I'm sorry no game should be obligated to provide enough content to keep someone who plays so excessively entertained for eternity. At least not for $13 a month.
I think you need to try playing some other games if you really have that much free time.
It's common lately to find that, when someone mentions that they've reached the end of a game and are growing bored with it, the immediate response from many is to assume the individual raced through it. It certainly isn't limited to FFXIV.
Thing is, with MMOs these days, that's not necessarily a safe bet. The way most MMOs are designed these days - the standard "accessible, soloable themepark" design - it sometimes requires more effort to not level quickly than it does to level quickly.
I've run into that problem many times in numerous such MMOs. I find myself leveling far faster than I want to, to the point that if I pick up a series of quests that are all slightly over my level when I accept them, they're falling into the "too easy" category before I've started the last few, and whatever new quests I haven't taken on are already well below my level.
Now, you'll see arguments people make. "Well, stop leveling so much. Take a break. Do other things. Explore. Craft", etc.
Problem is, what if none of that other stuff appeals to someone, at least for that period of time? What if they're really folded into the storyline, or the process of questing, are on a roll and don't want to break the flow they've got going? They're enjoying what they're doing, so they're certainly not "playing wrong", right?
If I have to pretty much force myself to stop doing something I want to do, and do something else I likely don't... just so I can side-step and avoid the rapid level progression racing me through the game, well that doesn't seem like a particularly ideal scenario to me.
My point is, if someone has to take a break from what they're doing only to slow things down, then that'sreally only evidence of the problem; it's not a counter against it.
And so, I think people should really relax on jumping to the conclusion that anyone stating they have one job at 50 - or even a few by now - are automatically "racing through the game". It's not even necessary to rush through a MMO these days to achieve that. You just have to continue partaking in an activity you enjoy - or at least find ideal for whatever your goals are.
It's notable that in most every case I see of people saying they haven't reached end-game yet, they're saying that they're mixing their time up doing other things. And tha'ts fine. That works for them. But they're also not playing the game any more "right" than someone who continuously does questing, or any other activity, because it happens to be something they really enjoy.
And again, this doesn't only go for XIV. This goes for pretty much any modern/theme-park type MMO these days.
I guess I'm just suggesting that people stop and think about that before dismissing someone as having "raced through the game". It's not necessarily so cut-and-dry, and the design of most modern MMOs makes it rather easy to do.
Serious question, how many hours a day do you play? 5 50s? Geez, that's a lot of gaming hours...
And if you play that many hours, you're probably going to want a sandbox game, not a themepark like this one. You'll never, ever find a themepark game that can satisfy this amount of hours. It's just impossible.
Some people think 8 hours a day is casual or even moderate. I'm sorry anything more than say 3 hours a day max is more than average. That's a part time job.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Some people think 8 hours a day is casual or even moderate. I'm sorry anything more than say 3 hours a day max is more than average. That's a part time job.
For some people (and I've known a few), it's really the only entertainment or social interaction they can have. Life circmstances can be rather limiting, cutting one's options for recreation quite short, with tons of time to partake in it.
You exhaust everything the game has to offer or outright skip most of it, and as the result you become bored of the game.
Really, there's nothing wrong with this.
FFXIV (or any MMO, really) is only a fast-food themepark experience if you make it one.
I would agree that most, if not all of the themepark MMOs released post 2007 fall into this, simply because the company in question chose to do it this way. Streamlining the game, making the game easier to get to cap, making content easier overall, making some aspects of the game single player, etc. You can't say that about AAA MMOs prior to 2007 though. In each of those games that made it so easy to get 99% of everything in a month or less usually bled subs like no other.
From what I have seen from so many official forums, this is easily one of the top three reasons as to why people leave those games. I think Yoshi made what I would call MMO mistake 101... well maybe 102. It is a very basic mistake that has been made over and over and over again in the past 5-6 years. Now I'm not saying that content should be gated/grinded like in EverQuest, EVE Online, FFXI, Lineage I and II (all Vanilla of course)... but at the same time you just can't do a 180 and give the option where players can obtain and experience 99% of the game within a month, or two max.
There is no longevity in it. Almost every game released post 2007 suffers from this to some extent, and got worse as the years went by. In almost every case you ended up seeing server merges of up to 80% or more, or games going F2P. Like I made a thread in the past (and posted before) there are only 3 games released post 2006 that exclusively use the P2P model. They should of honestly picked a happy medium… not to this extent, but neither the Vanilla of yesteryears.
You exhaust everything the game has to offer or outright skip most of it, and as the result you become bored of the game.
Really, there's nothing wrong with this.
FFXIV (or any MMO, really) is only a fast-food themepark experience if you make it one.
I would agree that most, if not all of the themepark MMOs released post 2007 fall into this, simply because the company in question chose to do it this way. Streamlining the game, making the game easier to get to cap, making content easier overall, making some aspects of the game single player, etc. You can't say that about AAA MMOs prior to 2007 though. In each of those games that made it so easy to get 99% of everything in a month or less usually bled subs like no other.
From what I have seen from so many official forums, this is easily one of the top three reasons as to why people leave those games. I think Yoshi made what I would call MMO mistake 101... well maybe 102. It is a very basic mistake that has been made over and over and over again in the past 5-6 years. Now I'm not saying that content should be gated/grinded like in EverQuest, EVE Online, FFXI, Lineage I and II (all Vanilla of course)... but at the same time you just can't do a 180 and give the option where players can obtain and experience 99% of the game within a month, or two max.
There is no longevity in it. Almost every game released post 2007 suffers from this to some extent, and got worse as the years went by. In almost every case you ended up seeing server merges of up to 80% or more, or games going F2P. Like I made a thread in the past (and posted before) there are only 3 games released post 2006 that exclusively use the P2P model. They should of honestly picked a happy medium… not to this extent, but neither the Vanilla of yesteryears.
Your mistake is calling it a mistake. It is a natural progression and there is nothing to "suffer" from.
Every single design choice and the logic behind it can be opened up and followed to its roots. Each have their pro's and con's, yet undeniably less cons for the vast majority of the demographic that make it the right design choice to implement in the game.
Too bad this forum is the worst place to open that can of worms. This is just a bunch of old veterans being in complete denial. You can't have a proper discussion in that kind of environment.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Yesterday I was a Lv 35 almost Lv 36 playing Vanilla WoW. I did the chain quest for Scarlet Monastery In Dosolice, then ran with one group doing the Armory, then Cathedral, but I still needed to do the Library. So I waited in Scarlet Monastery and found another group ( got a group in about 15 min. ). We ran the Cathedral, they helped me with the Library and we decided to run the Cathedral again....
THE POINT IS :
I played well over six hours of epic content, and went from late level 35 to the beginning of level 37. ALL day for barely over one level. Now this game dates back to 2003 !...This is content !
Yesterday I was a Lv 35 almost Lv 36 playing Vanilla WoW. I did the chain quest for Scarlet Monastery In Dosolice, then ran with one group doing the Armory, then Cathedral, but I still needed to do the Library. So I waited in Scarlet Monastery and found another group ( got a group in about 15 min. ). We ran the Cathedral, they helped me with the Library and we decided to run the Cathedral again....
THE POINT IS :
I played well over six hours of epic content, and went from late level 35 to the beginning of level 37. ALL day for barely over one level. Now this game dates back to 2003 !...This is content !
Meanwhile the majority got to level 60 within a month and camped Ironforge (for example) calling for someone with a key to UBRS.
Point is, it's entirely down to how you play. Many aren't rushing to "end game" in FF XIV either. It's mostly the WoW crowd (ironically). Who are used to rushing due to being conditioned into gear grinding, and linear content.
Even more ironic, given the post, the WoW raiding guild I'm a a member of, is drifting towards Playing FF XIV more due to it being less linear and has more substance.
Yesterday I was a Lv 35 almost Lv 36 playing Vanilla WoW. I did the chain quest for Scarlet Monastery In Dosolice, then ran with one group doing the Armory, then Cathedral, but I still needed to do the Library. So I waited in Scarlet Monastery and found another group ( got a group in about 15 min. ). We ran the Cathedral, they helped me with the Library and we decided to run the Cathedral again....
THE POINT IS :
I played well over six hours of epic content, and went from late level 35 to the beginning of level 37. ALL day for barely over one level. Now this game dates back to 2003 !...This is content !
Meanwhile the majority got to level 60 within a month and camped Ironforge (for example) calling for someone with a key to UBRS.
Point is, it's entirely down to how you play. Many aren't rushing to "end game" in FF XIV either. It's mostly the WoW crowd (ironically). Who are used to rushing due to being conditioned into gear grinding, and linear content.
If I were lv 35 in FF14. I would run Brayfox Dungeon one time and do three Faits and be level 36 ....This would take me ONE HOUR !
Yesterday I was a Lv 35 almost Lv 36 playing Vanilla WoW. I did the chain quest for Scarlet Monastery In Dosolice, then ran with one group doing the Armory, then Cathedral, but I still needed to do the Library. So I waited in Scarlet Monastery and found another group ( got a group in about 15 min. ). We ran the Cathedral, they helped me with the Library and we decided to run the Cathedral again....
THE POINT IS :
I played well over six hours of epic content, and went from late level 35 to the beginning of level 37. ALL day for barely over one level. Now this game dates back to 2003 !...This is content !
Meanwhile the majority got to level 60 within a month and camped Ironforge (for example) calling for someone with a key to UBRS.
Point is, it's entirely down to how you play. Many aren't rushing to "end game" in FF XIV either. It's mostly the WoW crowd (ironically). Who are used to rushing due to being conditioned into gear grinding, and linear content.
If I were lv 35 in FF14. I would run Brayfox Dungeon one time and do three Faits and be level 36 ....This would take me ONE HOUR !
Wayyyyy less content in FF14 !
Linear thinking and you'd get from 35 to 36 is way less time, with no other alternative content, in WoW. That's the thing with FF XiV, one doesn't have to simply focus on progressing a single class.
Anyway regarding people complaining about being able to reach 50 fast, I remember a game that tried to slow it down a little (Aion) and people complained it was grindy...
There's no right or wrong someone will complain regardless.
Anyway regarding people complaining about being able to reach 50 fast, I remember a game that tried to slow it down a little (Aion) and people complained it was grindy...
There's no right or wrong someone will complain regardless.
Isnt bull at all. WoW has always had extremely fast leveling. The difference in vanilla was people explored, as it was new.
Anyway regarding people complaining about being able to reach 50 fast, I remember a game that tried to slow it down a little (Aion) and people complained it was grindy...
There's no right or wrong someone will complain regardless.
Didnt say it was bad, but don't complain if one decides to skip most of the content because that's all they are focusing on. One didn't have to and many others aren't.
well i am logging in now casually once a week for raid purposes , other then that, I am also on the boat of waiting for 2.1. I hate doing PvE full time and would love to mix with pvp and other stuff which is all in 2.1. the game still have big potential and is on the right track, but I think 2.1 is where I should consider the game complete with essential features. 2.3 though which is further down the line is where I think the game will have another milestones with new jobs and frontline seiges and will bring many players back to be very active.
I would agree that most, if not all of the themepark MMOs released post 2007 fall into this, simply because the company in question chose to do it this way. Streamlining the game, making the game easier to get to cap, making content easier overall, making some aspects of the game single player, etc. You can't say that about AAA MMOs prior to 2007 though. In each of those games that made it so easy to get 99% of everything in a month or less usually bled subs like no other.
From what I have seen from so many official forums, this is easily one of the top three reasons as to why people leave those games. I think Yoshi made what I would call MMO mistake 101... well maybe 102. It is a very basic mistake that has been made over and over and over again in the past 5-6 years. Now I'm not saying that content should be gated/grinded like in EverQuest, EVE Online, FFXI, Lineage I and II (all Vanilla of course)... but at the same time you just can't do a 180 and give the option where players can obtain and experience 99% of the game within a month, or two max.
There is no longevity in it. Almost every game released post 2007 suffers from this to some extent, and got worse as the years went by. In almost every case you ended up seeing server merges of up to 80% or more, or games going F2P. Like I made a thread in the past (and posted before) there are only 3 games released post 2006 that exclusively use the P2P model. They should of honestly picked a happy medium… not to this extent, but neither the Vanilla of yesteryears.
Your mistake is calling it a mistake. It is a natural progression and there is nothing to "suffer" from.
Every single design choice and the logic behind it can be opened up and followed to its roots. Each have their pro's and con's, yet undeniably less cons for the vast majority of the demographic that make it the right design choice to implement in the game.
Too bad this forum is the worst place to open that can of worms. This is just a bunch of old veterans being in complete denial. You can't have a proper discussion in that kind of environment.
You're equivocating. You're making a lot of vague assertions, but provide no specifics to illustrate what you mean. AmbrosiaAmor's arguments are quite specific and are actually backed by statements that have been demonstrably true.
Older MMOs that weren't designed with so much streamlining, soloability or ease of progression held players and kept them entertained much, much longer.
The problem Ambrosia's describing has ultimately led to a number of MMOs going F2P after their first months because there simply wasn't enough to keep people interested once theygot to the very easily reached level cap and/or end-game (not everyone is interested in end-game after all). Some have been shut down altogether, particularly prior to F2P becoming a viable "life-jacket" to fall back on. Those that remained P2P have limped along (see: Warhammer Online).
The evidence for this is all there, in forums and discussions and news stories around each game, going back several years at this point. You could almost write a script for how these MMOs will go, it's become so repetitive and predictable.
The problem has been addressed even by industry people. John Smedley has gone on record as stating that they scrapped EQ-Next's first two designs, because they realized what they were doing was just more of the same, no different than what's already out there. They realized that MMOs designed entirely around quest-driven content, delivered by designers/developers, are unsustainable. There's simply no way for the designers/developers to keep up with the pace at which players can churn through content. Other developers are coming to this same realization, as well.
This is the model Yoshi-P chose to follow for ARR and, demonstrably, it's proving to not be enough. Weeks away from a major content update, and even people in ARR who aren't trying to race to the level cap are getting there and finding a shortage of thingsto do that interests them (italics added for emphasis).
I emphasize that last bit because the common response to someone saying they've run out of things to do, is to hit them with a laundry list of "did you do...?" items, which is typically nothing more than a blatant attempt to discredit the poster and dismiss their remarks. Like so many such arguments, it sounds like a solid argument, until you apply some critical thinking to it. To say someone's not allowed to feel the game has nothing else for them because they haven't done "x, y and z" is just weak. They may not be at all interested in X, Y or Z. Asking if they've done those things is like asking someone who doesn't like seafood if they've tried the Sea Bass or Ahi Tuna when they've remarked about the menu being limited.
By comparison, there were tons of things I wasn't interested in when I played Anarchy Online, FFXI, DAoC and myriad other old-school MMOs, even when they were newer and didn't have years of content. Still, I never ran out of things to do that did interest me. That is largely because those games were not designed to be raced through. They did not have a ton of hand-holding. They did not make progression a trivial, almost mindless task. They were created as long-term, self-contained hobbies. Not short-term, "finish it and move on" affairs, such as most newer MMOs of the past several years have been.
Going back to John Smedley and SOE, this is what led to EQ-Next's approach changing over to a more sandbox approach, where, while there will be quest content for people to complete, it's gameplay systems that will keep players engaged long-term. Things that are based around some common core ideas, but that are always changing and never the same experience. The idea of letting the player have a direct impact on the world around them is very compelling and demonstrably has far more lasting power.
Eve Online has flourished and continued to grow more popular year after year, almost entirely due to the systems it implements in its gameplay. A universe that is largely up for grabs and contestable by the players. There's always something of value to be won, or lost, or attained... so players are continuously competing over it. Things can be built and destroyed. Obtained, and lost. Corporations can be built up to super-powers, only to be infiltrated and destroyed from the inside-out. It's a dynamic that no standard theme-park MMO could ever hope to achieve, and it keeps people coming back and sticking it out for the long term.
Now, before someone attempts to dismiss my Eve example by pointing to Eve's gameplay style, or the real-time training, etc. etc... Don't bother. I'm not talking about Eve's progression system. I'm talking about the type of more dynamic player-driven content Eve presents, as compared to static quest or script-driven content of a typical themepark.
The industry is beginning to move away from the strictly theme-park, content-driven progression MMO model. I think it's going to take one or two big MMOs to successfully pave the way for it to take off (just as F2P/Cash Shops were met with overwhelming resistance in the Western market until a few larger Western developers embraced it and showed that it was "okay" to do). But it's going to happen.
Themepark MMO hasn't been a mistake all along, as it was a viable and solid model for several years. However, it's just about run its course, the market is saturated with them, and there's not a whole lot of difference between most of them. Same concepts, same basic gameplay, just a different skin and a couple unique gimmicks. To create yet another themepark and to try drinking from that well yet again at this point, I would argue, is a mistake. The writing is on the wall.
Originally posted by flizzer This is ridiculous. I don't see anyting in this game to justify a sub. But I have to say spending so much time in the game and then complaining you are bored, really? There is no game that would satisfy this poster considering how he lives in these games. I can't blame the game on this one.
don't blame the player. He liked the game, so he played. When I first started WoW I was fortunate enough to play like OP. I did not lose interest. I've been fortunate enough to play Wushu like that, I have not lost interest.
I tried to play Swtor like that. I lost interest. I tried TSW like that. I lost interest. I tried to play GW2 like that, I lost Interest. There was not enough to these games. They are missing something. TSW was great for 4 months. I loved GW2 for 3 weeks.
Don't blame the player when the game only offers questing, dungeons, battle grounds, and capped progression. Flashy lights and great graphics can only last so long. I 100% blame the developer for using tired, old systems. I blame them for starting mmorpgs 3-5 years ago based on what was hot then, with no regard for what things will be.
As much as OP has played I would be needing a break as well. Says nothing bad about the game. If you claim there is not enough content you are not fooling anyone that knows the game.
Originally posted by flizzer This is ridiculous. I don't see anyting in this game to justify a sub. But I have to say spending so much time in the game and then complaining you are bored, really? There is no game that would satisfy this poster considering how he lives in these games. I can't blame the game on this one.
don't blame the player. He liked the game, so he played. When I first started WoW I was fortunate enough to play like OP. I did not lose interest. I've been fortunate enough to play Wushu like that, I have not lost interest.
I tried to play Swtor like that. I lost interest. I tried TSW like that. I lost interest. I tried to play GW2 like that, I lost Interest. There was not enough to these games. They are missing something. TSW was great for 4 months. I loved GW2 for 3 weeks.
Don't blame the player when the game only offers questing, dungeons, battle grounds, and capped progression. Flashy lights and great graphics can only last so long. I 100% blame the developer for using tired, old systems. I blame them for starting mmorpgs 3-5 years ago based on what was hot then, with no regard for what things will be.
If what you called old tired systems out dated and lazzy developers crutch. Then you should stop MMOing. Because you praise WoW in the same breath and all they did was recycle what worked with past MMOs. Its rare to find something new and uniqe. I have been gaming for over 30 years and I can count the times I have been blown away by something rare and unique.
Comments
I think you need to try playing some other games if you really have that much free time.
Just an opportunist.
It took me more than a MONTH to level 1 class to 46.
And you have 5 50's?! How dafuq?! O_O
(Stares in silent amazement) Is that legal? I call haxx!
It's common lately to find that, when someone mentions that they've reached the end of a game and are growing bored with it, the immediate response from many is to assume the individual raced through it. It certainly isn't limited to FFXIV.
Thing is, with MMOs these days, that's not necessarily a safe bet. The way most MMOs are designed these days - the standard "accessible, soloable themepark" design - it sometimes requires more effort to not level quickly than it does to level quickly.
I've run into that problem many times in numerous such MMOs. I find myself leveling far faster than I want to, to the point that if I pick up a series of quests that are all slightly over my level when I accept them, they're falling into the "too easy" category before I've started the last few, and whatever new quests I haven't taken on are already well below my level.
Now, you'll see arguments people make. "Well, stop leveling so much. Take a break. Do other things. Explore. Craft", etc.
Problem is, what if none of that other stuff appeals to someone, at least for that period of time? What if they're really folded into the storyline, or the process of questing, are on a roll and don't want to break the flow they've got going? They're enjoying what they're doing, so they're certainly not "playing wrong", right?
If I have to pretty much force myself to stop doing something I want to do, and do something else I likely don't... just so I can side-step and avoid the rapid level progression racing me through the game, well that doesn't seem like a particularly ideal scenario to me.
My point is, if someone has to take a break from what they're doing only to slow things down, then that's really only evidence of the problem; it's not a counter against it.
And so, I think people should really relax on jumping to the conclusion that anyone stating they have one job at 50 - or even a few by now - are automatically "racing through the game". It's not even necessary to rush through a MMO these days to achieve that. You just have to continue partaking in an activity you enjoy - or at least find ideal for whatever your goals are.
It's notable that in most every case I see of people saying they haven't reached end-game yet, they're saying that they're mixing their time up doing other things. And tha'ts fine. That works for them. But they're also not playing the game any more "right" than someone who continuously does questing, or any other activity, because it happens to be something they really enjoy.
And again, this doesn't only go for XIV. This goes for pretty much any modern/theme-park type MMO these days.
I guess I'm just suggesting that people stop and think about that before dismissing someone as having "raced through the game". It's not necessarily so cut-and-dry, and the design of most modern MMOs makes it rather easy to do.
Serious question, how many hours a day do you play? 5 50s? Geez, that's a lot of gaming hours...
And if you play that many hours, you're probably going to want a sandbox game, not a themepark like this one. You'll never, ever find a themepark game that can satisfy this amount of hours. It's just impossible.
Since 90% of people probably didn't read my first reply I'll just post this...
ITT 80% of the people don't understand how easy/fast it is to level after your first 50.
including in this 80% are people who don't get how many people are @ endgame, and just how limited it is.
For some people (and I've known a few), it's really the only entertainment or social interaction they can have. Life circmstances can be rather limiting, cutting one's options for recreation quite short, with tons of time to partake in it.
I would agree that most, if not all of the themepark MMOs released post 2007 fall into this, simply because the company in question chose to do it this way. Streamlining the game, making the game easier to get to cap, making content easier overall, making some aspects of the game single player, etc. You can't say that about AAA MMOs prior to 2007 though. In each of those games that made it so easy to get 99% of everything in a month or less usually bled subs like no other.
From what I have seen from so many official forums, this is easily one of the top three reasons as to why people leave those games. I think Yoshi made what I would call MMO mistake 101... well maybe 102. It is a very basic mistake that has been made over and over and over again in the past 5-6 years. Now I'm not saying that content should be gated/grinded like in EverQuest, EVE Online, FFXI, Lineage I and II (all Vanilla of course)... but at the same time you just can't do a 180 and give the option where players can obtain and experience 99% of the game within a month, or two max.
There is no longevity in it. Almost every game released post 2007 suffers from this to some extent, and got worse as the years went by. In almost every case you ended up seeing server merges of up to 80% or more, or games going F2P. Like I made a thread in the past (and posted before) there are only 3 games released post 2006 that exclusively use the P2P model. They should of honestly picked a happy medium… not to this extent, but neither the Vanilla of yesteryears.
Your mistake is calling it a mistake. It is a natural progression and there is nothing to "suffer" from.
Every single design choice and the logic behind it can be opened up and followed to its roots. Each have their pro's and con's, yet undeniably less cons for the vast majority of the demographic that make it the right design choice to implement in the game.
Too bad this forum is the worst place to open that can of worms. This is just a bunch of old veterans being in complete denial. You can't have a proper discussion in that kind of environment.
FF14 IS TOO FAST !
Yesterday I was a Lv 35 almost Lv 36 playing Vanilla WoW. I did the chain quest for Scarlet Monastery In Dosolice, then ran with one group doing the Armory, then Cathedral, but I still needed to do the Library. So I waited in Scarlet Monastery and found another group ( got a group in about 15 min. ). We ran the Cathedral, they helped me with the Library and we decided to run the Cathedral again....
THE POINT IS :
I played well over six hours of epic content, and went from late level 35 to the beginning of level 37. ALL day for barely over one level. Now this game dates back to 2003 !...This is content !
Meanwhile the majority got to level 60 within a month and camped Ironforge (for example) calling for someone with a key to UBRS.
Point is, it's entirely down to how you play. Many aren't rushing to "end game" in FF XIV either. It's mostly the WoW crowd (ironically). Who are used to rushing due to being conditioned into gear grinding, and linear content.
Even more ironic, given the post, the WoW raiding guild I'm a a member of, is drifting towards Playing FF XIV more due to it being less linear and has more substance.
If I were lv 35 in FF14. I would run Brayfox Dungeon one time and do three Faits and be level 36 ....This would take me ONE HOUR !
Wayyyyy less content in FF14 !
Linear thinking and you'd get from 35 to 36 is way less time, with no other alternative content, in WoW. That's the thing with FF XiV, one doesn't have to simply focus on progressing a single class.
in that hour, you could have done. :-
hunting logs
crafting logs
leve
guildleve
fate
duties
dungeons
guildhiest
Grand company content.
@page97
Having another incentive (Exp) instead of doing dungeons only for gear is bad now?
-----------------------------------------------------
Anyway regarding people complaining about being able to reach 50 fast, I remember a game that tried to slow it down a little (Aion) and people complained it was grindy...
There's no right or wrong someone will complain regardless.
Isnt bull at all. WoW has always had extremely fast leveling. The difference in vanilla was people explored, as it was new.
Didnt say it was bad, but don't complain if one decides to skip most of the content because that's all they are focusing on. One didn't have to and many others aren't.
He was talking about FFXIV dungeons not WOW's so I changed my response.
I don't understand what's so bad in being able to gain a level doing a dungeon run.
And I replayed to the wrong person
So had taken your response out of context.
You're equivocating. You're making a lot of vague assertions, but provide no specifics to illustrate what you mean. AmbrosiaAmor's arguments are quite specific and are actually backed by statements that have been demonstrably true.
Older MMOs that weren't designed with so much streamlining, soloability or ease of progression held players and kept them entertained much, much longer.
The problem Ambrosia's describing has ultimately led to a number of MMOs going F2P after their first months because there simply wasn't enough to keep people interested once they got to the very easily reached level cap and/or end-game (not everyone is interested in end-game after all). Some have been shut down altogether, particularly prior to F2P becoming a viable "life-jacket" to fall back on. Those that remained P2P have limped along (see: Warhammer Online).
The evidence for this is all there, in forums and discussions and news stories around each game, going back several years at this point. You could almost write a script for how these MMOs will go, it's become so repetitive and predictable.
The problem has been addressed even by industry people. John Smedley has gone on record as stating that they scrapped EQ-Next's first two designs, because they realized what they were doing was just more of the same, no different than what's already out there. They realized that MMOs designed entirely around quest-driven content, delivered by designers/developers, are unsustainable. There's simply no way for the designers/developers to keep up with the pace at which players can churn through content. Other developers are coming to this same realization, as well.
This is the model Yoshi-P chose to follow for ARR and, demonstrably, it's proving to not be enough. Weeks away from a major content update, and even people in ARR who aren't trying to race to the level cap are getting there and finding a shortage of things to do that interests them (italics added for emphasis).
I emphasize that last bit because the common response to someone saying they've run out of things to do, is to hit them with a laundry list of "did you do...?" items, which is typically nothing more than a blatant attempt to discredit the poster and dismiss their remarks. Like so many such arguments, it sounds like a solid argument, until you apply some critical thinking to it. To say someone's not allowed to feel the game has nothing else for them because they haven't done "x, y and z" is just weak. They may not be at all interested in X, Y or Z. Asking if they've done those things is like asking someone who doesn't like seafood if they've tried the Sea Bass or Ahi Tuna when they've remarked about the menu being limited.
By comparison, there were tons of things I wasn't interested in when I played Anarchy Online, FFXI, DAoC and myriad other old-school MMOs, even when they were newer and didn't have years of content. Still, I never ran out of things to do that did interest me. That is largely because those games were not designed to be raced through. They did not have a ton of hand-holding. They did not make progression a trivial, almost mindless task. They were created as long-term, self-contained hobbies. Not short-term, "finish it and move on" affairs, such as most newer MMOs of the past several years have been.
Going back to John Smedley and SOE, this is what led to EQ-Next's approach changing over to a more sandbox approach, where, while there will be quest content for people to complete, it's gameplay systems that will keep players engaged long-term. Things that are based around some common core ideas, but that are always changing and never the same experience. The idea of letting the player have a direct impact on the world around them is very compelling and demonstrably has far more lasting power.
Eve Online has flourished and continued to grow more popular year after year, almost entirely due to the systems it implements in its gameplay. A universe that is largely up for grabs and contestable by the players. There's always something of value to be won, or lost, or attained... so players are continuously competing over it. Things can be built and destroyed. Obtained, and lost. Corporations can be built up to super-powers, only to be infiltrated and destroyed from the inside-out. It's a dynamic that no standard theme-park MMO could ever hope to achieve, and it keeps people coming back and sticking it out for the long term.
Now, before someone attempts to dismiss my Eve example by pointing to Eve's gameplay style, or the real-time training, etc. etc... Don't bother. I'm not talking about Eve's progression system. I'm talking about the type of more dynamic player-driven content Eve presents, as compared to static quest or script-driven content of a typical themepark.
The industry is beginning to move away from the strictly theme-park, content-driven progression MMO model. I think it's going to take one or two big MMOs to successfully pave the way for it to take off (just as F2P/Cash Shops were met with overwhelming resistance in the Western market until a few larger Western developers embraced it and showed that it was "okay" to do). But it's going to happen.
Themepark MMO hasn't been a mistake all along, as it was a viable and solid model for several years. However, it's just about run its course, the market is saturated with them, and there's not a whole lot of difference between most of them. Same concepts, same basic gameplay, just a different skin and a couple unique gimmicks. To create yet another themepark and to try drinking from that well yet again at this point, I would argue, is a mistake. The writing is on the wall.
don't blame the player. He liked the game, so he played. When I first started WoW I was fortunate enough to play like OP. I did not lose interest. I've been fortunate enough to play Wushu like that, I have not lost interest.
I tried to play Swtor like that. I lost interest. I tried TSW like that. I lost interest. I tried to play GW2 like that, I lost Interest. There was not enough to these games. They are missing something. TSW was great for 4 months. I loved GW2 for 3 weeks.
Don't blame the player when the game only offers questing, dungeons, battle grounds, and capped progression. Flashy lights and great graphics can only last so long. I 100% blame the developer for using tired, old systems. I blame them for starting mmorpgs 3-5 years ago based on what was hot then, with no regard for what things will be.
At least you can say you made those 30 bucks worth.
If what you called old tired systems out dated and lazzy developers crutch. Then you should stop MMOing. Because you praise WoW in the same breath and all they did was recycle what worked with past MMOs. Its rare to find something new and uniqe. I have been gaming for over 30 years and I can count the times I have been blown away by something rare and unique.