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Class training needs to be one of the first Guildheists
spankybus
Member UncommonPosts: 1,367
I am a GLD/CNJ and will be an eventual PLD. So many times, when I do PUGs, i find that DD's just start spamming their skills and turning the whole thing into a hot mess. They won't target my target and get pissy when they're told about hate management.
I would really like to see one of the first guildheists be class-specific training on what you need to do differently in a group versus solo.
When you solo, your job is simple///kill it...as quickly as humanly possible. So DPS just wacks away...because its literally a race...who runs out of HP first dies. But in a group setting, you need to pace your damage to keep the hate on the tank. You need to target the tanks target...you do need to adjust your playstyle.
But we seem to be getting a lot of players who just do not understand this concept. Either they're just FF fans who've never played an MMO with trinity before or are new to MMO's in general. I don't know. But if no one explains it to you, you will never learn.
I try to explain it, and i am polite about it...but i either get a favorable thank you and they instantly get better or they get pissed, rude, etc.
If SE wants the Duty Finder to cludge strangers together, then I really feel they should take steps to educate players on the workings of their classes in a group setting.
Am I the only one getting this a lot?
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Comments
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
What I've noticed in atleast the dungeons I've played is little communication or teamwork. I'm pretty sure people know their job roles but I usually get i get in with people who have done the instance multiple times so they rush through it. No one talks , no one marks targets, its just chaos.
Ya, that's why this thread was created, to teach people to stop being tards.
I play a pld and I mark every target but dps still manage to not attack them in order it is out of control out of all the games this one has the most people that don't have a clue and don't care to learn , but this is just my experience.
Select Tank...Push T.
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I think you have cause and effect backwards. Duty Finders cause players to be more anonymous. The effect is that players treat each other with less respect and often more vitriol.
And yet there are still plenty of nice people.
Please consider your thoughts and the laws of causation before making such a blanket statement about a group of individuals.
Marking order works better than assisting off tank. As a tank, if I have multiple targets up (not CC'd), I will throw parts of my threat building combo on a secondary target to prevent the healer from taking threat.
If things are marked, DPS should follow that order. If they can't even comprehend that.... well then, aren't they in for a treat when they take multiple dirt naps.
The Cause: I call this WoW-ification of the trinity. Blizzard turned every 5 man instance and heroic into AOE grinds to be conducted as quickly as possible and with as little communication and down time as they could achieve.
The Effect: Everyone expects every trinity game to be the same.
The Problem: SE didn't give its singular tank class (Another huge problem discussed in other threads) an AOE taunt. They have an AOE threat generation tool, but aggressive DPS on a single target will always pull agro away from the tank if the tank isn't on the same target. Further, the AOE threat tool MUST be spammed with every other attack, and so tanks are forced to use a single rotation on every AOE pull that eliminates 60% of their abilities from use in group play.
oh!! Well that's different, thx. I'll give a try.
Man thats horrible. I feel sorry for the tank. That would cause a big train wreck causing mobs to run all over the place
. I haven't noticed this yet, probably because i'm still in the low lvl's.
I liked/loved dungeons in ARR as a DPS, I actually had to pay attention and FF on targets and watch what the tank was doing and be responsible for my own health by not standing in bad stuff and not pulling aggro...
As a healer, it was pretty much the same whack a mole HP bar watching as any other MMO - but with only 2 abilities at low level, kind of got boring.
Tried tanking on both GLD and MRD, couldn't stand it. Was awful.
Feels like tanks do NOT have the tools they need to get the job done.
Maybe I just got unlucky with bad DPS or healers that spammed too much, and I tanked for many years in the days of vanilla and BC WoW when AoE tanking was cycling targets and paying attention to DPS targets etc.
Maybe also it is the PS3 interface - just can't switch targets and multitask easily with the controller setup.
Kind of ruined any idea I might have had about playing Paladin or Warrior in ARR.
Guess I'm sticking to CNJ / LNC for now... even though CNJ is pretty boring ATM.
Does White Mage get better?
I guess only thing I can compare it to is WoW.
On my Resto shaman, for single target healing I have my Earth Shield, a heal over time (Riptide), 3 single target heals - one fast casting & high mana, one balanced, one slow casting & mega output, and really 3 big tools for AoE healing, Chain Heal, Healing Tide Totem, and Healing Rain.
But then you have Unleash elements to increase the potency of next heal, Riptide causes different effects depending on the next 2 spells used, and Earthliving procs from weapon enhancement, as well as Ancestral form for big burst healing every 3 mins, and a bunch of shaman-specific passive effects to increase healing on my targets and increase maximum health etc. Oh and a Cleanse that removes magic debuffs.
I can't go all out or my mana is gone in a heartbeat. Have another cooldown for that (Mana Tide totem) and a couple of DPS cooldowns. Another on-cooldown that lets me cast while moving, a raid wide on-cooldown that increases party/raid haste (skill/spell speed) by a massive amount.
I mean, that is pretty deep. Pretty complex.
Bit of topic: But what you wrote is excactly what has made me a more solo player. I use to group ALLOT (pre-wow) then WoW introduced me to something completly new when going for PUG's and that is that the majority of players just didn't know how to play. Like you I tried explaining things, but when the rude/pissed or what ever additude overruled the actuall thank you's was when I sort of had enough of PUG's.
I aint guild material, never know when I have time to play and I am kind of old school in that because I feel I should contribute to the guild in some way.
I also fear that a large majority doesn't want to be educated by a game or even really learn how you could play differently then just letting the game lead you. Let me be clear of being lead by the game is fun for a person then so be it, but it would be nice if people who enter a MMORPG understand there is more to it then the gameplay mindset of single or multiplayer games.
cycling targets for aggro management is hard because of the long gcd. that said, you get a spammable aoe taunt, spammable single target pull/threat builder, strong single target ranged taunt with a longer cd, and two aggro building attacks that combo into each other. Thats at level 29, I really have not had problems holding aggro unless dps attacks simultaneously as me pulling or if they straight up start attacking before I even pull. I also mark cc and kill order on pulls of 4+ mobs. Its pretty fun to tank actually. Maybe not as flashy as WoW aoe pulls but its good on its own merits.
So I have to ask, and this is 100% curiosity. If you don't play MMOs with guilds and don't group. Why the fascination with MMOs?
I see your number of posts. There are a lot of great single player games out there, arguably, far more great single player games than MMOs right now.
What is it that draws you to MMOs if you don't like the other players in them?
Total off-topic: Please stop baiting. You're not really curious over something you already know the answer to. He didn't even mention any thing about not liking other players - he, in fact, mentioned he tries to (or used to) help people.
And you're recommending him single player games. Why?
Tag your targets. Your DPS and healers will love you.
No it won't fix the issue with DPS that opens up with big hitters on the pull but it does help with aggro control since you snap to tag 1 when the tank does it.
+1 this.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
It's not that I don't like others ingame or group with them. I still do that, but I am more the socializing crafter/trader. Speak to people to trade or even auction in today's MMO's. Still sometimes achieve a small well known as a crafter. And overall players make the world come alive. I don't need to /friend any person who is playing the same game. PEr haps just a few. I treath a MMORPG like a virtual world either scifi or fantasy.
I just wished there would be more interaction between players when grouped. I occasionaly still try to chat when grouped. To put it in numbers I would say 90% of Pug experiance couldn't even get a hi or hello. Don't even start with stratigic message's because before you might have spoken out your first sentence someone already got himself killed due to inpatients. But that 10% that do take their time, enjoy most of what a MMO or MMORPG has to offer, will want to have conversation or talk about stratigics so everyone know's his role and place will still remain my reason to find those likeminded gamers who like to go beyond just playing a game and immers themself into that virtual world.
There for I enjoy MMORPG's or even MMO's but perhaps not in the way you might.
I try to tag them, but I am a bit slow at it still. Getting faster,,but I will get impatient dips that just grabs something while I am setting it up.
now the healer has to heal two people instead of one...and soon they have aggro...
it just defends into he'll from there.
Also, a lo of people that I've spoken to did not know that the white bars in each party members icon represent the amount of hate they currently hold. When they finally see it, many of the, are like, "OMG! That's awesome, I didn't knowmwhat that was!"
I think an Ideal solo training quest for DPS players would be to have them team up with a lvl 50 NPC tank. They both fight a boss..tank holds hate and DPS does damage. The party icons would be explained, reticulate about the meter for hate. The monster would be much higher than the DPS...if he draws to much hate, he dies. Sle purpose of the quest is to explain the party tools and how to pace your DPS.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature