If there are 2 things that Warhammer Online did right, it was the Tome of Knoweldge and Public Quests. I'd like to see these implemented somehow. Like, say, Eldar are trying to summon an Avatar of Khaine, and the Orks attempt to put an end to the rituals. Or Chaos Cultists trying to summon a demon, and the Space Marines stopping it. A Techmarine could be trying to unlock and utilize a Titan to use, and everyone tries to smash his face in.
Needing is Wanting... Wanting is Coveting... Coveting is Sinning... I am SO going to Hell.
Originally posted by Savij clip *something about WAAAGH! *
Maybe we can just stay closer to tabletop rules. "WAAAGH!" cannot be activated until AFTER a battle has gone underway, and there has to be a certain number of Orks to start the countdown to "WAAAGH!" So long as the area is marked as 'engaged' like say a camp or a fortress, and the number of orks besieging/defending stay about the minimum number, the countdown continues. When the WAAAAGH! clock reaches 0, all ork players in the area recieve a massive buff, allowing them to cover twice as much distance as usual, and their dakka to increase several fold. It wears off after a while, but the opponent(s) will be hard pressed. As shown in lore, stopping a full blown WAAAAGH! is hard, and often the defenders pay a steep price for doing so.
With a mechanic like this, this will also encourage Ork players to play the Ork's chief strength: strength in numbers. If players want the devastating WAAAGH!, they'll need other players to help them.
Similar systems can be given to the other factions with other trade offs or something.
Like Chaos, before battle, they can devote their 'current life' to Khorne. They become a beserker, only able to use a melee weapon and charge into battle, but in exchange, they move faster, take less damage, and deal more damage with said melee weapon.
I can't say much for Eldar, besides that Orks call them pansies.
Space Marines I dunno, I think it could be chapter specific. Space Wolves get something involving wolves, Blood Angels get black rage, etc.
I'm new to this forum, just starting this account to participate in the Eternal Crusade discussions.
Since the announcement of this most exciting game I've been wracking my brain for what I hope to see. There's been great conflict in considering what I want, and even more once I had read some of the very interesting ideas posted as well. I'd like to share some of my thoughts, though I caution you that the following post will be lengthy.
To begin with a few questions as to the basic design layout of the game in my mind (not directed at devs, but just curious in and of itself);
I'm wondering how classes will be handled. Whether you'll pick one to stick with during character creation (which I doubt as it wouldn't make for very good in-game balance) or it will be like Planetside 2 with being able to swap classes and loadouts before deployment, which would seem more suitable to what this game hopes to accomplish, in my perspective.
I'm really in love with the apparent dev decision to avoid endgame and its duplicitous effects on what is, up until then, a good game (in my opinion from experience). Though I feel it will be challenging avoid inadvertently creating an endgame from certain objectives one wants to complete (such as attaining unlockable classes with all "endgame" players using them only).
[I'll be using Space Marines as my main source of examples for the purposes of this post]
This brings up my thoughts on how some advanced and desirable classes will be handled (e.g, for Space Marines, Apothecary/Techmarine to Librarian/Chaplain to Terminator and Dreadnought). I assume most would agree we want to limit these being seen en masse on the battlefield, either through timers/requisition to level/experience requirements.
I personally feel that although classes that serve a distinctly crucial purpose like the Apothecary/Techmarine are more limited in lore, they should be allowed to be used more openly in-game. I would suggest that the Apothecary/Techmarine/Librarian/Chaplain (and equivalent classes across the races) be dialed down heavily in terms of combat ability in exchange for excellent supportive capability.
As an example, a member of the group I belong to (Vigilia Mortis) named Niketas Rocas put forth this,
"Techmarine: Support for the Ranged classes and vehicles. Repair vehicles and deploy ammo. Large support ability. Able to place turrets that can be manned. Few anti tank/infantry "area of denial" abilities such as mines perhaps but mostly a ranged class.
Apothecary: Support for all classes. Healing and reviving(BASED ON CERTAIN SITUATIONS!). A neat system would be something like this.
Tactical Marine dies and is unreviveable (tank shell to the face, chain sword to the head etc etc, certain strikes and hits outright kill while some incapacitate. Such level of mechanic is still brainstorming in my head). Lets say Tactical Marine has a 30 second respawn. Apothecary gets to dead Tactical and "revives" (I.E. extracts gene seed) the Tactical which shortens his respawn timer. DURING THIS the Apothecary is very vulnerable. PERHAPS to make it more challenging that just LOL HOLD BUTTON perhaps...a minigame of sorts (NO QTE)
Librarian: "Eyes and Ears" so to speak. Ability to locate enemies (Like a UAV of sorts...I would love to see a Librarian floating around the battlefield while Battle Brothers shout OUR LIBRARIAN IS ONLINE!). His abilities have the power to "bolster" team mates and wreck havoc on enemies I think. It's a very grey area on how they will work and how Psyker powers in general will role."
I would also like the Librarian to have a really close-range detection radius of a few meters (to root our pesky Eldar and the like). I also agree with quotheraving's post in this thread about avoiding dedicated healer classes. In the case of the Apothecary, it is somewhat unavoidable, but I think it can be balanced effectively.
How the Chaplain would work is a bit elusive to me. I assume his mere presence could project a positive aural buff to nearby troops, with perhaps a few abilities with timers and durations that consist of a recitation of scripture or a short speech. Basically, the Chaplain could be more defencive support with the Librarian being offencive support.
My reason for suggesting this is because I, personally, really want to play these classes extensively, and preferably without any restriction, but I don't want to be one of thousands of Apothecaries/Chaplains running around as too many support "chiefs" without the combat class "indians" to actually support. That is why I suppose making them very weak in combat so that it will deter more/most people from playing them who want to be viable in battle.
As for Terminators, I suggest they simply be used as MAXes do in Planetside 2, just way more restricted. The Dreadnought is tricky for its mechanics, but I'd basically like a mechanic included to reflect the permanence of the use of it. Perhaps any player who has unlocked it can only use it once per campaign?
Regarding grouping and command structures, I hope we'll at least have most of the tools provided in Planetside 2, but hopefully some more (and more added down the road). I really enjoy coordinating a large force in PS2, but I feel there could be some more tools to make it more interesting. As I find myself not doing much fighting as a Platoon Leader in PS2, I would love if there was some deeper mechanics for field command and strategic planning. I quite like quotheraving's post linked here. Not so much the latter part about server shuffles, as I think that messes with the sense of community and rivalry between player groups in opposing factions. It would be better to just not allow one to play on different factions on the same server.
One of my greatest hopes for this game is a suitably awesome and decked out map system. Little gets me as giddy as seeing animated map systems in the various Warhammer video games. Being able to manipulate one personally is a fantasy of mine.
On the topic of grouping, on of my biggest wishes is to be able to field a fully company as a single group online (up to 10 men per squad including Sergeant forming up to 10 squads totalling maximum of 101 players including commanding officer). The four squad limit in PS2 isn't enough for coordinating the kind of large scenarios I wished I could.
On vehicles (air/ground), I'd love if they included all the armour from TT with their viable variants (perhaps even chapter-specific ones down the road!) as unlockable specializations through credits, or whatever we'll be using equivalent to certs from PS2.
Moving onto things I don't want:
I'd like to see as few NPCs outside of the resting zone ships as possible. I don't want to see anything on the battlefield or in bases except for players and neutral-hostiles (i.e, Tyranids).
Unpopular as it may be, I don't want to see any Titans, unless it's a special event occurring once (and definitely no less than a year).
Space combat/ship-to-ship I feel would be a great expansion down the road, if it comes at all.
I've got so much more to add and post, but I'll just begin with all this. I've got thoughts on the other races as well, but they'll have to wait.
TL;DR, I have helplessly high expectations and equally high hopes.
Hi there, my suggestion for the game would be following (dunno if it has been mentioned or discussed before):
Let our character grow in power - I would like very much to see some kind of levels/char progression in the game. I know, you have probably discarded this idea already, but consider it again. I am not asking traditional leveling systems in classic MMOs, but in my opinion, long term character progression adds a lot of purpose to the game in the long run. I believe, that you don't want to see old characters being overpowered against the newly created ones, even few years into the game's life span. And because I really love the achievement feeling that comes with gaining new levels in a game, I would propose this system.
1) add A LOT of levels, in my example ill use 100 levels system. For us, level-o-holics, the more, the better....sooo, you could use just 10 tiers/levels, but why not cut their gains and bonuses by ten and have 100 levels?!!
2) each level will give you an advantage of 0.1 % - so in total maxed out character will have 10 % advantage compared to brand new one. That would, in my view, be also friendly with the lore, suggesting, we all start as new recruits of our chapter/clan/warbands and will be basically gaining experience as new soldiers of our selected factions. And it wouldn't be so disqualifying for new players in this MMO action combat game
3) treat different fighting styles separately in level progression - if you are shooting with bolter, your bolter skill will gain levels, a vice versa if you are using you power fist
4) after gaining a new level with your weapon, you can designate the 0.1 % gain to certain weapon-dependent characteristics. For bolter, it could be accuracy, crit. chance, reload time, etc.
5) make the system really long time goal oriented. To raise from level 99 to 100 in bolter skill should require to kill like enemy 1000 players with bolter fire
6) add one level progression with some passive bonuses for your selected class (tactical, assault, devastator marine...) and another passive one for your faction passives (SM, CSM, Eldar, Ork)
The game is shaping very nice so far, 2015 couldn't come soon enough!
I've been thinking about Crowd control mechanics (CCM for convenience) and have a few things I'd like to offer up in the way of suggestions.
One of my pet peeves in mmos are stuns and other kinds of crowd control being used in PVP.
In my experience there is no worse feeling that realising that you are caught in a cheap no-skill ability that lets an enemy you may not have even noticed (until they rendered your character helpless,) whack away at you like a piñata at no risk to themselves.
Frankly being chain stunned to death sucks! You may as well walk away from the keyboard because all you will be able to do is to spectate as your character is killed and your lifeless corpse is Tbagged.
Ok many games that employ CCMs typically offer limited stun breakers to help counterbalance them, or have diminishing returns on their duration to prevent characters being stunned over and over again, but these are bandaid fixes designed to reduce the unintended side effect of having a mechanic that seems aimed at PvE play also available in PvP.
The obvious answer - and my suggestion - is to avoid hard CCM abilities like stuns and instead limit CCM to softer abilities like slows, parries and interrupts with the harder end of that spectrum (slows) having a diminishing return to prevent overuse. Even with that check and balance in mind a slow may still end up being too annoying an ability, but it's still not a patch on being stunlocked!
hm i cant imagine a stun in this game
maybe a knockdown by explosion sounds very likly (and i think was already confirmed in some way) and maybe a slow by surpressing (like in DoW)
but silence and stun like in other MMOs just dont fit in a third person shooter
I've been thinking about Crowd control mechanics (CCM for convenience) and have a few things I'd like to offer up in the way of suggestions.
One of my pet peeves in mmos are stuns and other kinds of crowd control being used in PVP.
In my experience there is no worse feeling that realising that you are caught in a cheap no-skill ability that lets an enemy you may not have even noticed (until they rendered your character helpless,) whack away at you like a piñata at no risk to themselves.
Frankly being chain stunned to death sucks! You may as well walk away from the keyboard because all you will be able to do is to spectate as your character is killed and your lifeless corpse is Tbagged.
Ok many games that employ CCMs typically offer limited stun breakers to help counterbalance them, or have diminishing returns on their duration to prevent characters being stunned over and over again, but these are bandaid fixes designed to reduce the unintended side effect of having a mechanic that seems aimed at PvE play also available in PvP.
The obvious answer - and my suggestion - is to avoid hard CCM abilities like stuns and instead limit CCM to softer abilities like slows, parries and interrupts with the harder end of that spectrum (slows) having a diminishing return to prevent overuse. Even with that check and balance in mind a slow may still end up being too annoying an ability, but it's still not a patch on being stunlocked!
I agree with this statement 100%. I have been stunned, sapped, and worse in WoW way to many times by trixy little rogues... But it all changes when I get my DK right up their faces ):3
Originally posted by Savijhm i cant imagine a stun in this gamemaybe a knockdown by explosion sounds very likly (and i think was already confirmed in some way) and maybe a slow by surpressing (like in DoW)but silence and stun like in other MMOs just dont fit in a third person shooter
I realy curious how the banshees gona be implemented, are they gona slow down units(like in TT reduce initative) or gona stun(like in fluff)?
thats difficult to answer having them stuning enemies and beeing melee experts would make them unkillable in closecombat unless you are double in numbers that they cant stun all
"war isnt fair", true but who wants to fight someone who you cant beat?
slowing could be more possible but maybe less useful in a direct hand to hand combat when the enemy isnt running away
maybe make a mix of both? if the banshee managed to hit the head with the stun, the enemy gets stunned, if he hits something else he just gets slowed therefor the stun have to be something like a beam with a not to small diameter so its not to hard to hit the small heads on the big bodys for orks the "beam" should need to hit the "brain section" of the head, cause they have much bigger heads and it would be to easy target
I would like to hear some more opinions to the suppressing (slow) CC idea
I imagine it this way: All players have a bar in their HUB the "suppressing-bar". (terminator-like classes do not have one) To bring the bar to zero would always require more then a single automatic weapon (unless it does not need to reload or cooldown, heavy bolter for example) Because the bar always fills itself at decent speed unless it hits zero, then it needs 2-3secs without any enemy bullets flying across the "suppressing-area" to regenerate
The "suppressing-area": All players have an area around them the "suppressing-area" (cylinder shape) When an enemy bullet flies through/hits the ground of your "s-area", your "s-bar" loses energy If the "s-bar" is empty your character is forced to crouch and is slower then usual (like in DoW)
Then some things would help you to minimize the losing-rate of your "s-bar": Cover between you and the enemy, teammates at your side, maybe smoke from smoke grenades too.
But the enemy could improve the losing-rate: The more enemies shot at your "s-area" and the closer the enemy is the faster your "s-bar" falls
Then different weapon-types do more or less "s-bar" damage, the general rule could be "the bigger the bullet the more suppressions" That would mean that eldar weapons would have the lowest suppressions per shot but they have a high firerate (maybe the highest) SM/CSM would have the highest suppressions per shot but slower firerate Orks would be the middle way but they have more mates and maybe unlimited ammo
Would love to hear some opinions
uha Q ninjad me :O i needed over 45 min for that 2 posts >.<
I think I came up with a great idea here, what if you guys incorporate a Librarium (or what ever it is) onboard personal ships that tells of the different campaigns in the past. This could work as a sort of political office where players can record events and outcomes of the war. Many of you may say that Space Marines are not scribes, but in fact some of them are( A Soul Drinker space marine became famous for writing a popular book!) and they can be elected by the community to record the history. This could make a good chance for people to enact some RP skills and give newer players stories of the glories and epic battles of the past, possibly giving them hype for the future. This might be a bit lore breaking for orks (do orks even write books???), but it would definitely be interesting to read the history from an orks' perspective. It will also be funny to read of how each faction's history differs from the other. This could also have the added benefit of having the community come closer together, as they want to tell the historian battles they think should be included. Another aspect of this is that it can immortalize the different players that played key roles for the campaign. I personally think this feature would be very cool to have in the game.
ok here is how i believe classes should work, using vanilla marines as a baseline
1. pick chapter - design char - choose class
2. each class has weapon types and a special type of ability or "class specific" you can say the classes would be: librarian, tech, apothecary, and standard.
3. standard marines class ability is to have the several variants playable (assault, tactical and devistator)
librarians get a psyker bar and abilities of course
tech should get a resource bar, say 10 cogs, and each crafted skill, like a turret or a small wall for cover cost set points and are slowly refunded when they are destroyed.
apoths can maybe get a second variant of chaplain as well, so we can have the whole gang, one healer for the body, on for the mind (some light buffs from the chap, think chosen from WAR)
4. all classes start with chain swordolt pistol but weapon certs are bought with resources and vary by class. based mostly on 1 or 2 handed, with some exceptions.
assaults get 1 or 2 handed melee and 1h ranged, tacs can get a 2h melee or ranged, but gets 1h of the opposite, devs get their unique heavies and a combat dagger.
librarians get 1 or 2h force wep and a pistol
techs same as assault
apoths get 2h ranged and their drill for melee
then we can throw some wargear slots for levels or what have you.
Originally posted by DecisiveRaindrop I think I came up with a great idea here, what if you guys incorporate a Librarium (or what ever it is) onboard personal ships that tells of the different campaigns in the past. This could work as a sort of political office where players can record events and outcomes of the war. Many of you may say that Space Marines are not scribes, but in fact some of them are( A Soul Drinker space marine became famous for writing a popular book!) and they can be elected by the community to record the history. This could make a good chance for people to enact some RP skills and give newer players stories of the glories and epic battles of the past, possibly giving them hype for the future. This might be a bit lore breaking for orks (do orks even write books???), but it would definitely be interesting to read the history from an orks' perspective. It will also be funny to read of how each faction's history differs from the other. This could also have the added benefit of having the community come closer together, as they want to tell the historian battles they think should be included. Another aspect of this is that it can immortalize the different players that played key roles for the campaign. I personally think this feature would be very cool to have in the game.
Well that sorta is and isn't canon. Space Marines themselves don't keep the records, the human serfs that serve them do. They inscribe everything to what battles they fought, to where they fought, how many enemy heads were collected, to how long it took the Chapter Master to take a dump.
Actually I think a Librarium would also be a nice way of keeping track of player's achievements in game, how many enemies slain, forts captured, etc. This can be applied to both the player, the 'company' he is part of, and the Chapter within the faction as a whole.
Orks do have a written language, but they don't use it to keep history. Language is just for giving orders and carving insults on the bathroom wall. Orks keep the history of their clan alive though the storytellers(smartboyz)
just to name one, SWs do not, and they are one of the starting chapters
also, the other 3 sides dont have to suffer such restriction. CSM are essentially first founding legions, their numbers could be anything. orks are horde. and craftworlds are certainly bigger than 1000.
If we get flying units at some point, It would be really funny if you'd be able to do a barrel roll::):):)
But anyway, for flying unit controls I suggest that the dev team should take a look at War Thunder. It's an airplane simulator and many people like the way how the airplanes in that game handle with keyboard+mouse.
My take on the crafting system, that would not only be useful, fun, stick to the lore (more or less), but especially played an important role in social interaction within the game factions and will be also important from the strategic point of view (I will use SMs in this example, but it could be easily adapted to other factions):
- No Space Marine will ever craft himself, it is the work for chapter serfs. So, as you progress though the ranks/levels/tiers you will gain more and more serfs at your disposal. I imagine starting with one, ending up with 5 in top level senior status.
- as you progress, the crafting trees and possibilities will start opening up. Probably begining with customizing the color, appearance of your armor, sticking the right purity seals and honor badges, cleaning your bolter etc. Crafting will run in realtime and will continue if you log out. Basicly you just order your serf to do this work for you and go to sleep/war...
- now comes the important social aspect of this crafting system. You will be able to redirect the availability of your serfs work to different levels of game faction organization - squad level, strike force level, whole faction level. And each level authorities will be able to use this workforce to craft important assets for the given level of organization.
For example: you have 2 serfs at your disposal. You can order one to clean your armor for the next 6 hours (and you get some minor bonus for 20 minutes the next time you log in), and let the second serf work for your squad leader. He desides, that your squad needs a new training room in the spaceship, and this will need some resources + 20 days of work. He has 5 serfs available from you and your squadmates, so you can have your new training room ready in 4 days (realtime).
- more important for your war effort will be the crafting done on strike force and whole-faction levels. I imagine the serfs working on these levels could be used to craft: special ammunition, prepare dreadnaught and terminator armors for deployment, craft advanced defence turets that can be spawn on conquested bases/POIs, prepare orbital bombardment strikes etc.
some explanation: ammo - normal bolter ammo will be always available, if you want to use kraken/hellfire etc, you have to craft it first. Same goes with spawning the dreadnaught (i know its against the lore and I am rather negative to allowing players to play as dreadnaught, but it will be probably in the game, nevertheless) - yes, you will need the resources pooled from all your squad mates or strike force mates to spawn one, yes you will need the right certification/level requirements, but you will also need to spend the serf work for properly rites of awakening (or whats not).
Same goes with spawning the automated defence turrets on conquested base. The basic version will be free (heavy bolter), if you want plasma turrets, laser, multimelta etc. you have to craft them first.
- applying these different organization level crafts will play an important factor in cooperation of the players. It will depend very much in what squad and strike force you will be. Will you have loyal and organized co-players? Players who will provide enough of their serfs to work for the strike force? Will you have caring leadership, that will prepare for your war effort with stocking enough ammo, tanks, teleport pulses, terminator armors, advance turret weapons?
- tactical decisions will also come into consideration with this crafting system. Something like, should we launch our offensive now, or wait few more hours untill will we prepare and stock enough weapons to be successfull. Or deliberatedly deplete the enemy strike forces stocks of heavy weapon turrets and then overrun their fortress with heavy armor, and so on, and so forth
What do you think, guys? Have crafting been discussed before, I couldnt find it?
I need make mention that this is not entirely the case, in terms of crafting for Space Marines. Salamanders are reknowned throughout the Imperium for their individual crafting abilities - that's why so much of their equipment is labeled as Master Crafted. Arjac Rockfist is a Space Wolf, who hammers out swords on a daily basis, mostly to pass the time. He makes priceless weapons, then destroys them out of boredom.
Plenty of Space Marines have crafted their own close combat weapons. Uriel Ventris, Captain of the 4th company of Ultramarines, smithied his own sword after the previous one broke in battle. Most ranged weapons, like Bolters, Lasguns/Cannons, etc. are mostly made on forge worlds. Melee weapons, however, are an entirely different story.
If crafting were to be made available, it should be for buff items and melee weapons only - guns, armor, these items are too complicated. Terminator Armor takes decades to make, but a keen sword is well within the realm of possibility. Also, item upgrades. Swapping out firing pins, installing new improved barrels, better firing mechanisms - this I can get behind. I say let us make bladed weapons and totems/scrolls/runic items, stat buffers and the like.
Needing is Wanting... Wanting is Coveting... Coveting is Sinning... I am SO going to Hell.
Dreadnaughts and equivilants and eventually expand to whole units of Player owned and commanded AI asissted units. I just think it would be way cool to have a teleport beacon and be allowed to bring in an AI controlled Termi squad which is used much like an RTS termi squad.
To add some squad cohesion, players in the squad can take over the control of a terminator (and any other spawnable ai controlled units), sort of like a vehicle being open to squads and platoons in PS2.
Units still using AI could be controlled through the map, using patrol for an area, defend and attack. There should also be a priority selection list, between air, tank, infantry.
Give Elite Defenders a way to break zerg.
More than just artillary or orbital bombardment call downs. I would love to see air straffing runs that originate from an air port and so actually travels across territory and is open for attack. The same sort of mechanics can be seen in World in Conflict, the RTS which lets players control air units like helicopters but also use F-17 jet call ins that take time between selection and action, representing take off and travel before simply straffing by air units.
Turrets, automated turrets, one for each person. AA, AT, HE. Something to help repel large attacks with small units of players. They should only be built on owned territory, so attackers do not benefit.
Buildable cover, let defenders block choke points and build up cover to be overpowering but destructable. Check the game Panzar which gives players environmental transformation, such as walling up entrances, trapping and cover building.
Make psykers a purchased load out and not a class
Psychic powers would be loaded out based on psyker class and deployment cost is based on psyker level. Because psykers have a deployment cost and are limited, psychic powers can be devestating, instead of just a hard to balance mechanic. Think of Jedi from Battlefront 2 they were OP but because they were few in number they were fun to fight because they were walking bombs.
Speaking of Battlefront 2, make special characters available to people who complete a special task for the day.
The criteria could be based on defenses, captures, kills and the character who best resembles the achievement is awarded. For instance, if your a Space Wolf with a large number of defenses than Arjac Rockfist could be awarded.
You would only get to use the special character once, after death the criteria is lost and a cooldown of say 24 hours is put on the account for use of that special character. The next player meeting the criteria gets to use the special character. Only unique named special characters would be available at one time so the same character is not in two different places at once.
Modularize Everything!
The best part of 40k is that you can basically customize an army to play in anyway you want. I used to Zerg as Space Wolves and Melee with Guardmen (catachan). The point is I really want to be able to make my character able to do that based on how I design the loadout. So as a Space Wolf I might not be the fastest "assault" but I'm not having to use those jump packs, that tech don't sit right with this Great Wolf.
Originally posted by Wanay snipWhat do you think, guys? Have crafting been discussed before, I couldnt find it?W.
Crafting has been spoken to in depth on the official forums. It is not a very popular topic among EC fans. The crafting as it has been described by the dev team is about as far as any one wants to go.
Make sure and check the official forums guys.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Comments
Needing is Wanting...
Wanting is Coveting...
Coveting is Sinning...
I am SO going to Hell.
Maybe we can just stay closer to tabletop rules. "WAAAGH!" cannot be activated until AFTER a battle has gone underway, and there has to be a certain number of Orks to start the countdown to "WAAAGH!" So long as the area is marked as 'engaged' like say a camp or a fortress, and the number of orks besieging/defending stay about the minimum number, the countdown continues. When the WAAAAGH! clock reaches 0, all ork players in the area recieve a massive buff, allowing them to cover twice as much distance as usual, and their dakka to increase several fold. It wears off after a while, but the opponent(s) will be hard pressed. As shown in lore, stopping a full blown WAAAAGH! is hard, and often the defenders pay a steep price for doing so.
With a mechanic like this, this will also encourage Ork players to play the Ork's chief strength: strength in numbers. If players want the devastating WAAAGH!, they'll need other players to help them.
Similar systems can be given to the other factions with other trade offs or something.
Like Chaos, before battle, they can devote their 'current life' to Khorne. They become a beserker, only able to use a melee weapon and charge into battle, but in exchange, they move faster, take less damage, and deal more damage with said melee weapon.
I can't say much for Eldar, besides that Orks call them pansies.
Space Marines I dunno, I think it could be chapter specific. Space Wolves get something involving wolves, Blood Angels get black rage, etc.
Dreah I'm yunk, wazzit matter to you?
Needing is Wanting...
Wanting is Coveting...
Coveting is Sinning...
I am SO going to Hell.
Hello, all!
I'm new to this forum, just starting this account to participate in the Eternal Crusade discussions.
Since the announcement of this most exciting game I've been wracking my brain for what I hope to see. There's been great conflict in considering what I want, and even more once I had read some of the very interesting ideas posted as well. I'd like to share some of my thoughts, though I caution you that the following post will be lengthy.
To begin with a few questions as to the basic design layout of the game in my mind (not directed at devs, but just curious in and of itself);
I'm wondering how classes will be handled. Whether you'll pick one to stick with during character creation (which I doubt as it wouldn't make for very good in-game balance) or it will be like Planetside 2 with being able to swap classes and loadouts before deployment, which would seem more suitable to what this game hopes to accomplish, in my perspective.
I'm really in love with the apparent dev decision to avoid endgame and its duplicitous effects on what is, up until then, a good game (in my opinion from experience). Though I feel it will be challenging avoid inadvertently creating an endgame from certain objectives one wants to complete (such as attaining unlockable classes with all "endgame" players using them only).
[I'll be using Space Marines as my main source of examples for the purposes of this post]
This brings up my thoughts on how some advanced and desirable classes will be handled (e.g, for Space Marines, Apothecary/Techmarine to Librarian/Chaplain to Terminator and Dreadnought). I assume most would agree we want to limit these being seen en masse on the battlefield, either through timers/requisition to level/experience requirements.
I personally feel that although classes that serve a distinctly crucial purpose like the Apothecary/Techmarine are more limited in lore, they should be allowed to be used more openly in-game. I would suggest that the Apothecary/Techmarine/Librarian/Chaplain (and equivalent classes across the races) be dialed down heavily in terms of combat ability in exchange for excellent supportive capability.
As an example, a member of the group I belong to (Vigilia Mortis) named Niketas Rocas put forth this,
"Techmarine: Support for the Ranged classes and vehicles. Repair vehicles and deploy ammo. Large support ability. Able to place turrets that can be manned. Few anti tank/infantry "area of denial" abilities such as mines perhaps but mostly a ranged class.
Apothecary: Support for all classes. Healing and reviving(BASED ON CERTAIN SITUATIONS!). A neat system would be something like this.
Tactical Marine dies and is unreviveable (tank shell to the face, chain sword to the head etc etc, certain strikes and hits outright kill while some incapacitate. Such level of mechanic is still brainstorming in my head). Lets say Tactical Marine has a 30 second respawn. Apothecary gets to dead Tactical and "revives" (I.E. extracts gene seed) the Tactical which shortens his respawn timer. DURING THIS the Apothecary is very vulnerable. PERHAPS to make it more challenging that just LOL HOLD BUTTON perhaps...a minigame of sorts (NO QTE)
Librarian: "Eyes and Ears" so to speak. Ability to locate enemies (Like a UAV of sorts...I would love to see a Librarian floating around the battlefield while Battle Brothers shout OUR LIBRARIAN IS ONLINE!). His abilities have the power to "bolster" team mates and wreck havoc on enemies I think. It's a very grey area on how they will work and how Psyker powers in general will role."
I would also like the Librarian to have a really close-range detection radius of a few meters (to root our pesky Eldar and the like). I also agree with quotheraving's post in this thread about avoiding dedicated healer classes. In the case of the Apothecary, it is somewhat unavoidable, but I think it can be balanced effectively.
How the Chaplain would work is a bit elusive to me. I assume his mere presence could project a positive aural buff to nearby troops, with perhaps a few abilities with timers and durations that consist of a recitation of scripture or a short speech. Basically, the Chaplain could be more defencive support with the Librarian being offencive support.
My reason for suggesting this is because I, personally, really want to play these classes extensively, and preferably without any restriction, but I don't want to be one of thousands of Apothecaries/Chaplains running around as too many support "chiefs" without the combat class "indians" to actually support. That is why I suppose making them very weak in combat so that it will deter more/most people from playing them who want to be viable in battle.
As for Terminators, I suggest they simply be used as MAXes do in Planetside 2, just way more restricted. The Dreadnought is tricky for its mechanics, but I'd basically like a mechanic included to reflect the permanence of the use of it. Perhaps any player who has unlocked it can only use it once per campaign?
Regarding grouping and command structures, I hope we'll at least have most of the tools provided in Planetside 2, but hopefully some more (and more added down the road). I really enjoy coordinating a large force in PS2, but I feel there could be some more tools to make it more interesting. As I find myself not doing much fighting as a Platoon Leader in PS2, I would love if there was some deeper mechanics for field command and strategic planning. I quite like quotheraving's post linked here. Not so much the latter part about server shuffles, as I think that messes with the sense of community and rivalry between player groups in opposing factions. It would be better to just not allow one to play on different factions on the same server.
One of my greatest hopes for this game is a suitably awesome and decked out map system. Little gets me as giddy as seeing animated map systems in the various Warhammer video games. Being able to manipulate one personally is a fantasy of mine.
On the topic of grouping, on of my biggest wishes is to be able to field a fully company as a single group online (up to 10 men per squad including Sergeant forming up to 10 squads totalling maximum of 101 players including commanding officer). The four squad limit in PS2 isn't enough for coordinating the kind of large scenarios I wished I could.
On vehicles (air/ground), I'd love if they included all the armour from TT with their viable variants (perhaps even chapter-specific ones down the road!) as unlockable specializations through credits, or whatever we'll be using equivalent to certs from PS2.
Moving onto things I don't want:
Hi there, my suggestion for the game would be following (dunno if it has been mentioned or discussed before):
Let our character grow in power - I would like very much to see some kind of levels/char progression in the game. I know, you have probably discarded this idea already, but consider it again. I am not asking traditional leveling systems in classic MMOs, but in my opinion, long term character progression adds a lot of purpose to the game in the long run. I believe, that you don't want to see old characters being overpowered against the newly created ones, even few years into the game's life span. And because I really love the achievement feeling that comes with gaining new levels in a game, I would propose this system.
1) add A LOT of levels, in my example ill use 100 levels system. For us, level-o-holics, the more, the better....sooo, you could use just 10 tiers/levels, but why not cut their gains and bonuses by ten and have 100 levels?!!
2) each level will give you an advantage of 0.1 % - so in total maxed out character will have 10 % advantage compared to brand new one. That would, in my view, be also friendly with the lore, suggesting, we all start as new recruits of our chapter/clan/warbands and will be basically gaining experience as new soldiers of our selected factions. And it wouldn't be so disqualifying for new players in this MMO action combat game
3) treat different fighting styles separately in level progression - if you are shooting with bolter, your bolter skill will gain levels, a vice versa if you are using you power fist
4) after gaining a new level with your weapon, you can designate the 0.1 % gain to certain weapon-dependent characteristics. For bolter, it could be accuracy, crit. chance, reload time, etc.
5) make the system really long time goal oriented. To raise from level 99 to 100 in bolter skill should require to kill like enemy 1000 players with bolter fire
6) add one level progression with some passive bonuses for your selected class (tactical, assault, devastator marine...) and another passive one for your faction passives (SM, CSM, Eldar, Ork)
The game is shaping very nice so far, 2015 couldn't come soon enough!
W.
hm i cant imagine a stun in this game
maybe a knockdown by explosion sounds very likly (and i think was already confirmed in some way) and maybe a slow by surpressing (like in DoW)
but silence and stun like in other MMOs just dont fit in a third person shooter
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I agree with this statement 100%. I have been stunned, sapped, and worse in WoW way to many times by trixy little rogues... But it all changes when I get my DK right up their faces ):3
I realy curious how the banshees gona be implemented, are they gona slow down units(like in TT reduce initative) or gona stun(like in fluff)?
having them stuning enemies and beeing melee experts would make them unkillable in closecombat unless you are double in numbers that they cant stun all
"war isnt fair", true but who wants to fight someone who you cant beat?
slowing could be more possible but maybe less useful in a direct hand to hand combat when the enemy isnt running away
maybe make a mix of both?
if the banshee managed to hit the head with the stun, the enemy gets stunned, if he hits something else he just gets slowed
therefor the stun have to be something like a beam with a not to small diameter so its not to hard to hit the small heads on the big bodys
for orks the "beam" should need to hit the "brain section" of the head, cause they have much bigger heads and it would be to easy target
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I would like to hear some more opinions to the suppressing (slow) CC idea
I imagine it this way:
All players have a bar in their HUB the "suppressing-bar".
(terminator-like classes do not have one)
To bring the bar to zero would always require more then a single automatic weapon (unless it does not need to reload or cooldown, heavy bolter for example)
Because the bar always fills itself at decent speed unless it hits zero, then it needs 2-3secs without any enemy bullets flying across the "suppressing-area" to regenerate
The "suppressing-area":
All players have an area around them the "suppressing-area" (cylinder shape)
When an enemy bullet flies through/hits the ground of your "s-area", your "s-bar" loses energy
If the "s-bar" is empty your character is forced to crouch and is slower then usual (like in DoW)
Then some things would help you to minimize the losing-rate of your "s-bar":
Cover between you and the enemy, teammates at your side, maybe smoke from smoke grenades too.
But the enemy could improve the losing-rate:
The more enemies shot at your "s-area" and the closer the enemy is the faster your "s-bar" falls
Then different weapon-types do more or less "s-bar" damage, the general rule could be "the bigger the bullet the more suppressions"
That would mean that eldar weapons would have the lowest suppressions per shot but they have a high firerate (maybe the highest)
SM/CSM would have the highest suppressions per shot but slower firerate
Orks would be the middle way but they have more mates and maybe unlimited ammo
Would love to hear some opinions
uha Q ninjad me :O i needed over 45 min for that 2 posts >.<
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I'd like guild sizes to be 1k.
Recreating the Ultramarine chapter would be nice.
ok here is how i believe classes should work, using vanilla marines as a baseline
1. pick chapter - design char - choose class
2. each class has weapon types and a special type of ability or "class specific" you can say the classes would be: librarian, tech, apothecary, and standard.
3. standard marines class ability is to have the several variants playable (assault, tactical and devistator)
librarians get a psyker bar and abilities of course
tech should get a resource bar, say 10 cogs, and each crafted skill, like a turret or a small wall for cover cost set points and are slowly refunded when they are destroyed.
apoths can maybe get a second variant of chaplain as well, so we can have the whole gang, one healer for the body, on for the mind (some light buffs from the chap, think chosen from WAR)
4. all classes start with chain swordolt pistol but weapon certs are bought with resources and vary by class. based mostly on 1 or 2 handed, with some exceptions.
assaults get 1 or 2 handed melee and 1h ranged, tacs can get a 2h melee or ranged, but gets 1h of the opposite, devs get their unique heavies and a combat dagger.
librarians get 1 or 2h force wep and a pistol
techs same as assault
apoths get 2h ranged and their drill for melee
then we can throw some wargear slots for levels or what have you.
Well that sorta is and isn't canon. Space Marines themselves don't keep the records, the human serfs that serve them do. They inscribe everything to what battles they fought, to where they fought, how many enemy heads were collected, to how long it took the Chapter Master to take a dump.
Actually I think a Librarium would also be a nice way of keeping track of player's achievements in game, how many enemies slain, forts captured, etc. This can be applied to both the player, the 'company' he is part of, and the Chapter within the faction as a whole.
Orks do have a written language, but they don't use it to keep history. Language is just for giving orders and carving insults on the bathroom wall. Orks keep the history of their clan alive though the storytellers(smartboyz)
Dreah I'm yunk, wazzit matter to you?
I hope terminator armor feels like terminator armor.
not all chapters abide by that
just to name one, SWs do not, and they are one of the starting chapters
also, the other 3 sides dont have to suffer such restriction. CSM are essentially first founding legions, their numbers could be anything. orks are horde. and craftworlds are certainly bigger than 1000.
If we get flying units at some point, It would be really funny if you'd be able to do a barrel roll::):):)
But anyway, for flying unit controls I suggest that the dev team should take a look at War Thunder. It's an airplane simulator and many people like the way how the airplanes in that game handle with keyboard+mouse.
My take on the crafting system, that would not only be useful, fun, stick to the lore (more or less), but especially played an important role in social interaction within the game factions and will be also important from the strategic point of view (I will use SMs in this example, but it could be easily adapted to other factions):
- No Space Marine will ever craft himself, it is the work for chapter serfs. So, as you progress though the ranks/levels/tiers you will gain more and more serfs at your disposal. I imagine starting with one, ending up with 5 in top level senior status.
- as you progress, the crafting trees and possibilities will start opening up. Probably begining with customizing the color, appearance of your armor, sticking the right purity seals and honor badges, cleaning your bolter etc. Crafting will run in realtime and will continue if you log out. Basicly you just order your serf to do this work for you and go to sleep/war...
- now comes the important social aspect of this crafting system. You will be able to redirect the availability of your serfs work to different levels of game faction organization - squad level, strike force level, whole faction level. And each level authorities will be able to use this workforce to craft important assets for the given level of organization.
For example: you have 2 serfs at your disposal. You can order one to clean your armor for the next 6 hours (and you get some minor bonus for 20 minutes the next time you log in), and let the second serf work for your squad leader. He desides, that your squad needs a new training room in the spaceship, and this will need some resources + 20 days of work. He has 5 serfs available from you and your squadmates, so you can have your new training room ready in 4 days (realtime).
- more important for your war effort will be the crafting done on strike force and whole-faction levels. I imagine the serfs working on these levels could be used to craft: special ammunition, prepare dreadnaught and terminator armors for deployment, craft advanced defence turets that can be spawn on conquested bases/POIs, prepare orbital bombardment strikes etc.
some explanation: ammo - normal bolter ammo will be always available, if you want to use kraken/hellfire etc, you have to craft it first. Same goes with spawning the dreadnaught (i know its against the lore and I am rather negative to allowing players to play as dreadnaught, but it will be probably in the game, nevertheless) - yes, you will need the resources pooled from all your squad mates or strike force mates to spawn one, yes you will need the right certification/level requirements, but you will also need to spend the serf work for properly rites of awakening (or whats not).
Same goes with spawning the automated defence turrets on conquested base. The basic version will be free (heavy bolter), if you want plasma turrets, laser, multimelta etc. you have to craft them first.
- applying these different organization level crafts will play an important factor in cooperation of the players. It will depend very much in what squad and strike force you will be. Will you have loyal and organized co-players? Players who will provide enough of their serfs to work for the strike force? Will you have caring leadership, that will prepare for your war effort with stocking enough ammo, tanks, teleport pulses, terminator armors, advance turret weapons?
- tactical decisions will also come into consideration with this crafting system. Something like, should we launch our offensive now, or wait few more hours untill will we prepare and stock enough weapons to be successfull. Or deliberatedly deplete the enemy strike forces stocks of heavy weapon turrets and then overrun their fortress with heavy armor, and so on, and so forth
What do you think, guys? Have crafting been discussed before, I couldnt find it?
W.
I need make mention that this is not entirely the case, in terms of crafting for Space Marines. Salamanders are reknowned throughout the Imperium for their individual crafting abilities - that's why so much of their equipment is labeled as Master Crafted. Arjac Rockfist is a Space Wolf, who hammers out swords on a daily basis, mostly to pass the time. He makes priceless weapons, then destroys them out of boredom.
Plenty of Space Marines have crafted their own close combat weapons. Uriel Ventris, Captain of the 4th company of Ultramarines, smithied his own sword after the previous one broke in battle. Most ranged weapons, like Bolters, Lasguns/Cannons, etc. are mostly made on forge worlds. Melee weapons, however, are an entirely different story.
If crafting were to be made available, it should be for buff items and melee weapons only - guns, armor, these items are too complicated. Terminator Armor takes decades to make, but a keen sword is well within the realm of possibility. Also, item upgrades. Swapping out firing pins, installing new improved barrels, better firing mechanisms - this I can get behind. I say let us make bladed weapons and totems/scrolls/runic items, stat buffers and the like.
Needing is Wanting...
Wanting is Coveting...
Coveting is Sinning...
I am SO going to Hell.
Yes, Salamanders...
make these the ultra tough bastards of 40k, nobody should be eligible to play a Salamander before a 10k killcount...;)
I best get destroying the Emperor's foes and all those nasty nasty Xenos quickly then......
Crafting has been spoken to in depth on the official forums. It is not a very popular topic among EC fans. The crafting as it has been described by the dev team is about as far as any one wants to go.
Make sure and check the official forums guys.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
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