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And absolutely true. Maybe I'm nostalgic for the beta days, because sometimes it really feels like that lol.
I can't speak for management, and i won't go so far as to say that NGE in general was the right way to go, but they solved the main issue.
Look...
When I was correspondent, they had 60 developers. This was by far the largest development team in the industry, and still is with 70 now. So how come they couldn't get the game ironed out finally?
I was working with 5 developers, no more than that. Where were the other 55?
I'll tell you where...JTL, and Jedi.
Even if they weren't working on an expansion and an entirely new class, consider the fact that you had just a little less than two developers PER PROFESSION. It's not enough, and still able to maintain an expansion schedule.
By reducing it to 9, they are now able to concentrate that development force, and bring amazing changes like this to the game seemingly overnight.
It's a matter of numbers.
Lastly, let's assume for the moment that they make changes to ONLY one profession adding immersion and lore. In the old days, you had 31 other professions crying for "when is it OUR turn?". Now you have 8. And still, you now can POTENTIALLY concentrate a minimum of a little less than 8 developers on each profession simultaneously, and with consistency.
And when it's all done finally, you will end up with GM events like you've never seen before, and those will be server-wide, not just for those that go out of their way to get Pex to coordinate with them.
It's changing for the better.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
IF, IF they had actually applied themselves or I even saw then TRYING I might give you credit for that. However it seems rediculously obvious to me they weren't trying at all or applying themselves and overall there wasn't THAT much they needed to address immeditatly, they just couldn't be bothered with it because one company, the other, or both decided jedi is what was gonna sell so thats what they put all their effort too instead of taking care of the paying customers.
GM events? RIGHT, EQ 1 sat for most of its years with some of the lamest GM events known to man and all the developers there had to do was come up with new expansions. Your GM event concept is a pipe dream Wepps, sorry.
If the new legacy quests are any example of their immersion and lore, which is their latest work, then they have absolutely no concept of immersion and lore. All they seem to know is jedi's sell and turning up the game speed by 2 is faster funner combat.
And let me just say the whole "we only have 9 professions so we can do our jobs better" thing doesn't wash. Alot of those professions were simple novice professions and hardly needed the attention that the "iconic" professions now need. There were only a few real professions that were completely borked that needed hard attention and they knew about it forever and did absolutely nothing except jedi and work on paid expansions. They didn't have too much work before, they just had (and still do) their heads up their asses and their minds on nothing but box sales and NEW subscriptions. You can have 500 people working on one segment of code, if their management sucks its going to be as good as the weakest link the chain. Which in this case, is the management.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
adding stealth to other professions when it already exists and fixing them isn't really a whole lot of developer work.
Lastly, let's assume for the moment that they make changes to ONLY one profession adding immersion and lore. In the old days, you had 31 other professions crying for "when is it OUR turn?". Now you have 8. And still, you now can POTENTIALLY concentrate a minimum of a little less than 8 developers on each profession simultaneously, and with consistency.
And when it's all done finally, you will end up with GM events like you've never seen before, and those will be server-wide, not just for those that go out of their way to get Pex to coordinate with them.
I will believe this when I actually see it occur 1 time by SOE. Sony probably already has everyone working on the Hoth expansion pack. Which means they will fix smuggler, trader, commando, jedi and all "east coast lag" issue right around then until something more profitable comes along then fixing the game.
IF, IF they had actually applied themselves or I even saw then TRYING I might give you credit for that. However it seems rediculously obvious to me they weren't trying at all or applying themselves and overall there wasn't THAT much they needed to address immeditatly, they just couldn't be bothered with it because one company, the other, or both decided jedi is what was gonna sell so thats what they put all their effort too instead of taking care of the paying customers.
GM events? RIGHT, EQ 1 sat for most of its years with some of the lamest GM events known to man and all the developers there had to do was come up with new expansions. Your GM event concept is a pipe dream Wepps, sorry.
If the new legacy quests are any example of their immersion and lore, which is their latest work, then they have absolutely no concept of immersion and lore. All they seem to know is jedi's sell and turning up the game speed by 2 is faster funner combat.
And let me just say the whole "we only have 9 professions so we can do our jobs better" thing doesn't wash. Alot of those professions were simple novice professions and hardly needed the attention that the "iconic" professions now need. There were only a few real professions that were completely borked that needed hard attention and they knew about it forever and did absolutely nothing except jedi and work on paid expansions. They didn't have too much work before, they just had (and still do) their heads up their asses and their minds on nothing but box sales and NEW subscriptions. You can have 500 people working on one segment of code, if their management sucks its going to be as good as the weakest link the chain. Which in this case, is the management.
I was gonna post something, but Fadeus' post says it all. So I'll just
QFE!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Yes...I was being sarcastic. I played this game for 2.5 years.
I am done with the notion that MMOs are "always in beta". This is a cliche that the MMO community has bought into and it has done nothing but allowed companies like SOE to become lazy. Any company that can release cheap products will do so if their customers allow it.
I don't really care about the details of the Pre-CU/CU/NGE arguements. These are "subject to change" design decisions which will always need to be done in an MMO to keep things balanced and rewarding. What I care about is that these designs be implemented with the quailty a paying customer deserves.
Until we stop accepting the junk most MMO companies are dishing out to us, we will see more examples of SWG happening.
Counsel Gamers don't accept this, Single Player gamers don't accept this, but for some reason MMO gamers put up with it and enable it. We have become gullible and these companies are taking full advantage of it.
Maybe SWG is the turning-point. The community finally made a real statement to this treatment and many did the right thing and left. Now SOE has a decision to either start releasing quality or format c:. I will wait and see, but I will never again finance these efforts in hopes it will work out. I will wait until the product is done and functions completely as advertised.
Why do you think they had everyone tell them what the big game-breaking issues were? So they could swoop in like miracle workers and solve what the people wanted most taken care of, and create a new false hope for the future!
Remember... they SCREWED IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE... now they are given credit for suddenly putting out a few fires?
Once they get enough bright-and-shineys out there to shut-up the couple thousand still playing, make the noob stuff work long enough to get a few months out of noobs... thay're on to the next chunk of change.
They are now getting people like Wepps to say 'Look what they are saying about the next couple patches!!!".. laying out false hope that they finally removed their heads out their asses. Well, I'm still waiting on my SMUGGLER REVAMP.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I wasn't going to reply to this because Fadeus' post pretty much said all that I wanted to say, but then I re-read it and noticed this statement. Where the hell does Wepps gets this idea? If there's one thing that we can basically all agree on is that SOE is notorious for cutting back on GM events and that sort of stuff. Even MxO, who's only saving grace what the constant events under the previous managment, now they are all but gone! SWG has none and EQ has none! So what gives?
At first I thought that accusing people of beign SOE employees was stupid. Now I'm not so sure. This kind of spin control and PR-Crap tossing can only have 2 motivations. Either you are an employee or you enjoy the attention of beign an antagonist
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Oh come on now, your continual crying is just getting old and so am I.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Jeez!
Is anyone else having bad lag from this site?
first off.....the pub 27 notes rock!!! That's what we all want...even us that left...we love those ideas........
BUT.....you didn't need the NGE to do it. FIX the broke, add your legacy crap for noobs....we're all happy now....keep fixing the broke crap......add new content in quest forms (i.e. secrets of the siren was a nice arc)......but that's just not good enough.....
The expansion packs are fine...we would have kept buying them one every 6 months.....but they wouldn't fix the broke......and they just blew it with NGE....it was wasted time and money...
Smedley, you are fired!
torres, you are fired!
all you other CEO's and suites.....get out!
Faxx
Wepps, you don't seem to be very good at math. There wasn't really all that much new in either of this year's expansions. Different graphics on the same substance as the rest of the game. Most of the devs time has gone to reworking the game. Not content, not expansions, not bug fixes, not balancing professions. Reducing do 9 profs doesn't change the question of what are they all doing, they STILL won't be working on the things the playerbase want worked on. It's still going to all fall on the same 5 'fixers' while the other 65 find new and creative ways to screw the players.
70 devs - 34 professions leaves 36 devs to fix bugs, add content and work on expansions. More than enough people if they didn't try to start over every 6 months. No excuse at all for reducing the number of professions, none. Having more than 1 dev per profession would actually be a BAD idea. Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the soup. Indeed there are probably too many devs total. They should have kept 34 profs with 1 each and chopped it down to 5 devs for new content, 5 for expansions (if you don't rework the game most of the non-graphics work is already done) and 10 fixing bugs.
Oh come on now, your continual crying is just getting old and so am I.
Continuously supporting a severely mismanaged company/product is just as old as any crying (protesting) and many would say its quite foolish or idiotic.
I could say that it resembles sheep being led to the slaughter but I wont.
PIRATE LORDS
omg - jedi are getting better, better and better. They are to powerfull now, and can solo DWB and so on, but now it will be more imposible to pvp them. I played my commando because I tought that they might make some cool heavy weapons just for them, cuz commando did not get any specific weapons like spies,smuglers,BH, medics and jedi. Now I can plant few (1 at a time) crapy traps in disarm them!? Wow nice! How am I suposed to pvp faction oposition players now!?
DWB is a pain for my char atm ( jedi ) i have had multiple instances of clicking on heal , watching the timer go round but not actually recieving any health also saber block just isnt working down there for me at all
So Hipokrats if you have any tips for the DWB i would love to hear them
lol! Now that I can agree with!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
lol! Now that I can agree with!
Proof is found in THIS THREAD
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
lol! Now that I can agree with!
Proof is found in THIS THREAD
Lol, nice one Wepps.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Oh come on now, your continual crying is just getting old and so am I.
Come on Wepps! I'm sure you can do better than that! I mean... You post so eloquently when you are replying to "whines" and such, why is it that when someone calls you out on your hipocresy you just reply a one liner or an insult and move on?!
At least I'm glad to see that you fell off your "I used to be a correspondent and I got banned" high horse! Too bad you traded that position for SOE's Monkey!
TH says Dance Monkey, Dance!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
The real problem here is that you now hate a game company SO MUCH, that all you can do with your life all day everyday is go to websites, and gripe about them.
I wouldn't CARE, except that you have no point to make. You have nothing to offer, just the same old same old griping in general.
"OMG SOE sucks!" Really? It's OFN lol, but the least you can do is stop boring the rest of us with the same crap. Offer good solid reasons, I'd probably agree with you.
SOE management is a mess. It's always been a mess, and that is what is the direct REASON why we had to go through this pain in the first place. The arrogance there causes them to avoid the necessity of getting rid of these people who continually make huge mistakes in judgment.
This is well known fact, I've been spouting it as the basis of a changing of guard at SOE...for over TWO YEARS.
Yet, you come here and try to give the real veterans of this game your n00b insights into the fact that..."SOE sucks"?
Pfft get over yourself. You're old news, you're boring us!
You quit 7 weeks ago out of protest, haven't played 1 minute of the game, yet you have all kinds of intelligent insights like the above to offer?
You're just griping now. Get over it, and move on. At least have specific reasons for why YOU think that I am a fanboi of SOE. You have no argument sport. Go cry to your mother. I'm sure she's looking forward to your next criticism of how she cooked your food for you, or how she cleaned your room wrong.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Get over it? Man that is cold.
Are you part of the secret forum board offering SOE advice? The correspondent replacement program they are running on closed board?
Just wondering.
As for me. I wont get over it. I will contineously tell the story of soe and keep it around for a long time because they deserve it. Every ounce of angst they earned. So if it bothers you to keep seeing these personal crusades I will applogize for it interferring with other business but I do hope you understand the side of anti soe folks who want to keep the word out about this companies business practices and how this game was and is now. It to some of us is a noble cause to fight against a large company who has mistreated paying customers.
I believe my side is owed the right not to get over it.
The real problem here is that you now hate a game company SO MUCH, that all you can do with your life all day everyday is go to websites, and gripe about them.
I wouldn't CARE, except that you have no point to make. You have nothing to offer, just the same old same old griping in general.
"OMG SOE sucks!" Really? It's OFN lol, but the least you can do is stop boring the rest of us with the same crap. Offer good solid reasons, I'd probably agree with you.
SOE management is a mess. It's always been a mess, and that is what is the direct REASON why we had to go through this pain in the first place. The arrogance there causes them to avoid the necessity of getting rid of these people who continually make huge mistakes in judgment.
This is well known fact, I've been spouting it as the basis of a changing of guard at SOE...for over TWO YEARS.
Yet, you come here and try to give the real veterans of this game your n00b insights into the fact that..."SOE sucks"?
Pfft get over yourself. You're old news, you're boring us!
You quit 7 weeks ago out of protest, haven't played 1 minute of the game, yet you have all kinds of intelligent insights like the above to offer?
You're just griping now. Get over it, and move on. At least have specific reasons for why YOU think that I am a fanboi of SOE. You have no argument sport. Go cry to your mother. I'm sure she's looking forward to your next criticism of how she cooked your food for you, or how she cleaned your room wrong.
Thank you for validating my point Wepps, and glad to see you're back in the high horse!
A smart man like you tout around to be would not be making stupid assumption about how long have I been on this game. For your information, I was on beta too. You obviously don't know what they say about what happens when you assume. Like I said in another thread, check for my handle on the old forums and look for my first post. It was back when the first mission payout nerf hit way back upon release, and even then I had been here for a while!
Also, I had quit way longer than that. I quit back when the CU hit because I saw it as the first dumbing down of the game. But either way I downloaded the trial and tried the stupid NGE, and hated it even more. I almost wanted to reformat my drive to clean that filth out of my PC.
And you want me to say specific reasons on why I think you're a fanboi? Haven't I said enough???? Everybody's seen that whenever a red name posts on the forums, you're usually amongst the first 5 replies, commending them on their fan job they did and why the NGE is the greatest. My personal favorite was your reply to Pub 27 notes with:"This is great communication, and fantastic ideas. It's good to know that concentrating the game to a few professions is already showing the advantages." So you mean to say that 70 developers could not handle 36 proffesions, so they had to bring it down to 9? Damn!
Another thing, for someone who blows his horn so much about his age and maturity, bringing someone's mother to the discussion is pretty low and more expected of a 12 year old child! That may explain why you like the game so much, since you are now their target audience!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Haxx, you really seem like a good guy. You owe it to yourself to get over it. Don't let a company change the way you act, unless it's an alcohol maker. And then don't drive.
As to Duncan, spellcheck is your friend.
Please keep it in check or we will be forced to bring this thread down and we dont want that.
- Thanks guys
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Alright, the alchohol joke was funny. Nice one AA.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World