The reason I say both is because it's ridiculous to ask people to always play with a group. Some people only like to play with a specific group of friends, they don't want to deal with meeting new people for whatever reason, if an MMO has content that is basically group only, that person has nothing they can do in the game while waiting for their friends to show up.
Worse yet, I remember playing FFXI... I think that was the MMO one.. and at first I was able to solo while waiting for friends to show up or a group to pick me up. It was slow and grindy as hell but I could do it. When I finally got out of the newbie area and out to a higher level one I found that I basically had to either, go back to grinding the newbie area, or hope to god that a group would pick me up so I could keep progressing my character and just plain kill things.
On the other hand you have games like The Old Republic which don't really do a good job with group content, which is silly since it's such an important part of an MMO. For the most part the game feels like a solo game. Short of fighting a world boss or going to one of the instances, there's really no reason for anyone to group up. Things were made even more awkward when they tried to combine story and group play. They didn't really do it in such a way where one person was the designated leader/mouth of the group and everyone else could chime in and add to the conversation. Nope! We got a dice roll system that was really weird and sometimes had one person talking all the time while others just sat there having to go with whatever that one lucky character wanted to say, even if their own character would disagree violently.
You just can't have an MMO without soloable content or group content. You need both. EVE is great in that regard. A player can do a lot on their own. They can do even more in a group, or still themselves if they want to pay for and operate multiple accounts at once.
Why is it so egregious for at least a few MMOs to have soloable endgame progression?
[mod edit]
Truth is MMOs have to force grouping to justify having a MMO genre, otherwise MMOs are solo RPGs or FPS games.
RIFT did something to help though, which I hope other games would pick up on is the ease of grouping; mechanics designed for open public groups; sensible looting (no more ninjaing and loot griefing); random spawn time world bosses; and can turn off PvP (so we don't have the junk WoW has facing world bosses).
Improvements would be scaling the randomized invasions, so small or large groups can get similar challenges (flaw with RIFT's world bosses were the size didn't scale); epic loot can drop, so running them a few times a night has a purpose; pacing small encounters hourly or so, larger invasions (excursions) at 4+ hour intervals; easier means to travel between them.
Soloers would group if there was a reason to group, and on their time table. It's not wasting 3hrs in chat looking for a group, though.
FPS games are also multiplayer, I've grouped up with 4/8 players in those games in PvP
How big are these forced groups to justify the first M in MMO? 200? Is that massive enough?
Well, multiplayer is what FPS games used as a term before the MMO concept came around. And FPS games aren't MMOs (unless they're MMOFPS games with persistent worlds, not maps). BF3, for example, is a FPS not a MMO, as it's a map game.
Forced grouping is anytime when to complete an objective you can't do it yourself, there's no other alternative but to get a group to finish. In a FPS game 1 person could by running out and controlling flags/points. In many MMORPGs you won't be able to even enter the instance without a premade group to prevent that.
Games like DDO there is an alternative to forced grouping by hiring NPC henchmen, while maintaining the MMO concept and preserving needing a group to accomplish objectives (that henchmen concept is pretty neat, as you chose your party makeup. I like defensive game play so pick more defensive toons; were another could pick more DPS centeric groups; or others healbot groups).
What I don't get is why many people feel that MMORPG's should cater to their tastes. Everyone has a different idea of what their ideal MMO should be and yet most of the MMORPG's try to cater to completely opposite playstyles destroying them both.
Group Centric MMORPG needs group mechanics that keep gameplay interesting. Hard enemies that take skill and coordination to defeat in a timely manner. It kind of needs Tank and spank holy trinity, and an expansive crafting system.
Solo Centric: More flexible in the type of gameplay. Action RPG type gameplay does well. A good RvR model with gear/skill progression is needed.
Mixing the 2 does neither model any good yet companies keep mashing them together and throwing it at the wall... Unless you copy WoW which IMO has the perfect balance between group content and questing you will ultimately end up with garbage.
Originally posted by Edwardslin In my option, this issue has sort of look like MMO game VS Console game. I don't know whether this is a exact metaphor. But in fact, the war between MMO gamers and Console fans has never stopped. If you refer to solo play, why do you play in a Massive-Multiplayer Online game and not just play solo in PS 4 or Xbox? As I said, the real score of MMO must be Group play all the time, not Solo play.
You know what they call an MMO that's group-only? Out of business. There is no MMORPG in existence that is group-only and the overwhelming majority of players are solo-only or primarily solo players.
What planet do you people live on, that you think most MMO players want to group?
I'm going to throw something out there. The old BASF commercial. I would change their tag line/slogan from: "We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy, better." to: "Grouping does not make an MMORPG. Grouping makes an MMORPG better."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I have come to the conclusion that mmos are no longer for people who enjoy multiplayer games. They are becoming more and more like singleplayer games with an online lobby making the entire open world and all of its zones just a big waste of resources.
Ironically, lobby games are becoming more like mmos so perhaps in a not too distance future there will be one that focuses on pve and player interdependancy.
a mmorpg which does not cater to group play fails, the point of playing MMO.....rpg is to play with other people not play a single player rpg which anyone can do. they should have options to solo, but group play needs to be primary focus. A shame games nowadays seem to forget this.
We've seen an abundance of these threads crop up recently, and they're all discussing the same thing. Please use this thread instead of making a new one.
Thank you.
If those were the only 2 long embattled play styles in your avg mmo finding a happy medium would be challenge enough. But nooooo devs are iron men(and women) more headaches the better. PVE raiders, casuals, groupers, soloers. voichatters, shut the hell upers, questers, sandboxers, chatters, TUNRN IT OFFers -pvp, openW-looting, OpenW-nolooting, battlegrounders, RVR'rs, gankers duelers, Lone Wolfers.......
My advice? pick complimentary ones, target them, and design around core play styles. everyone would be a hell of a lot happier and overtime wouldn't be as needed.
For all these solo play lovers some dev needs to make a new type of game we can call it a MMOSPG... IE you log online the game can only be accessed online. Then make it where you run around with other player but cant actually talk to them or group with them or anything. Maybe a world chat channel and thats it. All the content would be soloable. Even the raids. That way the casual players could get everything they want and still be in the mix with other people.
The "team only" advocates really don't have a leg to stand on here. The "team only" MMO model died way back in 2004 with the launch of World of Warcraft, which to this day is still the single-most successful MMO on the market, and it's very solo-friendly.
Remember when Dungeons & Dragons Online and Vanguard tried to bring back the "team only" model? They failed miserably in part because people don't like to be forced into grouping.
The idea that MMO players like to talk to each other is a curious assertion. If they like to talk to each other so much, why then in games like Guild Wars 2 do they so often choose not to do it? Because in actuality they don't like to talk to each other, only doing so when forced into it (usually to find a group in a game lacking group-finding tools). If they truly liked to talk to each other, they would be doing it in GW2 because hey, they like to do it, right? Except the fact is, they don't. So they don't. MMO players as a whole are pretty much introverts if you think about it. Finding your socializing through MMOs is a very introvert kind of thing to do. If they did a scientific study on it, I'd not be surprised to find the majority of MMO players are introverts IRL, with extroverts making up a relatively small proportion of players (I'd expect the true extrovert to seek out more face-to-face means of socializing).
The truth of MMORPG grouping is this: instead of forcing people into it, make teaming convenient, fun & rewarding. Do that and people will team voluntarily.
Originally posted by yeomanandtanks
I REALLY like World of Tanks !! Mostly like T62A., and IS-7 and E50M
Add me as a friend ,lets TALK ~~
Now there's a community that can benefit from a bit more silence lol. World of Tankers are a very...special bunch.
Basically I'm tired of playing with people who act like they are 8 yr old school boys,girls who act like cyber sluts to gain items in games,people who think they know it all,bullies,liars,ego trippers,big mouths,people who like to talktrash cause their parents aren't leaning over their shoulders....
I am tired of reading game guides and finding out I have to help others ,join guilds, play with friends, join others,blah blah blah... After playing many many games online,I am weary of it. I want to play games solo if at all possible. If I don't find that certain game,I'll be done with games online forever. It's really gotten old.
Too much solo content makes the game a failure and defeats the purpose of having an online game. Too much group content causes issues for those that want to play online games, but don't have the time or desire to dedicate that time to it.
Games have been hit and miss. Either they are too solo friendly (GW2), or require you to group to advance the plot (GW2, SWTOR, FFXIV). WoW got it right...well, mostly right. You CAN level to cap without ever grouping, but then you're forced to group if you want better gear.
Its one of the fundamental flaws about gear based games; you're either a solo player in crafted purples or quest blues, or your're a group player in dungeon purples. I'm generally the latter, but for once I'd like to see a game with advancement other than grind dungeon tokens until you're blue in the face..
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Too much solo content makes the game a failure and defeats the purpose of having an online game. Too much group content causes issues for those that want to play online games, but don't have the time or desire to dedicate that time to it.
Games have been hit and miss. Either they are too solo friendly (GW2), or require you to group to advance the plot (GW2, SWTOR, FFXIV). WoW got it right...well, mostly right. You CAN level to cap without ever grouping, but then you're forced to group if you want better gear.
Its one of the fundamental flaws about gear based games; you're either a solo player in crafted purples or quest blues, or your're a group player in dungeon purples. I'm generally the latter, but for once I'd like to see a game with advancement other than grind dungeon tokens until you're blue in the face..
I don't agree with your first sentence but do agree that there needs to be a balance between type of content.
As for your last sentence I'm thinking you are a WoW player.
Not every game does "purples and blues" and not every game has you grind tokens.
I bring it up a lot but "Lineage 2" had a great balance of solo and group content. it was gear based but you could purchase gear from anyone. Bosses dropped gear that was also crafted.
It was just so difficult to craft that some clans would raid in order to gear up their members. But the whole point of the game was not to grid tokens, it was to gain power for pvp.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Too much solo content makes the game a failure and defeats the purpose of having an online game. Too much group content causes issues for those that want to play online games, but don't have the time or desire to dedicate that time to it.
Games have been hit and miss. Either they are too solo friendly (GW2), or require you to group to advance the plot (GW2, SWTOR, FFXIV). WoW got it right...well, mostly right. You CAN level to cap without ever grouping, but then you're forced to group if you want better gear.
Its one of the fundamental flaws about gear based games; you're either a solo player in crafted purples or quest blues, or your're a group player in dungeon purples. I'm generally the latter, but for once I'd like to see a game with advancement other than grind dungeon tokens until you're blue in the face..
I don't agree with your first sentence but do agree that there needs to be a balance between type of content.
As for your last sentence I'm thinking you are a WoW player.
Not every game does "purples and blues" and not every game has you grind tokens.
I bring it up a lot but "Lineage 2" had a great balance of solo and group content. it was gear based but you could purchase gear from anyone. Bosses dropped gear that was also crafted.
It was just so difficult to craft that some clans would raid in order to gear up their members. But the whole point of the game was not to grid tokens, it was to gain power for pvp.
Former WoW player tyvm. I haven't touched that turd since mid-CATA.
I used blues and purples as an example since it is identifiable by other players. I am normally in the best non-raid gear because that is the direction I work towards in any gear-based game. However, that gears boring after a while. I want another way to advance my character that isn't totally tired to the acquisition of gear.
I didn't make it far into Lineage II. I tried playing when it first released and the leveling grind sickened me. What you described isn't the best potion either. Whether you're crafting, grinding tokens, or raiding (or a combination of those); you're still grinding something and working towards the "best" gear that you are willing to work towards.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I'm going to throw something out there. The old BASF commercial. I would change their tag line/slogan from: "We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy, better." to: "Grouping does not make an MMORPG. Grouping makes an MMORPG better."
Except that it doesn't. Grouping with decent people might make the experience occasionally better, but there aren't a lot of good people playing MMOs these days. That makes grouping with people who are essentially assholes a much, much worse game experience.
Group play is great, and is obviously an important gameplay element in most any mmorpg. Designing a game around such a dynamic is kind of a no-brainer, but it doesn't have to interfere with an important aspect of solo play: freedom. Being 100% reliant on groups for meaningful gameplay funnels a player's options into a kind of content containment mechanic. The freedom to venture out on a whim and perhaps meet an interesting stranger or discover a unique experience is something that creates memorable moments for many players. The possibility of this happening decreases when there is only group play, as groups tend to be formed for purposes, whether specific or general. Raids, pvp, leveling in dungeons, etc. Solo play offers, on average, a bit more flexibility in regard to emergent gameplay. Let's call it "solo-cial" gaming
"Grouping does not make an MMORPG. Grouping makes an MMORPG better."
If you're an extravert, that statement is correct, but if you're an introvert, it couldn't be further from the truth.
Therein lies the genesis of the group play vs solo play argument.
Extraverts want everybody to play with them, and talk to them constantly, whereas introverts would rather avoid that kind of direct interaction.
If extraverts read a little Yung, they would understand that theirs isn't the only type of personality that's considered normal.
So why would this introvert play an MMO again?
you know a game designed for having social contact in the first place.
bit wierd don't you think.
It's a common misconception, especially among extroverts, that introverts avoid social contact. Here's an article that may shed some light on the other side for you:
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I won't skip around the bush to please other ppl or to avade criticism.
I HATE! Solo play in MMORPG's. The clue is in the title of the genre ppl! Perfect example; Guild Wars 2!
Create a character that can survive alone with self heals. A character such as an Elementalist (historically a staff wielding power of nature!) is now running around with a greatsword?! Healing himself.
The reason MMORPG's worked so well in the past is because they where made to be played in groups and catered towards the more serious gamer who plows hours in to each gaming session. Now they are trying to cater for the entire market including casual players. (All about sales and profit!)
So now this genre has become slightly more casual where it's pick up and play. Be who and what you want, turn up at a Zerg fest, bash. Few keys and then run to the next Zerg fest.
If you want to play solo and "how you want to play" stick to solo games like skyrim. MMORPG's are multiplayer, you know, play with others.
This entire debate has only intensified with the addition of Guild Wars 2. A company who became brilliant due to Guild Wars 1. Sure WoW was bigger but at one point in time the only argument was WoW or GW. They did it right the first time! Why change something that works?!
The only people arguing for solo play are either the ones who are new to this genre, mainly console players or in my opinion ppl who don't really understand MMO's.
edit:
this new version companies are making should not be called MMORPG'S. As that defines your playing a ROLE (singular) not multiple roles ie; an Elementalist using a sword like a warrior, healing himself like a monk?! Should call them MMOPG. Take out the R.
really grinds my gears when I hear ppl arguing FOR solo play... Always reminds me of the type of players who play CoD. Pick up and play where as Battlefield requires more teamwork.
And for for anyone who says "the trinity is outdated and not needed" let me say this, that's like saying "shooting bad guys in a first person shooter is sooooo outdated and not needed" it's what makes the genre what it is!
I won't skip around the bush to please other ppl or to avade criticism.
I HATE! Solo play in MMORPG's. The clue is in the title of the genre ppl! Perfect example; Guild Wars 2!
Create a character that can survive alone with self heals. A character such as an Elementalist (historically a staff wielding power of nature!) is now running around with a greatsword?! Healing himself.
The reason MMORPG's worked so well in the past is because they where made to be played in groups and catered towards the more serious gamer who plows hours in to each gaming session. Now they are trying to cater for the entire market including casual players. (All about sales and profit!)
So now this genre has become slightly more casual where it's pick up and play. Be who and what you want, turn up at a Zerg fest, bash. Few keys and then run to the next Zerg fest.
If you want to play solo and "how you want to play" stick to solo games like skyrim. MMORPG's are multiplayer, you know, play with others.
This entire debate has only intensified with the addition of Guild Wars 2. A company who became brilliant due to Guild Wars 1. Sure WoW was bigger but at one point in time the only argument was WoW or GW. They did it right the first time! Why change something that works?!
The only people arguing for solo play are either the ones who are new to this genre, mainly console players or in my opinion ppl who don't really understand MMO's.
edit:
this new version companies are making should not be called MMORPG'S. As that defines your playing a ROLE (singular) not multiple roles ie; an Elementalist using a sword like a warrior, healing himself like a monk?! Should call them MMOPG. Take out the R.
really grinds my gears when I hear ppl arguing FOR solo play... Always reminds me of the type of players who play CoD. Pick up and play where as Battlefield requires more teamwork.
And for for anyone who says "the trinity is outdated and not needed" let me say this, that's like saying "shooting bad guys in a first person shooter is sooooo outdated and not needed" it's what makes the genre what it is!
MMO were made to replace Pen and Paper Rpg, those games were played by a group of players, each watching the others backs with their specific skill sets. I don't think we will ever see that wonderful synergy between players anymore. Those were the good times.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I won't skip around the bush to please other ppl or to avade criticism.
I HATE! Solo play in MMORPG's. The clue is in the title of the genre ppl! Perfect example; Guild Wars 2!
Create a character that can survive alone with self heals. A character such as an Elementalist (historically a staff wielding power of nature!) is now running around with a greatsword?! Healing himself.
The reason MMORPG's worked so well in the past is because they where made to be played in groups and catered towards the more serious gamer who plows hours in to each gaming session. Now they are trying to cater for the entire market including casual players. (All about sales and profit!)
So now this genre has become slightly more casual where it's pick up and play. Be who and what you want, turn up at a Zerg fest, bash. Few keys and then run to the next Zerg fest.
If you want to play solo and "how you want to play" stick to solo games like skyrim. MMORPG's are multiplayer, you know, play with others.
This entire debate has only intensified with the addition of Guild Wars 2. A company who became brilliant due to Guild Wars 1. Sure WoW was bigger but at one point in time the only argument was WoW or GW. They did it right the first time! Why change something that works?!
The only people arguing for solo play are either the ones who are new to this genre, mainly console players or in my opinion ppl who don't really understand MMO's.
edit:
this new version companies are making should not be called MMORPG'S. As that defines your playing a ROLE (singular) not multiple roles ie; an Elementalist using a sword like a warrior, healing himself like a monk?! Should call them MMOPG. Take out the R.
really grinds my gears when I hear ppl arguing FOR solo play... Always reminds me of the type of players who play CoD. Pick up and play where as Battlefield requires more teamwork.
And for for anyone who says "the trinity is outdated and not needed" let me say this, that's like saying "shooting bad guys in a first person shooter is sooooo outdated and not needed" it's what makes the genre what it is!
MMO's have never been defined by the trinity, ever. And certainly didn't start with the trinity.
The trinity never made the genre what it is.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
Just my opinion on the matter... Why not both?
Blasphemy, I know.
The reason I say both is because it's ridiculous to ask people to always play with a group. Some people only like to play with a specific group of friends, they don't want to deal with meeting new people for whatever reason, if an MMO has content that is basically group only, that person has nothing they can do in the game while waiting for their friends to show up.
Worse yet, I remember playing FFXI... I think that was the MMO one.. and at first I was able to solo while waiting for friends to show up or a group to pick me up. It was slow and grindy as hell but I could do it. When I finally got out of the newbie area and out to a higher level one I found that I basically had to either, go back to grinding the newbie area, or hope to god that a group would pick me up so I could keep progressing my character and just plain kill things.
On the other hand you have games like The Old Republic which don't really do a good job with group content, which is silly since it's such an important part of an MMO. For the most part the game feels like a solo game. Short of fighting a world boss or going to one of the instances, there's really no reason for anyone to group up. Things were made even more awkward when they tried to combine story and group play. They didn't really do it in such a way where one person was the designated leader/mouth of the group and everyone else could chime in and add to the conversation. Nope! We got a dice roll system that was really weird and sometimes had one person talking all the time while others just sat there having to go with whatever that one lucky character wanted to say, even if their own character would disagree violently.
You just can't have an MMO without soloable content or group content. You need both. EVE is great in that regard. A player can do a lot on their own. They can do even more in a group, or still themselves if they want to pay for and operate multiple accounts at once.
Kingdom of Knights - Community Manager
Well, multiplayer is what FPS games used as a term before the MMO concept came around. And FPS games aren't MMOs (unless they're MMOFPS games with persistent worlds, not maps). BF3, for example, is a FPS not a MMO, as it's a map game.
Forced grouping is anytime when to complete an objective you can't do it yourself, there's no other alternative but to get a group to finish. In a FPS game 1 person could by running out and controlling flags/points. In many MMORPGs you won't be able to even enter the instance without a premade group to prevent that.
Games like DDO there is an alternative to forced grouping by hiring NPC henchmen, while maintaining the MMO concept and preserving needing a group to accomplish objectives (that henchmen concept is pretty neat, as you chose your party makeup. I like defensive game play so pick more defensive toons; were another could pick more DPS centeric groups; or others healbot groups).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
What I don't get is why many people feel that MMORPG's should cater to their tastes. Everyone has a different idea of what their ideal MMO should be and yet most of the MMORPG's try to cater to completely opposite playstyles destroying them both.
Group Centric MMORPG needs group mechanics that keep gameplay interesting. Hard enemies that take skill and coordination to defeat in a timely manner. It kind of needs Tank and spank holy trinity, and an expansive crafting system.
Solo Centric: More flexible in the type of gameplay. Action RPG type gameplay does well. A good RvR model with gear/skill progression is needed.
Mixing the 2 does neither model any good yet companies keep mashing them together and throwing it at the wall... Unless you copy WoW which IMO has the perfect balance between group content and questing you will ultimately end up with garbage.
You know what they call an MMO that's group-only? Out of business. There is no MMORPG in existence that is group-only and the overwhelming majority of players are solo-only or primarily solo players.
What planet do you people live on, that you think most MMO players want to group?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm going to throw something out there. The old BASF commercial. I would change their tag line/slogan from:
"We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy, better."
to:
"Grouping does not make an MMORPG. Grouping makes an MMORPG better."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Ironically, lobby games are becoming more like mmos so perhaps in a not too distance future there will be one that focuses on pve and player interdependancy.
If those were the only 2 long embattled play styles in your avg mmo finding a happy medium would be challenge enough. But nooooo devs are iron men(and women) more headaches the better. PVE raiders, casuals, groupers, soloers. voichatters, shut the hell upers, questers, sandboxers, chatters, TUNRN IT OFFers -pvp, openW-looting, OpenW-nolooting, battlegrounders, RVR'rs, gankers duelers, Lone Wolfers.......
My advice? pick complimentary ones, target them, and design around core play styles. everyone would be a hell of a lot happier and overtime wouldn't be as needed.
Neverwinter?
I REALLY like World of Tanks !! Mostly like T62A., and IS-7 and E50M
Add me as a friend ,lets TALK ~~
The "team only" advocates really don't have a leg to stand on here. The "team only" MMO model died way back in 2004 with the launch of World of Warcraft, which to this day is still the single-most successful MMO on the market, and it's very solo-friendly.
Remember when Dungeons & Dragons Online and Vanguard tried to bring back the "team only" model? They failed miserably in part because people don't like to be forced into grouping.
The idea that MMO players like to talk to each other is a curious assertion. If they like to talk to each other so much, why then in games like Guild Wars 2 do they so often choose not to do it? Because in actuality they don't like to talk to each other, only doing so when forced into it (usually to find a group in a game lacking group-finding tools). If they truly liked to talk to each other, they would be doing it in GW2 because hey, they like to do it, right? Except the fact is, they don't. So they don't. MMO players as a whole are pretty much introverts if you think about it. Finding your socializing through MMOs is a very introvert kind of thing to do. If they did a scientific study on it, I'd not be surprised to find the majority of MMO players are introverts IRL, with extroverts making up a relatively small proportion of players (I'd expect the true extrovert to seek out more face-to-face means of socializing).
The truth of MMORPG grouping is this: instead of forcing people into it, make teaming convenient, fun & rewarding. Do that and people will team voluntarily.
Now there's a community that can benefit from a bit more silence lol. World of Tankers are a very...special bunch.
Basically I'm tired of playing with people who act like they are 8 yr old school boys,girls who act like cyber sluts to gain items in games,people who think they know it all,bullies,liars,ego trippers,big mouths,people who like to talktrash cause their parents aren't leaning over their shoulders....
I am tired of reading game guides and finding out I have to help others ,join guilds, play with friends, join others,blah blah blah... After playing many many games online,I am weary of it. I want to play games solo if at all possible. If I don't find that certain game,I'll be done with games online forever. It's really gotten old.
Too much solo content makes the game a failure and defeats the purpose of having an online game. Too much group content causes issues for those that want to play online games, but don't have the time or desire to dedicate that time to it.
Games have been hit and miss. Either they are too solo friendly (GW2), or require you to group to advance the plot (GW2, SWTOR, FFXIV). WoW got it right...well, mostly right. You CAN level to cap without ever grouping, but then you're forced to group if you want better gear.
Its one of the fundamental flaws about gear based games; you're either a solo player in crafted purples or quest blues, or your're a group player in dungeon purples. I'm generally the latter, but for once I'd like to see a game with advancement other than grind dungeon tokens until you're blue in the face..
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I don't agree with your first sentence but do agree that there needs to be a balance between type of content.
As for your last sentence I'm thinking you are a WoW player.
Not every game does "purples and blues" and not every game has you grind tokens.
I bring it up a lot but "Lineage 2" had a great balance of solo and group content. it was gear based but you could purchase gear from anyone. Bosses dropped gear that was also crafted.
It was just so difficult to craft that some clans would raid in order to gear up their members. But the whole point of the game was not to grid tokens, it was to gain power for pvp.
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Former WoW player tyvm. I haven't touched that turd since mid-CATA.
I used blues and purples as an example since it is identifiable by other players. I am normally in the best non-raid gear because that is the direction I work towards in any gear-based game. However, that gears boring after a while. I want another way to advance my character that isn't totally tired to the acquisition of gear.
I didn't make it far into Lineage II. I tried playing when it first released and the leveling grind sickened me. What you described isn't the best potion either. Whether you're crafting, grinding tokens, or raiding (or a combination of those); you're still grinding something and working towards the "best" gear that you are willing to work towards.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Except that it doesn't. Grouping with decent people might make the experience occasionally better, but there aren't a lot of good people playing MMOs these days. That makes grouping with people who are essentially assholes a much, much worse game experience.
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If you're an extravert, that statement is correct, but if you're an introvert, it couldn't be further from the truth.
Therein lies the genesis of the group play vs solo play argument.
Extraverts want everybody to play with them, and talk to them constantly, whereas introverts would rather avoid that kind of direct interaction.
If extraverts read a little Yung, they would understand that theirs isn't the only type of personality that's considered normal.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
So why would this introvert play an MMO again?
you know a game designed for having social contact in the first place.
bit wierd don't you think.
If you're an extravert it would seem weird, especially if you think everyone should be like you.
The reality is introverts are the majority in the MMO genre, whether you care to admit it, or not.
Real social contact is the eye to eye variety. People play MMO's to escape from that, and the real world in general.
It's a common misconception, especially among extroverts, that introverts avoid social contact. Here's an article that may shed some light on the other side for you:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/introvert-myths_n_3569058.html
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I won't skip around the bush to please other ppl or to avade criticism.
I HATE! Solo play in MMORPG's. The clue is in the title of the genre ppl! Perfect example; Guild Wars 2!
Create a character that can survive alone with self heals. A character such as an Elementalist (historically a staff wielding power of nature!) is now running around with a greatsword?! Healing himself.
The reason MMORPG's worked so well in the past is because they where made to be played in groups and catered towards the more serious gamer who plows hours in to each gaming session. Now they are trying to cater for the entire market including casual players. (All about sales and profit!)
So now this genre has become slightly more casual where it's pick up and play. Be who and what you want, turn up at a Zerg fest, bash. Few keys and then run to the next Zerg fest.
If you want to play solo and "how you want to play" stick to solo games like skyrim. MMORPG's are multiplayer, you know, play with others.
This entire debate has only intensified with the addition of Guild Wars 2. A company who became brilliant due to Guild Wars 1. Sure WoW was bigger but at one point in time the only argument was WoW or GW. They did it right the first time! Why change something that works?!
The only people arguing for solo play are either the ones who are new to this genre, mainly console players or in my opinion ppl who don't really understand MMO's.
edit:
this new version companies are making should not be called MMORPG'S. As that defines your playing a ROLE (singular) not multiple roles ie; an Elementalist using a sword like a warrior, healing himself like a monk?! Should call them MMOPG. Take out the R.
really grinds my gears when I hear ppl arguing FOR solo play... Always reminds me of the type of players who play CoD. Pick up and play where as Battlefield requires more teamwork.
And for for anyone who says "the trinity is outdated and not needed" let me say this, that's like saying "shooting bad guys in a first person shooter is sooooo outdated and not needed" it's what makes the genre what it is!
MMO were made to replace Pen and Paper Rpg, those games were played by a group of players, each watching the others backs with their specific skill sets. I don't think we will ever see that wonderful synergy between players anymore. Those were the good times.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
MMO's have never been defined by the trinity, ever. And certainly didn't start with the trinity.
The trinity never made the genre what it is.