I definitely understand the points the OP is making but I personally mostly ask myself "Is there a reason why we should care that the Everquest players are upset?".
It seems to me a little bit more important that EQN could in fact be the first true next gen mmo.
clearly some people never streamed !did you ever tried ?you should ! 720p doesn't say squat about graphic quality especially at the bad bitrate soe used !but then no surprise here any that have followed soe streaming achievement knows this:for some reason soe cannot stream properly even if their life depended on it !it is the first time I see soe doing a stream that goes smooth with lot of viewer ! me I don't sweat it !we ll like the graphic !my main concert isn't there !my main concern is the lobbying industry !yes there is a lobbying industry in gaming ! why ?billion are at stake here ! so I bet ton of agency are hired by various game dev to lobby vs this game or vs that game etc !(ya some need to start dev new stuff !
Because everything we have heard and seen so far makes EQN sound like a GW2 spin off. We are promised its not and we will get info soon but to wait as long as we have and to get what we got falls short of many gamers expectations. Answers anyone?
Is essentially due in part that SOE over time has tried to pull new people into EQ1 by implementing a LOT of WoW's features into EQ thereby destroying what it used to be.
Many of us don't feel like the current EQ is EQ at all, and has been slowly NGE'd from its original presentation. This is why "Time Locked Progression" servers were so hellishly popular (seriously, 1982 player queues for Fippy Darkpaw in its first month). Unfortunately once those progression servers went well past Luclin, the turning point for many, the population dropped like a literal rock. Those servers are almost ghost towns now because they're into expansions everyone from the original EQ HATES with a passion.
So why the fuss over EQ:Next? Well, to put it bluntly, we wanted a fresh start with a fresh mindset but within the EQ franchise. Some hoped SOE was simply going to do an EQ1 rehash, but this time being a true sandbox game.
The fuss about the "Graphics", or Art-Style, is all about the fact that being "Stylized" means having low-poly models that are meant for "Mainstream" audiences. When they go the Mainstream route for graphics it is almost a certainty that they are going to dumb everything else down as well. Everquest has never been an "easy" franchise, that's why it isn't mainstream. Everquest fans are used to working for what they have, and not being able to buy power or simply walk over encounters that should be hard.
What they're doing with Everquest:Next is absolutely no different than the developers for WoW coming in and saying they're changing the Warcraft franchise up to be a 100% open-world pvp sandbox game with hardcore death penalties and ruthless political warfare with hardcore demanding graphics. Quite frankly, WoW fans would go ABSOLUTELY nuts in the most negative way possible, just like EQ:N fans. Why so many of you are shocked by this is a surprise in and of itself.
When someone comes in to ruin something that is special to you, you get upset. That's what this is to MANY Everquest fans, a complete disrespect of the Everquest franchise just to get more money. SOE is abandoning the fans that have supported their paychecks for more than 10years for a different audience.
Say what you want, but it does hurt. That's all, and I know for a fact that if someone came in to change up everything about something you care about you'd be upset, too.
That's all, nothing more nothing less. Please understand where we are coming from !
-Bear
Yeah well, join the club.
Now you know how UO players feel too...
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
um, hate to burst your bubbles, but i think its more non eq players whining than those that play.
i still have active eq and eq2 accounts, and everyone i know is looking forward to eqn, because lets face it, if you can enagege the public like you have for such a long time as eq and eq2 have, youll do ok with eqn.
we are all gamers here, we *get* being a fanboi, we *get* being dedicated players and spending years, if not decades, of our lives keeping up with our favorite franchises. outside of work and relationships (and sometimes within them), games are our lives. we think about them, wonder about them, read about them, study them. we haunt forums. we stream asap when a live feed goes up. we read late at night when we should be sleeping in bed. we game in our sleep sometimes. we will be gaming until the nursing home attendant pries the controller from our cold dead hands.
and yet ... the phrase "my whole family is heartbroken" over the graphics of a game are words we can't imagine saying. but Bear, this is something you have said. im sorry, but you have no perspective here at all. none.
aside from that your argument is some weird psychologically driven slippery slope in which because EQ1 has changed over the years somehow SOE owes you and those like you a brand spanking new copy of EQ1 instead of an evolution of the franchise as gaming technology, the hardware and coding, themselves change over time. and that is not even including the changes in expectations over time that the gaming community experiences.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Originally posted by BearKnight .Everquest has never been an "easy" franchise, that's why it isn't mainstream.
EQ2 is part of the everquest franchise and EQ2 is similar in ease to WOW
I'd say EQ2 is even easier than WoW. With the built in macro system you can literally just 1 button level your character to max level and then only use about 4 button regularly during raids; Single Target, AOE, Debuff, Self Buff/Heals (depending on class of course).. with the occasional situational skill slipping in here and there.
You do that and you will be a fucking useless player.
I was an EQ player, and I'm still tryign to figue out EQN. Destructible world is cool, advanced AI of a changing world is cool, and having layers of a world seems a great way to promote expansion. I would love these new features with a traditional MMO design. It would not be as riskly and would definitely sell at least moderately.
I have major problems with character growth seeming to be limited. I don't quite understand how much stronger you will get with horizontal progression, and this growth is a driving factor in the Genre. You want to find that ubber sword that makes content easier or such that you can show off to other players.
I have major problems with the class mixing techniques they are talking about. Warriors should not be teleporting around...it doesn't make sense within the Genre and is not immersive. This goes back beyond computer RPGs to Tolkien. There are characters that were defined not jack of all trade races/characters. The "role" in RPG is singular!
I am curious about the AI and combat fighting sytem. I believe there are ways to change the trinity, but I am concerned about the ability of every person to do every role. Having the ability to do it all is not immersive and doesn't promote player community. If it ends up being a zerg fest, they have gone against what they've said, and this failure will probably be amongst other massive failures.
I hate the idea of a cash shop. It is way for SOE to get the maximum amount of money each person is willing to spend effectively stratifying their market. It leads to unfairness and sucks for the community. Horizontal growth by paying money?
I believe like many others that the gaming decisions are adapted for the PS4. This is a fail in my opinion as the genre won't work on console. There is a need for way too much coordination and game controls, which will make the game seem inferrior on the console. People wishing to play will simply load up a game on their PC.
Intro video on Everquest saving people's lives and stuff was horrible. Let's be honest here. Addictions to RPGs have screwed up people at least 10x more than it has helped people. The topic of the affect on people's lives should have been left be.
We only have a few initial details and things can obviously be changed, but we have enough firm statements such that we can make opinions/conclusions at this point. Please give people jumping ship a break. When they show graphics, talk about no levels, no end game, no designated taks...they have given enough information for us to understand the overall design.
I believe there is a chance they pull off something very unique and create a different direction for the genre. However, I believe there is a reason based on the general human nature drive as to why this hasn't been done thus far.
I give the game a 10% chance of being a hit and 90% chance of being a flaming pile that provides much more forum entertainment than game experience.
I started EQ back in 1999... so I am a vet. That does NOT mean I have any more say than the new people to EQ at all, just saying where my mind set is from.
EQN is different. It is new. Yet, it is the same, and it is familiar.
It is not the original EQ and I NEVER EVER thought it would be. I assumed from the very beginning that the next EQ game would be vastly different.
I hate cartoony art style. A LOT. But... this art style allows them to do fascinating and FUN things. Sure, won't look as good as say, Elder Scrolls Online, but if the game play is better, SWEET!
Fun is #1. Really it is. I am GLAD EQN is going a different direction than previous version of EQ. I think it a brilliant idea!
You're upset because due to lack of any information and all the hints that something huge and revolutionary was coming, you let your imagination run wild and created, in your minds, your own personal perfect MMO.
Instead you got a preview of an MMO with bold new ideas and concepts that, groundbreaking though it may be, falls short of your unrealistic expectations.
You're in reality now. Learn to deal with not getting every imagined feature from your wet dream.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't know why some people are assuming that EQ players are upset. I am willing to give the devs a chance, and will try their game. I really love a lot of the ideas, and I played EQ for a very long time.
Same here.
EQ was my first MMO. I played it from launch through the LDoN expansion. I've played EQ2 off and on for years since it launched. I like the EQ world. I like Norrath. Hell, my user name here is the name of my very first main character in EQ1. I'm a fan.
I'm also not upset by anything I've seen so far with respect to EQN. Sure, the Kerran male had armor on that reminded me of WoW, but honestly? That's such a tiny thing in the grand scheme of things. The reveal at SOE Live was only a tech demo. There's no reason to have a cow at this point, when we don't even have any indication that the game's even in Alpha, much less anywhere close to a beta testing stage.
I'm up for seeing what the devs come up with and how they take EverQuest in a different direction. I'm interested in what they're saying and I want to see where things go from here. I'm not the same gamer or person I was in 1999. Why wouldn't I give EQN a chance now, almost 15 years later?
You're upset because due to lack of any information and all the hints that something huge and revolutionary was coming, you let your imagination run wild and created, in your minds, your own personal perfect MMO.
Instead you got a preview of an MMO with bold new ideas and concepts that, groundbreaking though it may be, falls short of your unrealistic expectations.
You're in reality now. Learn to deal with not getting every imagined feature from your wet dream.
Is essentially due in part that SOE over time has tried to pull new people into EQ1 by implementing a LOT of WoW's features into EQ thereby destroying what it used to be.
Many of us don't feel like the current EQ is EQ at all, and has been slowly NGE'd from its original presentation. This is why "Time Locked Progression" servers were so hellishly popular (seriously, 1982 player queues for Fippy Darkpaw in its first month). Unfortunately once those progression servers went well past Luclin, the turning point for many, the population dropped like a literal rock. Those servers are almost ghost towns now because they're into expansions everyone from the original EQ HATES with a passion.
So why the fuss over EQ:Next? Well, to put it bluntly, we wanted a fresh start with a fresh mindset but within the EQ franchise. Some hoped SOE was simply going to do an EQ1 rehash, but this time being a true sandbox game.
The fuss about the "Graphics", or Art-Style, is all about the fact that being "Stylized" means having low-poly models that are meant for "Mainstream" audiences. When they go the Mainstream route for graphics it is almost a certainty that they are going to dumb everything else down as well. Everquest has never been an "easy" franchise, that's why it isn't mainstream. Everquest fans are used to working for what they have, and not being able to buy power or simply walk over encounters that should be hard.
What they're doing with Everquest:Next is absolutely no different than the developers for WoW coming in and saying they're changing the Warcraft franchise up to be a 100% open-world pvp sandbox game with hardcore death penalties and ruthless political warfare with hardcore demanding graphics. Quite frankly, WoW fans would go ABSOLUTELY nuts in the most negative way possible, just like EQ:N fans. Why so many of you are shocked by this is a surprise in and of itself.
When someone comes in to ruin something that is special to you, you get upset. That's what this is to MANY Everquest fans, a complete disrespect of the Everquest franchise just to get more money. SOE is abandoning the fans that have supported their paychecks for more than 10years for a different audience.
Say what you want, but it does hurt. That's all, and I know for a fact that if someone came in to change up everything about something you care about you'd be upset, too.
That's all, nothing more nothing less. Please understand where we are coming from !
-Bear
it all boils down too one thing money.. vote with your feet and do not play it if it does not suit you when its out
Everyone can be anyone multiclass mechanic will likely help to ensure that everyone is the same. Also, an indication of no dedicated healing or tanking. Lots of people enjoy playing those roles.
They appear to have totally discarded all of their lore as well. Names central to the franchise, like Tunare and Cazic Thule appear to have been written out of the lore. Not really sure why Everquest is even in the name of the title.
Everyone can be anyone multiclass mechanic will likely help to ensure that everyone is the same. Also, an indication of no dedicated healing or tanking. Lots of people enjoy playing those roles.
They appear to have totally discarded all of their lore as well. Names central to the franchise, like Tunare and Cazic Thule appear to have been written out of the lore. Not really sure why Everquest is even in the name of the title.
Comments
I definitely understand the points the OP is making but I personally mostly ask myself "Is there a reason why we should care that the Everquest players are upset?".
It seems to me a little bit more important that EQN could in fact be the first true next gen mmo.
So you are basically telling us that you are blind and deaf or just making up wrong facts. Sad story! I almost cried.
Others just shoot the zombies which are chasing us. Whereas I try to talk to them.
If the brainless realized that it is dead, maybe, just maybe, it would lay itself down to rest...
Yeah well, join the club.
Now you know how UO players feel too...
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
um, hate to burst your bubbles, but i think its more non eq players whining than those that play.
i still have active eq and eq2 accounts, and everyone i know is looking forward to eqn, because lets face it, if you can enagege the public like you have for such a long time as eq and eq2 have, youll do ok with eqn.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
The reason why Everquest players are so upset...
we are all gamers here, we *get* being a fanboi, we *get* being dedicated players and spending years, if not decades, of our lives keeping up with our favorite franchises. outside of work and relationships (and sometimes within them), games are our lives. we think about them, wonder about them, read about them, study them. we haunt forums. we stream asap when a live feed goes up. we read late at night when we should be sleeping in bed. we game in our sleep sometimes. we will be gaming until the nursing home attendant pries the controller from our cold dead hands.
and yet ... the phrase "my whole family is heartbroken" over the graphics of a game are words we can't imagine saying. but Bear, this is something you have said. im sorry, but you have no perspective here at all. none.
aside from that your argument is some weird psychologically driven slippery slope in which because EQ1 has changed over the years somehow SOE owes you and those like you a brand spanking new copy of EQ1 instead of an evolution of the franchise as gaming technology, the hardware and coding, themselves change over time. and that is not even including the changes in expectations over time that the gaming community experiences.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
You do that and you will be a fucking useless player.
Companies often make 20 expansions for a game that everyone hates?
I was an EQ player, and I'm still tryign to figue out EQN. Destructible world is cool, advanced AI of a changing world is cool, and having layers of a world seems a great way to promote expansion. I would love these new features with a traditional MMO design. It would not be as riskly and would definitely sell at least moderately.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have major problems with character growth seeming to be limited. I don't quite understand how much stronger you will get with horizontal progression, and this growth is a driving factor in the Genre. You want to find that ubber sword that makes content easier or such that you can show off to other players.
I have major problems with the class mixing techniques they are talking about. Warriors should not be teleporting around...it doesn't make sense within the Genre and is not immersive. This goes back beyond computer RPGs to Tolkien. There are characters that were defined not jack of all trade races/characters. The "role" in RPG is singular!
I am curious about the AI and combat fighting sytem. I believe there are ways to change the trinity, but I am concerned about the ability of every person to do every role. Having the ability to do it all is not immersive and doesn't promote player community. If it ends up being a zerg fest, they have gone against what they've said, and this failure will probably be amongst other massive failures.
I hate the idea of a cash shop. It is way for SOE to get the maximum amount of money each person is willing to spend effectively stratifying their market. It leads to unfairness and sucks for the community. Horizontal growth by paying money?
I believe like many others that the gaming decisions are adapted for the PS4. This is a fail in my opinion as the genre won't work on console. There is a need for way too much coordination and game controls, which will make the game seem inferrior on the console. People wishing to play will simply load up a game on their PC.
Intro video on Everquest saving people's lives and stuff was horrible. Let's be honest here. Addictions to RPGs have screwed up people at least 10x more than it has helped people. The topic of the affect on people's lives should have been left be.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
We only have a few initial details and things can obviously be changed, but we have enough firm statements such that we can make opinions/conclusions at this point. Please give people jumping ship a break. When they show graphics, talk about no levels, no end game, no designated taks...they have given enough information for us to understand the overall design.
I believe there is a chance they pull off something very unique and create a different direction for the genre. However, I believe there is a reason based on the general human nature drive as to why this hasn't been done thus far.
I give the game a 10% chance of being a hit and 90% chance of being a flaming pile that provides much more forum entertainment than game experience.
Didn't read the thread, just the OP.
I started EQ back in 1999... so I am a vet. That does NOT mean I have any more say than the new people to EQ at all, just saying where my mind set is from.
EQN is different. It is new. Yet, it is the same, and it is familiar.
It is not the original EQ and I NEVER EVER thought it would be. I assumed from the very beginning that the next EQ game would be vastly different.
I hate cartoony art style. A LOT. But... this art style allows them to do fascinating and FUN things. Sure, won't look as good as say, Elder Scrolls Online, but if the game play is better, SWEET!
Fun is #1. Really it is. I am GLAD EQN is going a different direction than previous version of EQ. I think it a brilliant idea!
You're upset because due to lack of any information and all the hints that something huge and revolutionary was coming, you let your imagination run wild and created, in your minds, your own personal perfect MMO.
Instead you got a preview of an MMO with bold new ideas and concepts that, groundbreaking though it may be, falls short of your unrealistic expectations.
You're in reality now. Learn to deal with not getting every imagined feature from your wet dream.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Same here.
EQ was my first MMO. I played it from launch through the LDoN expansion. I've played EQ2 off and on for years since it launched. I like the EQ world. I like Norrath. Hell, my user name here is the name of my very first main character in EQ1. I'm a fan.
I'm also not upset by anything I've seen so far with respect to EQN. Sure, the Kerran male had armor on that reminded me of WoW, but honestly? That's such a tiny thing in the grand scheme of things. The reveal at SOE Live was only a tech demo. There's no reason to have a cow at this point, when we don't even have any indication that the game's even in Alpha, much less anywhere close to a beta testing stage.
I'm up for seeing what the devs come up with and how they take EverQuest in a different direction. I'm interested in what they're saying and I want to see where things go from here. I'm not the same gamer or person I was in 1999. Why wouldn't I give EQN a chance now, almost 15 years later?
it all boils down too one thing money.. vote with your feet and do not play it if it does not suit you when its out
Everyone can be anyone multiclass mechanic will likely help to ensure that everyone is the same. Also, an indication of no dedicated healing or tanking. Lots of people enjoy playing those roles.
They appear to have totally discarded all of their lore as well. Names central to the franchise, like Tunare and Cazic Thule appear to have been written out of the lore. Not really sure why Everquest is even in the name of the title.
They dun goofd!