I find it quite funny that some people took several titles (Rift, SWToR, etc.) that were P2P in the past, that were basically forced to go F2P because not enough people are willing to pay a fee for it and they are trying to tell us that it was a positive thing to do.
I don't think for a second if given a choice these companies would rather have a P2P payment model then a F2P.
Now these title's barely keep afloat with almost no content updates. Well they at least add stuff to the ingame shop, yay.
Why would blizzard make their game free to play, it doesn't make sense right now. Yes, they are losing subs but still if they are down to 2 million subs it's probably still more profitable to stay pay to play than going free to play. And besides, when the new expansion hits lots of people will return because that's what happens every time. Normally at the end of the expansion people stop playing because there is not much left to do, now with mist of pandaria most people stopped before the last patch so indeed they are losing lots of subs too early compared to other times.
I also want to respond on some people claiming p2p isn't gonna make a comeback.
The reason p2p games couldn't really exist is because of world of warcraft, everyone was subbed to that game because it was the best. And the new game better be damn near perfect or else noone will sub to 2 different games. But because world of warcraft is losing subs, it opens gates for new p2p games because those people won't mind subbing to a new game anymore due to them not playing WoW. So it's not a F2P revolution like many people claim, it's just other p2p games couldn't exist next to WoW. So stop being stupid.
Eventually will not happen as long as Blizzard rakes in 200 million dollars + revenue per quarter...
It will not even happen with 100 million dollars per quarter.
If it gets as "low" as 70 million dollars per quarter we can start to discuss and that's 7 million players (220 million dollars) divided by 3 ...
or around 2 million subscribers (1 M west - 1 M east).
That's a long long long way off.
Why ? Because there are ALREADY more than 2 million WOW players that will never give up any how.
--- China is a complete different thing though: they PAY by the minute: I really can't see HOW a game that is paid by the minute on a card can keep up with free to play thingies (even if they are garbage).
So IF you didn't quit WOW by this summer/automn: chances are HIGH you'll never gonna quit it...
Read the words: "At some point", carefully. The game is 9 years old or something and it still has lots of subs where they make a lot of money with, but eventually they will stop playing as well. But that won't mean it will happen in the near future, unless they completely fuck up the next expansion. And besides why risk it, they have a new mmo in the future that they are working on, why go free to play now. And risk not having a steady income.
Originally posted by Medown Read the words: "At some point", carefully. The game is 9 years old or something and it still has lots of subs where they make a lot of money with, but eventually they will stop playing as well. But that won't mean it will happen in the near future, unless they completely fuck up the next expansion. And besides why risk it, they have a new mmo in the future that they are working on, why go free to play now. And risk not having a steady income.
No one says they are doing it now.
Although they are probably putting in a cash shop soon. You will have a p2p game with a cash shop.
They already had a cash shop for like 1 or 2 years, I don't know if you noticed. Now they are putting it in game as well so it's easier to acces than having to buy it from the website store.
Have you ever really wondered how a game that people aren't willing to pay a subscription for... is suddenly making all kinds of money when it goes "free to play."
Why are people so eager to spend more than a subscription fee in a cash shop for the same game they didn't want to pay to play before...
Have you ever really wondered how a game that people aren't willing to pay a subscription for... is suddenly making all kinds of money when it goes "free to play."
Why are people so eager to spend more than a subscription fee in a cash shop for the same game they didn't want to pay to play before...
In world of tanks for example the average person spend about 7 dollars a month in the cash shop which is less than the sub fee, now the reason people aren't willing to pay for a subscription fee is because it basically forces you to play and the cash shop allows for payments whenever you want. But the reason most p2p games fail is because they are not on par with world of warcraft and people are not willing to sub to multiple games.
"For Blizzard it makes sense [to go free-to-play] at some point," Chilton told Polygon. "But a lot of the risk is in making that transition. You hear stories about developers going free-to-play and getting double the number of players, but you don't always know it works out that way and how long it stays that way."
"The fear may be warranted, but the switch to free-to-play has benefited a number of games. Revenue in Star Wars: The Old Republic doubled after the F2P switch, while DC Universe Online went up sevenfold."
The problem is companies always state things in multipliers and not in hard numbers which are the only thing that matters.
SWtOR doubled and DCU went up sevenfold. Ok, what were the base numbers? 7x $100 is $700 and the game is still failing. If you are far into the red and doubling your revenue brings you up to barely in the red or even just barely in the black then you haven't solved your problem and the game is still in trouble.
But people latch on to those statements because the sound so amazing, yet they actually say very little.
"For Blizzard it makes sense [to go free-to-play] at some point," Chilton told Polygon. "But a lot of the risk is in making that transition. You hear stories about developers going free-to-play and getting double the number of players, but you don't always know it works out that way and how long it stays that way."
"The fear may be warranted, but the switch to free-to-play has benefited a number of games. Revenue in Star Wars: The Old Republic doubled after the F2P switch, while DC Universe Online went up sevenfold."
The problem is companies always state things in multipliers and not in hard numbers which are the only thing that matters.
SWtOR doubled and DCU went up sevenfold. Ok, what were the base numbers? 7x $100 is $700 and the game is still failing. If you are far into the red and doubling your revenue brings you up to barely in the red or even just barely in the black then you haven't solved your problem and the game is still in trouble.
But people latch on to those statements because the sound so amazing, yet they actually say very little.
While not definitive we know they have stabilized in subs around 500,000 so they didn't really fall below that point. If we assume (and yes this is an assumption), that the month before it went f2p there were still 500,000 subs and that each sub pays $15 (again another assumption, used for simplicity) than it's revenue immediately before f2p was 7.5 million per month, with 2 million f2p players added on, a doubling of revenue would be 15 million per month.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I don't understand what you want to say with this video? There will always be people you don't necessary like in the workplace, especially if it is a rather big company.
It's things folks suspected yet didn't have proof that Blizzard would go to that level, until now (e.g., the Diablo III Facebook incident proves actual Blizzard paid employees will troll, and not even only on their property like forums).
Before that incident, all anyone had was suspicion. Now we have proof Blizzard employees troll their own players. Pretty sad when the "toxic" behavior comes not from the players, but from the accusers themselves. Blizzard would be better to hire some shrinks, since they're projecting their own behaviors (an environment has to support negative behaviors for it to exist, otherwise it would've been removed long ago. If the environment keeps on being a troll zone, despite wholesale cleaning [banning players permanently], it's reinfecting that environment from within -- the accusers are the troublemakers).
The first video shows the behavior. The second video shows folks were suspecting that behavior. Just took 2013 to get actual proof.
"For Blizzard it makes sense [to go free-to-play] at some point," Chilton told Polygon. "But a lot of the risk is in making that transition. You hear stories about developers going free-to-play and getting double the number of players, but you don't always know it works out that way and how long it stays that way."
"The fear may be warranted, but the switch to free-to-play has benefited a number of games. Revenue in Star Wars: The Old Republic doubled after the F2P switch, while DC Universe Online went up sevenfold."
The problem is companies always state things in multipliers and not in hard numbers which are the only thing that matters.
SWtOR doubled and DCU went up sevenfold. Ok, what were the base numbers? 7x $100 is $700 and the game is still failing. If you are far into the red and doubling your revenue brings you up to barely in the red or even just barely in the black then you haven't solved your problem and the game is still in trouble.
But people latch on to those statements because the sound so amazing, yet they actually say very little.
While not definitive we know they have stabilized in subs around 500,000 so they didn't really fall below that point. If we assume (and yes this is an assumption), that the month before it went f2p there were still 500,000 subs and that each sub pays $15 (again another assumption, used for simplicity) than it's revenue immediately before f2p was 7.5 million per month, with 2 million f2p players added on, a doubling of revenue would be 15 million per month.
That sounds reasonable.
More importantly, both of these games are successful enough to have more content developed for them.
I think as far back as 2 years ago I had a hunch this would be the right move for them. Really the only argument against it was that when you have a game making that much revenue it doesn't really make sense to rock the boat unnecessarily, so I think back then I mentioned WOW as the only game I wasn't 100% sure should be F2P. Everything else though...with a non-pay2win cash shop, free to play games are great. Especially if the purchases are entirely lateral purchases (playstyle flexibility, vanity) rather than vertical purchases (pay2win; things which make your character stronger.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
LOL^You don't seem to know much about anything dude. Read my post history.Secondly, WoW graphics ,etc are smooth, because they are severely outdated and most middle-class household now have a decent video card. Nothing you said is a boon for Blizzard, because it's true elsewhere.Who r u trying to kid, ...kid?
Work for Blizzard? Sure look like it.
I don't understand what you want to say with this video? There will always be people you don't necessary like in the workplace, especially if it is a rather big company.
He's saying he doesn't know how to read posts.. or understand words.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Originally posted by Axehilt I think as far back as 2 years ago I had a hunch this would be the right move for them. Really the only argument against it was that when you have a game making that much revenue it doesn't really make sense to rock the boat unnecessarily, so I think back then I mentioned WOW as the only game I wasn't 100% sure should be F2P. Everything else though...with a non-pay2win cash shop, free to play games are great. Especially if the purchases are entirely lateral purchases (playstyle flexibility, vanity) rather than vertical purchases (pay2win; things which make your character stronger.)
And when Blizz starts talking about going F2P publicly, their wow business may be approaching the tipping point. It is not going to happen right away.
But Blizz has a habit of prepping their audience with information LONG time before things happen.
You can already play WoW up to level 20 for 100% free, nariu... that should be way enough for someone who never sticks to the same game for a long time like you ;-)
The last time I had fun in game was a year or two ago doing the new undead areas as a 1-20 F2P rogue.
LOL^You don't seem to know much about anything dude. Read my post history.Secondly, WoW graphics ,etc are smooth, because they are severely outdated and most middle-class household now have a decent video card. Nothing you said is a boon for Blizzard, because it's true elsewhere.Who r u trying to kid, ...kid?
Work for Blizzard? Sure look like it.
I don't understand what you want to say with this video? There will always be people you don't necessary like in the workplace, especially if it is a rather big company.
He's saying he doesn't know how to read posts.. or understand words.
No, Blizzard trolls their forums and media sites. Those videos show an example of it on the WoW forums and at Facebook. This means they can be here, trolling on this thread or forum -- and no tinfoil hat is needed.
Afterall, the Blizzard All-Stars are cooking up their own "Conspiracy Craft" articles as a spin outlet, you know?
Originally posted by Axehilt I think as far back as 2 years ago I had a hunch this would be the right move for them. Really the only argument against it was that when you have a game making that much revenue it doesn't really make sense to rock the boat unnecessarily, so I think back then I mentioned WOW as the only game I wasn't 100% sure should be F2P. Everything else though...with a non-pay2win cash shop, free to play games are great. Especially if the purchases are entirely lateral purchases (playstyle flexibility, vanity) rather than vertical purchases (pay2win; things which make your character stronger.)
And when Blizz starts talking about going F2P publicly, their wow business may be approaching the tipping point. It is not going to happen right away.
But Blizz has a habit of prepping their audience with information LONG time before things happen.
And their doing this with sites like Gamebreaker. I caught on to the spin and turned up the sniffing, and it was a quick IP ban.
They're cooking up media spin starting with the movie as the main course (which may flop -- they know this) but it's a funnel for new players. They're rounding up the existing WoW player all-stars on their team (be it with Totalbiscuit; Swifty; Tankspot; Wowhead and MMO-C and beyond [watch for the "official fansite" logos now]) to promote the game and keep players hyped. Anyone not on this bandwagon are "toxic" and either banned or corralled.
It's about controlling the message with slick advertizing.
Blizzard at this stage is really paranoid as a company. They believe everyone on forums and sites who are negative about their product are working for other companies and/or folks trying to corner something (e.g., how classes are played; how the economy works). They can't see that players aren't all scumbags and control freaks, most just want to play a game that doesn't feel like a second job (it's a game, not work). They play the game and complain, because they invested a freaking fortune. Blizzard's arrogance shows that they know this, and treat the players like fools in the process (play a panda, you'll even talk like a gold farmer, too!).
Best thing players can do for WoW is to vote with their wallets like a voting block. Don't like the direction the game is going, show them your power. If all the paladins in the game did just that, Rets and their dismal DPS for two expansions would be fixed pretty quickly. Besides, there's other games now to get your gaming fix with, while Blizzard mulls if 50 million a month lost is worth it or not. Treat Blizzard like any other entertainment venue, don't have the stuff you like and won't provide it, shop for a different vendor who would. During 5.3 gamers took breaks to play LoL and EvE for example, different venues different enough to not be eating out of Blizzard's hand.
See, you don't copy WoW to bleed it players, you offer what WoW doesn't -- and can't incorporate into their game -- because they won't change their design philosophy. Big thing is comfort zones. Do the reverse, and watch the bleed unfold.
I really like TSWs subscription model and it would make sense for WoW in the inevitable (hopefully distant) future.
There is a real incentive to sub in TSW but the world is open to fr00bs who can experience the game just as much as the subscribers (as long as they buy the issues.)
Comments
I find it quite funny that some people took several titles (Rift, SWToR, etc.) that were P2P in the past, that were basically forced to go F2P because not enough people are willing to pay a fee for it and they are trying to tell us that it was a positive thing to do.
I don't think for a second if given a choice these companies would rather have a P2P payment model then a F2P.
Now these title's barely keep afloat with almost no content updates. Well they at least add stuff to the ingame shop, yay.
Why would blizzard make their game free to play, it doesn't make sense right now. Yes, they are losing subs but still if they are down to 2 million subs it's probably still more profitable to stay pay to play than going free to play. And besides, when the new expansion hits lots of people will return because that's what happens every time. Normally at the end of the expansion people stop playing because there is not much left to do, now with mist of pandaria most people stopped before the last patch so indeed they are losing lots of subs too early compared to other times.
I also want to respond on some people claiming p2p isn't gonna make a comeback.
The reason p2p games couldn't really exist is because of world of warcraft, everyone was subbed to that game because it was the best. And the new game better be damn near perfect or else noone will sub to 2 different games. But because world of warcraft is losing subs, it opens gates for new p2p games because those people won't mind subbing to a new game anymore due to them not playing WoW. So it's not a F2P revolution like many people claim, it's just other p2p games couldn't exist next to WoW. So stop being stupid.
The KEY word here is "eventually".
Eventually will not happen as long as Blizzard rakes in 200 million dollars + revenue per quarter...
It will not even happen with 100 million dollars per quarter.
If it gets as "low" as 70 million dollars per quarter we can start to discuss and that's 7 million players (220 million dollars) divided by 3 ...
or around 2 million subscribers (1 M west - 1 M east).
That's a long long long way off.
Why ? Because there are ALREADY more than 2 million WOW players that will never give up any how.
--- China is a complete different thing though: they PAY by the minute: I really can't see HOW a game that is paid by the minute on a card can keep up with free to play thingies (even if they are garbage).
So IF you didn't quit WOW by this summer/automn: chances are HIGH you'll never gonna quit it...
No one says they are doing it now.
Although they are probably putting in a cash shop soon. You will have a p2p game with a cash shop.
Have you ever really wondered how a game that people aren't willing to pay a subscription for... is suddenly making all kinds of money when it goes "free to play."
Why are people so eager to spend more than a subscription fee in a cash shop for the same game they didn't want to pay to play before...
In world of tanks for example the average person spend about 7 dollars a month in the cash shop which is less than the sub fee, now the reason people aren't willing to pay for a subscription fee is because it basically forces you to play and the cash shop allows for payments whenever you want. But the reason most p2p games fail is because they are not on par with world of warcraft and people are not willing to sub to multiple games.
The problem is companies always state things in multipliers and not in hard numbers which are the only thing that matters.
SWtOR doubled and DCU went up sevenfold. Ok, what were the base numbers? 7x $100 is $700 and the game is still failing. If you are far into the red and doubling your revenue brings you up to barely in the red or even just barely in the black then you haven't solved your problem and the game is still in trouble.
But people latch on to those statements because the sound so amazing, yet they actually say very little.
While not definitive we know they have stabilized in subs around 500,000 so they didn't really fall below that point. If we assume (and yes this is an assumption), that the month before it went f2p there were still 500,000 subs and that each sub pays $15 (again another assumption, used for simplicity) than it's revenue immediately before f2p was 7.5 million per month, with 2 million f2p players added on, a doubling of revenue would be 15 million per month.
It's things folks suspected yet didn't have proof that Blizzard would go to that level, until now (e.g., the Diablo III Facebook incident proves actual Blizzard paid employees will troll, and not even only on their property like forums).
Before that incident, all anyone had was suspicion. Now we have proof Blizzard employees troll their own players. Pretty sad when the "toxic" behavior comes not from the players, but from the accusers themselves. Blizzard would be better to hire some shrinks, since they're projecting their own behaviors (an environment has to support negative behaviors for it to exist, otherwise it would've been removed long ago. If the environment keeps on being a troll zone, despite wholesale cleaning [banning players permanently], it's reinfecting that environment from within -- the accusers are the troublemakers).
The first video shows the behavior. The second video shows folks were suspecting that behavior. Just took 2013 to get actual proof.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
That sounds reasonable.
More importantly, both of these games are successful enough to have more content developed for them.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
He's saying he doesn't know how to read posts.. or understand words.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
And when Blizz starts talking about going F2P publicly, their wow business may be approaching the tipping point. It is not going to happen right away.
But Blizz has a habit of prepping their audience with information LONG time before things happen.
The last time I had fun in game was a year or two ago doing the new undead areas as a 1-20 F2P rogue.No, Blizzard trolls their forums and media sites. Those videos show an example of it on the WoW forums and at Facebook. This means they can be here, trolling on this thread or forum -- and no tinfoil hat is needed.
Afterall, the Blizzard All-Stars are cooking up their own "Conspiracy Craft" articles as a spin outlet, you know?
Woohoo!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And their doing this with sites like Gamebreaker. I caught on to the spin and turned up the sniffing, and it was a quick IP ban.
They're cooking up media spin starting with the movie as the main course (which may flop -- they know this) but it's a funnel for new players. They're rounding up the existing WoW player all-stars on their team (be it with Totalbiscuit; Swifty; Tankspot; Wowhead and MMO-C and beyond [watch for the "official fansite" logos now]) to promote the game and keep players hyped. Anyone not on this bandwagon are "toxic" and either banned or corralled.
It's about controlling the message with slick advertizing.
Blizzard at this stage is really paranoid as a company. They believe everyone on forums and sites who are negative about their product are working for other companies and/or folks trying to corner something (e.g., how classes are played; how the economy works). They can't see that players aren't all scumbags and control freaks, most just want to play a game that doesn't feel like a second job (it's a game, not work). They play the game and complain, because they invested a freaking fortune. Blizzard's arrogance shows that they know this, and treat the players like fools in the process (play a panda, you'll even talk like a gold farmer, too!).
Best thing players can do for WoW is to vote with their wallets like a voting block. Don't like the direction the game is going, show them your power. If all the paladins in the game did just that, Rets and their dismal DPS for two expansions would be fixed pretty quickly. Besides, there's other games now to get your gaming fix with, while Blizzard mulls if 50 million a month lost is worth it or not. Treat Blizzard like any other entertainment venue, don't have the stuff you like and won't provide it, shop for a different vendor who would. During 5.3 gamers took breaks to play LoL and EvE for example, different venues different enough to not be eating out of Blizzard's hand.
See, you don't copy WoW to bleed it players, you offer what WoW doesn't -- and can't incorporate into their game -- because they won't change their design philosophy. Big thing is comfort zones. Do the reverse, and watch the bleed unfold.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
If WoW went F2P, I'd re-install WoW and play it again.
I've bought battle pets from the online shop before - I'd probably do it again.
The reason I uninstalled WoW is because I didn't play enough to make it worth paying the subscription.
So F2P would be a win-win situation, in my opinion.
There is a real incentive to sub in TSW but the world is open to fr00bs who can experience the game just as much as the subscribers (as long as they buy the issues.)