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Why can't they explain tiers in more detail?
Amaranthar
Member EpicPosts: 5,852
I can't think of any reason they can't give us some examples so we can figure out what this is. I'm beginning to smell a rat, and it's not a playable race. Too many secrets, too much dodging the specifics. I know some things aren't entirely decided yet, but I'm getting more and more suspicious. Especially when they drop the "instances" load on us.
And I don't like bound items any more than I like instances.
I want more answers, less PR games.
Once upon a time....
Comments
Because all of that is EQN stuff and they are busy pushing Landmark.
they only started talking about the game this month, they will likely space out the release of info between now and launch just like every other mmo has is or will do. It sucks but keeps us interested i suppose
Yep. Single player games never do this. MMOs have a common practice of spurting out tidbits of information over weeks, months, even years to generative interest and hype in their game.
I don't know... Maybe because IT'S STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT?!?
If you knew anything at all about software, you would know that they have ideas and plans and these may not be feasible with current tech/timelines/schedules. Besides, they probably still have technical issues to work through and if they told you today how they want something, it may change tomorrow then you would be crying because they couldn't deliver on what they told you. Stop freaking out because you don't know everything from day 1.
Yes, but they are very vague about every other aspect of the game too. Just think of the PvP.
I would like to know how horizontal or vertical the game actually is.
Bound items is a way to get rid of all the items that would otherwise pile up in the game. It could be replaces with item decay.
I also dislike bound items, they are a stupid mechanic...
to the best of my knowledge the only real reason to have them is to stop people from twinking alts...but in a game without levels who the hell cares if you twink your alt?
undead labs will be releasing a single player console game first
http://undeadlabs.com/
the dev team has been sprinkling tidbits of info for the last - 3 - years
http://www.brellrants.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18694&p=514541
EQ2 fan sites
I have a feeling that it is because of the backwards way Publicity works in a game like this.
Announce something difinitive and you have 100 forum trolls criticizing it.
Announce some vague details and you have people discuss a million possibilities raising hope.
The first seems like the worst of the two scenarios.
I have a 2 year degree in CNC programming. Does that count as "anything at all about software"?
This isn't that hard. First off, it's a concept that we're talking about here. The mechanics really isn't anything new. The only questions are what exactly the skills in question are, and what the numbers associated with them are. We don't need the numbers, and we can wait for the balance issues. But what's the concept? Tiers of more powerful effects? Tiers of completely different skills? Tiers of selected combos based on growing choices? I mean, it isn't hard to explain the general concept so that we know what they're talking about.
Once upon a time....
maybe they are ready to talk about it but are waiting to announce it alongside other mechanics - like class skills
I don't know the reasons why, only guessing
EQ2 fan sites
Yes, and even in games with levels they can go another route by adjusting the weapons to the levels. That's been done too. It is a stupid mechanic, and it raises more questions about their philosophy. Especially when they are talking up Crafting like it's something special when item repair and replacement is one of the great aspects of Sandbox economic design. I wonder if they get any of this, or if they are still locked into gamey design philosophies they've growth accustomed to over the years.
Once upon a time....
Thought they did okay explaining the concept. Classes, gear, skills, the world, mobs, etc will have multiple tiers. As you progress, encounters will require a higher tier of gear/skills to deal with more difficult content. Basically levels but not such a drastic difference between level 1 and 100. Not exactly a new concept, but hopefully they make it seem new and entertaining. EQN could be a year, two, or more off, they aren't going to spill all the beans now. Not sure what more exactly you are looking for, beyond precise details like you unlock 4 skills at Tier 1, 8 skills at Tier 2, etc. Which I doubt they will reveal anytime soon.
I have been using this game as an example way too much in the last couple of weeks but maybe it was just ahead of its time in some ways,
In Gemstone IV, you have certain metals that are tied in to the level system so that, for instance, you have to be level 5 to use mithril and level 20 to use the higher tier metals...otherwise you get a message along the lines of "the power of the weapon courses up your arm causing you to drop the vultite hand axe". I would much prefer something like this to Bind on Equip....it also allows for some really amazing weapons that have real stories behind them because of that games upgrade system, You can literally keep your favorite weapon for years because of the games enchanting system and customization...AND you can then give it to someone else if you so choose.
Now that game has no real crafting as we know it today, and no real market so perhaps it wouldn't be the best system for items in a sandbox if you wanted an Economy.
If I could make the "Equipment" system it would go like this, and I owe part of this to old MuD's and part to the new EQ customization system.
THE BEST WEAPON SYSTEM IN AN MMO THAT YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN
The Holy Grails of Weapons in my system
1) Famous weapons are famous and good forever,
Bilbo Baggins didn't throw sting in the river when he found tier 2 sting...no he kept that damn sword forever and gave it to Frodo, who also kept that sword. There should exist swords that you can keep and incorporate into your own story
2) Allow for a crafter driven, as opposed to resource driven, player economy.
No one cares who crafts what in WoW because honestly the best loot is in dungeons and even if you do buy something from someone you only ever need one and have no incentive to ever go back to that crafter...this needs to be fixed, all good crafting systems EVER have an item decay
So how do we mix these two into a working system? Weapons that have a "core" and a modular upgrade system.
a) The core of the weapon would represent the visual element for the most part, even if you changed out the pommel or lined the edge with silver, sting would still look more or less like sting. This core would be immune to weapon breaking mechanics, because it is a famous weapon after all....or at least far more immune than your average weapon.
b) The weapon however would be customized with upgrades and enchantments that would break over time, the exact mechanics for breakage could vary...I am in favor of death being a condition that leads to a loss of durability...but when it does break you would be left with a much weaker core weapon. All such upgrades must decay as they would be the driving force behind the crafter community. EQN already is doing something modular like this..probably..who the heck knows with SOE being so cagey with information. Changing modules would destroy them but should be doable so that you can adjust the weapon to be effective in whatever expansion is released.
c) Enchantments that scale to whatever level is current top tier, this is simply the means by which you determine the base damage of the weapon, this should not decay but should stay permanent so that your chosen mighty blades stays competitive with trash drops on mobs in any new expansions. This should also be a crafting proffesion or a subset of one.
d) Weapon attunement- This is almost NEVER done in modern MMO's because people go through weapons faster than I go through q-tips, reuse is good for the planet people, but if you made a system with a weapon that stayed with a character for more than one dungeon then you could put in an attunement system so that the more you kill with that particular weapon the more powerful it becomes/the better you are at using THAT greatsword. You wouldn't need Bind on Equip because simply handing it to someone wouldn't give them all the power you have with it, just the potential for that power.
e) Again no bind on equp or any of that stuff, if you invest serious gold coins into a weapon and at some point decide to give up your life of bashing people in the face with your mighty warhammer you should be able to sell or trade that weapon for a dagger or wand as you take up the magical arts, the attunement mechanic would stop people from doing this too willy-nilly...it would be a real choice.
You would probably still need other weapons from time to time, silver weapons for killing werewolves and what not and this would provide a means for crafters to make weapons in addition to modules, this would work best in a game that has very specific favored weapons against certain types of mobs...in EQN this could further limit quick class changes by not only causing you to have two weapons for each class but two weapons + any mob specific variety of those weapons.
Crafters in this system could also have more choice and more progression from making a) swords of certain materials for certain mobs b) swords with legendary potential c) Swords pimped out with all kinds of upgrades from other crafters and enchanters
anyway..as you can clearly see...that is the most awesome thing you have ever read.
I am praying this game isn't an instance fest, I was going to play FF14 but will not because im not subbing to a 5 player game.
I miss the old school MMO days and need a non-instanced AAA game
this..i think they dont have hardly anyhting done yet alone started...its just ideas right now
I despise crafting. I'd prefer if it is not mandatory.
The system could be adopted to a themepark MMO easy enough by allowing the upgrades to be found in dungeons or traded for dungeon tokens...I don't think that is the system they are going for in EQN though.
but really...the system wasn't made so one person crafts every type of add on but so that people have a reason to go to crafters not so that you craft it all yourself.
This was an idea that I and friends came up long ago.. Imagine an expert crafted weapon that levels on it's own.. and is NOT soulbound either.. The sword carries an identity of it's own.. in a way.. In WoW remember how your pets had to be leveled up? Use the same logic with special weapons.. The more you use it, the stronger the weapon becomes.. Even to the point that ONLY those weapons will become legendary..
If you at a time decided to sell or give the weapon to another character the legendary weapon takes a penalty.. That penalty can be re-earned by using it..
i think most people dont like the idea of "loosing their stuff" - aka full looting...but this is a nice inbetween solution which is also lore friendly - the super awesome rare weapons can be lost and only exist once...its basically like a "temporary power up" in an other game...and they should also come with heavy drawbacks...such as the sword that drizzts enemy wears (entreri?) that basically kills the wearer if his will is not strong enough (i might have some lore here wrong but you get the idea)...i also like the idea of magic weapons having a will of their own - such as malus darkblades sword which i think has a demon inside living that also speaks with him...
i know - eqn = weapon + character skills + gear = class - but im not a super fan of equipment heavy games and power creep....i think it only creates unecessary problems - i also think gear should only progress horizontally but not vertically (should i use the fast but light sword or the heavy durable but slow etc)...outside of the legendary weapons of course - but which should come at a drawback and be never bound to one character
You do realize that EQn is not built. That they have just finalized a few things and made a mock-up, so they could illustrate things to their fans. It was a PREVIEW of what EQn is going to be.
Landmark = Mindcraft and it will be out a full 2 years before EQn launches...
SOE doesn't know what these tiers will be, because they are 2 years away from finalizing such things.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I think people are expecting too much from a release announce. Development can change the direction of matters. Add to that the fact that the developers are doing the round table for specifics from the players - to make the game the players want.
In this development model, you can only state "this is our idea". Specific details will be fleshed out by the Round Table, and those things will be settled out as time goes on. It's at least a year or more from the release of this game; it's not like it is totally finished and ready to beta test. The devs were pretty clear about that.
Granted, this can still fall short in a number of areas, so I've got cautious optimism. The basic idea behind their development model was "we've been doing the same thing for too long", and I'm heartened by this statement. Now, we just have to see if they follow through.
But saying "it sucks" before even pitching in, smacks of pure hatred toward the game being developed without examination. Even the OP goes on the basis of "there's not much information", but there is. On EQNexus, there's a quote about the tiers (I believe it originated from Massively) - this was the second result when I googled "tiers + EQ Next":
On tiers: While trying to get a handle on the new concepts of EverQuest Next, some folks latched onto the term tiers as a substitute for levels. Georgeson, however, explained that the two are not just interchangeable terms for the same idea. Tier doesn't equate to power level -- it means capability. Higher tiers mean that players have a handle on how the game is played, from how to do combat to how to manipulate their skills to make various builds. It also means that they have a more robust selection of skills, giving them more flexibility to deal with situations. Unlocking tiers is a matter of demonstrating you know what's going on in the game. And moving up tiers is not going to be a laborious process: Georgeson stated, "Unlocking them is a matter of days and weeks, not years."
They have video of characters using their skills, or tier abilities, or whatever you want to call them. The idea that they can't share with us what they have going on, what they are building and how it works because they don't have it yet completely ignores this. And speaking of sharing, the "Round Table" so far is nothing new. It's just polls that may or may not mean a damn thing. Time will tell on that one. But "this is our idea" would be nice, and exactly what I'm asking for in this thread. Lacking that sharing, I would have to conclude that the Round Table is yet another "been there, done that" farce as much as "we're making something new".
In short, I'd like to actually see this "sharing".
Once upon a time....
They also had a robust class system they dumped because some playtesters found it confusing.