Originally posted by Castillle My classes are GLD, MRD, and CNJ and Ive been having instaqueue in dungeons all the time... I detest FATEs.
That is great for you, but there are a lot of players that face very long queue times. Even as a scholar sometimes it's 20-30 minutes. As a SMN or any DPS class it can go over an hour, depending on the dungeon.
Need a Heist or regular Primal as a DPS class, be ready for a wait.
Just thought I'd point it out since you've made the same mistake a few times now, they're not called "heists" They're guildHESTs. Although some GTA style heists would certainly liven things up a bit!
I think fates are good... just they should have more emphasis making leves more value-able and quests as well. I feel it gives another way to level but unfortunately its one thats far too valuable as it stands.
I personally don't like FATES because they are similar to Rift's Invasion system,just a whack of mobs all cluttered together that all seem to work off the same AI.It is also similar to FFXI's Campaign system but again not as in depth as Campaign,more of a quick system to aid leveling,again not something i adhere to.
I prefer to see content that has a purpose aside from xp,example would be like the Conquest system that has you aid you nation and gain control for nation,.A complete gear system centered around points gained in battle either in the Conquest or Campaign type system.FATE was as i said just a cheaper way to do it with less effort.They could have done a lot better job with the idea,as i like to always put it,add DEPTH to the system.
Would it better without?No but it would be better if depth was designed into the system.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Sora2810 Actually no. FATE grinding is amazing for leveling. Once you reach max, you'll be doing dungeons and such anyway. This does however, treat the game like *some* mmo's were treated before; The real game doesn't start till you reach max level.
While this is true, the main problem I see, and have experienced, is that once your max level, you tend to only do the max level content. But to get to max level, your gated by group-required lower level content.
Not many people re-queue for normal Garuda. Not many people re-queue for the Heists. If your trying to do those for the first time, you are either waiting a really long time in the queue, or you hopefully have some friends or FC mates that don't mind coming back specifically for the purpose of helping you out.
So all those people that aren't quite there yet, their queues are much, much longer - so because the FATEs are so efficient at leveling, it effectively takes away the other options of leveling because so few people do them as to make them impractical. Even if you choose not to do them, by virtue of everyone else doing them to the exclusion of other content, it affects your gameplay regardless.
Originally posted by Homitu Originally posted by RidelynnOriginally posted by CastillleMy classes are GLD, MRD, and CNJ and Ive been having instaqueue in dungeons all the time... I detest FATEs.
That is great for you, but there are a lot of players that face very long queue times. Even as a scholar sometimes it's 20-30 minutes. As a SMN or any DPS class it can go over an hour, depending on the dungeon.Need a Heist or regular Primal as a DPS class, be ready for a wait.Just thought I'd point it out since you've made the same mistake a few times now, they're not called "heists" They're guildHESTs. Although some GTA style heists would certainly liven things up a bit!
How about a FATE that transforms everyone into a mouse so you can fit in this tiny hole in the side of a giants cave. Then you have to steal cheese from the giant while avoiding his feet! I stand by my original shallow and bland for FATES. They could do a huge amount of things to make open world public quests much, much better. Guild Wars 2 dynamic events, Warhammers public quests, and Rifts in Rift all had more going on than FATES.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I think the sources of this overall problem are twofold: 1) lack of variety, and 2) the game is structured in such a way that players are intentionally seeking out and grinding FATES, rather than experience them organically as intended. This goes completely counter to the strength of event systems in MMOs.
FATE is simply one of the many features in ARR. It is not marketed nor intended to be a feature to hold on it's own. It is merely a part of the big picture, helping players level up in the world.
Players experience FATE's organically, it only becomes more common after leveling the first class(es) that FATE grinding is a sensible choice. Doing it on your first playthrough is just silly and goes against the strength of MMO's completely.
There is absolutely no reason to do it UNLESS the player wants to skip actually, you know, playing the MMO. Only MMO addicts do this and they should not be given any consideration here. The players that can still enjoy an MMORPG from start to finish are doing FATEs as they occur, organically, and as intended.
There is plenty of variety for how big of an aspect the feature is for the common player in the big picture.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
While this is true, the main problem I see, and have experienced, is that once your max level, you tend to only do the max level content. But to get to max level, your gated by group-required lower level content.
Not many people re-queue for normal Garuda. Not many people re-queue for the Heists. If your trying to do those for the first time, you are either waiting a really long time in the queue, or you hopefully have some friends or FC mates that don't mind coming back specifically for the purpose of helping you out.
So all those people that aren't quite there yet, their queues are much, much longer - so because the FATEs are so efficient at leveling, it effectively takes away the other options of leveling because so few people do them as to make them impractical. Even if you choose not to do them, by virtue of everyone else doing them to the exclusion of other content, it affects your gameplay regardless.
This is a good point. I haven't thought about it this way.
And about the whole organic thing... I did play the FATEs organically as my first class (and Tanking in FATEs is not a lot of fun... it just makes me wish I were a DPS), but as I'm leveling my second combat class, now, to get the Job... I felt pretty much forced to grind FATEs (I was however surprised by how playing a Healer in FATEs was less boring than playing a Tank).
So, yeah, the organic thing works for the first class, but it goes away for the second combat class (which is something pretty basic, required to get a Job). Right now it is seeming like a grinding exploit... and I'm forced to do it, because I simply do not have other missions to do around my current second class's level.
Originally posted by Sora2810 Actually no. FATE grinding is amazing for leveling. Once you reach max, you'll be doing dungeons and such anyway. This does however, treat the game like *some* mmo's were treated before; The real game doesn't start till you reach max level.
While this is true, the main problem I see, and have experienced, is that once your max level, you tend to only do the max level content. But to get to max level, your gated by group-required lower level content.
Not many people re-queue for normal Garuda. Not many people re-queue for the Heists. If your trying to do those for the first time, you are either waiting a really long time in the queue, or you hopefully have some friends or FC mates that don't mind coming back specifically for the purpose of helping you out.
So all those people that aren't quite there yet, their queues are much, much longer - so because the FATEs are so efficient at leveling, it effectively takes away the other options of leveling because so few people do them as to make them impractical. Even if you choose not to do them, by virtue of everyone else doing them to the exclusion of other content, it affects your gameplay regardless.
Originally posted by Sora2810 Actually no. FATE grinding is amazing for leveling. Once you reach max, you'll be doing dungeons and such anyway. This does however, treat the game like *some* mmo's were treated before; The real game doesn't start till you reach max level.
While this is true, the main problem I see, and have experienced, is that once your max level, you tend to only do the max level content. But to get to max level, your gated by group-required lower level content.
Not many people re-queue for normal Garuda. Not many people re-queue for the Heists. If your trying to do those for the first time, you are either waiting a really long time in the queue, or you hopefully have some friends or FC mates that don't mind coming back specifically for the purpose of helping you out.
So all those people that aren't quite there yet, their queues are much, much longer - so because the FATEs are so efficient at leveling, it effectively takes away the other options of leveling because so few people do them as to make them impractical. Even if you choose not to do them, by virtue of everyone else doing them to the exclusion of other content, it affects your gameplay regardless.
+1
Do you guys belong to a good FC? Doesn't sound like you do.
Honestly, I only do the fates if I run across them while questing. I have never once went out of my way to get to one. I think they're just fine. You don't have to do one at all if you don't want to. If someone wants to grind fates, and that is how they want to play, so be it. It doesn't effect me at all.
As for the OP saying that people may grind fates and not queue for dungeons, in bit seeing it. I've been playing and archer lately and I'm still getting in usually in under 10 mins.
Dungeons reward you with tons of pretty sweet loot. I've rarely had a run where I didn't win something. That being the case, it would seem really silly to me If the xp rewards were the same as other methods in dungeons on top of getting the better loot.
The problem is there are very few side quests to do. If they hit FATEs with the nerf hammer, then it will be a endless grind to level anything other than a main class.
Combat leves aren't worth the time (seriously, I have never seen a more skewed mechanic. Good for gathering/tradeskilling, useless for combat), Guildhests are worth doing exactly once. Dungeon grinding isn't horrible, but unless you are a healing or tanking class, a dungeon once every 30 mins to a hour is not going to get you to 50 very quickly.
FATEs are filling a rather giant content gap in the game atm.
How about a FATE that transforms everyone into a mouse so you can fit in this tiny hole in the side of a giants cave. Then you have to steal cheese from the giant while avoiding his feet! I stand by my original shallow and bland for FATES. They could do a huge amount of things to make open world public quests much, much better. Guild Wars 2 dynamic events, Warhammers public quests, and Rifts in Rift all had more going on than FATES.
Spot on. Rather than nerfing the XP in general, I'd much rather see them raise the bar on the creativity and challenge involved in completing FATEs. Making other sorts of content more desirable would help as well, along with rewarding high-level players for level syncing down and doing group content via Duty Finder.
So all those people that aren't quite there yet, their queues are much, much longer - so because the FATEs are so efficient at leveling, it effectively takes away the other options of leveling because so few people do them as to make them impractical. Even if you choose not to do them, by virtue of everyone else doing them to the exclusion of other content, it affects your gameplay regardless.
The colored sentence is so amazing, it needs to be paraphrased.
People that play these games take a feature that by itself is not very important or meaningful in the level design, notice that they can get a certain % of better exp by spamming said feature instead of playing the game as is designed, and thus do nothing but redo the content until they hit the cap. This activity is completely mundane and utterly boring, gives no enjoyment to the player and essentially makes them skip the rest of the game in the process. All this so that they don't have to play the game more than the people who do not do this.
This must be repeated: they don't want to play the game, so they only do something that is meant to be a side-activity thus making it a boring activity. Then they arrive where they want to be (level cap) to further spam the encounters that provide them with the best loot over and over again, ready to complain at any step on the way that does not directly result in getting closer at obtaining said loot. As the game was never designed to be, you know, skipped altogether there is not "enough" content for the intelligent individuals in question, so they get bored and quit.
Of course in some cases this is accompanied with a raging forum post stating how bad the game is for not caving in to such players. In a nutshell these players at first play the game so that they don't have to play the game, then either spam the content giving best loots, complaining if they have to do anything else or they state the game is boring and they quit.
Now I will claim that there is nothing, absolutely NOTHING as insane in the gaming sphere than what these people actually do. There is nothing funny about this however, these people are addicted to the process. They don't enjoy any of this yet they do it anyway.
It's amazing what kind of things gamers can do to themselves.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The problem is there are very few side quests to do. If they hit FATEs with the nerf hammer, then it will be a endless grind to level anything other than a main class.
Combat leves aren't worth the time (seriously, I have never seen a more skewed mechanic. Good for gathering/tradeskilling, useless for combat), Guildhests are worth doing exactly once. Dungeon grinding isn't horrible, but unless you are a healing or tanking class, a dungeon once every 30 mins to a hour is not going to get you to 50 very quickly.
FATEs are filling a rather giant content gap in the game atm.
I don't know about your personal experiences but I have been able to level two classes simultaneously for 30 levels now. One roadblock at lvl13-15 aside I have had no problems whatsoever keeping both of my classes leveled without any need for any sort of mindless grinding of monsters/FATEs.
As for when they make dungeon grinding more worthwhile doing FATEs while waiting for your turn to get to a dungeon is quite fine and much better than what happens now.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
All they need to do is increase the risk, IE: Make FATES scale with the number of people participating in them.
Adjust XP down, but add additional benefits like a chest or a random piece of gear, or short duration XP buff (to encourage mob grinding or doing dungeons)
If they really wanted to smack FATEs back a lot, cap the XP it can give to a set number, that is then divided among all participants.
Unless they in some way nerf FATEs, a certain sort of crowd will always grind them.
A lesser nerfing of them would be to remove all Gil rewards from them. Not just have them reward less as they currently seem to do, but none - then the FATE grind crowd would have to split it up with other content to earn back repair money.
But I think a more sane middle ground would be to cut FATE XP to 2/3rds of current and in half the moment it hits the scaling limit. Make them not as rewarding as other content, but still decent, and only unrewarding when a zerg shows up. I'd also remove company seals from fates - and put them into dungeons. Company seals from company levels and dungeons only would be my suggestion.
***
Scaling up difficulty doesn't work - so many players arrive that you simply cannot just scale something up. A boost to damage means anyone hit gets one shot. A boost to mob health means you're just whacking a mole longer. A boost to the number of mobs just means even more players show up...
- Look at world bosses in WoW. They hit soft enough that individual tanks can tank them - and to address 50+ players, have a massive AoE on a timer and adds. Then, they just scale up health. Result: its a weekly loot pinata. One free piece of loot per boss per week. Pointless "raid". But this is another way to nerf them: a cap on how many you can do per time block. Like Company leves have perhaps.
FATE Grinding isn't that bad, it just shouldn't be as good as it is. Also the level 45 class quest shouldn't give 4 pieces of blue gear immediately..
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Rather than nerfing fates, I'd like to see dungeon exp brought up a bit to where it's reasonably desirable to run them for exp.
Would also like to allow people to be able to queue solo for a dungeon, while grouped.
Then it'd be fates + dungeons for exp, rather than just fates. Not a catch all fix but it'd be easy to implement and would make the game more enjoyable for many.
Scaling up difficulty doesn't work - so many players arrive that you simply cannot just scale something up. A boost to damage means anyone hit gets one shot.
Does it have to be that extreme? The damage doesn't have to go up to OHK non-Tanks. It should go just enough scare non-Tanks. And this should only happen if there is indeed a good balance of roles among the players participating in the FATE. I don't think the details of this would be easy to design or easy to implement, but I do think it would be a good thing, because it would make you actually use some wits during FATEs. What annoys me more about FATEs isn't how 'necessary' they are, but how boring they are.
- Look at world bosses in WoW. They hit soft enough that individual tanks can tank them - and to address 50+ players, have a massive AoE on a timer and adds. Then, they just scale up health. Result: its a weekly loot pinata. One free piece of loot per boss per week. Pointless "raid". But this is another way to nerf them: a cap on how many you can do per time block. Like Company leves have perhaps.
Ye, tell me something about Doom Lord Kazzak how soft he hits in vanilla wow. After 3-5 minutes in rage mode he wipes everybody. I remember when somebody kite him into Stormwind. He one shooting everybody, GM have to remove him . Anyway it was fun.
Doesn't have to be rocket science or excessive... just have FATES be like the levequests... You only get xp for so many FATES a day on a particular CLASS before you don't get any benefit.
If counting FATEs is problematic, then have participation in a FATE put a diminishing return xp debuff on you, one that makes it okay to hit one or two FATEs in a row, but encourages you to take a break to let the debuff fall off. This also allows others to get in on the FATEs.
This way you can still grind FATES for other combat classes, but you don't overdo it. You could be near a lowbie zone and swap over to a lower level combat class to hit the FATE and then go back to what you were doing. You have that choice.
There should be gathering/crafting FATEs too. Something like a rush order at the <insert your craft trader here>'s guild or something. The current levequest mechanic restricting the amount you can get is kind of annoying. They really should've made it tied to the class, so each class could have it's own allotment of levequests to do per day. Again gives choice.
What folks fail to realize is that this is Final Fantasy universe, meaning they will add at least 20 more jobs to the game. How do you suppose you will level all those different jobs. Fates are fine if anything dungeon xp needs to be increased. I already unlocked mnk, bard, black mage, summoner bard is the only one I have at 50 at the moment. When I do decide to take other jobs to 50 how do you suppose I do this dungeons leves no thanks I will continue the fate grind, and yes im finished with the story.
Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Kajidourden I am now html guru, so i just brought you some copy pasta <p cfbody"=""> Originally posted by gamesrfunOriginally posted by sumdumguy1Originally posted by FoomerangWhy not just not do them? Because you don't like it, nobody should? Am I understanding you correctly?
Wow an honest to goodness simple solution to the problem, yet we continue to vent. Simple answer to the OP's issue. It is not a simple answer. A majority of players who buy an MMO play to LEVEL their character (until endgame). It is the prima facie carrot stick. Whether you are gaining skills, attributes, unlocking content, or whatever combination thereof, most MMOs celebrate level acquisition.FFXIV does not deviate from this model. THEREFORE, when you include a mechanism which, quite literally, exponentially expedites the process and by VIRTUE OF THIS passively discourage the rest of the game, you have a major problem.This so much.
Fail. You want to grind fates to 50? Here's what you miss:
Airship travel mount retainer pet battle system Grand company key class abilities access to jobs Levemetes
grind fates and end up with a completely gimped character. Grats?
Uh, you do realize that after you Fate grind to level 50 you can always go back and finish the main story line and your class quests right?
Also, most of the important quests for both are instanced and de-level you to the appropriate level so being level 50 wont matter.
Comments
Just thought I'd point it out since you've made the same mistake a few times now, they're not called "heists"
They're guildHESTs. Although some GTA style heists would certainly liven things up a bit!
I personally don't like FATES because they are similar to Rift's Invasion system,just a whack of mobs all cluttered together that all seem to work off the same AI.It is also similar to FFXI's Campaign system but again not as in depth as Campaign,more of a quick system to aid leveling,again not something i adhere to.
I prefer to see content that has a purpose aside from xp,example would be like the Conquest system that has you aid you nation and gain control for nation,.A complete gear system centered around points gained in battle either in the Conquest or Campaign type system.FATE was as i said just a cheaper way to do it with less effort.They could have done a lot better job with the idea,as i like to always put it,add DEPTH to the system.
Would it better without?No but it would be better if depth was designed into the system.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
While this is true, the main problem I see, and have experienced, is that once your max level, you tend to only do the max level content. But to get to max level, your gated by group-required lower level content.
Not many people re-queue for normal Garuda. Not many people re-queue for the Heists. If your trying to do those for the first time, you are either waiting a really long time in the queue, or you hopefully have some friends or FC mates that don't mind coming back specifically for the purpose of helping you out.
So all those people that aren't quite there yet, their queues are much, much longer - so because the FATEs are so efficient at leveling, it effectively takes away the other options of leveling because so few people do them as to make them impractical. Even if you choose not to do them, by virtue of everyone else doing them to the exclusion of other content, it affects your gameplay regardless.
Just thought I'd point it out since you've made the same mistake a few times now, they're not called "heists"
thanks for the correction.
Things they could do to make FATES better:
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/FATE is simply one of the many features in ARR. It is not marketed nor intended to be a feature to hold on it's own. It is merely a part of the big picture, helping players level up in the world.
Players experience FATE's organically, it only becomes more common after leveling the first class(es) that FATE grinding is a sensible choice. Doing it on your first playthrough is just silly and goes against the strength of MMO's completely.
There is absolutely no reason to do it UNLESS the player wants to skip actually, you know, playing the MMO. Only MMO addicts do this and they should not be given any consideration here. The players that can still enjoy an MMORPG from start to finish are doing FATEs as they occur, organically, and as intended.
There is plenty of variety for how big of an aspect the feature is for the common player in the big picture.
This is a good point. I haven't thought about it this way.
And about the whole organic thing... I did play the FATEs organically as my first class (and Tanking in FATEs is not a lot of fun... it just makes me wish I were a DPS), but as I'm leveling my second combat class, now, to get the Job... I felt pretty much forced to grind FATEs (I was however surprised by how playing a Healer in FATEs was less boring than playing a Tank).
So, yeah, the organic thing works for the first class, but it goes away for the second combat class (which is something pretty basic, required to get a Job). Right now it is seeming like a grinding exploit... and I'm forced to do it, because I simply do not have other missions to do around my current second class's level.
+1
Do you guys belong to a good FC? Doesn't sound like you do.
As for the OP saying that people may grind fates and not queue for dungeons, in bit seeing it. I've been playing and archer lately and I'm still getting in usually in under 10 mins.
Dungeons reward you with tons of pretty sweet loot. I've rarely had a run where I didn't win something. That being the case, it would seem really silly to me If the xp rewards were the same as other methods in dungeons on top of getting the better loot.
The problem is there are very few side quests to do. If they hit FATEs with the nerf hammer, then it will be a endless grind to level anything other than a main class.
Combat leves aren't worth the time (seriously, I have never seen a more skewed mechanic. Good for gathering/tradeskilling, useless for combat), Guildhests are worth doing exactly once. Dungeon grinding isn't horrible, but unless you are a healing or tanking class, a dungeon once every 30 mins to a hour is not going to get you to 50 very quickly.
FATEs are filling a rather giant content gap in the game atm.
Spot on. Rather than nerfing the XP in general, I'd much rather see them raise the bar on the creativity and challenge involved in completing FATEs. Making other sorts of content more desirable would help as well, along with rewarding high-level players for level syncing down and doing group content via Duty Finder.
The colored sentence is so amazing, it needs to be paraphrased.
People that play these games take a feature that by itself is not very important or meaningful in the level design, notice that they can get a certain % of better exp by spamming said feature instead of playing the game as is designed, and thus do nothing but redo the content until they hit the cap. This activity is completely mundane and utterly boring, gives no enjoyment to the player and essentially makes them skip the rest of the game in the process. All this so that they don't have to play the game more than the people who do not do this.
This must be repeated: they don't want to play the game, so they only do something that is meant to be a side-activity thus making it a boring activity. Then they arrive where they want to be (level cap) to further spam the encounters that provide them with the best loot over and over again, ready to complain at any step on the way that does not directly result in getting closer at obtaining said loot. As the game was never designed to be, you know, skipped altogether there is not "enough" content for the intelligent individuals in question, so they get bored and quit.
Of course in some cases this is accompanied with a raging forum post stating how bad the game is for not caving in to such players. In a nutshell these players at first play the game so that they don't have to play the game, then either spam the content giving best loots, complaining if they have to do anything else or they state the game is boring and they quit.
Now I will claim that there is nothing, absolutely NOTHING as insane in the gaming sphere than what these people actually do. There is nothing funny about this however, these people are addicted to the process. They don't enjoy any of this yet they do it anyway.
It's amazing what kind of things gamers can do to themselves.
I don't know about your personal experiences but I have been able to level two classes simultaneously for 30 levels now. One roadblock at lvl13-15 aside I have had no problems whatsoever keeping both of my classes leveled without any need for any sort of mindless grinding of monsters/FATEs.
As for when they make dungeon grinding more worthwhile doing FATEs while waiting for your turn to get to a dungeon is quite fine and much better than what happens now.
If they really wanted to smack FATEs back a lot, cap the XP it can give to a set number, that is then divided among all participants.
Unless they in some way nerf FATEs, a certain sort of crowd will always grind them.
A lesser nerfing of them would be to remove all Gil rewards from them. Not just have them reward less as they currently seem to do, but none - then the FATE grind crowd would have to split it up with other content to earn back repair money.
But I think a more sane middle ground would be to cut FATE XP to 2/3rds of current and in half the moment it hits the scaling limit. Make them not as rewarding as other content, but still decent, and only unrewarding when a zerg shows up. I'd also remove company seals from fates - and put them into dungeons. Company seals from company levels and dungeons only would be my suggestion.
***
Scaling up difficulty doesn't work - so many players arrive that you simply cannot just scale something up. A boost to damage means anyone hit gets one shot. A boost to mob health means you're just whacking a mole longer. A boost to the number of mobs just means even more players show up...
- Look at world bosses in WoW. They hit soft enough that individual tanks can tank them - and to address 50+ players, have a massive AoE on a timer and adds. Then, they just scale up health. Result: its a weekly loot pinata. One free piece of loot per boss per week. Pointless "raid". But this is another way to nerf them: a cap on how many you can do per time block. Like Company leves have perhaps.
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Rather than nerfing fates, I'd like to see dungeon exp brought up a bit to where it's reasonably desirable to run them for exp.
Would also like to allow people to be able to queue solo for a dungeon, while grouped.
Then it'd be fates + dungeons for exp, rather than just fates. Not a catch all fix but it'd be easy to implement and would make the game more enjoyable for many.
I don't. Wanna recruit me? :P I'm not Hardcore, but I Tank and Heal. I play on Exodus.
Does it have to be that extreme? The damage doesn't have to go up to OHK non-Tanks. It should go just enough scare non-Tanks. And this should only happen if there is indeed a good balance of roles among the players participating in the FATE. I don't think the details of this would be easy to design or easy to implement, but I do think it would be a good thing, because it would make you actually use some wits during FATEs. What annoys me more about FATEs isn't how 'necessary' they are, but how boring they are.
Doesn't have to be rocket science or excessive... just have FATES be like the levequests... You only get xp for so many FATES a day on a particular CLASS before you don't get any benefit.
If counting FATEs is problematic, then have participation in a FATE put a diminishing return xp debuff on you, one that makes it okay to hit one or two FATEs in a row, but encourages you to take a break to let the debuff fall off. This also allows others to get in on the FATEs.
This way you can still grind FATES for other combat classes, but you don't overdo it. You could be near a lowbie zone and swap over to a lower level combat class to hit the FATE and then go back to what you were doing. You have that choice.
There should be gathering/crafting FATEs too. Something like a rush order at the <insert your craft trader here>'s guild or something. The current levequest mechanic restricting the amount you can get is kind of annoying. They really should've made it tied to the class, so each class could have it's own allotment of levequests to do per day. Again gives choice.
It is not a simple answer. A majority of players who buy an MMO play to LEVEL their character (until endgame). It is the prima facie carrot stick. Whether you are gaining skills, attributes, unlocking content, or whatever combination thereof, most MMOs celebrate level acquisition. FFXIV does not deviate from this model. THEREFORE, when you include a mechanism which, quite literally, exponentially expedites the process and by VIRTUE OF THIS passively discourage the rest of the game, you have a major problem.
This so much.
Fail. You want to grind fates to 50? Here's what you miss:
Airship travel
mount
retainer
pet battle system
Grand company
key class abilities
access to jobs
Levemetes
grind fates and end up with a completely gimped character. Grats?
Uh, you do realize that after you Fate grind to level 50 you can always go back and finish the main story line and your class quests right?
Also, most of the important quests for both are instanced and de-level you to the appropriate level so being level 50 wont matter.
So, yeah, not completely gimped at all.