These things are gradual changes so no we won't magically have a perfect living world in one game, it will take time. It will take many small innovations.
WAR made public quests, GW2 chained them together into chained events, some new game will use AI to somehow randomize the chained events so they aren't as predictable etc.
EQN is at least trying to take the next step. It isn't going to be perfect but you have to take that one before you can reach the final goal.
If they can truly do away with the static spawn it will do a ton to make the world more living. In a living world every time I visit an area I should expect a chance to see something different and as long as we have static spawns this can't happen. If they allow mobs to build structures made from the voxels you suddenly have the environment changing as well. Scripted events are not really a living world, they are an illusion at best. Devs piping in new content is not really living either, it is an illusion. Hopefully more games will take real steps at innovation soon.
GW2 in general is a game of illusion, they did all the same things that other theme parks do but they just hide the flaws a little better than most. The flaws are still there just hidden. It makes for a better game experience but not sure it qualifies as any sort of innovation. Now if they just hadn't dumbed it down so much it could be a game with some teeth.
We are used to static NPC quest hubs, nothing really happends in the zone you quest in your favorite MMO, sure you can read what happend but you really can't see it.
Anet is trying hard with thier living world thing, yes I find some of them boring and grinding but atleast they are trying to make something that few MMO ever dared to try, they try to make the world living and in a flux of change in a minor degree, for me atleast that is a nice kick in the right direction how a MMO world can feel alive and not static, sure Anet have made some blunders but you have to make some errors to learn from your misstakes.
But sadly some people want the whole power for themselves to change the world and that power is a really bad thing, there are so many gamers out there who love and thrives to just fuck things up and that's why I feel Anet is on the right track, they are making the living world not some moronic and sick players.
You can hate or love this living world events but you have to see that this is a first step in something NOT static and I hope more future MMOs takes after Anets bold aproach on how a gaming world evolves and hopefully improves on it.
Rift did it before and better, Warhammer online even before that with the ¨Public quest¨ and to be honest, GW ¨DE¨ are most like a Public quest than a DE, i mean, there is nothing dynamic on them. Only thing that feel alive on GW2 are the cities, thats all.
still would rather play gw2 than ff 14 arr.or any of the current mmo's out today. the sence of exploraton on gw2 is top notch..i couldn't stand the invisible walls in ff and the combat in rift was supa slow..do i think gw2 needs some improvements,yes,but the game in itself is a very fun experience..at least to me
What's "living" in GW2? I see only boring grind added with every patch,I used to be a early "fanboy" of the game but after a year of total lack of fun neither in PVP or PVE I have changed my mind.
This "living" content it's only a fake of what should be real updates.
According to most of the pro-GW2 poster's logic in game design, WoW phasing would qualify it to be a 'living world'.
Which means WoW had the 'living world' MMO in the market quicker than GW2 did.
I don't think some posters thought this through....
Well yeah. It's actually worse than WoW.
Is not a living world where everything you did just resets back after an hour. At least with phasing you'll always see that zone changed. On GW2 if you go back to that area you "changed" it will be like you first found it.
To be fair, ANet did say before the game was launched that we would actually have a 'living world'.
ANet just failed to deliver what they promised. They aren't the first and they won't be the last.
Very likely this is impossible to obtain in any MMO online game. So do not see reason people should be upset or disappointed.
According to most of the pro-GW2 poster's logic in game design, WoW phasing would qualify it to be a 'living world'.
Which means WoW had the 'living world' MMO in the market quicker than GW2 did.
I don't think some posters thought this through....
Well yeah. It's actually worse than WoW.
Is not a living world where everything you did just resets back after an hour. At least with phasing you'll always see that zone changed. On GW2 if you go back to that area you "changed" it will be like you first found it.
To be fair, ANet did say before the game was launched that we would actually have a 'living world'.
ANet just failed to deliver what they promised. They aren't the first and they won't be the last.
Very likely this is impossible to obtain in any MMO online game. So do not see reason people should be upset or disappointed.
I'm waiting to see how EQN's rallying call will work, but it's still even if done how stated people still going to get complaints and from those who had unrealistic thoughts from what has been said.
That's even if it works how they claim.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I am sure I will get flammed for this but here it goes.
I kinda wish Guild Wars 2 would have taken the more WoW route in the living world. For example like in Westfall, the zone starts out one way and once you have completed the questline for the area the zone phases over into a different look. Redridge is an even better example of this where a good chunck of the zone becomes a crater after an event happens.
This way you get the feel that you are effecting the game world (even if it is just for your character) but you still keeps the ideal open for others to also be able to do it.
A big part of GW2's living world is just one off events that once they are done and over those that missed it never get to experience it.
Just my opinion though. I know alot of people do not like the phaseing stuff in WoW but it does give you that feeling that you are effecting the game world. Cause heck some people may never even do them quest lines and never see the world as your character does having experienced them events.
GW2 was the only AAA MMO I considered buying since Vanguard for this exact reason, but there were too many other issues with the game. Shallow class system, horrible RvR implementation, lack of any socializing or encouragement to socialize with other players, lack of any kind of difficulty, penalty, or consequence to what you do in the game world, dungeons were instanced rather than open world, and, this one is minor, I kind of didn't like the inconsistant anachronistic art style.
The events didn't go far enough, but it was a good step. They shoved in those awful heart quests, but the events were good. It's how I pictured MMOs progressing back in 2004, and it's where they were headed, because the entire genre took a break for 8 years.
Guild Wars 2 is a great game in a lot of ways, and it's Virtual World is absolutely beautiful and fantastic... and yes it feels to me like a living world OP.
But the Devs of GW2 decided to try to eliminate a need for the full mmo trinity of roles in GW2, but all that did for me was make me want the trinity more. Now they came close to the trinity... they got tanks... sort of.... and they definitely got CrowdControl Types.... but without true Healers I find the game is missing a role I enjoy and after a while I just stopped playing because of not being able to run a character of that role.... the more I play the more I miss having a Healer role class character, which is impossible in GW2. I don't care what they say.... none of the classes in GW2 can function as true Healers, no matter how they set up their characters.
Now reason number two... I felt from day one that Anet ignored WvWvW... and if they didn't actually ignore it, then it's seems to me they don't understand the concept much at all. The more they try to fix things in WvWvW the more they F stuff up. A great dream, but if the Devs can't pull it off, it comes off as a big disappointment.
Those are my two huge gigantic reasons why I no longer play GW2. I did have fun some and I do think I got my money's worth barely, but for me it's not the MMO I was looking for.
This is true, yet no one wants to play their game. Also, I'm not sure what makes a living world in a themepark will be the same thing that makes one in a sandbox.
Ryzom has a loyal and fun community, you don't have to have millions playing your mmo to make it fun. Sandbox or themepark is neither here nor there, fact is Tyria is not a living world and doesn't even come close.
Makes me smile how you have to admit it's true and then go off on a rant about something completely different, it's like you are trying to save face for the OP and GW2 lol.
So yes i can laugh when the faithful suggest that the devs have made a living world.
GW2 has a loyal and fun community. Having millions of fans playing your game doesn't negate that. Since sandbox or themepark is neither here nor there, then we can apply that to the rest of Ryzom. The game isn't fun or engaging no matter how "living" the world is.
It makes me smile that you think having a few systems in place that create a more dynamic world than Tyria somehow makes the game better. ANet can improve their world. Ryzom has failed to improve the game and make it interesting to all but a couple thousand people.
ANet has surely not hit the mark on what makes a truly dynamic world, but many people agree they have hit the mark on creating an engaging and immersive game. I never said ANet made a living world. I said they're making great progress at doing so in the game environment they've created.
So I can laugh at your feeble attempts to make Ryzom relevant. It will never be so after so many failed attempts. They just don't get it. Living world is cool, but that isn't what makes a game.
and what you don't seem to understand is this: Some of us do not play MMOs for their "game". We play them for their "living world", aka virtual World, environment, etc.
I can get better gameplay in a Console Game if I really was concerned about that. I play MMOs for their ingame world, their persistent world, I play them to also share that ingame world with other Players. The "Game" is just what we do while in the "world".
To me the "Living World" is more important than the "Game". To me if the "Living World" of a MMO is garbage (too shallow, too many walls, too instanced) than that MMO might as well not exist at all.
This is true, yet no one wants to play their game. Also, I'm not sure what makes a living world in a themepark will be the same thing that makes one in a sandbox.
Ryzom has a loyal and fun community, you don't have to have millions playing your mmo to make it fun. Sandbox or themepark is neither here nor there, fact is Tyria is not a living world and doesn't even come close.
Makes me smile how you have to admit it's true and then go off on a rant about something completely different, it's like you are trying to save face for the OP and GW2 lol.
So yes i can laugh when the faithful suggest that the devs have made a living world.
GW2 has a loyal and fun community. Having millions of fans playing your game doesn't negate that. Since sandbox or themepark is neither here nor there, then we can apply that to the rest of Ryzom. The game isn't fun or engaging no matter how "living" the world is.
It makes me smile that you think having a few systems in place that create a more dynamic world than Tyria somehow makes the game better. ANet can improve their world. Ryzom has failed to improve the game and make it interesting to all but a couple thousand people.
ANet has surely not hit the mark on what makes a truly dynamic world, but many people agree they have hit the mark on creating an engaging and immersive game. I never said ANet made a living world. I said they're making great progress at doing so in the game environment they've created.
So I can laugh at your feeble attempts to make Ryzom relevant. It will never be so after so many failed attempts. They just don't get it. Living world is cool, but that isn't what makes a game.
Who says they have millions of people playing? Have they released numbers?
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I think over the years old school MMOers has come to define "living world" as:
- Having player run towns and housing
- Having player run vendors
- Having the dynamics of economy dictated by player crafted items, NOT by looted items
- Having dynamic resources that changes in quality/cycle over time
- Having true day and night cycles
Event, while funs, is not necessary "living world" per se. It is more like "lively"
"Lively" and "Living world" are not the same thing. Living world is about social simulation aspect, whereas "lively" means it is robust and has a decent size player population and has stuff to do.
This is true, yet no one wants to play their game. Also, I'm not sure what makes a living world in a themepark will be the same thing that makes one in a sandbox.
Ryzom has a loyal and fun community, you don't have to have millions playing your mmo to make it fun. Sandbox or themepark is neither here nor there, fact is Tyria is not a living world and doesn't even come close.
Makes me smile how you have to admit it's true and then go off on a rant about something completely different, it's like you are trying to save face for the OP and GW2 lol.
So yes i can laugh when the faithful suggest that the devs have made a living world.
GW2 has a loyal and fun community. Having millions of fans playing your game doesn't negate that. Since sandbox or themepark is neither here nor there, then we can apply that to the rest of Ryzom. The game isn't fun or engaging no matter how "living" the world is.
It makes me smile that you think having a few systems in place that create a more dynamic world than Tyria somehow makes the game better. ANet can improve their world. Ryzom has failed to improve the game and make it interesting to all but a couple thousand people.
ANet has surely not hit the mark on what makes a truly dynamic world, but many people agree they have hit the mark on creating an engaging and immersive game. I never said ANet made a living world. I said they're making great progress at doing so in the game environment they've created.
So I can laugh at your feeble attempts to make Ryzom relevant. It will never be so after so many failed attempts. They just don't get it. Living world is cool, but that isn't what makes a game.
Who says they have millions of people playing? Have they released numbers?
2.5 million logins a week worldwide, that is indicative of NOT having millions of players. Anyway the earnings report for last quarter will be out soon, we will get a good idea of how gw2 is faring, and then we will have to deal with the foibles of the more passionate fans.
^ It's not you again. Samsung was fined for bribing forum developer or ghost writer to bash their competitor, you look like one of those person more and more.
Make me think about some of the positive forum poster too. When someone questioned Anet numbers, this person out of no where post a blog about some Anet person saying the numbers went up. If it really went up Anet wont' hasitate to say it on every forum.
People say they want that stuff but they don't. Doesn't Ryzom and a few other more sandbox oriented games offer limited resources and extinction of species? If people truly wanted those things those games would be packed.
I don't think GW2 really fully delivered, at least not to the expectation of the general gamer populace, but they made some great steps in the right direction, whereas other recently released games like FFXIV have shown that people really do want regurgitated mechanics in a new skin.
There's a current thread here called something like "I think it's over" where embittered players complain about current design and want nothing more than original mechanics with severe penalties. They don't want gaming evolution, yet they complain that games are all being made the same since WoW. That tells me players aren't as sure what they really want. They know what feeling they want to derive from the experience, but I don't think they really know what will deliver that.
Originally posted by bcbully Hook line and sinker. They sure hit their target demographic right between the eyes. They even give their demographic talking points complete with buzz words.
As opposed to sitting in a virtual cave for 6 months to level skills "offline" so a definite advantage, not related to skill at all, can be had over others? I think ArenaNet is pursuing the better path even if they haven't hit the mark.
I understand disappointment that ANet hasn't delivered on the full potential or that the attempts don't satisfy some. I don't understand given the static options and no attempt what-so-ever to improve on this by other companies how people can throw stones at the direction. They're making more progress in this area than most every other game developer, especially in the AAA arena.
+1
I've been wondering about this theory for a while. Player behavior (at least what I've often observed on forums) would seem to support the idea of "they know what feeling they want from the experience, but (I) don't think they really know what will deliver that." (Yes, I used quotations to show this is from the post above.)
I think these players are kind of caught in what I call "Star Trek Holodeck Syndrome." I think they are ready to move on past what our technology can do and get that true "immersion" that probably only something like a holodeck can provide. Otherwise, I would say that no game, even one of the upcoming fabled sandboxes is going to please the "We Want 1999 Again But We Want Another Version Of It" crowd.
So more on topic: I think GW2 at least has tried to move things forward with what it did. I still enjoy the world and yes, there is a TON of lore there to add to the "living world" feeling but you have to pay attention to detail and explore. IMO.
No, you expected "holodeck" experience. Once you relize everything in MMO needs to be programmed and scripted to work in predictable fashion. Pretty much any attempt to artificially overcome this resulted in....crap...to put it mildly. Events reset, they go back and forth and until devs change it it will be so, theres no mysterious force (nor ANet promised one) that will magically change this.
Yes, but you can do programming and scripting with algorithms that are complex enough so it won't be obvious to the player. Even if they had had more DE scripts and made each one fire less often it would have been much better. Having the events on a short cool down timer was the laziest and most unimmersive way the could have done it, especially when a lot of them are supposed to be "heroic deeds" which wouldn't logically keep repeating like that.
None of this requires anything close to "holodeck" level AI. Hell even Rift, an older game, manages to make it so there are many different types of rifts that can spawn and it takes a very long time of staying in the same zone to see every possible one.
The core of what makes GW2 not work is that it in trying to do things in a different way instead tears apart core online game elements consistent since the time of text based online games. I was thinking about this myself the other day and the problem is GW2 is not a persistent world at all. In trying to create a game where actions matter instead you just have a game that resets events every few minutes and that each part of the game has no bearing on the other. You instead end up feeling like you are playing a series of mini games and that your character is not really important. All you really have with GW2 is a themepark that does questing in the form of events but people do them the same way the quest just hang around and wait for it to repop. On top of that it segregates pvp into basically mini games so as not to bother the pve questers which is far from being a "living" world. On top of the horrible skill system and AOE spam that just makes things worse.
There is no such thing as a "living world" and themepark existing in the same place at the same time. Even as theme parks go GW2 has a lack of interesting maps, mostly 2d feeling with lots of invis walls. The only way to do a proper event based world is to have in game GMs run events no just repop scripted monsters every couple of minutes and even that is not enough to make a game worth playing. EVE is a living world, or maybe Ryzom but this is just a very PG13 themepark.
No, you expected "holodeck" experience. Once you relize everything in MMO needs to be programmed and scripted to work in predictable fashion. Pretty much any attempt to artificially overcome this resulted in....crap...to put it mildly. Events reset, they go back and forth and until devs change it it will be so, theres no mysterious force (nor ANet promised one) that will magically change this.
Yes, but you can do programming and scripting with algorithms that are complex enough so it won't be obvious to the player. Even if they had had more DE scripts and made each one fire less often it would have been much better. Having the events on a short cool down timer was the laziest and most unimmersive way the could have done it, especially when a lot of them are supposed to be "heroic deeds" which wouldn't logically keep repeating like that.
None of this requires anything close to "holodeck" level AI. Hell even Rift, an older game, manages to make it so there are many different types of rifts that can spawn and it takes a very long time of staying in the same zone to see every possible one.
lol @ Rift. Whenever someone mentiones Rift it pretty much invalidates and other point they were trying to make.
Go play Rift and its Rifts. It took and hour or 2 in zone to see em all. Spawned as regular as English train. Its really HARD to miss any of them while leveling, and i missed crapton of events in GW2. Probably if i went back now i would find quite i few i still missed (and i have 5 80-ies)
I still remember back in RIfts open beta when i first got to experience Rifts "Rifts". I just said "if this is the thing that is supposed to keep people playing they are in a big big big trouble". Rest is history.
Personally, it felt cluttered, and the classes felt bland to me. Shortest I have ever played anything I have bought. Its b2p, so if I ever feel like giving it another go, I can I guess.
Personally, it felt cluttered, and the classes felt bland to me. Shortest I have ever played anything I have bought. Its b2p, so if I ever feel like giving it another go, I can I guess.
Comments
These things are gradual changes so no we won't magically have a perfect living world in one game, it will take time. It will take many small innovations.
WAR made public quests, GW2 chained them together into chained events, some new game will use AI to somehow randomize the chained events so they aren't as predictable etc.
EQN is at least trying to take the next step. It isn't going to be perfect but you have to take that one before you can reach the final goal.
If they can truly do away with the static spawn it will do a ton to make the world more living. In a living world every time I visit an area I should expect a chance to see something different and as long as we have static spawns this can't happen. If they allow mobs to build structures made from the voxels you suddenly have the environment changing as well. Scripted events are not really a living world, they are an illusion at best. Devs piping in new content is not really living either, it is an illusion. Hopefully more games will take real steps at innovation soon.
GW2 in general is a game of illusion, they did all the same things that other theme parks do but they just hide the flaws a little better than most. The flaws are still there just hidden. It makes for a better game experience but not sure it qualifies as any sort of innovation. Now if they just hadn't dumbed it down so much it could be a game with some teeth.
Rift did it before and better, Warhammer online even before that with the ¨Public quest¨ and to be honest, GW ¨DE¨ are most like a Public quest than a DE, i mean, there is nothing dynamic on them. Only thing that feel alive on GW2 are the cities, thats all.
They did, it's called Darkfall.
What's "living" in GW2? I see only boring grind added with every patch,I used to be a early "fanboy" of the game but after a year of total lack of fun neither in PVP or PVE I have changed my mind.
This "living" content it's only a fake of what should be real updates.
Very likely this is impossible to obtain in any MMO online game. So do not see reason people should be upset or disappointed.
I'm waiting to see how EQN's rallying call will work, but it's still even if done how stated people still going to get complaints and from those who had unrealistic thoughts from what has been said.
That's even if it works how they claim.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I am sure I will get flammed for this but here it goes.
I kinda wish Guild Wars 2 would have taken the more WoW route in the living world. For example like in Westfall, the zone starts out one way and once you have completed the questline for the area the zone phases over into a different look. Redridge is an even better example of this where a good chunck of the zone becomes a crater after an event happens.
This way you get the feel that you are effecting the game world (even if it is just for your character) but you still keeps the ideal open for others to also be able to do it.
A big part of GW2's living world is just one off events that once they are done and over those that missed it never get to experience it.
Just my opinion though. I know alot of people do not like the phaseing stuff in WoW but it does give you that feeling that you are effecting the game world. Cause heck some people may never even do them quest lines and never see the world as your character does having experienced them events.
It's also called Age Of Wulin/Wushu.
GW2 was the only AAA MMO I considered buying since Vanguard for this exact reason, but there were too many other issues with the game. Shallow class system, horrible RvR implementation, lack of any socializing or encouragement to socialize with other players, lack of any kind of difficulty, penalty, or consequence to what you do in the game world, dungeons were instanced rather than open world, and, this one is minor, I kind of didn't like the inconsistant anachronistic art style.
The events didn't go far enough, but it was a good step. They shoved in those awful heart quests, but the events were good. It's how I pictured MMOs progressing back in 2004, and it's where they were headed, because the entire genre took a break for 8 years.
Guild Wars 2 is a great game in a lot of ways, and it's Virtual World is absolutely beautiful and fantastic... and yes it feels to me like a living world OP.
But the Devs of GW2 decided to try to eliminate a need for the full mmo trinity of roles in GW2, but all that did for me was make me want the trinity more. Now they came close to the trinity... they got tanks... sort of.... and they definitely got CrowdControl Types.... but without true Healers I find the game is missing a role I enjoy and after a while I just stopped playing because of not being able to run a character of that role.... the more I play the more I miss having a Healer role class character, which is impossible in GW2. I don't care what they say.... none of the classes in GW2 can function as true Healers, no matter how they set up their characters.
Now reason number two... I felt from day one that Anet ignored WvWvW... and if they didn't actually ignore it, then it's seems to me they don't understand the concept much at all. The more they try to fix things in WvWvW the more they F stuff up. A great dream, but if the Devs can't pull it off, it comes off as a big disappointment.
Those are my two huge gigantic reasons why I no longer play GW2. I did have fun some and I do think I got my money's worth barely, but for me it's not the MMO I was looking for.
and what you don't seem to understand is this: Some of us do not play MMOs for their "game". We play them for their "living world", aka virtual World, environment, etc.
I can get better gameplay in a Console Game if I really was concerned about that. I play MMOs for their ingame world, their persistent world, I play them to also share that ingame world with other Players. The "Game" is just what we do while in the "world".
To me the "Living World" is more important than the "Game". To me if the "Living World" of a MMO is garbage (too shallow, too many walls, too instanced) than that MMO might as well not exist at all.
Who says they have millions of people playing? Have they released numbers?
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I think over the years old school MMOers has come to define "living world" as:
- Having player run towns and housing
- Having player run vendors
- Having the dynamics of economy dictated by player crafted items, NOT by looted items
- Having dynamic resources that changes in quality/cycle over time
- Having true day and night cycles
Event, while funs, is not necessary "living world" per se. It is more like "lively"
"Lively" and "Living world" are not the same thing. Living world is about social simulation aspect, whereas "lively" means it is robust and has a decent size player population and has stuff to do.
2.5 million logins a week worldwide, that is indicative of NOT having millions of players. Anyway the earnings report for last quarter will be out soon, we will get a good idea of how gw2 is faring, and then we will have to deal with the foibles of the more passionate fans.
^ It's not you again. Samsung was fined for bribing forum developer or ghost writer to bash their competitor, you look like one of those person more and more.
Make me think about some of the positive forum poster too. When someone questioned Anet numbers, this person out of no where post a blog about some Anet person saying the numbers went up. If it really went up Anet wont' hasitate to say it on every forum.
+1
I've been wondering about this theory for a while. Player behavior (at least what I've often observed on forums) would seem to support the idea of "they know what feeling they want from the experience, but (I) don't think they really know what will deliver that." (Yes, I used quotations to show this is from the post above.)
I think these players are kind of caught in what I call "Star Trek Holodeck Syndrome." I think they are ready to move on past what our technology can do and get that true "immersion" that probably only something like a holodeck can provide. Otherwise, I would say that no game, even one of the upcoming fabled sandboxes is going to please the "We Want 1999 Again But We Want Another Version Of It" crowd.
So more on topic: I think GW2 at least has tried to move things forward with what it did. I still enjoy the world and yes, there is a TON of lore there to add to the "living world" feeling but you have to pay attention to detail and explore. IMO.
Yes, but you can do programming and scripting with algorithms that are complex enough so it won't be obvious to the player. Even if they had had more DE scripts and made each one fire less often it would have been much better. Having the events on a short cool down timer was the laziest and most unimmersive way the could have done it, especially when a lot of them are supposed to be "heroic deeds" which wouldn't logically keep repeating like that.
None of this requires anything close to "holodeck" level AI. Hell even Rift, an older game, manages to make it so there are many different types of rifts that can spawn and it takes a very long time of staying in the same zone to see every possible one.
The core of what makes GW2 not work is that it in trying to do things in a different way instead tears apart core online game elements consistent since the time of text based online games. I was thinking about this myself the other day and the problem is GW2 is not a persistent world at all. In trying to create a game where actions matter instead you just have a game that resets events every few minutes and that each part of the game has no bearing on the other. You instead end up feeling like you are playing a series of mini games and that your character is not really important. All you really have with GW2 is a themepark that does questing in the form of events but people do them the same way the quest just hang around and wait for it to repop. On top of that it segregates pvp into basically mini games so as not to bother the pve questers which is far from being a "living" world. On top of the horrible skill system and AOE spam that just makes things worse.
There is no such thing as a "living world" and themepark existing in the same place at the same time. Even as theme parks go GW2 has a lack of interesting maps, mostly 2d feeling with lots of invis walls. The only way to do a proper event based world is to have in game GMs run events no just repop scripted monsters every couple of minutes and even that is not enough to make a game worth playing. EVE is a living world, or maybe Ryzom but this is just a very PG13 themepark.
lol @ Rift. Whenever someone mentiones Rift it pretty much invalidates and other point they were trying to make.
Go play Rift and its Rifts. It took and hour or 2 in zone to see em all. Spawned as regular as English train. Its really HARD to miss any of them while leveling, and i missed crapton of events in GW2. Probably if i went back now i would find quite i few i still missed (and i have 5 80-ies)
I still remember back in RIfts open beta when i first got to experience Rifts "Rifts". I just said "if this is the thing that is supposed to keep people playing they are in a big big big trouble". Rest is history.
Personally, it felt cluttered, and the classes felt bland to me. Shortest I have ever played anything I have bought. Its b2p, so if I ever feel like giving it another go, I can I guess.
GW2 definitely "feels" more alive than other games but personally I feel like the leveling experience is like a solo campaign.
I don't feel like other people want to party up and quest/explore together
I completely agree with you Xthos