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This is the end ?
I was browsing the SOR forums in order to gather informations about the game before creating an account. Unfortunately I found a post from Nevrax in which they were saying that the French trading court had renewed the survey of this company (in other words the company was having economical difficulties and the French court given the improvement of their profit gave them a bonus time to proove that they won't go bankrupt).
I didn't know that the company was in such a bad shape. Do you have any information about the bonus granted to them ? Will the game last 3, 6 more months or maybe a whole year ?
Comments
The legal process isn't as harsh as chapter 11/bankruptcy in the US. It creates more of a feel of panic than it should.
They're likely in good shape for the next 6 months or so at least, but they keep making mistakes. The former SWG player influx might pull their ass out of the line of fire, as may Ryzom Ring. But 6 months at least and its likely they'll continue to scrape by for now.
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Ryzom is here to stay, more people than ever ingame and numbers seem to be increasing all the same. Lots of new stuff gets added tommorow in a huge content patch people have been waiting for, for a long time now which should bring a lot of people back too
So try the game, Ryzom has a long way ahead of it.
-----------------
Kibs
Avatar by Ema
Playing: The Saga of Ryzom since march 2004
If it doesn't drive more away Kibs...
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I very much doubt that will happen :P
-----------------
Kibs
Avatar by Ema
Playing: The Saga of Ryzom since march 2004
You know I hesitated a lot between Eve-Online and Ryzom. I liked so much Ryzom's skill system but at that time I was thinking that Eve' crafting system was better (I was wrong) that's why I didn't pick that game sooner.
What are Ryzom's main drawbacks currently ?
Kibs, they could forcibly hack off one of your limbs and you'd say it was a good idea.
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The openness of the older game is being eroded by new 'content' that undermines the helpful and mature community atmosphere and open roleplay that were the greatest strengths of the game before. People are being forced to join one of the factions or lose a lot of the benefits they had before. In other words, things, choices especially, are being taken away rather than added to.
The current changes are moving it into being a more conventional MMORPG which I feel is a mistake since imitation doesn't win people over or find a niche.
Ryzom Ring appears to be the last radical thing left from the original vision and it COULD make all the difference.
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Thanks for the replies, Btw what are the populations currently on the 3 servers ? Apparently you have to choose one of these servers when you create your account and you are unable to change after that.
they wont lose that many players from these changes as they are not as game defininginly screwed up as its been made out, however IF they continue going down the same lane of introducing what the players DONT want rather than what they DO want it will screw things up for them.
still waiting for -
ranged
rites
affliction
fun missions
etc etc etc
instead we get -
restrictions, restrictions, restrictions
btw....................my account going dormant soon, so I guess they will lose 1 player
Whats going on there with TPs and spires ?
I read on the forums that new TPs will be introduced today. Are those placed in spires ?
I mean, is it possible to prevent kamis from Loria by owning the spire there ?
You got 3 servers, Arispotle (Enligsh), Aniro (French) and Leanon (German). Best is to pick the one with your language
.
And yep you cant change them, but there is no need to since they are all wih a different language
Originally posted by mague
Whats going on there with TPs and spires ?
I read on the forums that new TPs will be introduced today. Are those placed in spires ?I mean, is it possible to prevent kamis from Loria by owning the spire there ?
new tp's are just normal tp's nothing to do with spires
I dont know if the spire battle rules are finalised yet, but afaik (which isnt much) it would be possible to prevent kami's using tp in an area with kara spire
As usual all this talk of freedom can be seen from different perspectives, i think what they have done has opened up more of Atys really.. went around and grabbed some new tp's last night - now i have quick and easy access to many places i havent spent much time before. And Yay! the mount bug is fixed, so dont really need teleports anyway
re is this the end? i seriously doubt it, even the witherings were full of peeps last night; lots of old faces around as well.
trying to clear some things up here:
that happened almost a full year back. they were given a certain time to fix things up under observation. after that things looked up, but they weren't out of it yet, so they were given more time. now that time is ending and they need to break even.in order to do this some people (who probably have more than enough cash lining their pockets either ways) volunteered to be taken off the payroll, so that the company won't be in the red numbers anymore. at the same time these people are still in a consulting capacity or like xavier put it : "never far away".
it's anyone's guess as to what exactly this means, but to me this means they still do the same as before but simply don't get paid for it, so the books look slimmer.
to make it clear: the period ends this month, after that they're on their own.
A very low number of real quests. An environment that can be very harsh and unforgiving for a newbie. Kinda low playerbase(if you're one who wants to be swimming in players). Many aspects that force teamwork or at least connections with other players.Disclaimer: These are things that i see that could be considered drawbacks by other people, I for one don't.
---
Also i'd like to expand on GRIM's post: The previous openness consisted of the ability to teleport to any teleporter on the whole planet that you have visited once, instantly. These teleporters belong to the two religious factions in the game and now they are implementing something that limits your choice in teleporters and makes more sense in the story background.
- The choices in porters are now: Use all porters of your own faction. (These are distributed across all regions of the world and each region has one of them.)
OR
- Use the low level teleporters from both factions. (This would make you walk to the regions that contain mobs and mats for level 200-250 and also to the roots, the only region that contains supreme mats, the best possible crafting mats you could get.)
Once again, make your own mind up wether this is good or bad.
To clarify my own point.
When I talk about freedom it is freedom to roleplay your character as you have developed it, as you see fit, according to the lore as you read it. A truly dynamic environment where player thought and portrayal has an influence.
These changes are a transparent attempt to force 'buy in' to the PvP faction conflict.
This is unfortunate as, prior to recent changes, SoR attracted a more PvE, roleplay, community oriented playerbase. This set it apart and gave it a much more mature and welcoming atmosphere than many other MMORPGs and contributed to its good reputation.
Now they seem bent on a course of imitation and dumbing down which _may_ help them financially and in terms of subscriptions short term, but not IMO long term. The slow build and word of mouth would have been a safer bet IMO.
Outpost inclusion also confuses the issue, at a time when they're trying to push faction and civilisation loyalty they also expect people to compete over outposts - this competition is, mostly, going to be intra-faction between guilds of the same alignment. Pulling in two directions at once.
The last gasp of the old Ryzom as envisioned appears to be the Ryzom Ring project which - of the announced and upcoming changes and developments, is the only one that really holds out much hope for the old-time Ryzom community as it developed.
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To be clear, the story has been about faction conflict. It just so happens that those factions now really want you and if you re not willing to dedicate yourself to them, they are not willing to help you quite as much.
You can still roleplay just as much as before, and teh community is the same, save a few people who like to PvP slaughter more than most. Even if it is at the expense of innocents.
The Factions are warring, and will continue to battle. That does not require you to PvP although your destiny may be determined for those that will fight for or against your cause. You could find yourself very happy in a role that supplies much needed equipment to those of like mind to fight the battle for you, etc.
The outposts are initially yes, a building block. They provide a point of ownership, that does not only need to be contested between like minded folks but provides an opportunity to keep new resources and the like from your moral enemies. (Which does not mean you can't be civilized and nice about it outside of that little piece)
These new resources, crafting plans, points of "nexus" are the first step for outposts which will likely evolve with the story line to provide defense from invasions of both the Kitin (everyone's mortal enemy) and the opposing faction. In addition to this, the outposts are introducing a tremendous amount of teamwork, alliance, diplomacy, and the like. It is quite an interesting aspect that we can explore over the next few months and years.
I think the world is opening it's doors, and we will walk through and embibe in the brew of the kingdom. The Ryzom Ring will expand upon that and help make the world more flavorful. As Saga of Ryzom is not Owned by Blizzard or Sony Entertainment, it would be ridiculous to expect that amount of horsepower to crank out content, etc.
Some may argue otherwise, but I personally think things have gotten better and things that were taken for granted before are now being more controlled by the story.
Noin.
Those relatively unaffected by the narrowing of gameplay and the ignoring of what a lot of players have worked towards have trouble seeing the problem.
See above.
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This in particular shows the disconnect between those who are OK with what's going on and those who aren't.
The game has been very loose, philosophically and mechanically from the start. The open skill system and the relative lack of 'content' gave room for people to interpret things in their own way and take from the lore what they would. What a lot took and developed was a 'recovery from the fights of the past' and reformist attitude, heavily supported by the lore-that-was.
Anyway, back to the point.
Noin appears to be happy to live someone else's story. Those more into RP and those who have stepped up and kept the game going and engaging for such a long time while Nevrax sorted their life out want to tell their OWN story within the context supplied by the game.
In an interactive medium the more choice you provide the better. Before it was almost as open as a tabletop RPG. Now its being narrowed down and storyline interaction style is being dictated.
I and many others don't want to be told a story, we want to make a story.
Otherwise you may as well be reading a book or watching a film.
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Hate to say it, but until Ryzom Ring, there can only be one dungeon master here, and that is Nevrax. If you can't see that jump ship now because you will never be happy.
Once the Ryzom Ring comes in there will be the opportunity for little side stories / quest / RP / whatever that may or may not follow lore, and may or may not be of any value to anything. If some folks are really good, Ryzom Ring could develop Ryzom into several directions and people would basically choose which direction to go.
The fact is that a MEGA company like Blizzard could not give what you want and develop content because what you are saying is that the game should develop for each indivudal as each individual wants it to develop. This is impossible.
Each individual can develop within the confines of the rules that the Dungeon Master sets. Otherwise story progression can not occur and the meaninglessness that some argue exists will run rampant.
When your pen and paper Dungeon Master refused to let you go through a locked door did you kick and scream and get up and run away? No, you worked within the development of the story. What some are missing I believe, and not just you mate is that there is a lot of RP room in the current changes. Instead of limiting the RP they have given the RP more content, and more direction.
Glad we can have a civil conversation...
Noin.
Dungeon Master is a D&D specific term. Since there are no dungeons in Ryzom its a doubly silly thing to call it. Shame the MMO industry has misused the term 'GM' but there you go. MMORPGs are large, cooperative games and having been involved in large cooperative games for over 10 years I can tell you it can be done, on or offline, and it isn't really that difficult.
The important thing is to not equate the 'DM' with 'Author'. A good GM isn't an absolute authority there is give and take and, in larger organised play, the secret is to leave room for people to express themselves and do their own thing. The more you narrow their options the more you squeeze out roleplay and reduce possibilities.
R2 has a lot of possibilities but it could subdivide and ghettoise the community, breaking it up. There are risks as well as rewards.
Lies. Lies and treason. You don't NEED specifically developed content, you just need to leave an open space and tools with which people can do these things themselves.
And no, I don't mean creative tools like R2 for people to spawn their own content, I mean things like RP aids (simply items that don't actually do anything, or do something minimal), bringing back the interactive backgrounds like the chairs and so on.
In terms of context that means allowing people to have self determination and providing room for them to play as they please, within reason.
The restrictions that have emerged from the current patching severely damage the possibility of doing that within Ryzom, save for the most committed roleplayers. Anyone even slightly more concerned with mechanical advantage will feel compelled to pick a side. Yet those 'sides' don't allow for a moderate or open position and - oddly - neutral players and guilds are even more restricted in recruitment and action than the drooling fanatics!
The stated reason for the restriction is the 'problem' of having adversarial faction enemies within the same guild. The more relaxed way to deal with this would have been letting the guild themselves worry about that. If their members are playing more moderate people of either faith who can live together - fine - If they want to battle each other during faction events - fine.
Let them play how they want and discover their own ways around it.
Same - doubly so - for the civilisation restrictions.
Especially for us the Mercenary life is now impossible, save in relation to outposts (though we think we've found a workaround).
Its all restriction and inconvenience that really isn't needed.
If I had been doing it I'd have enticed people to the sides by offering new rewards to them, not offering to rob them of slightly less of the game for picking a side. That's no reward. Use the carrot rather than the stick.
Any GM worth their salt adapts to their players and doesn't run on rails.
They've robbed us of RP and reduced it to a shallow binary choice.
They've systematically destroyed the stand-out and individual high points of this game that made it stand out from the others.
STILL gritting teeth and waiting for R2
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Well, I thought I saw your side, but you appear to just be a raving lunatic about the changes.
When the door is imaginary, it is very easy to change that. When you want to see that or the chair, it is very differrent, now the feature you want to manipulate RP around has to be pre-arranged to accept the RP you wish to do around that.
The fact that you cannot see that it is not easy to make what you are looking for is fascinating to me, and quite honestly the only reason I am responding. Even with Ryzom Ring you will be "stuck" in the exact scenario developed.
In the example here, if you could not kill the daughter instead of saving her like I would like to. What a crappy stale no RP allowed scenario. No one can allow for the whim of everyone, however I really think if you stepped back and took a breath, you would realize the changes allow for a significant amount of RP.
You repeatedly are yelling about taking stuff away, what got taken away? A few teleporters? Did they help you RP? Screw the teleporters. You really do not need a single one of them, so stop griping about them.
@grim:
*sigh* Here i was hoping to have a nice conversation that actually helped the thread starter to decide what is what, by giving hard facts. Then you go in and manage to turn this whole thing into a metaphysical discussion which doesn't include any facts anymore and is more confusing than anything else. I probably could reply to most of your points here, but to properly do so I'd have to waste about an hour or two, which this simply isn't worth.
So instead i'll just say: If you want people to actually listen to you and understand what you say, be short, be precise, use facts, leave the sarcasm or jokes out. Also: think about wether or not Ryzom is a pen&paper rpg.
rl;dr: You just cheated yourself out of a meaningful answer by dropping a ZOMG WALL OF TEXT!
Interesting. They seem to have finally made things in the game matter. For the longest time none of the factions meant anything. The Kami and the Karavan were meaningless entities that just sat around. It almost makes me want to play again.
thats the thing that Grim cant seem to understand, lots of us like these changes. My role as a Kamist actually has basis in the game not just in my head now. The months i spent in serverence to the Kami's taking missions, killing enemy tribes, etc has translated into meaning when i play. It's great!
last night was absolutely wonderful experience ingame, best I've had in months. Helped out in some great outpost battles with Kami guild's we have alligned with - made some new friends among them as well. Spent some time in a group on our mounts exploring the lands, engaged in some fun RP with a group of the enemy in the Underspring, made plans to aid the temple in Zora next time it is attacked (take note Kibs!!), so much going on, and so much to come.
Maybe you should just enjoy yourself and stop hating on everything that doesnt turn out how u want grim, the game is great, the ppl are great, the sense of story, and RP value, etc has increased exponentionally for me and my friends with the advent of factions really meaning something. This isnt dungeons and dragons around a table, you arent the GM here. with R2 maybe you can expect that and escape from all the nasty people who have decided to fight for and defend their Gods!
heheh I'll be waiting for ya Rushin
-----------------
Kibs
Avatar by Ema
Playing: The Saga of Ryzom since march 2004
So much easier to say that than to actually counterargue isn't it? That's called an ad hominem attack. As ever I have good solid reasons for all my objections and for criticising the implementation path that they've chosen.
I am well aware of the limitations of code, however we're not talking about specific instances but rather broad contexts. The broader context of the game, the freedom that it had has been narrowed down to a very tight level killing off a great many options and different approaches that were previously accomodated and could have been increased.
Sleepguy is right in that it is good that these choices matter, however I believe the cost heavily outweighs the 'reward'. Rather than really adding to choices and options of any party they have taken them away. Most especially from the broad band of neutral and non fanatical players and guilds.
To come back to the specific instance to deal with that, (your door).
There is a sort of 'hierarchy' of openness.
From least to most...
1. Level based puzzle games with specific answers.
2. Conventional single player FPS (Limited choice in approach via weapons).
3. Semi-sandbox FPS (HL2) - The physics engine provided several solutions to problems but most of it was railroaded.
4. Multiple Choice RPG (KOTOR) - decisions matter but only to a limited degree, you don't HAVE to do every mission laid out in front of you.
5. Multiple approach FPS (Deus Ex) - Every problem had multiple solutions.
6. Factionalised MMORPG - Where the choice is only between two sides - WoW perhaps being an example. You have limited freedom (depending on the server) to portray your character as you like but you're still compartmentalised.
7. Tripartite MMORPG - AO probably being the best example having a fairly well rounded neutral option.
8. Computerised self-creating content - Vampire: Redemption, Neverwinter Nights - Games with online play, GM tools and in-play GMing.
9. Scenario/Module Tabletop RPGs
10. Self prepared Tabletop RPGs/Modules
11. Freeform tabletop RPGs.
In a freeform/self prepped RPG (10-11) a GM might allow someone to break down the wall next to the door, teleport through it using a spell, pick the lock, address it any number of different ways.
In a module RPG (9) the scenario may not give any info on what happens if the players find a way to bypass the door (especialy if it isn't meant to be opened) or there may be a specific solution. A good GM will adapt and cope, even though this is more difficult with prepped scenarios.
In something like NWN and Redemption (And possibly R2 - Level 8), you could spawn or despawn objects/creatures, change the state of items and/or posess individuals and speak through them. This allows SOME of the adaptability of TTRPGs allowing people to address the specific player actions through limited improvisation. This won't be possible in the main game but may be possible in R2.
In tripartite MMORPGs (7) there is a role for neutral players - neutral covering a lot of ground. They get access to most of the game goodies one way or another but don't really get anything taken _away_. Those who do pick a side may get certain things better, enticements to join and so on, but the rest aren't beaten down.
Then dropping down a chunk to level 3 or so on that hierarchy, well, we've all run into those times in an FPS when that door - which doesn't look to strong, refuses to open without a passkey, even if you pump half a dozen missiles into it. That breaks immersion in the game and happens even with the newest FPS games.
Again, you're addressing a different argument than the one I was actually prosecuting. Within the overall, general context of the game it is extremely easy to provide for the plethora of neutral or moderate roles that people have been playing and want to continue to play, without beating them with a stick.
Here's how I would have done it...
1. I would not have removed any current TP locations from anyone, but the KOS guards by fame would have remained as they are. Another option would have been to introduce Tryton rainbow bridges - but that would have been a lot of effort.
2. Instead of taking things away to 'threaten' people into joining a particular faction I would have offered inducements. Karavan/Kami traders, new faction specific craft patterns, activating NEW TP points but making THEM Faction only while leaving the previous.
3. I would have allowed neutral guilds (civ or faction) to continue to recruit (or keep) people of any factional persuasion. Nevrax's stated reason for splitting them up 'You would have enemies in the same guild' does not hold water. If they're in the same guild and working together they're not enemies are they?
4. They should still have the code - though it likely needs work - for picking a side when you enter a PvP zone. We already have something like that for the outpost wars. A neutral PvP flagged person entering such a zone could be presented witha choice 'Kami or Karavan' and then select it, with an impact on their fame (once each way +1/-1 within 24 hours or something to stop it being used to powerlevel fame). This would allow for the mercenary type players or those who believe one side over the other in relation to specific events.
If R2 allows for live GMing of scenarios, then you could kill her. It could be gotten around fairly easily and then the GM could put together a follow up scenario of a vengeful tribe attacking you.
The teleporters are only a game mechanic manifestation of the problem. Though they are uneven.
For example, a neutral can get to every town in Fyros still, but cannot freely teleport to every town in Tryker - despite Tryker by lore and play being the most neutral land and people of them all. It doesn't feel very thought through.
The loss of TPs has been the major spur to making people pick sides, but that's just it, they're being made to and a lot of those who are picking sides are 'betraying' how they have played and RPed their characters just for the sake of convenience and PR access.
What's being taken away you ask?
The ability to accurately portray your character, unless you're a drooling fanatic. The ability to effectively play a neutral - in most of the ways neutral applies - the ability to play a moderate Kami or Karavan member.
It's also a betrayal of the idea that player actions and desires could shape the game.
R2, as said before, may be the last saving grace.
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