I think the comparison is relevant. One feature we see in WoW is that its designed around all these gamers that supposedly have no time. It seems that's because the gamers with time go play League of Legends. Additonally I would wager that the league of legends crowd is much younger then the world of warcraft players.
Basically what has happened to WoW is that the 'addicts' who carried tha game got old and bored - and the new audience that they should have brought in went to league of legends. So to fix this they dumbed down WoW - but it didin't work.
Good for them. The game itself is fun & engaging, and Riot deserves the rewards they're reaping for their hard work. It also has the side effect of attracting some of the most maladjusted little wastes of reproductive cells ever to live upon God's green earth. Make no mistake; I view this as a good thing, since it means there's a large amount of idiots I won't have to deal with in the online games I do play.
Between majority of the LoL & Starcraft 2 communities, I'd say that's 80% of the worst the internet has to offer nicely tied up screaming racial slurs & throwing feces at each other. The 20% or so left are hard enough to deal with as it is, if the aforementioned games ever lost popularity I'd probably just quit the internet forever.
Sure Mobas in general have more concurrent users than wow. I know plenty of people who play them, more than play mmo's. But the reason for that is the fact that they are easy to access, easy to play, and easy to enjoy in small amounts. Easy to play for giant amounts too. It caters to both crowds. They are completely different genres, that might attract to the same communities, but you have to keep in mind that free to play and pay to play are completely different.
I'm sure it is bringing in more revenue than wow as well at this point simply because people love to pay for skins for some reason. I own a few myself, and have purchased RP plenty of times, and even the stingiest of friends I have, have dumped tons of money into league of legends. So I'm positive that they are bringing in quite a bit.
Compare them once wow goes free to play, I know if it did the community size would change, but who knows maybe league would still have more players.
Originally posted by nariusseldon http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/18/league-of-legends-infographic-highlights-eye-popping-numbers70M registered users. Well, you say, do they actually play the game?32.5M daily active users. That is almost half of the 70M register users play daily. That is almost 4x wow's sub numbers, and not every sub player play wow everyday.1.3B hours played a month. Divided by 70M. On average each register user plays 18.6 hours a month.And obviously LoL e-sport is big.The only question is ... whether LoL is making more money than WoW? Since the daily active users is like 4x of the wow sub number, you only need each person (active daily ones, not register user) to spend like $3.75 a month to beat wow's sub revenue.Anyone knows what is the average spent of a LoL user?
That guy Merrel says even if he knew the numbers, he wouldn't tell anyone.
Originally posted by Ujirik League of Legends is a Free to Play game. Of course it has more players but that doesn't mean it's more successful. I highly doubt LoL is more profitable than WoW. Basically, there are a ton of crappy F2P games that can boast about WoW numbers or better but they aren't bringing in as much money. It's only more popular because it doesn't have any fees attached.
If I had to guess I'd say that LoL is currently more profitable than WoW. I have a number of friends who play LoL and I'm sure they've all spent somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple hundred dollars buying champions/skins... and LoL has more than 3x the players.
3x the players right now. wows 12 million subs isn't the total of everyone that ever played the game or subed at one time. It was 12 milllion at that time.
If you consider how many people bought the box+ ex packs and paid subs for years. At 7 million subs that's still $105 mil a month. Just guessing but...I don't think wow has lost it's throne just yet.
then you have to factor in the fact that WoW has simply been around longer. That's why I think it's best to just look at a snapshot at any point in time. That's why I deliberately said "currently more profitable than WoW."
Whether or not WoW has "lost its throne" isn't gonna be decided by another company making more than WoW has in total, it's when another company beats it at all. But even if LoL is more popular than WoW, I don't consider that to be WoW losing its title as top dog because MOBAs simply aren't MMORPGs. They're not even close really.
I'd hazard a guess and say League of Legends is more profitable than WoW, but unless we get concrete data there is no conclusive proof here. Keep in mind that not all of WoW's subs are in the $15 a month category as they count "subs" in internet cafes in places like China towards the total that aren't paying the same payment plans and only play for a few hours each month. League of Legends may have the majority of players playing free, but they also have whales which spend a lot more per month than someone subbed to WoW.
League of Legends probably has to deal with less costs than WoW also. A full featured MMO requires a much larger customer support staff such as GMs. Every expansion they deliver makes them more money of course, but they do lose some of it to distribution costs which for League which is a purely digital game (ignoring the riot point cards and the collector's edition box when the game first released) is very low.
I am curious as to why you bring up a none MMO game comparing popularity with a MMO as a topic in the pub?
There are plenty of other genre of games more populair then WoW.
Does that mean MMO's should take note of those games so that they can become even more just combat oriented online games where rankings and leaderboards rule?
70M registered users. Well, you say, do they actually play the game?
32.5M daily active users. That is almost half of the 70M register users play daily. That is almost 4x wow's sub numbers, and not every sub player play wow everyday.
1.3B hours played a month. Divided by 70M. On average each register user plays 18.6 hours a month.
And obviously LoL e-sport is big.
The only question is ... whether LoL is making more money than WoW? Since the daily active users is like 4x of the wow sub number, you only need each person (active daily ones, not register user) to spend like $3.75 a month to beat wow's sub revenue.
Anyone knows what is the average spent of a LoL user?
I'm really trying to understand why people care how much money or how popular a game is? I don't know, I grew up in an era where we just played games. Some sucked others were awesome with some in between.
I mean when we sat down to play double dragon or street fighter II we didn't talk about what it's budget was or if it was going to fail or not. We just wanted bragging rights.
70M registered users. Well, you say, do they actually play the game?
32.5M daily active users. That is almost half of the 70M register users play daily. That is almost 4x wow's sub numbers, and not every sub player play wow everyday.
1.3B hours played a month. Divided by 70M. On average each register user plays 18.6 hours a month.
And obviously LoL e-sport is big.
The only question is ... whether LoL is making more money than WoW? Since the daily active users is like 4x of the wow sub number, you only need each person (active daily ones, not register user) to spend like $3.75 a month to beat wow's sub revenue.
Anyone knows what is the average spent of a LoL user?
It is funny, isn't it. Although DoTA2 is in more or less any aspect the better game in comparsion to LoL. Gameplay, Cashshop, Tactic, Strategy, Action, Characters, Graphics, Friendlist and Tools. And the blizzard MOBA Hereos of the Storm will be announced this Nov. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eThSo670cas which will be a by far better comparsion.
WoW and LoL comparsion is like apples and courgette. The one is F2P, a MOBA, with a lot less of development cost, and a lot less of annual revenue, the other is a MMORPG, with a extremely high development cost(factor 10 and more), P2P, and a annual revenue like no other game before and after it.
I don't understand why people try to compare games of entirely different genres to one another. Who cares which game is more "popular" than the other? Shut the hell up and play your damn game. Besides it's not as though something being popular makes it a great thing, Glee is massively popular, The Jersey Shore was pretty damn popular. Reality TV in general gets the highest ratings these days, but I'm sure most of us can agree that they all stink. So one might argue that League's popularity is a testament to how terrible it really is. But that is for another thread.
basicly known that LoL's community is much bigger then WoWs one.
Point is that most MOBA gamers dont even want to play MMO's or even never played. On the other side MMO gamers like to play some MOBA's sometimes (not all for sure).
while WOW is a typical Boston Consulting Matrix - Cashcow which gets milked till the end while LoL is keep getting bigger
basicly known that LoL's community is much bigger then WoWs one.
Point is that most MOBA gamers dont even want to play MMO's or even never played. On the other side MMO gamers like to play some MOBA's sometimes (not all for sure).
while WOW is a typical Boston Consulting Matrix - Cashcow which gets milked till the end while LoL is keep getting bigger
Really its basically known is it??? Reference's please??? Where do you come by your numbers???
I guess World of Tanks is even better the LoL they have an ever larger player base!!! And likely make a lot more money with there Cash shop then LoL....
But neither are the quality of game or make the amount of money that World of Warcraft makes.... And I pretty much hate WoW because its caused the last 10 years of games to be nothing but Theamparked instanced garbage!!!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
basicly known that LoL's community is much bigger then WoWs one.
Point is that most MOBA gamers dont even want to play MMO's or even never played. On the other side MMO gamers like to play some MOBA's sometimes (not all for sure).
while WOW is a typical Boston Consulting Matrix - Cashcow which gets milked till the end while LoL is keep getting bigger
Really its basically known is it??? Reference's please??? Where do you come by your numbers???
I guess World of Tanks is even better the LoL they have an ever larger player base!!! And likely make a lot more money with there Cash shop then LoL....
But neither are the quality of game or make the amount of money that World of Warcraft makes.... And I pretty much hate WoW because its caused the last 10 years of games to be nothing but Theamparked instanced garbage!!!
Well when I go outside walking in big cities driving trains, I hear people talk about LoL and stuff - (LoL is a game which gets played even by non typical gamers). I actually never heard anyone talking about WoW the recent years. Sure on forums but forums are some type of an intern talk platform.
World of tanks has also a large community thats true, but also a much higher average rate of older people, while I was playing it felt like only 15 years olds or 50 years olds play it...
i think it doesnt matter how popular LoL. It is not an mmorpg so it doesnt compare to WoW and other mmorpgs. LoL (i think) its the most popular game of its genre (moba). WoW its the most popular game of its specific genre too (3D open world subscription based mmorpg).
basicly known that LoL's community is much bigger then WoWs one.
Point is that most MOBA gamers dont even want to play MMO's or even never played. On the other side MMO gamers like to play some MOBA's sometimes (not all for sure).
while WOW is a typical Boston Consulting Matrix - Cashcow which gets milked till the end while LoL is keep getting bigger
Really its basically known is it??? Reference's please??? Where do you come by your numbers???
I guess World of Tanks is even better the LoL they have an ever larger player base!!! And likely make a lot more money with there Cash shop then LoL....
But neither are the quality of game or make the amount of money that World of Warcraft makes.... And I pretty much hate WoW because its caused the last 10 years of games to be nothing but Theamparked instanced garbage!!!
Well when I go outside walking in big cities driving trains, I hear people talk about LoL and stuff - (LoL is a game which gets played even by non typical gamers). I actually never heard anyone talking about WoW the recent years. Sure on forums but forums are some type of an intern talk platform.
World of tanks has also a large community thats true, but also a much higher average rate of older people, while I was playing it felt like only 15 years olds or 50 years olds play it...
So I have easily deduced 2 things from your post....
A) You are a Teenager likely around 15 years of age thus you hear a lot of LoL in your peer group and circle of friends.... Well duh! The game targets your age range.....
You and your friends have grown up after WoW's "Hay day if you will" Kids must play the games that are trending also in the current market were so many games a Free to Play parents are not as likely to Pay a Subscription fee for you to play WoW...
So your idea that LoL is bigger then WoW is based off the perception of the environment around you.... how often do you hang out with Aged 27-47 year old gamers???
You likely don't, infact that idea may seem odd to you. But there are more then teenagers that play video games! I am 44 years old and I have been playing Games Since Mud's which is a Text based online game you likely have never heard of....
Point being the WoW audience is made of up people from Mid 20's thru to there 50's in age and you believe that there are more 15, 16, 17, 18 year old gamers then there are gamers between the ages of 25-50??? if you really think that is true then your really bad at math....
So to sum up your perception based idea is flawed !!!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
So I have easily deduced 2 things from your post....
A) You are a Teenager likely around 15 years of age thus you hear a lot of LoL in your peer group and circle of friends.... Well duh! The game targets your age range.....
You and your friends have grown up after WoW's "Hay day if you will" Kids must play the games that are trending also in the current market were so many games a Free to Play parents are not as likely to Pay a Subscription fee for you to play WoW...
So your idea that LoL is bigger then WoW is based off the perception of the environment around you.... how often do you hang out with Aged 27-47 year old gamers???
You likely don't, infact that idea may seem odd to you. But there are more then teenagers that play video games! I am 44 years old and I have been playing Games Since Mud's which is a Text based online game you likely have never heard of....
Point being the WoW audience is made of up people from Mid 20's thru to there 50's in age and you believe that there are more 15, 16, 17, 18 year old gamers then there are gamers between the ages of 25-50??? if you really think that is true then your really bad at math....
So to sum up your perception based idea is flawed !!!
Oh, the generalizations.
A) You can see his age in his profile. He's not a teenager though he's still young. But geez, that's a really nasty stereotype you assumed from such little information in his post.
I think that's probably accurate. Most of the people I talk to, some older than me, some younger, but everyone in their mid 20s on up, if they played WoW they aren't currently playing. This is just anecdotal.
Anyway, at work games are often a conversational topic. I'm a programmer so I'm mostly around other programmers and some of the IT department. Most are males 25+ years of age. Some do play LoL. I play LoL myself off and on depending on what other games I'm actively playing at the time. As I said if WoW ever comes up in a conversation it's generally that someone was a big WoW player a few years ago, but quit at some point. People still play LoL. This is all anecdotal evidence, but considering you like to make really broad generalizations from small amounts of data, then go ahead and jump to conclusions with this.
Also it's "you're" not "your". If you are going to insult someone's math skills maybe you should do it with correct grammar. I don't see how your experience playing MUDs (which I also played) has anything to do with any of this conversation either. As for the information you are arguing: The average age of a WoW gamer is 28 years old according to http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001365.php however that survey was also taken in June 2005. Other studies tend to vary on what the average age of a gamer is, but it's always 30 or over (doing a quick search I see 30, 35, and 37) suggesting that WoW in June 2005 appealed to a slightly younger audience than what the "average" game would. There have been no majority studies for the average age of a League of Legends Gamer so it's impossible to draw any conclusions beyond anecdotal evidence and your own biased stereotypes.
Originally posted by mrputts And how many people play Madden, or Call of Duty, or Halo, or GTA 5. Not the same type of game, not comparable IMO.
There is enough to make comparisons on. Both are the most popular in their genre, both are multiplayer only (well, at least require an internet connection to play), both have millions playing monthly, and both have such dedicated players that have events dedicated specifically to the game as well as cosplay. I think it's silly to say you can't compare things just because they belong to different genres.
Comments
I think the comparison is relevant. One feature we see in WoW is that its designed around all these gamers that supposedly have no time. It seems that's because the gamers with time go play League of Legends. Additonally I would wager that the league of legends crowd is much younger then the world of warcraft players.
Basically what has happened to WoW is that the 'addicts' who carried tha game got old and bored - and the new audience that they should have brought in went to league of legends. So to fix this they dumbed down WoW - but it didin't work.
Good for them. The game itself is fun & engaging, and Riot deserves the rewards they're reaping for their hard work. It also has the side effect of attracting some of the most maladjusted little wastes of reproductive cells ever to live upon God's green earth. Make no mistake; I view this as a good thing, since it means there's a large amount of idiots I won't have to deal with in the online games I do play.
Between majority of the LoL & Starcraft 2 communities, I'd say that's 80% of the worst the internet has to offer nicely tied up screaming racial slurs & throwing feces at each other. The 20% or so left are hard enough to deal with as it is, if the aforementioned games ever lost popularity I'd probably just quit the internet forever.
Sure Mobas in general have more concurrent users than wow. I know plenty of people who play them, more than play mmo's. But the reason for that is the fact that they are easy to access, easy to play, and easy to enjoy in small amounts. Easy to play for giant amounts too. It caters to both crowds. They are completely different genres, that might attract to the same communities, but you have to keep in mind that free to play and pay to play are completely different.
I'm sure it is bringing in more revenue than wow as well at this point simply because people love to pay for skins for some reason. I own a few myself, and have purchased RP plenty of times, and even the stingiest of friends I have, have dumped tons of money into league of legends. So I'm positive that they are bringing in quite a bit.
Compare them once wow goes free to play, I know if it did the community size would change, but who knows maybe league would still have more players.
That guy Merrel says even if he knew the numbers, he wouldn't tell anyone.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-10-16-riot-president-make-the-s-in-riot-games-mean-something
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
then you have to factor in the fact that WoW has simply been around longer. That's why I think it's best to just look at a snapshot at any point in time. That's why I deliberately said "currently more profitable than WoW."
Whether or not WoW has "lost its throne" isn't gonna be decided by another company making more than WoW has in total, it's when another company beats it at all. But even if LoL is more popular than WoW, I don't consider that to be WoW losing its title as top dog because MOBAs simply aren't MMORPGs. They're not even close really.
That would make a lot more sense. There was no way the original numbers could be correct.
I'd hazard a guess and say League of Legends is more profitable than WoW, but unless we get concrete data there is no conclusive proof here. Keep in mind that not all of WoW's subs are in the $15 a month category as they count "subs" in internet cafes in places like China towards the total that aren't paying the same payment plans and only play for a few hours each month. League of Legends may have the majority of players playing free, but they also have whales which spend a lot more per month than someone subbed to WoW.
League of Legends probably has to deal with less costs than WoW also. A full featured MMO requires a much larger customer support staff such as GMs. Every expansion they deliver makes them more money of course, but they do lose some of it to distribution costs which for League which is a purely digital game (ignoring the riot point cards and the collector's edition box when the game first released) is very low.
I am curious as to why you bring up a none MMO game comparing popularity with a MMO as a topic in the pub?
There are plenty of other genre of games more populair then WoW.
Does that mean MMO's should take note of those games so that they can become even more just combat oriented online games where rankings and leaderboards rule?
I'm really trying to understand why people care how much money or how popular a game is? I don't know, I grew up in an era where we just played games. Some sucked others were awesome with some in between.
I mean when we sat down to play double dragon or street fighter II we didn't talk about what it's budget was or if it was going to fail or not. We just wanted bragging rights.
guess times have changed.
Ahahaaa, but washing machines are waaaay more popular than toasters!
It is funny, isn't it. Although DoTA2 is in more or less any aspect the better game in comparsion to LoL. Gameplay, Cashshop, Tactic, Strategy, Action, Characters, Graphics, Friendlist and Tools. And the blizzard MOBA Hereos of the Storm will be announced this Nov. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eThSo670cas which will be a by far better comparsion.
WoW and LoL comparsion is like apples and courgette. The one is F2P, a MOBA, with a lot less of development cost, and a lot less of annual revenue, the other is a MMORPG, with a extremely high development cost(factor 10 and more), P2P, and a annual revenue like no other game before and after it.
Why not compare Pacman with Call of Duty instead?
I don't understand why people try to compare games of entirely different genres to one another. Who cares which game is more "popular" than the other? Shut the hell up and play your damn game. Besides it's not as though something being popular makes it a great thing, Glee is massively popular, The Jersey Shore was pretty damn popular. Reality TV in general gets the highest ratings these days, but I'm sure most of us can agree that they all stink. So one might argue that League's popularity is a testament to how terrible it really is. But that is for another thread.
Oh, i am sure said comparison will be made once wow goes F2P.
Why not? There is a overlapped audience.
Who cares? Devs, and people who watch market trends.
You don't think everyone is jumping into the MOBA band wagon just because ... do you?
No not "just because" but because "everyone else seems to be" it's easily accessible because it is overly simple.
basicly known that LoL's community is much bigger then WoWs one.
Point is that most MOBA gamers dont even want to play MMO's or even never played. On the other side MMO gamers like to play some MOBA's sometimes (not all for sure).
while WOW is a typical Boston Consulting Matrix - Cashcow which gets milked till the end while LoL is keep getting bigger
Really its basically known is it??? Reference's please??? Where do you come by your numbers???
I guess World of Tanks is even better the LoL they have an ever larger player base!!! And likely make a lot more money with there Cash shop then LoL....
But neither are the quality of game or make the amount of money that World of Warcraft makes.... And I pretty much hate WoW because its caused the last 10 years of games to be nothing but Theamparked instanced garbage!!!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
Well when I go outside walking in big cities driving trains, I hear people talk about LoL and stuff - (LoL is a game which gets played even by non typical gamers). I actually never heard anyone talking about WoW the recent years. Sure on forums but forums are some type of an intern talk platform.
World of tanks has also a large community thats true, but also a much higher average rate of older people, while I was playing it felt like only 15 years olds or 50 years olds play it...
So I have easily deduced 2 things from your post....
A) You are a Teenager likely around 15 years of age thus you hear a lot of LoL in your peer group and circle of friends.... Well duh! The game targets your age range.....
So your idea that LoL is bigger then WoW is based off the perception of the environment around you.... how often do you hang out with Aged 27-47 year old gamers???
You likely don't, infact that idea may seem odd to you. But there are more then teenagers that play video games! I am 44 years old and I have been playing Games Since Mud's which is a Text based online game you likely have never heard of....
Point being the WoW audience is made of up people from Mid 20's thru to there 50's in age and you believe that there are more 15, 16, 17, 18 year old gamers then there are gamers between the ages of 25-50??? if you really think that is true then your really bad at math....
So to sum up your perception based idea is flawed !!!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo
Oh, the generalizations.
A) You can see his age in his profile. He's not a teenager though he's still young. But geez, that's a really nasty stereotype you assumed from such little information in his post.
Anyway, at work games are often a conversational topic. I'm a programmer so I'm mostly around other programmers and some of the IT department. Most are males 25+ years of age. Some do play LoL. I play LoL myself off and on depending on what other games I'm actively playing at the time. As I said if WoW ever comes up in a conversation it's generally that someone was a big WoW player a few years ago, but quit at some point. People still play LoL. This is all anecdotal evidence, but considering you like to make really broad generalizations from small amounts of data, then go ahead and jump to conclusions with this.
Also it's "you're" not "your". If you are going to insult someone's math skills maybe you should do it with correct grammar. I don't see how your experience playing MUDs (which I also played) has anything to do with any of this conversation either. As for the information you are arguing: The average age of a WoW gamer is 28 years old according to http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001365.php however that survey was also taken in June 2005. Other studies tend to vary on what the average age of a gamer is, but it's always 30 or over (doing a quick search I see 30, 35, and 37) suggesting that WoW in June 2005 appealed to a slightly younger audience than what the "average" game would. There have been no majority studies for the average age of a League of Legends Gamer so it's impossible to draw any conclusions beyond anecdotal evidence and your own biased stereotypes.
There is enough to make comparisons on. Both are the most popular in their genre, both are multiplayer only (well, at least require an internet connection to play), both have millions playing monthly, and both have such dedicated players that have events dedicated specifically to the game as well as cosplay. I think it's silly to say you can't compare things just because they belong to different genres.