad for longevity. I agree that ergonomic UIs are the best for not scaring off the new player, but isn't there some way to have the complexity and choice there for players who want it? Let me duplicate abilities or have bad specials on my bar if I want it. Can't I put equipment on the bar if it's clickable?
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
It is the new "same old."
Well, I'd be foolish to say that GW2 is the only way to do something like this. And yes, They did fuck their game up with the way they tied the abilities to weapons. I'm willing to wait and see what SoE delivers before making a final judgement. I was just like this before GW2 launched. I was very cynical. And while I maintain I was right on many issues, I was also wrong too. And ended up enjoying GW2 more than I thought. Just not enough to keep me logging in every day a year later.
So, can I see what SoE is doing? No, I can only may guestimations same as anyone else, but I'll admit it's tainted by my cynical nature. I am a doubting Thomas for sure. I have little to no faith that SoE can deliver what they said the way they said it. ANET made similar promises and fell short in most areas. I expect similar results here as well. Sure, the game will have a destroyable environment. But experience tells me the resulting final game play isn't going to be what it's currently cracking up to be.
And yeah, I really hope I am wrong. Because if I am, then it means I'll be playing a great game.
obviously we mean 4 locked as weapon and 4 CLASS abilites, the only thing changable with the 40 classes
They are obviously making the game more suitable to console play this is Sony we are talking about.. The large market shift from PC's to consoles means people have to rely on proprietary hardware and have to get upgrades and replacements thru them they make more money etc etc.. Hell the new consoles coming out are just low grade gaming PCs.. just copying apples business model.. As much as id love to see SoE go back to its EQ1 roots in a lot of their "vision" I don't count on it happening.
One of the kickstarter campaign games has more a shot at coming thru with a game thats more RPG and not some hand holding ride thru a pretty landscape.. Some of their ideas they introduced at Live have some merit but they are hiding all the key details that make a game a game just showing off pretty things... Dying for a game that is worth playing and that sucks the souls of people like EQ1 did... WoW lead the market away from that kind of immersion making it easy to do everything, was a lot of bad publicity by christian groups etc in the news back then...