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Would many studios be better off focusing heavily on the PVPer?
Distopia
Member EpicPosts: 21,183
I think they would. For one simple reason, the PVP crowd would be easier to please, the game would have far more longevity at a smaller budget/timescale. Focusing on the PVE crowd first and foremost is too costly, it's almost impossible to keep up with, it's just not feasible in most cases for long-term development. Small balancing patches with lite content would be a godsend to most of the PVP oriented players out there, who are used to being snubbed for long periods of time when it comes to focus from development teams. PVErs decry these types of updates ( a dungeon at most in a patch) as not being enough. Most PVP types would be happy to see a new PVP feature here and there, which would require far less work from a development team than a major content update.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with PVE oriented games, I enjoy them, they should still be made. I just feel many companies would have a much easier job ahead of them by going the PVP direction with AAA titles.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I'm a PvP'er, however my back ground is FPS PvP. I've thought about this also.
The PvP market within the MMO scene seems to small. FPS, RTS and DOTA's rule when it comes to PvP, and it's free.
Take a look at Firefall, a game marketed as a PvP MMO, now they have decided to put PvP on the backburner and concentrate on PvE. Is that due to how they implemented the PvP or people just prefer to PvE.
Maybe the problem is trying to balance a number of different character builds. Balance is key to PvP.
yes and no. They just should not focus on evryone. that is the most fatal flaw in mmo's today making them all half assed.
a PvE only mmo can certainly be made. you say content is an issue i say it is not. it depends how fast you can clear that content. if you can be level capped in 2 weeks then yes you will never be able to satisfy the crowd. they need to slow down leveling. and by slow down i mean lengthen it to atleast half a year for a normal person. being a 2-3 months for a fast leveler? then you can keep up with the crowd. and make awesome new content without your crowd getting bored.
focusiing heavely on PvP might be boring asswell. i know i dont play FPS games all day long. why would a pvp focused mmo be any diffrent. But yes they would have a easyer job. And if they would design content to be harder and leveling to be waaay slower then PvE devs would have a easier job asswell.
In my experience, the PvP crowd is the loudest and whiniest part of the MMORPG population, along with raiders. Those two categories are those who complain the most.
So I don't know where that "the PVP crowd would be easier to please" statement comes from. In my book it's definitely not true. PvPers are always bitching that every class except their own is overpowered, that terrain favors the enemy, that "I can't lose I'm skilled so it must be the game which is flawed"... you got the idea.
My computer is better than yours.
As pointed out in one of the earliest posts, the main problem with a PvP-heavy MMO is that there are TONS of other options for PvP in genres that specialize in it, such as RTS, FPS, vehicle-vs-vehicle, Fighting Games... hell, Mario Party games, even. If I may add, these other genres aren't cluttered by silly imbalance issues like Pay-to-Win, gear differences, and other MMO features like vertical progression for the most part. So why play (and more importantly from the company's perspective, PAY for) a game in a genre for PvP when there are other options for PvP that will generally be better?
The Hardcore MMO PVPer might look down on someone for enjoying Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, but at least that Mario lover doesn't have to worry having his level 5 Peach getting ganked by 10 level 80 Bowsers in the open field, or being matched up in one-vs-one arena against a lv100 Wario. Likewise, the only "imbalance" a Team Fortress 2 player has to worry about are the feelings of envy created by seeing the awesomeness of his opponents' hats.
Although that level 5 Peach will never get to experience the "joy" of joining a guild so she can be protected by 20 level 30 Marios (before a level 150 Waluigi and his friends come along and kills all of them), but I'm pretty sure most players wouldn't mind in the long run. Some will want it, and thus niche titles like Eve will always have their niche player base, but in the end, it's just that. Niche. A niche that's so small that Eve and the few other PvP MMOs (if there are any others) probably has 90% of the potential market share of it already, leaving little profit left for any new PvP MMO to snap up.
IT comes from what a PVP game needs for long term appeal compared to a PVE game. The play-style in general is players=content, all they need is a sense of ownership and something to fight for or defend. Everything else is just icing on the cake in a PVP environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But in todays standards WoW is a sandbox PvP game where players can PvP anywhere.
Just attack some guard for example and flag is hot or walk in to opposite factions area and such.
Compare WoW to for example GW2 where its not possible and GW2 is free WoWkiller and still WoW beats it in numbers of players.
There is a line somewhere where too much is too much and pop culture players cant live without it either.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I think the problem with something like firefall is an appeal issue over anything else. The same could be said about games like Global Agenda, Darkfall, MO etc.. etc.. They all have a generic level of quality. They all also tried catering to other play-styles too much. Darkfall requires a PVE grind as an example. WAR was very popular early on for it's handling of PVP leveling. I think DF would fair better with such an addition.
As for the PVP base of players it would need, I don't think that would be a problem, just look at PS2, that game got popular fast. It's not like the FPS genre is brimming with choices today, I think BF and COD can use a little more competition to be quite honest.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
thats how aion orignally was. it took like 2 months to get level cap. but so many people that it was to hard so they left the game and it failed. i personally loved that game. these days its super easy to level since they are trying to cater to more people.
EVE would disagree with that
Yes they would!
Look at the MMOs that are still around, EVE and DAOC stand out big time, and they are heavy into PvP, in fact those games are centered on PvP
Look at all the success FPS are having, and they are heavy in PvP
The other thing about PvPers, they tend to stick with one or two games they like, while PvEers tend to hop around as they blow through the content so fast
I personally think levels and vertical progression make for poor MMORPG PvP and the claim that people don't want PvP has always been overstated. Every time a MMORPG decided to go hardcore PvP the servers were flood. But in a MMORPG setting it has to be designed from the start not slapped on. If not it just become pointless ganking and killing dominated which is not what most players want all the time. Not to mention with the vertical progression you get people ganking others who stand no chance as well.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
In my eyes, the problem is that too many games (even in this day and age) are still trying to put PvP-seeking and PvP-avoiding players on the same map.
I don't think MMORPGs should focus on PvP or PvE. I don't feel like PvP in any MMORPG is ever all that good. It's always insanely unfair because of levels, and even if the devs make PvP a level playing ground, I don't feel like it lives up to "pure" PvP games.
And the same goes for PvE. Combat in MMORPGs is usually never really exciting and just devolves into doing rotations over and over. I've played plenty of games that have way better PvE (combat) experiences than MMORPGs
...If I wanted great PvP, I would play a game like DOTA 2. If I wanted great PvE, I would play something like Skyrim or Dragon's Dogma.
So I don't play MMORPGs for PvE or PvP. I play them for the shared world. The shared world is the only real unique feature of MMORPGs, and I feel that it is deserving of the most focus.
What interests me about MMORPGs is being able to exist in and interact with this shared world with tons of other players. I would love to see a game that really embraced this concept and added features to support a dynamic, player-influenced shared world...but alas, most just focus on trying to add this huge laundry list of features, and winding up being mediocre at all of them.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I agree, in a way, I don't think progression or levels would be a problem as long as your progress comes through PVP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From what I heard, people said the game was a grind and that is why they left. Hardcore and casual alike.
Blaming the failure on casuals is typical of the hardcore player.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Only ones worth mentioning are Guild Wars 1 and World of Warcraft - both of which did moderately on the e-sport scene. Scenarios in Warhammer Online were also good but Mythic is clearly clueless when balance is concerned. And what I hear from DaoC, they have never quite had a grasp on it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
But what if you could play those wiht other players.
Which rules would be better,rules where other player is even less human than NPC ,he cant attack you and you cant attack him,only buff and heal and help.
Or.
Rules where you and him can do whatever they want?
I remember this pretty fantastic game which is like cheap mans Dungeon Master but 2 players can play it.
Players can help each other or attack each other by accident or on purpose and this tiny feature makes it extremely fun even tho its single player mode is pretty terrible compared to Dungeon Master.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Yeah I can see GW1. While I never really enjoyed it's PvP, I know that a lot of people did, and you could get into it from day 1 which was nice.
With WoW though...yeah it had some eSports success, but you had to grind A LOT to even participate in the PvP. Which, IMO, is kind of crappy for a PvP game. I know that's the way it works, but it's one of the reasons why I think MMORPGs and competitive PvP usually just don't mix very well.
And even with GW1, the competitive PvP is basically completely apart from the normal game...so while it was probably decent, it's still kind of "tacked on."
Personally, I would like PvP in an MMORPG to involve and enhance the shared world. Battles for territory, shadowy wars between merchant councils to control the market, that's cool for an MMORPG. But competitive PvP? Other games just do it better IMO.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
"The PvP crowd would be easier to please"
In what world would that be? The biggest complainers I've ever seen have been PvPers who complain that everything is done wrong and any time they die they claim the game has an imbalance that must be fixed.
PvPers are the toughest people to please in the MMO world, by miles.
I'm honestly more in favor of open world PvP, I feel like it has the most potential to enhance the shared world aspect of an MMORPG.
BUT it has to be implemented in a way that doesn't turn the world into a PvP bedlam (Darkfall). it can't really be the focus of the game, and this is a difficult road to tread for developers because once you allow open PvP, you open the door for tons of griefing.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yes, I see all the PvP'ers just busting down the doors...oh wait, no I don't. In fact even with the games centered around PvP that are out there I don't see any of them thriving, I wonder why that is...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!